Should 'hard' games like Dark Souls III have difficulty options?

Matt from PC Gaming Enthusiast talks Dark Souls difficulty. Should there be an easy option for this franchise?

He writes:

"When a game only offers one way to play, and that way happens to be relatively difficult, you either face that challenge or you do not."

[htogaming]

Easy simple and straight forward answer! If the game is meant to be hard than do not add an option for difficulty. Originally the idea was for Dark Souls to be difficult...

[PoSTedUP]

id buy and play darksouls if it werent so hard. honestly nowadays i dont have much time to dedicate to one hard fusturating game, i usually play on normal and easy when unwinding from work with a couple of brewskies. just wanna enjoy and get through it but this varies with different games and personal preferences; im not a great hardcore RPG player, JRPGs are a different story and i can handle most other genres on hard as well., but again, havent been choosing to do so. im sure id give it a go one day but not anytime soon. and im not asking for the devs to change their vision, im cool with what they did and support it 100%.

[TFJWM]

Have you actually played it or people telling you its hard has scared you away?

[xHeavYx]

The Souls games wouldn't be what they are if they were easy.

[Dir_en_grey]

If you keep dying the game DOES become easier, so there's already a level adjuster it's just implemented so you don't know it.
They just don't tell people that so they feel accomplished that they can finally pass an area.
Also just level up enough, even for a bad player I'm sure they can still get through.

[Elda]

I haven't played any Souls game for that reason also but after playing Bloodborne which I'm still playing (towards the end dlc),I've decided to take the plunge & purchase Dark Souls this Tuesday.Imo you just have to have patience which I really don't have with hard games but in this case you really have no choice if you want to succeed including being cautious & learn from your mistakes.

[naruga]

Many cannot understand that DSouls games are not difficult are challenging and have their own learning curves (from easy to expert but they just dont serve it you lavishly ... if you compare DSouls game with a 90's or even 00's game does nt differ at ll in difficulty . although after 2006 came the downfall of challenging gaming which is called X360 and mobile gaming giving the games completely "gnawed" up for you only to swallow

[PoSTedUP]

@TF- the latter.

@heavy- indeed and i wouldnt want them to change a thing, i like the fact that it is a naturally hard game, we need more of that.

@Dir- ah ok i see this with a lot of games too, thanks i did not know that.

elda- yeah youre right, ima give it a go when i have time. havent been interested in bloodborne yet either tho.

@nar- i agree. was playing some retro platformers the other week with my cousin, and less than a year ago i delved ito the first couple of megamans. man were they hard.

my gaming has changed immensely over the last few years. i dont find myself completing games anymore, im struggling to play catchup with the last 3 gens. im spread out on a lot of different platforms and pick up and play random games all the time seemingly for a short while. if you put my gaming patterns on paper it would look as if i have OCD with a personality disorder. i think PSnow is the s***, i love my vita and still play retrogames constantly. im thinking about buying a wiiU and i just bought a gameboy micro to play harvest moon and breath of fire on a tiny ass screen, just because. im all over the place right now and trying to play as much as i can with spending as little as i can because believe me id be pretty wealthy if i didnt spend so much money on games up until this point.

[nix]

Postup,

Give Salt and Sanctuary a try. It's 2D platformer game based on the mechanics of Soul series. It's not easy but it is worth getting your feet wet if you want to see what Soul series is like.

I've spent 35 hours so far and I'm not even half way. I'm having mild problem with the bosses.

OT: Since I've played Demon's Soul, DS 1 n 2, Bloodborne.. I know how much time and energy these games require. I also now wish they had Easy option so that i can play DS3. Alas.. I can't because i really don't have that much time to spend.

[PoSTedUP]

ah ok thanks dude ill give it a try maybe. i was always intrigued by online MP, still am. and before that was competitive playing with bots or splitscreen. also handhelds. i play RPGs like fallout bc of the world and immersion, not necessarily to complete the game or even try to. ive leaned more towards pickup and play but will be full-fledged gaming once VR drops.

[assdan]

Then you don't understand the point of the game.

[nX]

These games are not designed to be hard, they are designed to be challenging and rewarding. If you're not good or patient enough it's your loss, don't ruin the experience for the rest of us by demanding easy modes.

[k2d]

In the mean time, Diablo 3 feels like a sunday stroll on "Hard". You only have to be present minded and spam a few buttons to stay alive. Atleast where I'm at 5 hours in. The next difficulty level doesn't unlock for another two chapters.

Snooze fest.

[garrettbobbyferguson]

I'm glad you realize that not all games are for you at this moment in time.

[PoSTedUP]

@NX. im actually not demanding the devs to change. im pretty sure i made that clear two times in two above comments.... and "agree[d]" one more time to someone below who mentioned a relevant senario.

@ass. i understand the point of the game. its to be hard. i was just saying that i havent played it bc of my gaming situation atm and it being hard. trust me i can do without it (no disrespect to the devs) bc i have enough to pick up n play.

[TheCommentator]

There are way too many choices out there for gamers to complain about one game being too hard to play. I can't find the time to play half of the games I want to play these days. Also, just because a game is hard, doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed by anyone who's interested. It just means the game has a steeper learning curve than most. Dark Souls is not meant to be played like Dynasty Warriors where you're totally badass. It's meant to make every encounter feel meaningful, where your mistakes carry weight more akin to real life. It's more complex nature forces you to understand the enemy and react accordingly and is more rewarding when you get it right.

[rainslacker]

What exactly would it take away from those willing to play it at it's expected difficulty for the dev to include an easy mode?

The games are challenging, I can't deny that, nor would I find them impossible to play, but I know plenty of people who would never get that far in the game, and would simply give up pretty early.

While the game is meant to be played on difficult, it is still meant to be played, and I feel devs need to consider that if they want their games played, they do have to accommodate those that aren't into the harder game, the same way they have to accommodate to those who want what the dev feels is the proper experience.

But hey, if people feel better about being able to play a game other's can't get into because they aren't super awesome hardcore extreme gamers, then more power to you I guess.

When someone can answer to me the difference between including a brutal mode in a game being OK despite it not being the way the game was meant to be played according to the dev, but putting in an easy mode is somehow sacrilege deserving of all these elitist attitudes I've seen on the subject the past couple days, then maybe I'll understand why people are being such a**holes about an easy mode being put into a game.

[jambola]

The difference is that these games are made to be like this, it would take away from the games reputation in general, the souls games are known for being hard, none of the games with "brutal mode" are as well known for being hard because it is not the standard in the game.

what exactly do you mean by "despite it not being the way the game was meant to be played" ?

[rainslacker]

So it takes away the perception that it's a hard game? So what? What does that take away from the actual game?

Sounds more like you just want to be able to say you completed it without having a bunch of other people being able to say the same thing.

There is nothing that can't be put into an easy mode that would effect the game play or people's perception of the normal way to play it. It'd just be easier for those that want to play it and experience it, but don't want to spend hours on end running back from some spawn point just to die over and over again.

Doesn't have to be made one button kills all, just make it more enjoyable for more people, and you lose nothing if you play it the way you always have.

You know what adding in a Brutal mode does? It adds something to the game. Easy mode in this case would simply add more to the game...and you could decide to use it or not.

[jambola]

Really? what does making a notoriously difficult game easy take away from the game?
It takes away what it's know for, it takes away what the developers were going for in these games,

"Sounds more like you just want to be able to say you completed it without having a bunch of other people being able to say the same thing."

Sounds like a bitter lazy argument to me
i never finished one of these games except demon souls, i don't think most people are under the impression that they are in a tiny minority when they beat the games.

"There is nothing that can't be put into an easy mode that would effect the game play or people's perception of the normal way to play it"

can you tell me a game that is famously difficult that has multiple difficulty options? there are probably many that are on par with the souls games or even harder when on the highest difficulty, but that is not the one difficulty most people experience so it's not the same thing.

"You know what adding in a Brutal mode does? It adds something to the game" yeah, in other games it can add plenty, but it's completely different in a series where the delopers clearly want to create a certain experience, and from what i can see, it's working quite well for them

[rainslacker]

"It takes away what it's know for, it takes away what the developers were going for in these games"

How so? If they leave the hard game intact, it only adds to the game for others to enjoy. Nothing is lost for others. Easy mode of a challenging game can still be challenging for someone who isn't into as much into gaming.

"i never finished one of these games except demon souls,"

Was that because it was too hard or because you got bored or frustrated with the harder mechanics? Wouldn't an easier mode help you finish the game and at least be able to see the content that was there?

What's worse? A lesser experience, or no experience at all?

"i don't think most people are under the impression that they are in a tiny minority when they beat the games"

I'd beg to differ. Many people take great pride that they completed the games. Same way people take pride over beating a brutal or crushing mode, because sometime those seem impossible, despite being in a game which is relatively mainstream and easy to complete otherwise.

"can you tell me a game that is famously difficult that has multiple difficulty options?"

Nope. But if the game is famous for being difficult, then what else is there to it? Seems that's a bigger selling point for some than whether it's fun. Something that lets me experience the game without those hours of frustration on a single part are more enjoyable to me. That's just my take on it, and I don't feel satisfaction spending hours on a single part, I feel more frustrated that I'm likely to spend hours on another part.

"there are probably many that are on par .... most people experience so it's not the same thing. "

Why isn't it the same thing? The normal mode of souls games, and the easy mode aren't going to be experienced by the same people.

That still doesn't really say what is taken away from the player by adding an easy mode, as nothing is actually taken away for those that want to play it normally.

"in other games it can add plenty, .... and from what i can see, it's working quite well for them"

That's fair enough on the game design side, and I wouldn't even dispute that the developer can do whatever they want.

However, my question is, to you, and many others is what exactly does adding an easy mode remove from the game for them...the player themselves? That's the question which I can't find a satisfactory answer to.

I could understand the upset if they made the whole game for everyone more mainstream, and made the harder difficulty something locked behind having to play a normal mode first(or something), or if they removed it all together. However, at no point can I really see anyone give any actual reason why an easy mode would ruin the regular game for them, or why an easy mode would somehow actually change the game mechanics to the point where it would make the game worse for them...or why it would change them at all.

Others say it's about the experience, and that's fair, but I don't see why their experience is taken away, or why a dev would feel that someone shouldn't enjoy their game despite not being the experience they insist on delivering.

As far as I see it, it's just a game mode which they can ignore, while others can experience the game. If the dev don't want people to experience the game because they want it super hardcore, that's fine, but every argument I've seen against it seems more like pride being endangered if somehow the game becomes more accessible.

[LostDjinn]

Slacker...the thing is that all souls games (and bloodborne) rely on a level playing field. At any point you can be invaded or invade others. That's the point. The game is hard but being invaded can have you confronting an enemy harder than any NPC or in game enemy.

If you were to add an easy mode how would you handle MP? Start segregating players by setting? Buff easy mode players? I mean how is it that you'd change the game without changing the game? Can you see how it get complicated? The only way it works is if everybody has the same chance as anybody else.

[rainslacker]

Seems like segregating players is the rational thing to do. Not complicated, fighting games use a ranking system for some types of matches which is much more involved with no problem.

So again, nothing changes.

Everyone would have the same chance to play either mode they prefer. Easy players could be invaded by other easy players, normal/hard could be invaded by other people who prefer to play that way.

I see too many people making things more complicated to try and make it seem like an easy mode would destroy the game for them and everyone else, but I still haven't seen anyone really be able to give me a valid reason why it would, or how it would ruin their game personally.

The only valid argument I've seen is that the devs don't want to make the game that way, in which case, that's fair, and entirely on them and their publisher, as they aren't obligated to do such a thing. But doesn't mean people aren't allow to ask for such things so long as they can accept no for an answer.

[joab777]

The answer is and always will be...NOOOO!

There's plenty to play out there. The difficulty is at the core of what makes a Souls game. If people just wanna experience it, well, buck up, b/c ya cant experience it without the difficulty.

Too many people today want the easy route. Satisfaction, which is the feeling that DS creates, is earned from overcoming.

[shadowraiserx]

I buy Bloodborne first two days I was screaming at the screen but when I get it I love it.I buy Dark souls 2 I love this games in my opinion no, let the user suffer and grow with game.

[nitus10]

Actually the Souls series and Bloodborne are set to "easy" difficulty, it is only until after you beat the game that you are given the chance to play the game on harder difficulties. :-)

[LaWiiG]

Every game has a difficulty though.

[Herbalistic]

Nope,The Souls franchise is built for a certain crowd.There's enough easy and hand holding games available for others to enjoy.

[LaWiiG]

So why does it get to deviate from all the other games out there? I mean, even the hardest platformers have difficulty settings. It shouldn't take away from the experience, maybe it does.

[jambola]

If it takes away from the experience for you then it's obviusly not for you.

"So why does it get to deviate from all the other games out there?"

Because there's not a set of laws that develepers have to follow, anyone is allowed to make games the way they want.

They clearly made it to be a difficult game, every one of them, many games are difficult on higher difficulties but they don't have the same reputation of being hard

[PhucSeeker]

The game's difficulty is tied tightly to the story/atmosphere, the experience and the technical side (pvp,coop).

Being on your toes, treading carefully through small/dark corridors, feeling hopeless as summon die too early leaving you facing a super hard boss alone, your hands start to sweat, you stand up, heart pounding while your carefully dodging his attacks, you swing the sword again and the boss die, now you can finally sit down and calm yourself.

That was me fighting OnS. I don't think i can have all that with an easier difficulty.

[ziggurcat]

lawiig:

you can summon help if you're having trouble. it makes it way easier when you have two other people helping you out, and it's precisely why there's no difficulty setting required.

or you can just "git gud", and learn the patterns.

[Baka-akaB]

It's not true in practice . Like it or not , with an easy mode in mind , the design of a game is different . Especially when most game just bump up the stats of foes and/ohe amount of spawns , rather than designing different and separate experiences .

In games like the Souls series , the game actually becomes easy when you do know perfectly enemy pattern and how to deal with them . If you add an easy mode for such an experience , it will potentially be even worse and as easy in less difficult mode , than impossibe to fail games like assassin creed . And the difficult/normal mode we know will suffer in design from the changes and concessions they'd make to have a better easy mode .

Dark souls/demon'souls/Blodborn are a completely different beast in game design . It doesnt necessarily reward good reflexes , nor planning ... it's a moody experience that forces you to learn how your opponent behave ... there is hardly a difficulty sliding scale for that , unless you wanna ruin the experience . That's why it gotta follow another path than other games , not for the sake of pseudo elitism

[nitus10]

Ok I am going to try to answer this in a reasonable way.

The Souls series and Bloodborne all have an on-line component. Do you honestly think that if you had an easy difficulty that players who are quite competent in playing the harder difficulties to slaughter other players in PvP?

"Wait", I hear people say "We would have separate servers or a method of distinction between seasoned players and players playing on easy".

Sounds easy doesn't it. Well lets assume for one minute I am a seasoned PvP master (I am not of course), what's to stop me from playing on easy and then attacking all players on easy? It would be like giving the wolf the keys to the hen house.

The only way around the above scenario is not to have an on-line component for players who want to play on easy. Of course if you do eventually decide to play on "normal" mode then you start from scratch.

[PoSTedUP]

i agree 100%.

[Zarock]

How does a difficulty setting affect the game!!?
It's an option If you want a challenge then play on hard.
Having a difficulty settings would help sell more copies of the game which Is always good.

[jambola]

Many people like to play a game that's just hard, not hard only because the difficulty setting is turned up

[Zarock]

That's basically the same thing. It's like Xbox one fans crying not to release quantum break on PC because It's made for the Xbox. That's just selfish and stupid from a business perspective.

[jambola]

no, it's nothing like that
it might be the same thing to you, if people want easier games there's plenty out there, there's many games that are incredibly easy by default, and many that are hard, nothing wrong with that

[rainslacker]

I don't want harder games, so brutal mode should also be removed from games, and all games should just be one base level according to whatever the dev feels is appropriate.

Easy mode doesn't take away from the game mechanics. It may take away some of the atmosphere the dev is going for, but if people are just going to be frustrated over the mechanics and quit because of them, then what good is the atmosphere to them?

Devs want people to play their games, and while I understand these games are designed at their core to cater to a specific group of gamers, changing a difficulty setting won't affect them. There is nothing that states that an easy mode would simply be a cake walk, and for some gamers could provide the same challenge and intensity as the normal version, because those people aren't going to spend the same time learning the game, but could still lose to enemies due to still needing to. It's no different than when we used to get frustrated over falling in a hole in a platformer. We knew how to play the game, but it was still hard, and difficulty is subjective.

[PhucSeeker]

Because most of the guy at fromsoft are sadistic artists who put their games and visions above business and sale.

[ziggurcat]

"How does a difficulty setting affect the game!!?"

it compromises the vision of the game.

[Testfire]

The series became popular because of its challenge for hardcore gamers. If that's changed, you not only piss off your original fan base, but you ruin the pace and feel of the game.

Haven't we had enough once great franchises ruined by dumbing them down for the casuals? Sales aren't everything, maintaining the identity of a franchise is more important.

[nyctophilia13]

If this is the way the game creators want it, and are succeeding tremendously from both a financial and artistic standpoint, why would you ask them to change it?

I'm so glad a game like Bloodborne doesn't have a difficulty option. It forced me to challenge myself and I appreciate that as a gamer raised on the likes of Castlevania, Metroid, Megaman etc.

These Souls games are for hardcore gamers. If you can't hang with a Dark Souls game, then its not meant for you. What's really unfair is to not even TRY playing one just because it lacks a difficulty setting.

[rainslacker]

I don't think anyone should really ask them to change it. Maybe request it to show that there is interest in it....a form of feedback.

But at the same time, the amount of elitist attitudes I see over the very idea of it is absolutely laughable. Some people really think it would ruin their own experience, because apparently they feel that making it easier in one mode will result in it being made into a mainstream game.

however, it doesn't have to be that way, and I think too many people just want to feel superior because they are in a special club which manages to get through the game itself.

If someone manages to get through an easier mode in the game, it may even entice them to try it on a harder level. How many of us start a game on normal, only to boost it up to hard halfway through, or for a 2nd playthrough after we've gotten use to the mechanics and know what to expect?

[Chaos_Order]

Mere options, even those that you don't plan on using, can potentially be detrimental to your experience. If you could tone down the difficulty at the drop of a hat then the tension would be gone.

I go into more detail here: https://youtu.be/9wYGO7svse...

Also, I find the "it'll make more money" argument to be utterly ludicrous. The amount of money a game makes or the number of people it appeals to has no bearing on the quality whatsoever. Flappy Bird appeals to more people than Ocarina of Time. Would someone like to argue how Flappy Bird is better?

[Baka-akaB]

again it's a learning by trial and pattern game , you bring differences in difficulties , it breaks the game's design balance , and begs for something different .
The game is actually easy once you know those pattern by hearts , you remove the only difficulty threshold , which is the learning curve , you end up with nothing and a boring game , unless drastic change to it are made , that would essentially turn it into other action rpgs

[ZombieGamerMan]

Ah no them not wanting Quantum Break on PC is because they want to know that the money spent on the damn thing was for it to be an overweight paperweight ( a sentiment MS also believes in with the porting of the game)

Personally I say fuck trying to appeal to as many people as possible or to cater to people, the Souls series gained it's popularity based on how challenging the game is and to go and just add an easy mode defeats the purpose of it. Either get good at the game or go play something that does cater your personal preferences.

[Ozmoses]

Isn't there a difficulty option already called "Buy The Game" or "Don't Buy The Game"

You should know by now if games like these are games you're interested in. If you can't handle the pressure of death/trial and error then just move on to something you can handle.

We have Demon Souls, Dark Souls I, II and III, and Bloodborne... I think it's a little too late to be bringing in the "difficulty settings" argument.

I mean obviously people like the games the way they are in their current form or they wouldn't be making a new one every few years.

[LaWiiG]

They should just change the franchise then. Doing the same thing over and over again becomes redundant. I'm sure they've lost players.

[Ozmoses]

but each game is different and has more depth than the previous...

It's nothing like COD or BF where they just change meaningless shit and drop a game every year.

franchises like those are the ones that need the overhauls...

this is simply a standard of difficulty.... no different than GHOSTS N GOBLINS on Original NES for example...

just because a game is hard for some people doesn't mean anything is wrong with it...

there is a huge following and many many many people find the challenge to be some of the most thrilling parts of gaming that exist nowadays...

hell some people don't even find the games difficult... I mean you got people out there beating Dark Souls with Donkey Kong drums, Guitar Hero Guitars, etc, etc, etc....

It's trial and error... Enemy/Area memorization, upgrading gear/leveling up...

after a point the difficulty becomes kind of mute because you've actually "learned how to play the game"

it's kind of like any game you know..... it has what they call a "learning curve"

It's just nowadays most gamers are entitled to a big ol' "TUTORIAL" section

[jambola]

Why would they change franchise if this one is doing well and the like doing it?
How about everyone who doesn't like the difficulty can change to a different franchise?

[uth11]

If anything the Souls fanbase seems to be growing.

[sullynathan]

seeing as how each new souls game has outsold the last, I'll say they've gained players.

[NovusTerminus]

I'd say sure, I won't use it, but at the same time everyone saying "No, it's supposed to be hard!" has to understand this would let you start on NG+ whatever as a level one character, so there is some extra challenge for them as well.

[AnotherProGamer]

Yes, Dark Souls difficulty setting should be hard, very hard, and extremely hard

[Tetsujin]

Basically that's Easy, Normal, and Hard, just worded differently.

OT

I say add difficulty because it can introduce people new to that genre of game to see if it's a series for them. Other people may not have the time/patience to play for long time frames, so a difficulty would help balance time/fun factor. I played Demon Souls and liked it for what it was. Would I welcome a difficulty option? Yes. Will I knock someone for making a game easier for various reasons? No.

[jambola]

"I say add difficulty because it can introduce people new to that genre of game to see if it's a series for them. Other people may not have the time/patience to play for long time frames" well if they don't have the patience then it clearly isn't a series for them

[KimikoGaming]

Dark Souls should definitely have an easy mode. But it should be unlocked after you beat the game...

Oh wait, hello NG+

[ziggurcat]

easy mode = summon help.

[nitus10]

If you want to make any of the Souls and Bloodborne game easier then you could always level up, buff or replace your weapons and armour. As you have mentioned you can always summon help.

Of course if you are on-line you may attract PvP from more experienced players, but that is the chance you take. In fact even if the games had an easy mode what is stopping seasoned players from playing that just to PvP newbies? Oh the humanity! 😉

[NegativeCreepWA]

The game is designed with a progressive difficulty and shouldn't be messed with. Besides with the way coop and multiplayer works, you would have to split a already small community or ruin the balance by letting people who easily obtained items, play those who earned them.

Not every game needs a difficultly, if you want to play it learn to play it like the rest of us have.

[OpenGL]

How many topics are we going to have this issue? If the game is too hard for you, don't play it. There are tons of games on PS4 and Xbox One that offer easy modes for people unwilling to learn new gameplay mechanics.

[LaWiiG]

Games should be for everyone to enjoy. Why is dark souls so special then. No one has managed to explain that.

[OpenGL]

Why should games be for everyone to enjoy? What other art form is made to cater to all tastes?

[Liqu1d]

"Games should be for everyone to enjoy"

No, that's an impossible goal. People enjoy different games and that's why having a diverse selection of games. From Software are targeting a niche market with the Souls franchise and they are dominanting that market.

If they wanted it to have an easy mode then it would, but we've hard 4 Souls games + Bloodborne which don't have an easy mode so clearly they aren't interested in complaints about difficulty. There are already ways to reduce the difficulty by summoning or over-levelling. If you don't want to or can't put in the time or effort to play the game then go play something else.

[jambola]

What do you mean why is dark souls so special? i don't think people are saying it's the only game that should be allowed to do this, nobody here said anything lie that

[Baka-akaB]

making solely universally reaching games begets boring and generic stuff .

And the game is actually welcoming for anyone willing to learn it . It does not require any special skills and talent (or i'd probably just fail) ... just patience and observation .

[uth11]

Designer gets to chose what goes into the game, not the player.

If they want to make a hard game, it's their right to do so.

[Chaos_Order]

"Games should be for everyone to play."

Then I guess all games are just terrible then. People who don't like gore can't play Mortal Kombat. People who don't have an internet connection can't play MMOs. People who are easily scared can't play horror games. People with poor rhythm can't play music games. People who are deaf can't play FNAF4. People who suffer from motion sickness can't play a lot of 3D games. People who are put off by 'kiddie' graphics can't play Mario or Ratchet and Clank. Little kids can't play GTA. And there are some people who find it difficult to even hold a controller. Man, games are just horrible, aren't they?

No game should ever be made for everyone because we all have different preferences. There are tons of games that I don't like, but I wouldn't dare insist on them being changed to suit me.

[Antifan]

Not everyone can be a rocket scientist, can they? Maybe we should dumb down the field of rocket science so everyone can be one?

[Master-H]

Short answer : no.

[LaWiiG]

But the long answer...yes?

[Liqu1d]

Long answer is still no.

[Master-H]

Long answer: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooo

[Yui_Suzumiya]

Yes.. then I'd actually consider playing this epic series

[LaWiiG]

Just like the Star Fox 0 argument for the easy mode. The game can include it, doesn't mean you have to use it.

[BiggerBoss]

Orrrr the game could not include it, doesn't mean you have to play it.

[VJGenova]

Should easy games like shadow of mordor have a difficulty option?

[SatanicEyeJesus]

People that say that Dark Souls is difficult never played the goo'old NES games.

[jambola]

No, that's wrong, and honestly just plain silly

[LaWiiG]

NES platformers were probably the most difficult. Ninja Turtles being one of them.

[VJGenova]

Ninja Turtles wasn't easy, but calling it the most difficult is just blasphemy. The following games are harder, starting with the hardest:

1. Ghost and Goblins
2. Battletoads
3. Ghostbusters
4. Ninja Gaiden
5. Mike Tyson's Punchout

I've beaten TMNT a few times, but only Punchout once. The other 4, even with Game Genie or save states, were still ridiculously difficult.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

No!!!

No!

NnnnnnnO!

[Oreic]

No. /discussion

[LaWiiG]

/r/discussion? XD

[SweatyFlorida]

If the developers don't want to to keep their vision or serve a crowd they specifically targeted, they don't have to. The industry seriously suffers from catering to whiners or casuals.

Should From include Microtransactions to help players get a boost of souls so they can get weapons or upgrade them easily JUST BECAUSE other games have such features? Should they make the next game free to play just because they want to reach every potential fan as possible? Should they make a difficulty option just for people who need hand holding have their hands held and lose out on the rewarding feeling the game innately gives BECAUSE it doesn't have a difficulty option??? The answer to all these questions is "No.". The point of the game is to overcome the difficulty. That's the niche. The feeling of hopelessness and darkness throughout the game yet a no-name warrior goes through hell as he/she fights their way from the shadows and fire ever struggling but somehow rises to the occasion and overcomes the strife. That's the whole point to the game and to have that feeling, FAIRLY, for all players, there must NOT be a difficulty option. Isn't that what people were complaining about PS4K? That they wanted the "same experience" as their friends when they buy consoles?

[SlightlyRetarted]

It's hard because it was made challenging from the start. Whole Souls game design revolves around it. Why can't we just have ONE AAA-game that is made challenging? And don't tell me that other games have hard mode. Hard modes are usually poorly made, because they are not designed that way. They just add enemy damage and include stupid stuff like a constant enemy grenade spam or rocket launcher enemies everywhere etc.

[Chaos_Order]

Totally agree, especially with hard modes of other games. Only rarely are they actually well balanced, making you perfect your tactics. Most simply require you to take advantages of powerful spamming techniques, pure dumb luck or fooling the game mechanics in your favour. Hard =/= challenging.

[nitus10]

I have played the King's Field games, Eternal Ring as well as the Souls series and Bloodborne and From Software has never given an initial difficulty setting for any of those games and IMHO they are just so much better for this.

All of the games I have mentioned take over 30 plus hours to play (speed runs exempted) and were never designed for casual gamers unless they are willing to allocate their time to play the game.

[Deathdeliverer]

It should have a easy mode that you unlock after you beat the original mode.

[ziggurcat]

no.

[Realms]

The core audience doesn't care about the difficulty these casual ass mofo's need to move on and stop crying not every game is for you talk about self entitlement.

[Realms]

One person disagreed he must suck at the game.LOL

[LaWiiG]

Sorry @zigg I tried to like and I disliked instead.

[Kallisti]

The difficulty of the Souls series is what makes them unique/stand apart from most games these days. Take that out and you're taking the soul out of Demon's/Dark Souls. So short answer, NO!

[Max-Zorin]

If they add a difficulty setting, I hope they don't get all kinds of death threats.

[VJGenova]

Can't imagine they would add a difficulty setting, other than, "even harder," so "git gud."

[Kurdtliekoben]

Only after u died like......a 1000 times??

[nitus10]

Well it took me over thirty tries before I finally beat Father Gascoigne although I did mange to take out Vicar Amelia on the second try, the Witches on the fifth try and the Blood-Starved Beast on the first try. There is something to be said for levelling up and buffing your weapons.

Of course there is nothing worse than getting over confident or rushing. Basically think before you act but don't wait to long.

[Pledius]

Nope.

It wouldn't be called "hard" game if it has easy mode

[EmperorDalek]

Sure if you call it little bitch mode. No trophies or online, and you don't get to see the ending. And every enemy has to be screaming NOOB

[DOOMZ]

Yep, that would be awesome!!!

[spoonard]

Since Dark Souls doesn't have a difficulty option, it's difficulty is by default 'normal'.

There is no standard in video fames for difficulty settings. This is a stupid argument to me. If you can't hack it in a souls game, then there are plenty of other games to play. Sorry, not every kid gets a trophy just for showing up.

[sullynathan]

The article has a misconception that you can only play Souls 3 one way, you can play it in a lot of different ways.

While I understand where the writer is coming from, there is still no reason for the devs to implement difficulty options because they don't have to and their series still became very successful, mainstream and sold well on a smaller budget.
Its also a design choice from the developers and since Dark Souls 2, the devs have introduced more ways for the player to make the games much easier by allowing the player to summon up to 6 npcs and humans to help in a boss fight.

Yes, Ninja Gaiden is hard and is more difficult than Souls games depending on the difficulty but this doesn't meant that Dark Souls should have difficulty options.

[SkolarVisari]

The issue for me isn't whether or not there should, or shouldn't be difficulty settings. It is the selfish insistence that people who do want such a thing will ruin the game for other people when there are any number of games that are harder and require greater skill than Souls games that have not been affected negatively by having difficulty modes. It is the same kind of idiocy that leads to virtually all southpaw controller layouts being broken. And heaven forbid if you point out this blatantly obvious fact. You will get the same kinds of "Git Gud" arguments.

[Baka-akaB]

It's not about elitism , at least not for everyone . Like i said before , i don't consider myself such a skilled gamer , but i thrived within the game by learning its principle and basically every step of the game by heart .

And some of us just don't agree with your comparison . Yes there are way harder games , that do propose the choice (some very cheap still) , but their design and core concepts aren't usually the same than the souls' . And not in a way that would just allow to scale down and up things down via modes while keeping the same game and spirit imo .

[SkolarVisari]

The witcher says hi.

A difficulty setting is a purely engineering concern, with respect to whether or not it exists. People's opinions about whether or not the option should exist are irrelevant. I happen to be of the opinion that these games do not need difficulty settings. However, I fully comprehend that a setting would in no way impact how I choose to enjoy the game. My argument isn't based on my opinion of how I like to play these games. It is based on the fact that something could be implemented to address complaints that would in no way interfere with my or anyone else's use of the software.

Again this is not like DMC vs. DmC, or even debates about whether some game should or should not have multiplayer added into it. In light of these facts where does anyone get off telling people that the software isn't for them, and demanding that everyone not only play a game the same way as them but also play it for the same reasons?

Would a mode where people could turn off leveling impact people that don't want to use it?

[sullynathan]

@Skolar no witcher game is more difficult than any souls games. Don't ever bring up Witcher in a Souls game comparison, that series has atrocious gameplay compared to souls.

[Baka-akaB]

And again you comparing with something that doesnt remotely apply the same way . A new difficulty setting doesnt change the designs and gameplay of the witcher , it could and probably would for Dark souls for the reasons already brought up , and also because well by default the game is online .

You bring up wishes and feelings about how universal a game should be ..but practically speaking , how do you design an easier version of a level where every 10 meters there is a mortal trap , like a bottomless pit , a rolling boulder activated by a switch , a flamthrower etc without actually changeing the nature of said level ?

Making enemies weaker via stats tweaks is another of your expected answer i guess ? It's useless . Why ? Because usually even with a high level char , if not careful , the base and early foes could prove difficult to you and lead you to death with their behavior and even makes you walk into traps as you avoid them . What's the solution then ? Changeing the AI , making them less efficient in their behavior and pattern ? Well it change completely the way they laid traps and the balance of rooms then , and the whole experience .

I don't know everything , i'm not the best designer around , i just truly can't picture a scenario where your ideals about difficulty works in a way that does not change the game . And i haven't seen any of the champion of the "difficulty settings choice" propose something that works within the game , yet

[Warshade]

I just don't enjoy the Souls version of storytelling. If it had a decent narrative that hooked me I could look past any difficulty but the way its currently done does not appeal to me. Thats fine it doesn't have to be a game everyone likes. Its a niche game like any other RPG.

[DarXyde]

Final Fantasy isn't niche. Persona is not exactly traditional definition of niche either. Fallout and Oblivion, also RPGs and not niche.

And I actually love the Souls series' way of storytelling. It's more genuine. You're not force-fed the story at all. You get the basics so you understand what you're doing, then the worlds have NPCs that you encounter or save and interact with them to learn who they like/dislike, how your actions effects their roles (take freeing Lautrec for example) and then you have to read the item descriptions to learn more about the world. It really is the thinking person's lore.

[Warshade]

I am not saying there is anything wrong with it, It's just not for me. It really is a very niche game though.

[DarXyde]

Didn't say it wasn't. Just saying you're painting RPGs with a broad stroke.

And I can understand it not being for everyone. I personally enjoy how exposition is there if you care. Really extends the life of the games for me.

[sullynathan]

You don't need a story to play a video game.

[Warshade]

Nope but Dark Souls just does not do it for me.

[Dyldog69]

No difficulty adjustment option is anti consumer. Let gamers rightfully decide for themselves. From software fan boys want to feel special. They think they're so right because the difficulty is adjusted to hard for them. Quit complaining and put the game on hard and quit trippin on people who want to play a game which to them has a reasonable difficulty like medium or easy. The hard only setting approach reaks of exclusiveness and excludes many gamers from great games. Anti consumer like I previously stated. Now, this is clearly only my opinion. To my credit I've played D.S., D.S.1, and Bloodborne extensively

[DarXyde]

It's not adjusted to hard though. That's what New Game + is for...and so on. The base difficulty is not a normal, if you ask me. The games in general are hard. And by the way, Dark Souls II sort of had a way to adjust difficulty by joining certain covenants.

Games auto-save now and I think the Souls series has done a great job of taking us back to the era where beating games was actually impressive. We have plenty of save points today that didn't exist back then. No, you had to get insanely good and beat many of those games in a single sitting. Obviously, that's impractical now and the Souls games do save, but the difficulty takes you back to the days when games were legitimately hard. I can't speak for everyone, but if those games were easier, I definitely wouldn't like them nearly as much. I'm drawn to the challenge and always play my games on the hardest difficulty setting the first time around. Extends the life of games and forces me to be analytical. I hate mindless gaming and the difficulty of the Souls series does help set it apart from those types of games.

[DarXyde]

I think difficulty options would be hard to pull off with the New Game + structure they have in place. Besides, what if it's like past games where level is irrelevant if you're on a specific playthrough?

The idea behind these games is rewarding gameplay. If you could just throw it on easy, I feel like it defeats the absolute scale of the games. Some of the boss fights just stick with you because they're so hard. And it's great to know that other people went through the same thing. The fact that the games only get harder with New Game + probably says a lot about the game's vision. It's not about being hard for the sake of it. It's about punishing carelessness, forcing you to improve. Trying harder and adapting, using new strategies, etc. And when you do come out on top, it's really rewarding.

I get it, not everyone wants that and I don't have to play it on other difficulties, but you can pick a class that handicaps you or a build that you'd be terrible with. The difficulty is pretty much set in stone and varies by build and level, but there's enough there to adjust it yourself. Want an easier time? Spend more time leveling up and being an all-around build. Want to step it up? Rely on parrying and level up less. These games take time and patience, so I'd say you either play the game as is and struggle through, spend your time over leveling, or stay under leveled and struggle. Regardless, you're spending a lot of time with these games.

[SkolarVisari]

Just restrict NG+ to the same difficulty setting. This is not a hard technical problem; unlike say ensuring the game has rock solid framerates. (I have heard that the latest patch fixes lots of these issues. Man, I can't wait for the PC version to unlock for me. This weekend is soooo long T_T.)

[DarXyde]

But then the game doesn't get any harder and that's lame. You already know you can beat them because they don't improve and you've still got your soul level. I'd say either treat easy mode as New Game "minus", beat it to unlock New Game, then again for New Game Plus...or don't offer New Game Plus for an easy mode. Anyway, does it matter? Isn't this the last Dark Souls? Might get a sequel to Demon's Souls and Bloodborne, but difficulty is what gets people talking about these games. All of the reviews and ads for Demon's Souls said things like, "this game will chew you up and spit you out". It makes you curious. I feel like that type of hype dies very fast if you throw in an official easy mode. I personally think advertising works much better the way it is now.

[tweet75]

no because it is easy through practice. You have to play a lot learn enemy patterns etc. explore. It forces you to play the game. Once you learn and discover things in the game through trial and error the game gets easier and that's part of the charm of the game.

[tanukisuit]

Perhaps, what they can do to appease everyone is this. In DMC 1 (the very first one on PS2) - you had to die something like 3 times total to unlock easy mode. That way, easy mode isn't just given out, but at the same time it gives newbies an opportunity to try before they pout about it...

[Tdmd]

NoooOooooOOOoooooOOooooOoooooo ! Casuals should stop being such lazy spoiled whiners and learn the ins and outs of the hard games they want to play.

[Josuey]

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD: NOOOOOOOOOOO!!! GET GUUD OR DONT PLAY

[Hotabang]

should repeat articles, like this one, be allowed on n4g?

[Takwin]

This is the easiest question ever, and it's getting asked more and more.

YES IT SHOULD HAVE AND EASY MODE.

THOSE PEOPLE ONLY GET TO PLAY SINGLE PLAYER, AND THE TROPHIES/ACHIEVEMENTS ARE DIFFERENT.

THIS WILL NOT AFFECT ANYONE IN THE WORLD NEGATIVELY.

[Dowie]

As a veteran of the soulsborne series I can surprisingly say yes.

The thing about these games are that they've been marketed as hard and that's why people think they love them. The thing is the series is so much more outside of that difficulty. It has great lore, combat, scenery, enemies, bosses, explorations, variety...its just such an amazing series and its a shame that all EVERYONE focuses on is the difficulty!

Take away the difficulty and it would still be a stellar series. The exploration, crafting and fun boss fights would still exist but more people would be able to enjoy them because they wouldn't be put off by the hard difficulty.

Please remember everyone plays for different reasons. Some people do really like a challenge and i'm one of those people so I would stick with classic difficulty but there are others who play games to unwind and relax so they could pop it down to casual mode. If you're like me this wouldn't negatively effect you at all. The same way I play halo on legendary and my friends play on easy. We still get to talk about the game but enjoy it in our own ways.

[Dowie]

Casual mode literally would just be nerfed enemies/bosses with boosted stats and more souls gained from kills. People could even use this mode to get to endgame pvp quicker when thats all they want anyways.

[OutcastMosquito]

Why is this even a question? Of course it should have an easy mode. If it's optional to play on whatever difficulty you want where's the problem in that? Oh right, the gaming community is just a bunch of cry babies that will find problems with everything. It doesn't ruin the game people!

[Mr_Writer85]

Why?

The whole point of the game is that gamers have to be tactical. The core design of the game is not a hack n slash game which is exactly what it will become if it was to change.

And your second statement makes no sense. The gaming community applaud the Souls series for not bowing to the casuals. So they are not actually complaining.

The souls games are not difficult due to being a poor game, it's difficult because you learn by dying. It takes time to learn the game, find which weapon suites you, learning areas and enemy attack patterns.

If you don't try to rush and take your time you will progress. Sure you will get stuck, maybe even to the point it annoys you but if you can't handle that then though luck.

That fact people think that every game they like the look of should be played is an entitled stance and is much more immature stance then simply not wanting a developer to change their design of a game to suite the masses.

Why should other peoples enjoyment have to be compromised just because someone like the graphics of a game but not the gameplay?

[Aloren]

It doesn't have to compromise your enjoyment. Look at bayonetta and its ultra easy mode. It didn't stop the game from being challenging and not casual at all.

[Mr_Writer85]

But that's a hack and slash game.

The souls games are not hack n slash.

The foes in Souls games don't just increase with HP and do more damage as you progress they have different behaviours, different tactics.

Bayonetta does none of that all it does is make the AI dumber and easy to kill.

To change that in Souls games is to change EVERYTHING in Souls games.

How can you not get this? It's an easy concept to grasp.

If someone really wants to play souls games for the gameplay then they don't want an easy game.

The only people who want an easy Souls games are graphics whores or bandwagon jumpers who want to pretend they are part of the next big craze but are to lazy to put up with the game.

Don't like games that are a challenge? Souls games aren't for you, why can't those who DO not have a series to call their own? Why do casuals have to have everything dumbed down for them?

There are plenty of games that let them scale the difficulty, either learn to play Souls or move on.

[Aloren]

You make it look like a cult.

Souls are just games, I'm pretty sure people at from software would know how to adapt the game without changing how it plays for hardcore fans.... I mean just making the main character more resistant or with a slow regen or even gaining more souls when you kill ennemies in easy mode would already make the game much easier and wouldn't change your own experience a bit in "normal" mode.

[Mr_Writer85]

Exactly it's just a game.

So why does it need to be changed?

You haven't actually given me one valid reason. "Because others might want to play it " is the only reason I hear, but why do they want to play it if it's too hard for them?

That's like me saying I think Star Wars is better than Star Trek so I want Star Trek to add Lightsabers, Jedi and the millennium falcon to its latest movie so I can go watch it.

That is how stupid anyone asking for an easy mode in a souls game sounds.

[Aloren]

You're not making any sense. You may think other games are too easy, yet you have the possibility to play them in much harder difficulties. And you'd probably complain if you couldn't.

Denying others the same possibility is a lot more stupid than asking for an easy mode in a game that seems too hard.

Also your starwars startrek comparison has to be the worst analogy I've ever had the opportunity to read here on N4G. That's quite an achievement. My reasons were a lot more valid than yours :D

[Mr_Writer85]

You say it's a bad analogy but can't say why?

Lolz that's one of the poorest excuse for a counter argument I have ever heard.

You keep on crying that a game is too hard for you and I will go and enjoy a challenge by playing Dark Souls :)

[Aloren]

I don't need to say why it's a bad analogy, it just doesn't make sense to compare a few tweaks in a game to an switch of content between 2 IPs because one is "better" than the other one. It's so completely unrelated that it doesn't need any explaination. You could use that analogy if I had asked to add Mario mushrooms in the game...

Also, I never said anything was better or worse, i just said it's only logical to offer an easy mode to those who want it since you get to play easy games in hard mode, especially since, no matter what your delusions about Souls games are, it wouldn't be that hard to add a lower difficulty level.
Secondly, I never said Dark Souls was too hard for me or that you shouldn't enjoy a challenge. And frankly, it's unrelated.

You just need to learn to read what's being said to you instead of just plugging your heads and closing your eyes while screaming nooo nooo nooo like a 4yo.

[Mr_Writer85]

Short answer: No

Long answer: Nope

[jeromeface]

No, if you don't like the challenge behind the souls series, just don't buy the souls series. It's pretty simple. I don't like girlish games, so I don't buy girlish games. It's not a difficult concept. I don't want From software having to devote dev team time and resources to having to implement and balance EZ mode. I wouldn't be opposed however to them releasing a completely different game that perhaps isn't as hard and is more of soft entry point for those looking to get into the souls series.

[Aloren]

Of course they should ! How does it affect you if other people get a chance to enjoy the game ?

After all, some gamers get to complain/brag that in many games they need to increase the difficulty level to feel like there's a challenge even when they game is "not meant to be hard", so why shouldn't others get a chance to play hard games on easy mode just cause it's not meant to be easy ?

[SkolarVisari]

@Baka-akaB "You bring up wishes and feelings about how universal a game should be ..but practically speaking , how do you design an easier version of a level where every 10 meters there is a mortal trap , like a bottomless pit , a rolling boulder activated by a switch , a flamthrower etc without actually changeing the nature of said level?"

What divine law says you have to redesign the level to make something that satisfies the concept of an easy mode?

What divine law says that you can't have different maps depending on the difficulty level?

"Making enemies weaker via stats tweaks is another of your expected answer i guess ? It's useless . Why ? Because usually even with a high level char , if not careful , the base and early foes could prove difficult to you and lead you to death with their behavior and even makes you walk into traps as you avoid them . What's the solution then ? Changeing the AI , making them less efficient in their behavior and pattern ? Well it change completely the way they laid traps and the balance of rooms then , and the whole experience . "

Why is this a problem? They already have to tune the A.I. for the current game, all a different difficulty level would require is saving the different A.I. settings and an interface to allow the user to select said settings if altering A.I. behavior was chosen. Again as a technical problem this is something trivial.

"I don't know everything , i'm not the best designer around , i just truly can't picture a scenario where your ideals about difficulty works in a way that does not change the game . And i haven't seen any of the champion of the "difficulty settings choice" propose something that works within the game , yet"

The reason you can't see this is because you keep unilaterally declaring that these mysterious laws of nature prevent an easy mode from existing because they violate these laws that only exist in your own imagination. You are trying to define an easy mode as something fundamentally impossible, by artificially limiting what would qualify as actually achieving such a thing.

[redha025]

Just add a dlc for 10$ easy mode lol

[Blacklash93]

I'd be fine with FROM tacking on an easy mode, as long as it didn't compromise the way they normally design and tune the game as veteran fans like myself are used to.

Personally I think the difficulty is only one aspect of Souls games' appeal, not all of it. The lore, atmosphere, sense of progression, and level design all stand on their own regardless of the challenge of combat. I think someone would still be able to enjoy those very much even if they were on an easy mode where enemies are easier to fight.