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PS2 Coming To The PS4 – Why No Love For The PS3?

MWEB GameZone writes: "Although the news should make PS2 game fans extremely happy, fans of PS3 games are feeling the sting of disappointment. Everywhere the news pops up that PS2 games are coming to the PS4, there are multiple gamers who ask the question 'But why no PS3?'; Some call it a strange move by Sony, while others are upset at Sony’s 'decision'.

Here is why there is 'no love' for PS3 emulation on the PS4."

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TwoForce968d ago

Would love to see it, but PS4 have different tech. So it difficult to implement it. PS2 has similar tech like PS4, so it easy to give PS2 games emulate to PS4

Sillicur968d ago

Exactly that, people should know about that before just screaming at Sony!

XisThatKid968d ago

besides why cannibalize an viable resource the PS3 is still being sold and developed for. I don't expect Sony to go back on their 10 year plan before dropping support on PS3. Unlike their competition, MS has very little value in the 360 as a hardware. Not saying that's va bad thing especially in their part. But people must understand that worldwide people still buy PS3s.
Personally BC isn't a major play in my book I bout my ps4 for ps4 games and remade PS3 games especially the ones that weren't too popular that should get ba second chance without its stigmas of last gen when released.

saywat247968d ago

well all the worthy ps3 games are being remastered for ps4 so i say we are kinda getting both :D

miyamoto968d ago

Like, "Leave the PS3 alone!"
Ha, ha, ha, ha!

Seriously PS3 is fine by what it is.

kitsune451968d ago (Edited 968d ago )

Oh god...here we go again.

Backwards compatibility is achieved either by having two systems with similar architectures or emulation. The Wii U easily achieved bc because it was essentially running a triple core version of the CPU found in the Wii. All they had to do was disable two cores. Nintendo purposefully made the Wii U this way to prioritize BC and thus performance was no where near as good as PS4/XBOne. It was being held back by a decades old CPU architecture (which itself was really just a slightly upgraded Gamecube CPU.)

Every generation of Xbox has a system very similar to PC, but the components are different. Unlike a PC however, Xbox games were designed solely to be used on a single hardware setup. Thus Microsoft needs to go into each game one by one and make sure they work properly with the new hardware. It's basically like creating a game that only works with Nvidia, then making it work with AMD. This is why we are only seeing a few games being released for BC on Xbox One with (hopefully) more to come as they get certified.

PS3 BC through architecture is nearly impossible. Sony created their own CPU which was notoriously difficult to code for. The idea of translating this to the new AMD setup is borderline insane. That's not even including the extra work going from Nvidia to AMD. Porting every game from scratch would probably be more realistic than this.

PS2 BC is possible through emulation. Like a high end PC, PS4 is capable of emulating and upscaling PS2 games easily. As of today however, even the highest end PCs can't even run a single PS3 game smoothly, so a $300 console is unlikely to achieve this any time soon. I suspect we will first see very, very high end PCs emulating PS3 games, then perhaps console emulation with PS5 or PS6.

Gaikai is Sony's only hope for backwards compatibility. The mistake they made with PS3's architecture still haunts them to this day. Let's not forget that the US Air Force actually purchased almost 2000 PS3's to create the world's fastest supercomputer (at that point in time). These are very powerful and complex machines.

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DragoonsScaleLegends968d ago (Edited 968d ago )

Lol we are lucky that PS2 can even be emulated on PS4 but you expect PS3 to be a walk in the park? Unlike 360 to XB1, PS3 and PS4 have zero similarities on the software/hardware side of things.

But regardless of all the excuses I do like my PS1/PS2 more than my PS3.

Another thing is the fact you can actually play PS3 games in HD already on a PS3. But PS1/PS2 games are almost unplayable on the original consoles on a HDTV because of the extremely low resolution which this emulation seems to boost significantly which is why I'm looking forward to it. I haven't really played my PS2 much during the whole PS3 generation and I would really like to go back to the games I missed and even replay a few gems.

Death968d ago

It's amazing to see people regurgitate the same nonsense over and over. The 360's Xenon processor is PowerPC just like the Cell. This is straight from the Wiki on it, "The processor is based on IBM PowerPC instruction set architecture. It consists of three independent processor cores on a single die. These cores are slightly modified versions of the PPE in the Cell processor used on the PlayStation 3" https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

The Xbox One and PS4 APU's were both created by AMD and are x86 based. If both last gen consoles are PowerPC and this gen they are both x86 based, what exactly are you claiming is so different?

uth11968d ago

Ps2 being a 15 year old console shouldnt be too much of an issue for emulation. I've followed emulation for a long time and it always seemed like the system you want to emulate needed to be 8-10 years older than the system you are running the emulator on to get good results. More if it was a complex archecture with many coprocessors.

This is why I doubt we will ever see a ps3 emulator for ps4. It's why I'm also skeptical of how well MS's 360 emulator works for the more taxing games (I think it's no accident that the first list of 100 games for bc focuses mostly on loghter-weight titles for this reason)

DragoonsScaleLegends968d ago (Edited 968d ago )

@Death

It's funny that you think the Cell processor is the same as a PowerPC processor, I'm not going to go into details but they are most certainty not the same. The biggest issue with emulating the PS3 is the fact it is actually more powerful than the PS4 CPU which is a completely different situation compared to emulating Xbox 360 games on Xbox One. The XB1 CPU is actually several times more powerful than a X360.

Don't believe me check out this chart Ubisoft created:

http://goo.gl/Yokomo

Yeah I'm not so sure if this chart is combining the PS3/X360 GPU and CPU or strictly one or the other but it still shows a difference being in XB1's favor.

You are delusional if you think the Cell CPU is the same as a PowerPC CPU, go read the Wiki and learn something. Sony is distancing themselves away from the Cell CPU because it cost several times more money to manufacturer and it has a more complicated code base than PowerPC and X86 CPU's which is why the PS3 failed at launch.

Death968d ago (Edited 968d ago )

@Uth,

Gears of War 3, Gears of War Judgement, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Just Cause 2, Bioshock Ininite, and COD: Black Op's are light weight? What games do you consider demanding? Is there an agenda behind your posts claiming Xbox 360 b/c games are limited? Maybe you should try it so you don't have to wonder how well it works.

@Dr.

You seriously need to put the koolaid down if you think the PS3 processor is more powerful than the PS4 processor. If what you claim is true, why wouldn't Sony create the PS4 around it so the system could not only have more power, but have native b/c with PS3 games? That is some serious denial you are wielding.

Dabigsiebowski968d ago (Edited 968d ago )

@ death. Believe it or not the PS4 processor really isn't that strong at all. It's ample to supply the needs of development but the cell is literally right there with the 8core if not a little more. Both have different advantages.
Fact is most developers were capping out the old consoles due to the the lack of memory mostly and the GPU just couldn't squeeze anymore. No one ever complained about processing power, all you really heard about was how hard cell was to program for but it was never a slouch to begin with. The reason why they didn't go with cell this generation is obvious. The advantage of CPU and GPU on the same die eliminate certain bottlenecks and is a lot more efficient cost wise and power wise. Smart choice but I'm sure it was a bit of a tough one.

kitsune451967d ago

@Death If you had kept reading the EXACT same wiki you posted, it would go on to say that the Xbox uses 3 PPEs and the PS3 uses 1 PPE and 8 SPEs. Congratulations, you found a correlation between one out of nine units.

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freshslicepizza968d ago

it can be done though, that is the point.

MRMagoo123968d ago

Maybe you can help Sony implement it then huh since you know it can be done lol

FarEastOrient968d ago

With all your experience, show them what they are missing.

freshslicepizza968d ago

they managed to get ps2 games to run on the ps3

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

perhaps some of you should read this. the ps3 was completely different than the ps2 as well.

joeorc968d ago

@moldybread + 34m ago
it can be done though, that is the point.

Umm, I would not be so sure of that, there is a few caveat's that to be frank, make it not only unlikely to work without recoding the majority of the spur's engine optimization code, that I really doubt 1) for performance, 2) its very unlikely if you could do such to get past that code sweep, that you than have 2 more problems in cross loop in simulation of the PS3's EIB ring token bus , direct talk to iO to command a DMA.

Not saying its impossible completely out of the question. But its very unlikely at this point.

There are other points past this to allow the emulation to take hold on performance even though the PS4 has spurs engine support on the PS4's GPU also, its just unlikely will be able to be able to handle direct code of spurs emu code fast enough, due to the way the SPE's design choice in how it direct the code through a token ring EIB, simulation of that code direction is not as 1:1 it would need to allow such performance hits to be able to do so on the PS4 soc without such performance hits, that the recode needed is pretty much really the most cost effective way to do such.

So you are correct that its feasible, its just very unlikely to be feasible to do so. If your going to have to recode its more cost effective to stream or recode from core to the x86, so remaster or than you also than have to deal with the license of iP's on top of this.

Dabigsiebowski968d ago

Please quit being one of these people.

ShadowWolf712968d ago

Dude, the PS3 emulated PS2 games through additional internal hardware (Emotion Engine) that drove up costs. Therein lies the difference.

PS4s don't have internal hardware made to process PS3 games.

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bmf7364968d ago

It's simply too difficult to emulate the CELL CPU, and the PS3's Nvidia GPU, given how the PS4 runs with a mid-tier AMD APU.

The reason why the X360 could be emulated on X1 is because the X360 already ran on an IBM/ATI(AMD) architect, which would not be difficult to emulate given how close to a PC both systems are.

Sony's solution for the PS3 is Playstation Now. In short term, it gives access to the PS3's library through a Netflix-like service, which would also serve them in the long-term if they choose to transition away from consoles and into the service.

Death968d ago

I'm impressed you know that Xbox 360's Xenon processor is an IBM design. I'm disappointed you don't realize "Cell" was made by the same company. Both Xenon and Cell are PowerPC based processors which are IBM designs.

The Xbox One and PS4 are indeed x86 based APU's with AMD graphics. I wouldn't get too caught up on the nVidea to AMD change since the 360 emulated nVidea graphics from the original Xbox just fine.

You are correct about PSNow. Emulating the PS3 and allowing gamers to access their games for free would undermine their subscription service. As long as fans keep claiming b/c isn't possible Sony doesn't need to even try.

Aenea968d ago

@Death

Again, yes, both the 360 and PS3 have a PowerPC based CPU in there, except the 360 has 3 cores, the PS3 has only 1. That core would be doable to emulate on the PS4, the problem lies in the 8 SPEs (which the 360 does not have) that are going to be very difficult to emulate on the hardware in the PS4...

Spotie968d ago (Edited 968d ago )

Death, either go into detail on why they're different, or don't bring up the differences as a point in your favor.

Even if they had the same base, the Cell doesn't work like processors in any other console. That means it's not as to emulate as you want others to think.

Edit: I mean hell. Devs were having a hard enough time porting games over adequately from the 360, which you claim was more similar than commonly thought. Yet now, with still different architecture, you imply it's just that simple? Why, then, are there no GOOD emulators out there that work for all PS3 games?

player911968d ago

Because these are emulators. The PS4 isn't powerful enough to emulate a PS3.

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Fro_xoxo968d ago

some form of backward comp' is better than none. #Options

Sillicur968d ago

Definitely is, fully agreed!

MRMagoo123968d ago (Edited 968d ago )

Doesn't bother me at all. If it's there it's the same to me as if it wasn't. I have a ps1 and Ps2 hooked up to an old school crt for when I wanna play them along with a megadrive and a snes.

Other ppl may feel differently it's just my opinion.

player911968d ago

It is not backwards compatible. This is a Shop to make more money. Like a WiiShop. Thats nothing but emulators too. They want to sell you games you already own. Backwards compatibility means "compatible", not emulated, as in plays natively.

I am sick of paying for the same game over and over and over. You know how many times I bought Mario, Zelda, and Final Fantasy titles?

Fortunately I skipped a PS2, but consoles should improve upon their foundations, not clean slate every gen. 1 game should play across a PS3 and PS4, but with improved graphics. Texture packs can be downloaded on install depending on your system. Easy. I am tired of being raped.

Malice-Flare968d ago

blame Kutaragi for over-engineering the CELL processor...

nitus10968d ago

Why would you want to do that.

The CELL is quite an elegant design however for years the Intel architecture has dominated the PC gaming industry and that is what developers prefer and for some they did not really want to learn something new.

I am well aware that the popular opinion of the CELL was that it hard to develop for which was not true, however it was different and required developers to approach a solution in a different way.

In any professional engineering and scientific environment you get people who look at something new as a challenge and are willing to learn as well as those who just don't want change because it means re-learning.

AstroCyborg968d ago

because sony is having to much fun robbing people with psnow

sactownlawyer916968d ago

Here is the legal definition of robbery since you obviously don't know what it means.

The taking of money or goods in the possession of another, from his or her person or immediate presence, by force or intimidation.

TKCMuzzer968d ago

Why don't people like you think before you post a comment? How on earth can you be robbed when paying for PSNow is an option? It's a streaming service, they are NOT asking you to buy any games again, if you sold your old games and consoles that was YOUR choice, Sony did not ask you to do so.

Please, go beat a different drum...

Eiyuuou968d ago

No. You choose to give them your money. Or you choose not to.

DragoonsScaleLegends968d ago

I don't see it as overpriced considering you could finish the whole PS3 collection within a 3 month subscription. The prices you are wanting would basically mean they are giving them to you for free which is not something any business would do.

Death968d ago

Please define "whole PS3 collection".

There are just over 400 rentals on the service, https://www.playstation.com... with just over 250 of those available in the subscription service https://www.playstation.com... of the more than 1000 games released on disc https://en.wikipedia.org/wi... and also the ones available by download only. https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

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gamejediben968d ago

The PS3 was even more complicated than the Sega Saturn and even now in 2015, there is no fully functioning Saturn emulator.

Maybe in 2025 we'll get PS3 emulation.

Death968d ago

SSF has been doing it since 2009.

gamejediben968d ago

SSF and Yabause are VERY FAR from fully functioning. They can only play certain Saturn games and even those it can play are far from accurate.

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