For Microsoft, they have a variety of measurements when it comes to the Xbox One's success and you might be surprised by what they view as the "most important measure of success."
In other words if you're not beating your competition, then change your rules and pretend the whole league plays by them. Funny last gen all they talked about was sales and how they are were beating the Ps3
I think they are aware that out selling PS4 is not attainable, so it makes sense to focus on something else. Don't see what is flawed about that.
There's nothing flawed about it. It's the fact that some of the MS execs (not all) change their tune the moment they score a month of taking NPD. They don't even give it a second thought. It's a textbook definition of being hypocritical.
It's about the order of importance, and spending energy just to win in sales is not as important as things like games, features, and value. It's more relevant to focus on becoming a better company first, but of course sales still matter. Besides all that, if Sony can gloat about crap like Tomb Raider sales, Aaron Greenberg can gloat about console sales. Both sides can be really petty at times.
I remember last gen on this site it was all sales. Any time someone mentioned exclusives all you'd hear was "exclusives don't matter" from the Xbox camp (it was all about COD marketing). These Xbox marketing guys had no problem yelling out sales figures each month. Sony was pumping out exclusives left and right. And now the tune has changed for them. Exclusives all of a sudden matter and sales don't on Xbox lol I wonder if they realize it's possible to have both? Good thing there's no moving goal posts or focus with Sony. I bought this console for games and games only. Couldn't be more satisfied in my opinion!
I wonder what songs they'll sing come 2016 when Sony starts pumping their megaton exclusives left and right until the end of this gen, all while leading sales on a 2:1 ratio. Yeah I think its safe to say that from 2016 team Green (xbox) will go radio silence on us, for a long long time.
Can't argue with this. "I bought this console for games and games only." Can't argue with that either. I bought my console for its game offerings as well. EDIT: @Nova "Yeah I think its safe to say that from 2016 team Green (xbox) will go radio silence on us, for a long long time." To the ones that really care I suppose. Someone like me will be playin allot of games just like you in 20116 as well.
Bro...I was here/there.... I'd never realised how important some people cherished sales until I joined n4g I swear.....if i used n4g logic it would have been impossible to enjoy anything that didn't hit halo numbers....gamecube....forget about it, okami....must be crap... It was dumb as 98 percent of commenters received zilch from any of the players in regards to shares or whatever Arghhh... the 'exclusives don't matter' narrative. ..the worst crock of apologetic s### I've ever heard often backed up by said sales and came about when the xbox had little exclusives to tout. I still remember some claiming the os3 had 'no games'... lol Flip flops. Not all were like that so I'm not trying to tar all xbox fans with the same brush but I laugh at those who used to laud npd whilst ignoring the rest of the world but now scream foul.... not you Angelic Ice....I don't remember you all up in it like some. Truth is I'm perfectly fine with people who have different opinions and preferences as long as they aren't talking s###, spreading misinformation or constantly being a hypocrite. Ps fans shouldn't champion npd over anything else either, especially games. I much prefer banter and discussions over games, graphics, exclusives. They were happening since forever.
@SpaceRanger But the same can be said this generation. PS players have changed there tune as well. I remember when paying for online was bad, having no games was bad, having Call of Duty was bad, sales don't matter conversation's. Please spare me your hypocritical nonsense. Measuring success, specifically, with consoles comes down to the games. Disagree all you want but next year is going to be huge for both more games bigger third parties and continued support for the titles out now.
Only flaw in you assessment is the Xbox has been pumping console exclusives from the start this gen. It had so many in the beginnning the only draught was this year until now. I have the PlayStation as well and only bought it for exclusives. Not Indies or multiplats. So far I've been slightly disappointed. I've had more fun playing ori and halo5 then I've had with any other game this year. Except for the witcher.
Mr lito Paying for online still sucks even though I was paying for ps+ since it started, and you left out the part where xbox fans downplayed ps plus but are now in comparison articles lauding g4g games... Having no games still sucks but whos had no games.....this notion of holiday>rest of the year some are clinging to is nothing more than deflection. How can the 3 months at the end of the year be more important than majority of the year. Cod deal....Wont argue with you on that, it just seems sony took a leaf outof ms's book.. nothing to boast about
Except for the U.S. and UK the 360 was never beating the PS3 though.
Console sales mean next to nothing. That is a fact. The Wii was the best selling console last generation. But, it never had near the attach rate that X360 and PS3 had. And really never brought the core gaming crowd to it. Microsoft is completely right in changing the measure of success because it was always wrong to begin with. Console vendors don't make their money purely on the hardware. They the money on their hardware, accessory, media, royalties, and network sales and most of those are driven by engagement of the customer in the experience.
Actually they mean more than you think. Why do you think Playstation lost so many exclusive deals with GTA,Tekken,Final Fantasy, Devil May cry? because how poorly the Ps3 was selling compared to Xbox 360. Console sales affect gamers since it could mean an exclusive deal for your console of choice
@2pacalypsenow I'm not sure what planet you are from. But there were three reason PS3 lost exclusives. They were: 1) Microsoft spent a lot of money to get developers to make their games on 360. (Rumor had it that MS paid $50 million to ensure GTA IV was a first class citizen on 360). 2) Microsoft had a better architecture on 360 than the proprietary architecture of the Cell processor on PS3, so developers flocked to it... In much the same way developers flocked to PS4 this gen and shunned ESRAM. 3) Microsoft had the policy of release simultaneously on 360 or risk not being able to release on 360 ever. I don't think console sales played in it as much as MS captured core gamers early and hooked them to 360. Developers could not afford to have their games skip 360 because there was a highly engaged audience that bought games on 360. If your console sales theory is true than why did so many 3rd parties abandon the Wii and Wii U? Simple. The audience on the Wii, though large was not buying typical core games. The Wii sold just about as much as 360 and PS3 combined yet could not hold onto 3rd party support.
This is practically the definition of damage control. So now it's "engagement", an arbitrary word and signifier, that they are using to deflect the fact that they are losing monumentally to the competition in a generation where they expected to be dominating. It's difficult to see defeat in the eyes of multi-billion dollar corporations, but this goalpost moving is unprecedented and incredibly obvious.
It's either "There's more engagment on our console" to "Microsoft has more money than Sony" to "Sony is broke". People in the Xbox camp are always trying to deflect from the main topic at hand by changing the subject and moving goal post's as to why Sony isn't really winning the console war and it's quite sad to see that people refuse to accept and come to grips with reality. When Nintendo was winning last gen I didn't sit here and say "well how many gamers out of 100+ million people bought Wii consoles?" There's no point, 100+ million is a 100+ million sold. I didn't move goal post's or create stupid metrics like that. I accepted it and moved on. If Microsoft was winning I'd take the same approach. The PS4 has sold more than the Xbox One so Sony is winning the console war/race and Sony is winning by such a huge lead that Microsoft isn't even giving their sales figures anymore Microsoft is losing, Sony is winning. It's as simple as that. Just like you and Apocalypse pointed out, people like this Xbox exec, creating these stupid metrics and moving goal post's is not going to change that. Well said, both of you guys btw. + 1
And this is exactly what I was talking about in the ridiculous "who is winning the BC race" thread. Creating new metrics to give yourself a win doesn't mean you're winning.In fact,you are losing. When Sony was getting outsold in America last gen(not worldwide mind you) based on NPD sales between ps3 and xbox360, Sony created other useless metrics that didn't matter to save face. This is a save face move. Either you are winning or you are losing. In children's football(soccer),the winning team gets a trophy.the losing team used to get nothing.now they hand out ribbons for "participation." That teaches kids nothing about win and loss.we are not talking about sportsmanship. Either you are winning the game or you are not.don't give yourself a trophy for how many times your team "kicked the ball." Don't know how to make this any simpler.stop making useless metrics.and I'm not just talking about Microsoft.
Are they claiming to be winning? Have they implied at any point that their engagement levels are higher than Sony's? You could say that they are avoiding direct comparison, but then there is nothing to stop Sony coming out with their own engagement figure twice as high so that probably wouldn't be a smart way to spin things. Maybe they measure engagement because it is actually the most important metric? After all, if you look through the PR-friendly terminology they are essentially trying to measure "number of people we can sell stuff to". Sounds like a pretty valid Microsoft metric when you put it that way...
lol, classic goalpost moving huh?
what does this all means? I don't get it and how does it affect us as gamers? It doesn't. All I know is MS is doing the right thing for its fanbase with the new release of NXE with highly requested features like BC, and supplied great games from Rare Replay, Gears Ultimate, Forza 6, Halo 5, to Tomb raider for us XB1 owners with another huge update in February that will include things like Cortana and background music. Whatever you are doing on XB1, MS, continue the great work.
And being their bread and butter is some people's life choice. Oh well.
What it seems like is despite what you stated which is spot on, goalposts are being shifted due to ms's position. This is made more apparent by their ways of last gen which were quite different. Ms is improving the xbox and its a shadow of its former self in a good way. Waaaay more appealing to neutrals than pre launch. Maybe its best just to keep quiet than admit barometers are being changed.
"Engagement" is the ultimate metric if you are looking at potential to sell software, services, micro-transactions and such. It is the number of people in the shop. The biggest value or use for reporting on sales is actually the same, it is an indication of the size of the audience to sell to. Revenue on the hardware itself is a secondary factor to that. With Microsoft moving towards a shared Windows store the "engagement" metric actually does make more sense than console sales. Having said that, engagement being a valuable statistic is not a legit reason to stop sharing sales figures. So there is definitely a strong sense of damage control in there as well. Engagement is a statistic for the decision makers and investors to consider, rather than a measure of success. The chest-beaters seem to have surrendered.
More important than revealing how many units that hardware and software sold?
As I've said before, get ready for the end of MS consoles. Everything they were doing hints at a pull out and focus on Windows on pc and moving the gaming business there. Xbox will be phased out for services. They'll probably see out this gen, and maybe they'll need one more generation.
Nah, I don't think they do that. The X1 is selling better still compared to the 360 I believe so it certainly isn't doing all that bad. If they decided to release another one after the 360 they will again after the X1 sells even better. Plus I really am hoping they're not stopping with consoles otherwise Sony will have no competition (unless the NX proves me otherwise) and I like Sony but they need the competition to be pushed further!
Selling better or not they are still losing money. Maybe their next console will be some kind of steam box like machine. Running windows 10.
You must have a gaggle of children, because I'm not quite sure that you understand the whole, "Pull out", thing.
Xbox is gonna be a paid service on P.C. There will be normal P.C games and Xbox games you can only play when you have the Xbox live on Windows 10. Xbox steam. Then Sony and Nintendo will remain making consoles.
They are definitely moving towards Xbox as a service. That doesn't mean they are going to stop making consoles though, as the XBox represents a cheap and easy way for people to get access to those services. I bet that at some point in a meeting room in Redmond they have referred to the console as an "on ramp".
I like ms's new approach. They are doing good things. Sooo many games this holiday season.
They are just 4..
Yeah when you work and have family, 1 can be enough. Lol Assassins creed Fallout Halo Cod Tomb raider
I would have thought that most companies important measure of success isn't "Are we beating the competition?" (that is just a bonus), but "Is our product making us a profit?".
Quite so. These metrics aren't so much about "are we making a profit" though. Engagement is about "what potential do we have to make a profit". Engagement levels are something to consider when making decisions, more so than a measure of success.
MS are on the backfoot, their strategy isn't working, and for all the talk, X1 gamer's aren't even supporting their overhyped exclusives. They seem happier playing old 360 games. Plus I've never seen so many xbone gamer's defensive like this before...If your console is so great ..then spend more time playing it, than defending a plastic box /
Many of MS exclusive have been number one or charted and that's evidence enough of support imo
Sad to see Ppl not realising the engagement aspect of MS Plan. Windows 10 on all MS platforms increases engagement of live or cloud to over a hundred million by end of 2016. This is excluding 360 which is serious money for MS
love or hate ms, they are entitled to do as they please. as long as they support the product (and they have more than done that with the xbox one) it really doesnt matter where they set the goal post to. phil has completely changed the culture of xbox. he seems pretty legit so far (but all clever suits do when they they want your $, just ask jack tretton) when your $ can let get do over, after do over in this gaming industry, you have the power to set the goal post wherever you please. its idiots like us in these forums who are the idiots. those execs and such are actually get along and hang out with each other for the most part. we are the internet pawns who are willing to look like complete fools over which plastic box we prefer. all of us.
Engagement is actually a better measurement. As well as number of Xbox live accounts being active. Here's why: It's a simple case of limited edition consoles. Many people who already have an Xbox or PlayStation also go out to buy the limited editions. I was very tempted to do the same recently and I've never thought of doing that before. But I do know individuals who've bought and sold a ps4 or Xbox multiple times. Not defending. Just pointing out a reason. 29million in console sales doesn't actually mean 29million people are playing it.
With a difference of over 14 million systems I highly doubt that there are more people using X1s than PS4s. Its only logical.
I never said more people are using the Xbox then the ps4 Simply stated it does allow for a more accurate count.
"The most important measure of success is engagement and usage". Via Xbox Live fees solidly since 2002.
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