Matt Byrd of Pixel Critique looks at developer Bethesda's role in the modern game industry.
Nope. That's CD projeck red. Fallout is just a shooter with RPG elements, not a fully RPG
Agreed. I enjoy the world of the Witcher much more than Fallout. There is hardly any story there that grasps me. It's cool and all, but I'm bored of it after 10 hours.
? lolz. That is like saying Witcher is just a hack and slash with RPG elements. Fallout is 100% an RPG bud, I don't know why you thought having a gun in it made it not one. I don't even play Fallout 3 or 4 as a "shooter" I actually use V.A.T.S most times. You can play Fallout and technically not even play it as a shooter so I don't know what you mean buddy.
"Fallout is 100% an RPG bud" It's actually fallen quite far into the simplified, barely-even-a-RPG category right next to games like ME2/3, or even worse than them. Fallout 4 has about as many relevant and complex RPG elements as Sunset Overdrive or inFamous. Character building is a joke, dialogue stat checks are a joke, weapon and build variety are a joke, dialogue options and the voiced protagonist are a joke, the writing is a joke, and overall the RPG systems got downgraded far too much from New Vegas. FO4 only makes me appreciate New Vegas even more...
"It's actually fallen quite far into the simplified, barely-even-a-RPG category right next to games like ME2/3, or even worse than them." So the building of characters stats and attributes, the building and customization of sanctuary, choices you make in dialog do have consequences. I don't even know how you think New Vegas is better in comparison to Fallout 4. I think you are suffering from a case of rose colored nostalgia-itis.
@maniacmayhem I was pointing out the simplification and casualization of every system based on RPG elements, but if that's what you want to believe, sure. For example, character building: the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system is now a joke. The perk system only makes variety less present, and previous builds less viable. Skills got removed, the point allocation got simplified to hell and back, and now you have a total of eight character statistics instead of the 18 you had by playing New Vegas in hardcore mode. The dialogue and the story are just as bad as they were in 3, but now you have less options (just 4!) for conversation instead of the amount of choices you had in 3/NV. What about the stat checks in dialogue or other actions? Gone. Now they ONLY depend on charisma. And that's just a little example... New Vegas isn't even my favorite Fallout anyways, that's 2.
@EDMIX Being able to talk things out with a Big Bad, offering alternative solutions, using your wits and intelligence rather than bullets to solve problems - is mostly gone in Fallout 4, and it hurts the overall experience. Just because you spam a mechanic in the game doesn't change the what the game is. Who wants to play a 100-hour shooter? Stats also have little to do with the interactions between the player and the other game systems No STR requirement for weapons. No Low Int dialogue. Little to no skill checks No perk speech checks Dialogue Wheel and Voiced PC with limited and vague options. No Skills, every player is same with all weapons. No Crit Chance. Numbers are scary! Companion can't die. No weapon degradation. No Survival mode. You cant do anything in a unique way. As a matter a fact, you will probably wind up using the same weapon sets in every play through due to ammo scarcity. Which is a step back. My play through and yours are likely exactly the same with the exception of which ending faction we chose. Being able to build a unique characters stats and having multiple outcomes instead of 2 options to 1 quest adds replay-ability and depth, something F4 lacks, because you can just max out everything and become the unkillable survivor with the only difference being your faction choice and appearance. It starts out innocently enough, with the entire story of Fallout's alternate history explained to you - war, escalation, annexation, nukes, vaults - leaving nothing to the imagination. But that also leaves the player nothing to discover for themselves. When multiple factions are introduced, any satisfaction is replaced with confusion. What you do never seems to have a real impact on the others until a very clearly marked prompt pops up on screen. Your dialogue options are also limited to no more and no less than 4 options, which are usually vague and you have no idea what your about to agree/disagree with (Sarcastic? is that Sarcastic disagree or Sarcastic Agree???) Bethesda have a track record of making sandbox worlds first and the game 2nd. In this case it's Shooter first (being that they hired ID and Bungie employees to help with that and the simple fact that criticals are now a button press away instead of a random chance like an actual RPG) and an RPG 2nd.
@Rachel- https://youtu.be/loc4k3EsmG... "Being able to talk things out with a Big Bad, offering alternative solutions, using your wits and intelligence rather than bullets to solve problems - is mostly gone in Fallout 4" You made it really easy to disregard the rest of any of your post. (or really anything you post on here to be honest) You don't know what your talking about and its very very clear you haven't played the game and if you did, clearly not enough to make such a slow claim. "Just because you spam a mechanic in the game doesn't change the what the game is. Who wants to play a 100-hour shooter?" Who said its just shooting? I mean...you do know it has more weapons then guns right? At this point...I'm questioning just how much you really know about this game vs what you've heard others claim. "Stats also have little to do with the interactions between the player and the other game systems" That is as wrong as really anything can be, that is 100% factually wrong. Having perks for night time can give you a boost of life at night, having perks for female interactions can boost being able to persuade a female NPC or even barter well with a female shop owner, you can get a perk that allows animals to not attack you etc. I don't again think you fully know what your talking about so it sounds like you haven't played it or are just going off of what you've heard folks who know just as little as you do have stated..
"not fully a RPG" lol. Fallout 4 is 100% RPG first and foremost. Playing it as a shooter isn't even mandatory, it's optional.
It's all about Fallout to me but I do agree that The Witcher is amazing too. I'm always going to choose post apocalyptic or sci-fi over fantasy. I've been gaming since 1990 but Fallout 3 is why I love any RPG / Open world games.
Fallout 4 is very much 100% RPG. The combat may not suit your taste, but it possesses every trait of a WRPG.
Bethesda invented huge opened world RPG's. Witcher 3 is a great first effort and a great game, but it has a long way to go to reach the complexity of the NPC's, and world details in Bethesda games. Fallout is 100% RPG... just in a more modern setting.
Every single side quest in the Witcher 3 is more interesting than Fallout 4.
Agreed. I felt that was likely to happen with Witcher 3 as I played withcer 1 and 2 and felt they would have issues with making it open world considering it would be their first. Good to know that Witcher 3 is helping them get better at the concept for Cyberpunk 2077 or even Witcher 4 as I'm not really putting them on leaving the series alone lol. Bethesda in terms of world building and NPCs are just far, far ahead of the game. Its hard to even find any game that is even close to their series in terms of detail, items, NPC, design etc.
Please describe these complexities to me
They have jobs and homes, know when to go to bed and when to go to work. They go to taverns to drink and talk. When they go to bed they actually go into a bed. There are many more examples that you wouldn't find in other RPG's, but I know not all will agree, but you can just try and argue with me, then watch the masses gravitated to Bethesda RPG time and time again, because the experiences are more authentic than any other RPG. The words are truly open and move convincing.
@Bigpappy there are a lot of RPGs or nonRPGs that do that, and in the department of RPG mechanic complexities FO4 is completely dumbed down and streamlined
They've also proven to be the masters of frequently releasing broken games and still get critical acclaim for doing so.
17 hours into it and haven't had anything break.
31 hours here and no crashes or serious bugs, Just minor stuff like getting stuck. It's definitely Bethesda's most polished release.
19 hours in and nothing. You know they havent played it. GOTY IMO.
"There are no bugs as long as I haven't encountered them"
@Rachel_Alucard Difference between a broken game & bugs.
60 hours and no crashes or bugs on PS4.
Because you know a game that is perfect with no issues? I mean...CDPR's first try at open world is actually still riddled with bugs. The reality is, Bethesda is the only one that has a history with so many bugs, but its also because they might be the ones making the most complex open world concept. Can you even name a game with such complexity that is perfect with no bugs? Mind you, they are getting that critical acclaim for making masterful RPGs and amazing complex open worlds littered with items for many, many uses. There is a reason why they are one of the few to actually do such a thing, yet have bugs too. I'd rather have them seek to create a deep open world, then simplify the game to have less bugs. What is a game with less bugs that is also nerfed and limited due wanting to run perfect? I'd rather they focus on pushing the boundaries of gaming, then nerf to be simplified and casual to have less bugs. The millions that buy their games very much shows just how much of a stupid issue it is. Clearly its not enough for people to stop playing, so I'm not sure how big of a deal it really is other then for fanboys to cry over bugs. Yet the top games this gen, all have bugs in them... I'd rather have them focus on making the best, they have issues with bugs as who do they have to look at to make such a world? They are PIONEERS in their craft bud, its hard to tell a developer how to make a bug free concept, in a concept that is only done by that developer. If millions who buy it don't care enough to not buy it based on this issue, I'm not sure why you do...
Lots of salt in here...
Keeps the roads from freezing over.
Lol dont even compare it to Witcher 3. Witcher is on a different level. This is just rinse and repeat. All the good and bad of Fallout 3 are here. Not that much has changed.
They're two very different games, The Witcher 3 nails story, visuals & has decent melee combat mechanics. What makes Fallout's world different is the many interactions with it, the varied locations and gameplay styles.
''They're two very different games'' You're right. Witcher 3 is awesome and Fallout 3 err i mean 4 is mediocre.
"You're right. Witcher 3 is awesome and Fallout 3 err i mean 4 is mediocre." Such a compelling argument. You win brah, *drops Fallout 4 and runs to the store to get the Witcher 3
Yeh let's encourage Bethesda to release more games which need patches and have major bugs and glitches This year's RPG award will go to Witcher 3 because Cd project red deserve it more and the way they have handled the whole patching stuff should be something Bethesda needs to pay close attention to I am a bigger fallout fan than Witcher but I also see the long history of Bethesda releasing broken games, and unlike other developers Bethesda always gets a free pass from gaming journalists and gamers I was told we are lucky to have fallout 4 so what you mean tell me is Bethesda hates money so they only made fallout 4 to make us happy? Give me a break It sells so we will get more games in fallout series It's time for Bethesda to work on a new true next gen engine. Praise Bethesda but also please blame them got shortcomings too
Reading you post, one would have to assume W3 had NO patches or updates. But that would be untrue, no?
Look my issue isn't with patches, it's the fact cr project red have been quick to respond to fan feedback Bethesda wee super slow with patches with fallout 3 and skyrim. New vegas still isn't fixed I hope Bethesda also takes all the feedback and release patches quickly. That's all I am saying Emz99 Witcher 3 was buggy but to say it's still really buggy is just incorrect. Now Witcher 3 is much better and smoother game than when it launched Issue is reviewers are willing yo over look bugs in favor or hopes of them being fixed quickly. In my humble opinion games should be docked points if they are buggy or have glitches. I am not saying my opinion is a fact or only matters, just simply stating my opinion that's all
@Show- "Bethesda wee super slow with patches with fallout 3 and skyrim. New vegas still isn't fixed" that was last gen bud, mind you...it hasn't even been a week yet since Fallout 4 launched. You heard they are not planning a patch? I mean....they got a day 1 patch lol, not soon enough for you or? "Witcher 3 was buggy but to say it's still really buggy is just incorrect" How do you know the degree of bugs? What I've seen states otherwise. " Now Witcher 3 is much better and smoother game than when it launched" Ok...sooooo in 6 months would it not be safe to say Fallout 4 will be much "better and smoother game than when it launched"? Your excuses don't make sense as could you not apply this to Fallout 4 right now? So it can be better after launch, but Fallout 4 doesn't apply to this huh? Mind you, you don't know how they do their patches this gen other then The ESO and even that game got timely patches.
_-EDMIX-_ look i am not hating on fallout 4 and i would love it if bethesda fixes all these issues in less than 6 months. my arguments isn't even against fallout 4 or for witcher 3 all i am trying to say is for future bethesda games maybe they can use a new engine, have a game which is better optimized and maybe launch with less glitches fallout 4 is a lot smoother game than fallout 3 for sure so all i am saying is bethesda can do even better and hopefully learn from some of their mistakes. i am not blindly hating on fallout like some trolls, i am just voicing my legit concerns IMO CD Project red have set the bar for how you support your open world game after launch and i hope bethesda can not only match but set their on bar even higher
https://www.youtube.com/wat... and http://www.ibtimes.co.in/wi... and https://www.youtube.com/wat... and https://www.youtube.com/wat... But all games launch perfect but Bethesda's doe right? But...no bugs huh? lol, they even spend the whole damn video on Witcher 3 SOLELY! Its not saying CDPR is bad, its saying such a complex game will have COMPLEX issues what they are doing is not the norm of design, its hard and difficult. Sorry buddy, but Bethesda does that concept better and they both have bugs, but last I recall...I'm playing Fallout 4 right now with no issues... "This year's RPG award will go to Witcher 3 because Cd project red deserve it more" Nope. Their first try at open world went fine, but its far from a Bethesda killer. The don't have the deep NPC network that is found in Bethesda titles that release. Witcher 3 has major bugs bud, so please...stop trying to make it sound as if this is only isolated to just this team. Having over 20 hours in Fallout 4 right now ,I've yet to even come across any major bugs that have stopped me from playing the game or are even noticeable. Thus far, the worst I've seen was no subtitles when a NPC was talking to me... Thats it. Witcher 3 is STILL getting patched and has a wall of issues ,huge list of quest that are even broken and that doesn't stop it from getting praise. Its not because it doesn't exist, its merely that its not SOOOOO bad that it hurts the game. CDPR likely learned that making such a complex world isn't easy, its THEM that actually need to seek what Bethesda is doing as Fallout 4 is the least buggy of their games to ever release. I encountered bugs on Witcher 3 within the first hour of playing the game... Yet we bashed Ubisoft FOR THE SAME DAMN ISSUES! Did Unity not have those missing faces? Did they not have people doing strange things? Yet Witcher 3 has the same issues...but GOTY? I don't get it bud. What we are saying is both games have many of the same exact issues, yet your saying one should get GOTY and the other is crap and is bad? lolz, no. Witcher 3 from what I've played might be equal to the issues in Unity as I even got a quest that was unplayable, faces gone, a save deleted and had to start over again and a quest NPC just disappeared, later patched in. Dear god....please stop. As it seems many want to throw stones at other developers, yet praise others with the exact 100% same issues. Leave your personal emotional issues out of Witcher 3. It either factually has those issues or doesn't. If you hate one game for this, hate the rest bud.
Witcher 3 bugs dont hamper the gameplay much. Fallout has a general broken feel. Performance issues, various glitches, i got deathclaws randomly appearing when they are not supposed to. Witcher is a much more ambitious game, The sheer scale, the world feels much more lived in, with weather, animations, full movement of people moving around, the density of assets is much much higher and the graphical fidelity is much higher. AND ALMOST NO LOADING. AND MORE FUN (this is subjective, i'm annoyed at the poor shooting mechanics of fallout 4)
@pan. "don't hamper the gameplay" http://www.gamefaqs.com/boa... http://www.cinemablend.com/... http://www.gameinformer.com... http://community.us.playsta... Mind you, this happened to me my very first day of playing the game. http://segmentnext.com/2015... but doesn't affect gameplay huh? "MORE FUN" is subjective bud. At the end of the day both games regardless of how we feel about them both have bugs, period. The issue is not weather you get bugs in Fallout or not, its that the same bugs in Witcher 3 exist and are even worst yet your making it out to be a different situation. If it wasn't, why can I find so much data on it? I accept Fallout 4 will have bugs, JUST like Witcher 3, I'm not delusional trying to make it seem as if one of the games is perfect and one is broken. By your own logic, Witcher 3 should be seen the same way in terms of brokenness. The first day of playing Witcher 3, I got a broken side quest with bugs that couldn't be completed even though I did everything, it was later patched and mind you, many quest still have issues after its latest patch. Not saying Fallout 4 is perfect, but I'm not saying Witcher 3 is some how on some other level, its illiterately MORE bug filled then Fallout 4, I've played 20 hours of Fallout 4 with zero issues and all quest completed without issue thus far. I couldn't say that about the first 3 hours of Witcher 3 where I spent lots of it googling whats wrong with the side quest, ONLY to find on Reddit that I wasn't alone. You going to get mad at a game for bugs, equally be so about both as I'm 100% sure Witcher 3 not only has the same level of bugs, I might say thus far it has MORE as I've yet to even run into some game breaking bug for Fallout 4.
Bethesda games appeal to everyone because they have a low level of depth and an increased level of streamline in nearly every facet of the game. They are very very easy to pick up and get into, they're also easy and they really don't punish the player. Now, mind you streamline isn't bad but different parts of their games have been streamlined to the point that they have become poor. Each new Bethesda game is a weaker rpg than the last and they really move closer and closer to a fully functioning action open world. I firmly believe that a lot of people don't know what an rpg is except for the most superficial reasons. Is an rpg a game that just allows you to upgrade your character and his gear? no. Is it a game that allows you to build settlements? no. Is it a game that just has stats? no. A lot of people really don't know what an rpg is and if you would ask them they might mention one of the things I mentioned before. The real attraction to these games is the amount of content, power fantasy feeling, mods and freedom that they give in an open world. Their games are really poor rpg's post-Morrowind. Each new Bethesda game has so much content that the player can go through that it dwarfs other open world games. Their games aren't necessarily the largest by size but they have far more quests than your average open world. It's part of the reason why they introduced unlimited fetch quests in Skyrim and Fallout 4. They also make you feel good about yourself because they have increasingly allowed the player to do every thing that they wanted in them with absolutely no consequence to it. It's why you can't fail quests in their newer games without the quest important character dying, and it's why you also have unlimited leveling and a simplified easy leveling system that allows you to max out and become the ultimate badass in the world. A lot of their design choices go against what would be needed for a good rpg. The lack of failure, unlimited leveling, extremely simple leveling system, poor writing, lack of meaningful choices, lack of reactivity in the world ad more make their games more and more weak rpgs. I disagree with the article here though. The reason why Bethesda's games have become increasingly successful is the tactic that almost every other successful video game used. Their games are homogenous, they have very very good advertising and they're made on high budgets, and they retain the previous fanbase and garner a new fanbase each new title. It's not because they make good rpg's or anything like that. The article ceases to mention that a game like Skyrim and Fallout 4 are both games that are in the top costliest video games too.
You realize those are solely YOUR standards for what an rpg is right? It's not a fact. You've built up some ridiculous standards as to what an rpg should be, but to be honest, imo, you're completely wrong, and you'd have a hard time finding many people that share your ridiculous opinion. In fact, the way you're speaking, it kind of sounds like the only games that would count as "true" rpgs to you would be the souls/borne series. Probably a souls fanboy as well (one of the most elitist and annoying types of fanboys).
I think you have it wrong. Genres exist, certain foods are certain foods, a tiger is a tiger. Theres a reason we call something by a name. I think he's trying to talk about the real reason behind games being called RPG, it is when you are immersed in the game so much that you are role playing an identity whether given (commander shepherd etc) or your own name/nameless ones. Knowing the genre and the audience is very very important.
I've never played a Souls game but if you have one and you don't mind then PM me so you can send it to me. The only From Software game i've played is Bloodborne. Like previously said, genre's exist but Bethesda games are homogenized and are very easy to get into both their flagship franchises ever since they bought Fallout. I'd have an easy time finding people who agree with me. Maybe not on N4G which is filled with fanboys or people that will disagree without giving a good reason why, or people who just want to feel good without criticizing a company and making excuses for them. My standards aren't ridiculous. It seems that Bethesda already know what's supposed to be in an rpg yet work so hard not to make one or a good one at that.
I like both but I guarantee I'll be playing fallout 4 again multiple times I can't say the same for witcher.
Make no mistake, i'm enjoying my time with Fallout 4. I enjoy Fallout lore, music, environmental storytelling and setting. But after first rush, the sense of watering down is setting in. I really liked to play F3 and NV with high intelligence and high speech character. Now speech checks for those are pretty much gone. We used to have medicine, intelligence, speech, strength speech checks (you could intimitade with high strength), so having speech check with three different colors every now and then feels like a major step down compared to what we used to have. Dialogue wheel is also a huge disappointment. Right now i'm just half randomly pressing answer buttons, because i have no idea what my character is going to say based on option that has one word describing the answer. And there is no option to go back in dialogue. Like if i choose the option that asks more info about the quest, it may end the whole conversation. Before we had whole "conversation trees". You asked info about something it could open 5 new answers, pick one of those you get 3 more answers etc. I like the voiced protagonist, but honestly i would rather have silent one with buttload of options to answer with all kinds of speech checks. No strength requirements for weapons is a bad idea also. It's pretty ridiculous that my high charisma, high intelligence guy can use every weapon in the game, with no restrictions. What's the point to do a strenght character, if your only benefits are higher carry limit and few perks? Or what is the point of any build, when all you get are perks that have no impact on anything major? And lockpicking and hacking is kind of stupid in Fallout 4 when they lay keys and passwords to very obvious places in buildings. So getting into a locked room with expert lock doesn't boil down to your lockpick skill. Lockpick skill saves you 2 minutes, because you don't have to find a key with a huge vault-boy head hanging from it. After how well Skyrim sold, with all of those internet jokes, i just feel they tried to cater Fallout 4 to those vast internet masses who watch cat posts and laugh to "arrow to the knee" jokes. It just feels that Bethesda made the game so, that no matter what kind of build you have, you will get through the game and you can have everything in the game. RPG's should be that you are king of something and beggar of something else. Or mediocre on everything. Live and learn Bethesda, live and learn. Atleast i hope so for Fallout 5.
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