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Xbox 360 starting to show its (R)AGE

From gameplayer: "The differences in PS3 and Xbox 360 hardware capabilities have been debated since the dawn of next-gen, but has the Xbox 360 finally revealed its Achilles heel?"

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Viktor E3419d ago

With no First Party AAA Exclusives,shaky Third party relations,and a budget that is quickly running out,Microsofts Game Division is failing more and more by the Hour

Zerodin3419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

K thx bai!

cahill3419d ago

thats fanboyish but harsh reality
the price cut of PRO didnt make any major impact in retail (EXCEPT VGCRAPCHARTZ ofcourse)

x360 had a good run
NOTICE : "HAD"

However MS could still sell some more x360 if it includes a Blu Ray player in it

morganfell3419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

Thw bluray player on a 360 will never do any good. They would have to sell enough bluray players to make development of a special version of a game that was the 360 bluray version worthwhile. Won't ever happen.

The console is going down for the count.

cahill is precisely correct. They slashed the price of the 360 and it couldn't get into the top 15 on Amazon. Meanwhile the 80GB PS3 was number 1 or 2 every day - NOT JUST IN VIDEO GAME SALES BUT OVER ALL ON AMAZON. That is moving some consoles out the door.

It HAS been a good run but everyday the 360 lead narrows. The PS3 is moving into the lead console development platform. Look at what the Ghostbusters Dev stated:

http://www.joystiq.com/2008...

"If we made a PS3-only game, for example, you could double the amount of objects on screen that you're seeing," Randel told the site at a Sierra event last week. "The PlayStation 3 has seven processors and the 360 only has three, so seven versus three means you can do a lot more on the PS3."

RawPowah3419d ago

There is literally,not a single Xbox 360 title that I'm interested in;

Alan Wake is nowhere to be found,Too Human 2 will probably be canceled/pushed back multiple times based on the negative reviews Too Human 1 is looking to receive,Halo Wars=See Alan Wake above,Splinter Cell has been canceled,Rock Band 2 will be on the Ps3,Mass Effect 2 much like Mass Effect 1 will be best on PC AND will probably be on the Ps3 in some form,Bioshock 2 will be on the Ps3,Left 4 Dead will be on the Ps3,PGR developers are no longer going to make PGR games,Ninja Gaiden 3 is all but confirmed to be a Multi-platform game-What with the reason behind the games exclusivity no longer being there,Forza 3 will be on 2 Discs=Need I say more?Ugh,the software situation on the Xbox 360 is THAT bad

AngryXbot3419d ago

Lmao that just shows you the crap they produced and the lies they fed the xbots!

2 fking years. Its not futureproof like we said it wasnt. Guess what, PS3 is where its at. Where else will you find unique and triple A content like LBP, R2 and KZ2!

Shane Kim3419d ago

I like the article about the Ghostbuster dev. This has been known since the beginning of this gen, but developers have been afraid to say anything. This guy has balls and dare to say the truth and I expect more of these articles in the future. I wonder how long it'll take for the devs to stop making games on the box all together.

juuken3419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

Zerodin, Viktor may have been very harsh with his comments but it's the truth. The 360 is a last-gen console. Developers will have to cut loose ends to make titles work on the 360. Unless Microsoft doesn't want to be left out, they'll have to do something about the space issues.

That's a fact.

And may I add they shot themselves in the damn foot when they went the HD DVD way.

valknight3419d ago

i completely disagree, how about we go and spend an extra three hundred dollars for a system that looks nowhere near as good on many games, or a system that can only say two things about itself,

1 mgs4 oooh already in bargain bins in japan
2 blue ray ok so the games can be a bit bigger, like i care.

morganfell3419d ago

I don't expect much from a poster that is willing to quote already disproven bargain rumors. Go on, go down to your local Best Buy and look at the cost of MGS4.

There actually are very few games that look better on the 360. That is one of the biggest BS lies around. More and more, as developers embrace and learn a newer system PS3 games look better period.

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 3419d ago
Darkiewonder3419d ago

They should install game to the Hard drive. Ignore the HDD less 360 owners because you can't compromise the game even if Microsoft wants them to.

and i bet someone's going to mention something about this is better on PC. xD

can't have a negeative 360 news here right? right? SPIN it!

Morgan Douglas Jones3419d ago

Yep. The PS3 version will be superior. He even said the 360 version will look worse due to compression and the 360 version will need to ship on AT LEAST 2 discs.

cahill3419d ago

Carmack is a die hard x360 fanboy

he would come up with ways to make x360 version better or both versions equal

as for MS adamancy would only lead to decreased sales. MS should see that the price cut of 20gig x360 didnt have any impact. (ofcourse baring FAKECHARTZ)

MS should include a Blu ray player . Otherwise x360 sales will deplete even further.

being arrogant is never a good idea in the era of global competition. MS should realize that they might come 3rd by the end of this year. By including a Blu ray player in x360 MS can convince atleast some more people to go neutral and buy both consoles

stubborn-ness and anger lead only to disaster

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The Lazy One3419d ago

Yea.. that's why he's putting more time into the PS3 version to make it on par with the 360/PC version. Carmack has a much bigger issue with the PS3's architecture than any beef he has with M$. The biggest difference is the M$ one is a problem that's easy to solve, where the PS3 problem is one he can't work around (if he wants to release on PS3).

The only thing holding Rage back on the 360 are the royalties on the DVD. Considering the popularity of Rage, M$ will probably scratch the royalties and maybe even pay extra to make sure the 360 version is the version carmack wanted it to be.

MNicholas3419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

which is why he can't be blamed for regularly bashing the PS3, the xbox is kind of like his baby and he wants it to succeed. It's human nature and if we were in his shoes we'd all do the same.

Therefore, for Carmack to concede something like this is quite significant. He's not the only one. Rockstar was the first to suggest that making GTA V run on the 360 would be a real problem.

The lack of a hard-drive is a serious problem. The 12x CAV type (Constant Angular Velocity) DVD drive in the Xbox360 has an average read speed of about 9mbs, or about the same as the Blu-Ray drive in the PS3. While the PS3 can transfer data from the Blu-Ray drive and the hard-drive simultaneously, the 360 cannot due to the specification created by Microsoft. The result is that the PS3 can move far more data from storage into processing.

The low data transfer capability (a kind of bandwidth restriction) means that only relatively monochromatic games like Gears of War/Unreal which restrict the color palette to reduce texture storage requirements are able to use large textures. This also means that games with massive full color textures are impossible.

Having said that, the PS3, while less restricted, is not at all perfect in this regard, with significantly less bandwidth than the uber gaming rigs available today. This is one of the reasons that games like MGS4 are also somewhat monochromatic. A full color texture requires three times the storage space and bandwidth as an equally detailed monochrome texture. In otherwords, a completely grey scale game can have three times the texture detail of a full color game. This is why Uncharted is always ranked so high by many who understand graphics. It has some amazing textures despite being full color. Surely they must be using CELL to compress textures with minimal loss. As for MGS4, certain stages have utterly mind-blowing graphics with apparently flawless textures, lighting and shadows. By reducing the color range they were able to increase the texture detail even more than Uncharted.

cahill3419d ago

thanks for your comments
and bubbles

:)

games4fun3419d ago

you give carmack way too much credit, he has praised the 360 as easiest to program for and also admitted it was possible to make a superior ps3 version.

but that doesnt mean he will, at best expect his 2nd id5 game to be awesome on the ps3 meaning he will have a hard time at first whether or not he is a good programmer.

Also he said possible meaning to him it might not have been worth it because he is making a multiplatform game.

Now if he was told to make a exclusive game for the 360 and another for the ps3 the ps3 would win be he already has shown he doesnt have that luxury.

Unless of course he wants to make the id5 standard like UR engine then he may purposfully spend a little more time on the ps3(like epic) to make sure everyone wants to use his engine

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GameDev3419d ago

has shown the world how blind hate can wellllll BLIND some people to the fact that Sony is already winning this gen. The highest priced console yet still outselling its closest competitor. Nuff said.

The Lazy One3419d ago

Yea... way to pick and choose his quotes. He consistently says that 360's hardware was a much more realistic approach to the development of games. He continues to say that PS3 development is STILL much more difficult (even after solving many of the problems). Overall, his opinion is that 360 is a better machine, and that the PS3 could edge it out under some restrictive circumstances given an enormous budget and a long development time.

I repeat. The only thing in any way holding back the 360 version hardware or software wise is the DVD problem, which will probably end in M$ waiving the fee for him eliminating the problem. As it stands right now, the 360 pre-compression version and the PC version are practically identical.

games4fun3419d ago

thank you for responding to me politely, most users would just debubble/ disagree and go on their merry way.

i did not realize all the things that carmack has said i only read the orginal article this article is citing. If his tuned has indeed changed i can understand your enthusiasm, also i agree its been awhile since carmack did anything worth writing about.

i will also completely agree with your phrase of what a years difference can do i was here on this site a year ago and i can remember the wall that sony was constantly being pushed up against in the media and in general for a lack of vision most people didnt understand. I remember when i had to argue how silly it was of people to think that hd-dvd would somehow win the format war, people still disagreed even though the list of supporting studios for blu-ray was staggering to say the least. Sony slowly imo keeps showing why there early decisions are a great value to the gamer in general aside from the price which people never want to pay no matter what the product offers.

titntin3419d ago

Almost everything you write concerning colour palettes is utterly, utterly wrong - which is a shame as the rest of the info you give is correct and you've written it well.

All game engines on both machines use 24 bit colour space textures. the data throughput required to process and output the textures is exactly the same, wheather the texture is colourful or not.

Thats an absolute varifiable fact - I am graphic digital artist and I've been making games for 16 years, and every single game this gen uses 24 bit textures.
To find reduced colour palette game engines you have to go back to the 16 bit and 8 bit days, or look at engines made for mobile phones (though most of these are using 24 bit textures these days too).

Modern games with a monochromatic look are that way by design choice, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with data rates at all. You could make every single texture in GEARS full of bright primary colours and contrast and it would not affecxt the data rate of the engine one jot.

In all modern game engines, if your textures are chocking your data path, you have to reduce the resolution, not the colour depth...

godofthunder103419d ago

The 360 still doesn't need a br player in it.The truth is that the 360 will have less then 15 games that needs more then 2 disc at the end of 09 and that's counting the ones since the launch of the 360.Out of the 15 games the average person might buy 1 of them.

I want one person to honestly say that they would spend an extra $300 when the 360 launch to have a br drive in it when you knew that they will have less then 15 games that needs more then 1 disc at the end of 09 and probaly 2010 and out of the 15 you might buy one of them. I'll admitt that the 360 will need a br drive by 2011.then it would have been out 6 years and it would be time for a new system with a br.

I forgoten the name of the engine that they just about finished but it was the forth installment of it and they said that it will have to be used on the next gen systems because it want work with the systems that's out now.Unlike the times of the atari and nintendo,techonolgy involves a lot quicker now then back then.Take a computer for exsample,you could buy the most powerful system that they make to day and a year or 2 later you have to replace hardware in it to keep up with the technolgy and to be able to play all the new programes that's comeing out like games.

Sony said that the ps3 would be out 10 or more years and they are right but they will have a ps4 before 10 years because they want beable to keep up with just downloading software to it,they will have to change the hardware to,hell they are already working on it.

Rock Bottom3419d ago

Many people says the 360 storage problem would go away soon! I simply can't see that, assume MS did what every one is thinking and allowed hd installation, then what about those who bought arcade version? Those who bought it cause they were promised such thing will never happen, this will be another problem for MS, and bigger one at that, I bet we'll be seeing a lot of retards suing MS for it.

Winter47th3419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

Yeah harry, way to go you show'em now buddy ;)

Darkiewonder, that's terrible thinking, give some of your consumers the shaft to increase the quality of the game slightly for others? HDD installs mainly eliminates Stream-Loading, such as texture building on the fly and pop-ops, it has nothing to do with heavy compression.

Believe me, if HDD installs were the answer to increase the quality of Rage, Carmack would be the first one to use it even optionally, or the first to say this's the solution and let everybody know.

Simply put, the 360 adopted a Last-Gen format, now's the time for developers to start thinking of decreasing the quality of their games on the platform, and for Microsoft to start spreading BS about Digital-Format is the way of the future giving everyone's blessed with a 10+ MB connection.

boodybandit3419d ago

Carmack - what has he produced lately?

I think this every time I read people hanging on his every word like he is the messiah of programmers. There was no bigger Carmack fan then myself back in my PC gaming days. Some of his titles sucked my life away. But other than gaming engines what has this guy produced the past few years that is a top tier title?

I don't doubt the mans genius but I feel some people give this guy way too much credit. How does his opinion differ than any of the other top devs in the gaming industry?

beavis4play3419d ago

i'm very interested in rage but i don't get why people continue to hang on everything carmack says. he really hasn't done anything excitingly new in quite a while. he just seems to always be talking "in theory" and "hypotheticals". but rage may get id back on the map.

MNicholas3419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

@ titntin,

I appreciate the manner in which you disagreed (refreshingly civilized!) however I must in turn disagree with you.

It is true that artists create 24-bit textures for all games but an efficient game engine minimizes those textures. This is one of the reason UE3 is so effective. It minimizes textures so well that even high resolution textures as used in Gears of War can be streamed directly from the DVD. The more monochromatic the game the more it benefits from UE3's behind the scenes hokey pokey.

All you need is 256 steps (0 to 255). A color image consists of three components (Red, Green, Blue) and each component requires 8-bits each. Therefore a color image requires 8+8+8=24bits. A grey-scale image has, in effect, only one color and therefore requires only 8 bits.

So while 8-bit color textures are terrible and outdated 8-bit monochrome can look fantastic, particularly if you have a smart game engine like UE3.

I'm sure you know all this stuff already but I included it for the benefit of anyone who might be interested in what we're talking about. I've attached an 8-bit monochromatic image as an example.

dcbronco3419d ago

He was kinda busy teaching himself rocketry and building a lunar lander for use by NASA. So he hasn't had as much time for gaming. He also has a kid now and anyone who has one knows what that entails. But on topic, I don't see this as a problem. There are very few games that need more than one DVD. That will start to change in the next few years, but for now DVD is fine. MS will wave the extra fees so that won't be a issue. By the time this become a real problem in 2011, where more titles will need more space, the next generation will be out. At that point, every system will have hard drives and the size of those drives will be so large all game will be played off those drives. Or MS could buy the rights to HD DVD or the 42 GB DVD technology. MS will never go Blu-ray.

potenquatro3419d ago

read the article. It's not. This is all about money. For obvious reasons, they don't want to pay more royalties for more discs. That's all. As soon as MS gives them a rebate, problem solved. It has nothing to do with it's ability to run this game properly.

titntin3419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

Your understanding is fatally flawed and very wrong.

Its interesting that you talk about UT3 engine as I've developed 2 titles using this engine and know the technical art pipeline for this engine well.
ALL texture data used for for texture mapping is 24 bit and is rendered as such. The code is optimized to work with 24 bit data and nothing else. The engine has to use 24 bit texture data for normal maps in addition to the actual texture, as the RGB values are used to define the tangent space normals of the polys they are mapped to.The only place you will find any monochromatic 8 bit textures are for other channel data, like the alpha channel, basic ambient occlusion maps etc.

The above is true for every single next gen engine used on any games machine at the moment, not just the UT3 engine. I know this for fact, and so does every developer or artist that works in the industry. If you wish to dispute this, please site a source ANYWHERE that would back up what you say. You can't, because it doesn't exist because you are very wrong.

Talking about 'reducing colours to reduce data throughput' is the kind of talk of the armchair dabbler and shows an incredibly naive understanding of data paths and game engine code. If you are genuinely interested in how a game is made, I'd suggest you do a bit more research and learn a bit more about games engines before you peddle more complete mis-truths on the net.

you might want to start with a look at
http://www.guerrilla-games....
which is a brief overview of the KZ2 methodology and rendering pipeline - one of the more technically impressive engines currently developed.. You will note that, like any other game, the texture data path uses a full 24 bit structure despite the fact the art team have chosen a more 'monochromatic' look for their style.

Muted colour palettes are a design choice and have no effect whatsoever on data throughput - FACT.

MNicholas3419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

and it's easily demonstrated.

In prior posts I used the term 8-bit as tool to to describe the fact that monochromatic textures simply carry far less per pixel information and hence have far less storage and bandwidth requirements due to the fact that they compress to a third of the size.

As you know, data is always stored and transmitted in compressed form even in games published on Blu-Ray.

Here's an example from an image I have and I suggest you give it a try as well on your computer.

I have two 24 bit bitmaps of the same resolution. One is full color while the other is monochrome. Because they are uncompressed bitmaps there is no savings realized from being monochrome.

Full color bitmap: 3.6MB
Monochrome bitmap: 3.6MB

However, games (even on Blu-Ray) and console hardware use compressed textures. So once these images are compressed using the same algorithm:

Full color compressed: 2.04MB
Monochrome compressed: 0.66MB

So, as I said in an earlier post, technically speaking, the artists produce 24-bit textures and the hardware renders with 24-bit textures, but the actual real world storage and bandwidth requirements are only 1/3rd for monochrome textures because, as all game hardware use compressed textures, it's effectively an 8-bit texture.

Therefore, going monochrome is not just an "artistic" choice, but one that has very real and significant consequences for performance.

titntin3419d ago

I tried to be nice - god help me I even tried to reason and educate you, but its quite obvious you are convinced by your own ignorance and wish to continue to revel in it.

You do not know what you are talking about. Equating the bandwidth of streaming a data stream from the source disc, with the data bandwidth in a software rendering engine? How thick are you? Its not even close to be the same thing!

Anyone with even a modicum of real technical knowledge will plainly see you are desperately confused and have no idea what you are talking about. I've been a career games artist and animator for 16 years and have helped develop art pipelines on just about every system for companies such as MS, Sony, and E. A. to name the bigger ones. Far from having a lack of understanding,I'm paid by these companies precisely because I know what I'm doing and how a game engine and data pipeline works. Whilst that doesn't give me a hot line to the ultimate truth, it does mena I know what I'm talking about and can spot a bullshitter from miles away...
I shall not waste any more time trying to enlighten you as its plain you would prefer to remain hopelessly ignorant.

MNicholas3419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

don't mean *&^*% on this board.

I've provided multiple easy to follow examples to demonstrate my points and all you've said is "hey, all the big companies pay me big bucks to make games so i'm right and you're wrong".

Unless you can provide concrete evidence to back up your claim that full color textures do not use more storage and bandwidth than monochrome textures as they move from from storage (game-disc) through to rendering (gpu) people could easily assume that you're just blowing smoke.

Simply insulting people and frantically claiming repeatedly that you're a highly sought after game developer who just happens to be spending a workday posting on N4G is just a recipe for embarrassing yourself.

titntin3419d ago

Whatever - I've no need to prove myself to the bulk of people on this site who have seen my long membership and posting history, and know I talk the truth. I'm also not the only developer who spend time on this site and I've had some more enlightened conversations with others via PM. As I'm in-between contracts I have tons of time at the moment!

Until you ignored self evident truths, I was simply nice to you and was trying to help you understand why your assertions are demonstrably wrong.

If you fail to see that the rendering engine code on these machines performs its calculations on a full 24 bit of data, then you you cannot understand how game engines work. That the data can be compressed to be very much smaller on a disc doesn't matter in the slightest - as it enters the GPU for processing by the engine code it is 24 bits of '0' and '1's and that is a simple fact. How that data is stored, how it is compressed, weather its uncompressed as it enters memory storage or decompressed on the fly as it enters the GPU registers is irrelevant. The register holding the texture data for the GPU to do the calculations on, is holding 24 bits to describe each texture colour.

Anyhow - I've wasted far to much time on you and can comfortably add you to my ignore list along with a bunch of sad fanboy muppets that live there too. Not only do you not know what you are talking about, but you insist on sticking with your ignorance and are obviously unable to absorb any facts you are told or even acknowledge them.

Don't bother to reply, you are now filtered from my N4G experience and good riddance.

Rice3419d ago

FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT i got 30 bucks on whoever of the two post next...

antoinetm3419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

i think he means that despite images being monochromatic the requirements for the engine is that you need to save them as 24bits images. That means that the color theme has no influence on the size of the image.

Although taking advantage of monochromatic compression could have real benefits if done properly.

(or maybe im just as lost but that was an interesting read :)

edit: @1.31 did you win?

Rice3419d ago

huh, im waiting till tintin and mnicholas fight again...and who ever of the two post next i will put 30 bucks on that person..

MNicholas3419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

You wrote:

"How that data is stored, how it is compressed, weather its uncompressed as it enters memory storage or decompressed on the fly as it enters the GPU registers is irrelevant."

And you expect people to believe you're a game developer?

I'll make it simple.

1) All game consoles (even Wii) use compressed textures.
2) Since all games use compression, monochrome textures only consume 1/3rd of the storage space and bandwidth of full color textures (in effect, 8 bit textures).
3) This is equivalent to increasing texture storage capacity and texture bandwidth by 3x, or increasing texture resolution by 3x.

In other words, Color range vs Detail in textures is a visual trade-off made possible by texture compression (which is a given). If you choose to limit color range, you can use larger textures which will give your graphics a lot more detail like Gears or MGS4. If you wanted to maintain full color but had limited space you could limit the resolution of the textures or use extra compression, which results in reduced detail (ie., it gets blurrier).

Carmack would love to fit Rage on 1 DVD. He's made it clear that he's not limited by processing power but by the actual size of the textures as one would measure in Megabytes. If Rage used only monochrome textures he just might be able to fit it all on 1 DVD. However, rather than deviate from the art style of the PC and PS3 versions by changing the color scheme, he's planning on using extra compression to keep it to two discs rather than the three needed for full fidelity, which essentially trades some detail to maintain the existing full color range while reducing storage requirements.

I'm sure you're aware that game development is all about making the right trade-offs. Carmack feels that this is the right trade-off for this game.

I think I've reached my limit for responses to this post so I doubt I'll be able to post again. But again, if you want to make a point, please provide evidence not insults and grandiose claims.

MNicholas3419d ago

Yes, as I mentioned before, the artists produce 24-bit textures, the GPU processes 24-bit textures and when uncompressed they have the same space and bandwidth requirement but since textures are compressed, a 24-bit monochrome texture shrinks down to 1/3rd of the space and bandwidth of a 24-bit full color texture because monochrome 24-bit textures are like 8-bit monochrome textures in terms of per pixel information.

Rice3419d ago

ding, ding, ding mnicholas is the winnner!!!

titntin3419d ago

I think I see whats happened here.

You are purely referring to texture storage and the bandwidth required to stream textures from a disc.

I had a similar conversation in the last week with someone suggesting that games such as Gears and MGS were monochromatic because the rendering engine couldn't shift about full colour images.
I've been mistakenly assuming this was the same argument, however your constant referral to space on disc has made me re-read your posts and realize you are not talking about engine rendering capacity at all. If you read my posts with that information in mind, you will see that I'm referring to the internal rendering bandwidth of a games engine, and couldn't understand why you continued to talk about the storage issues - which are obviously a separate issue.

The mistake is mine - everything I said is completely true, but I did completely misinterpret what you were arguing.

Yes, quite obviously less colours in a texture = better compression ratio means you can store more on a disc and stream more textures off per second (or higher res versions). Thats completely true.
It doesn't affect the ability of the engine to perform the lighting calculations on those textures, as it does that on a 24 bit pipe - but I can now see you were never arguing this.

Having had the conversation once already, I made a poor assumption as to what you were arguing - all the more stupid given that the subject matter of the thread is clearly about storage issues and not rendering bandwidth.

My apologies and my humble pie to eat. It was me who interpreted what you were arguing wrong - and now I feel a prat. Though every technical detail I argued was completely correct, it wasn't always relevant to the point you were trying to make.

As for me being a dev , you can choose not to believe me if you'd like, I guess it doesn't matter. But if you'd like proof, you are welcome to PM me (I prefer to keep identity reasonably private) and I'll photo the two placks I have hanging next to me as I type this with my Bullfrog games on them, and I guess I can photograph payslips from more recent contracts too, and ones going back to Psygnosis before we were taken over by Sony - I guess I owe you the time if you really want it.

Rice3419d ago

oh wats this, tintin with a underdawg comeback...and its a tie...both players tied with 3...

antoinetm3418d ago

Drama + happy ending. \o/

+ Show (37) more repliesLast reply 3418d ago
mirroredderorrim3419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

Microsoft has their hands in alot of studios, they better please THEM because they know who they will go to if they don't. And while I know from Carmacks words, that he prefers 360, due to it's ease of use and power out of the box, I bet he will be singing a new tune after he gets his hands deep into the PS3 and molests it, producing games that will kill us because they look that good.

Chandresh Patel3419d ago

I think Kojima has already achieved all you have said.

MNicholas3419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

is to pay companies to make games for the 360 that those companies otherwise never would. This is why despite the 360 having a very low installed base and low consumer interest in japan, companies continue to make 360 games for the japanese market.

It might be a smart strategy too as 360 seems to have done a bit better of late. What's more, Microsoft is the only company with the cash to continuously buy software titles.

toughNAME3419d ago

Sh!t might go down in the future. But right now the best console of this gen is undebatable.

AmericanPsycho233419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

Comments like that just leave you open to get OWNED!!!

@Bombibomb-That gave me a good laugh before I go to bed. Bubbles

MikeGdaGod3419d ago

i'm getting another 360 soon (no i'm not buying it myself, it's a gift for my graduation on Sep4th) but i won't have these issues.

i'm buying all multi-plats on ps3 and using the 360 only for their exclusives. that should save me from running into these types of issues.

SmokingMonkey3419d ago

the 60 gb PS3 plays the most GAMES out of any console ever made......you know GAMES! and it's the only console to hook up to a portable gaming machine the PSP.

PS2 PSP PS3 or as i like to call them; The Untouchables

RememberThe3573419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

Oh sh*t! Congrats my man. You get bubbles. lol

On topic: I own 360 and PS3 and although I prefer my PS3 I think they're is no clear cut "better console". I think they're both being used well by Sony and MS respectively. But I know thats just me and the haters will hate.

EDIT: @SmokingMonkey: Damn thats a good point! And the untouchables thing was classic you gotta coin that sh*t.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 3419d ago
Viktor E3419d ago

Microsoft will have already executed their Profitless Game Division

thereapersson3419d ago

You guys are complete fools

KBDuB3419d ago (Edited 3419d ago )

Not fools. Fool will do just fine. Those 11 disagrees you got.. Yea, they all belong to Viktor E.