Supermassive Games Comments on Sony’s Marketing Push for Until Dawn

Speaking to Supermassive Games’ Executive Producer Pete Samuels, PSLS asked him what his thoughts were on Sony’s marketing push for Until Dawn, and whether they felt it wasn’t being marketed as heavily as it should have been for an exclusive first-party title.

[DragonDDark]

"If a game is quite different to what’s come before, it must be difficult to know exactly what to do, who to aim the marketing at, and what the message should be."
Exactly.

[someOnecalled]

It's a video game. I would understand if it was a sports game but then that would easy to market. How about market it to gamers. Is this the excuse for vita and everything sony makes because sony marketing sucks. It better than before tho. I only saw a vita commercial a month after I brought one... ONLY one time. Psr is selling itself and gamers gonna find games to play but showing at least a trailer could get sales from people that wouldn't have tried it.

Congratulations on the game's success.

[Palitera]

"How about market it to gamers" is so ridiculously simplistic. Not simple, simplistic, because there are a billion variables to be taken into account depending on the type of gamer they would be aiming towards and when you are spending millions on advertisement it is not simple at all.

[Masterofwiiu3ds]

I'd have marketed it towards the horror movie crowd. I mean, it's basically a 10 hour long interactive horror movie. Just show some clips from the game, a couple jump scares.

Then again, marketing costs money, and if you're unsure about how you want to spend your money, I can see it being something that's difficult to decide on.

But in all honesty, I've never bought a game because of marketing. I buy them because I either know about them and want them, or I see positive reviews. And sometimes, friends tell me about a game. Commercials and ads? Not so much.

[3-4-5]

Games aren't difficult to market, it's just that the people hired into the position of being in charge of the marketing aren't always the most creative people and usually just copy what the rest of the industry is doing.

[Neonridr]

or the people hired to do this sort of stuff aren't gamers and thus have no clue how to market something they don't know anything about.. :P

[3-4-5]

or that.

[Intranquill]

I don't agree. Marketing it like the interactive game it is would make the most sense. A movie trailer, complete with the movie voice guy and actors involved with scenes to show case the graphics and story.

It's not that difficult.

[Ravenor]

And when Joe Blow sports fan gets to it after he saw the ad on Monday Night Football or whatever? "I thought this was going to be like *Insert game*" Right or wrong, console games generally come with an expectation with gameplay attached. Especially when involving those who don't play games full time. I studied Marketing and Ads guys, it's really not easy with games like Until Dawn. Cut a great trailer, easy. Having the trailer be anything close to a representation of what you do in the game? Difficult.

[Intranquill]

@Ravenor

How would marketing Until Dawn be any different than any other game? Every gaming commercial either shows the cut scenes of the game or have real life actors and set pieces (like Halo 5 has going currently)

There's literally no difference. And wow, you studied marketing. Respond with that bit of info when you've actually been in the job of marketing. Studying something doesn't make you an expert or instantly make your opinion better.

Not to mention, Joe Blow buying the game completed their mission. Not their concern he didn't do a simple 5 minute google search as to how the game played, nor do they care once they made the sell. Stupid consumers are always going to exist for every demographic and market.

[Bathyj]

I believe if this game had been overhyped it would have bombed. People love to tell you somethings crap when youve been going on and on how good it is. Positive reviews and good word of mouth sold this game, not 30 second commercials, and I'm fine with that.

The game sold well, the proof is in the pudding. No one knows if it would have sold better if it had a marketing blitz. Its more likely it would have just lined the haters up to complain about another movie game you only watch and dont play. Can you believe some people actually say this about Uncharted and The Last of Us simply because they have a lot of cinematics?

[Gazondaily]

"Can you believe some people actually say this about Uncharted and The Last of Us simply because they have a lot of cinematics?"

The difference there though is that they aren't rubbish games. Cinematics or not, games in this genre have been received well so saying that you don't know if extra marketing might not have yielded better sales is a really odd thing to say.

[Bathyj]

No, they're fantastic games. Yet people who want to downplay them will still call them movies instead of games.

I'm saying it's better to under promise and over deliver. Overhype can kill a game. Watchdogs comes to mind. It had its problems but I enjoyed it and I think the barrage of hate came from it's over promised graphics that didn't deliver.

Until Dawn was always going to be a niche title. Not everyone is going to like it. A big CoD style media blitz wouldn't have done it any good at all. I'm not saying Sony couldn't have done better by it. I'm just saying not everything has to be this summer's blockbuster.

And I find it kind of insulting to my intelligence to imply that I buy games based on advertising. That I didn't buy it cos they're weren't enough commercials on but I would have had I just seen it at the cinemas our during a football game. I pretty much know what games I'm going to buy a year before they're out. Most gamers probably do. Commercials and even reviews have very little to do with my purchases.

[HarryMasonHerpderp]

I saw a few TV ads for it over here in the UK.
I also saw some of sites advertising the game like IGN.
I even had my girlfriend interested in it from seeing the TV ads and the closest thing to videogames she gets is kim kardashian on mobile unfortunately.

[andibandit]

"No one knows if it would have sold better if it had a marketing blitz."

Seriously?.

[lipton101]

All I need to know is: does this game now have an invert setting? I've been waiting to play it when I heard there was no invert Y. And please keep these responses civil - being inverted is like being a lefty yet nobody ridicules them for something they can't help..

[DragonDDark]

Unfortunately, you can't. But you can use the motion controls instead. They work really well. Or just get used to the controls.
Edit: they added them in the new update :D

[nyckrazy]

Sony screwed up. They need to get step up their marketing for games. You have a Horror game WITH A GROUP OF YOUNGSTERS that features a known actress named hayden penittiere(name spelled wrong but dont care)that couldve easily been promoted on MTV! So that quote about the game being to different is a bunch of BS.It kills me that sony didnt do this! Years of effort poured into this game only to be under promoted. Great job sony.

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

The sales exceeded expectations, so I'm sure Sony will have that in mind for the sequel and market it more.

[Gazondaily]

For the investors?

Is a sequel even confirmed?

[NatureOfLogic_]

Your trolling is just boring now.

[BitbyDeath]

A sequel is confirmed to be in the planning stages.

http://www.playstationlifes...

[Gazondaily]

@Nature

Is it trolling? Giving the company the benefit of the doubt because they can assess the sales? For a company touting support for indies and players in general it has to back it up. I know no company is perfect but come on, recognise a misstep when there is one?

It's a small and understandable one btw. No one should make a mountain out of this because ultimately, Supermassive, whilst regretting the lack of a big marketing push are still happy with some of the ways Sony marketed it.

But dont always give Sony a free pass is what I'm saying. It's not a big issue anyway.

[BiggerBoss]

@septic. Why do they even need a free pass? The game sold well and hopefully the sequel will be pushed more by Sony. You act like Sony did some heinous act by not making a bunch of Until Dawn commercials or something

[Gazondaily]

"You act like Sony did some heinous act by not making a bunch of Until Dawn commercials or something"

Can someone on this site please tell me how on earth what I have said makes it sounds like some heinous act?? When in almost every post I have qualified it.

Take a look:

"It's a small and understandable one btw. No one should make a mountain out of this"

"It's not a big issue anyway."

"It's easy to point fingers with the benefit of hindsight"

"strictly speaking Sony should have shown strong support but yeah, I can understand why it went below their radar"

So please tell me how I have made this out to be a heinous act? Are you people that averse to the slightest criticism levied against your favourite company??

@Bigger

Care to actually qualify your statement after what I've posted above ?? I've EXPRESSLY stated that it isn't a big deal and youre saying Im regarding it as a heinous act?

I'm not concerned about Sony's marketing ; just discussing the point. For once can people drop the cult mentality?

Never mind. It seems like a pointless exercise with you lot even if it is the most minute of criticisms levied against your favourite company.

[BiggerBoss]

@septic you say not to make a mountain out of a molehill but thats exactly what you're doing. Youre one of the few on here who even care about this "issue". When its literally a non-issue. The game sold well. Why are you so concerned about Sonys marketing?

[LaChance]

Not so sure. As evidence shows, Sony prefers spending their money on exclusive marketing and DLC deals for 3rd party shooters like COD, Destiny and Battlefront.

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

Others does it so why shouldn't Sony, and how is that gonna stop them from marketing their own games?

[rdgneoz3]

MS spent $50 mill on GTA 4 DLC (not to mention all the previous marketing deals for COD, AC, Madden, and such). I'd say they started the trend. With PS4 destroying everything in sales, many companies are jumping ship to the bigger fish.

[BattleAxe]

These marketing practices are similar to what Insomniac received with the Resistance series. To this day I still believe that there was a major falling out between Sony and Insomniac, which I believe had something to do with the lack of marketing for the Resistance series. With the tacked-on multiplayer and abrupt ending in Resistance 3, it's clear that something happened.

[Rimeskeem]

How hard was it to but that much BS in a single sentence?

[fulnattybrah]

What are the sales figures?

[G20WLY]

Apparently sales exceeded all expectation and they're now talking about a sequel.

[MasterCornholio]

From what they said pretty good. Not COD good but good for a niche game.

[gangsta_red]

Sony knows that shooters/racers is what gets people's attention. This is why Sony, like any other company will push those and also well known established IP's rather than new games with no brand recognition.

But IMO, a horror themed game would have been something Sony should have pushed. Especially with the recent success of the horror genre here in the states. American Horror Story, Scream and now Scream Queens(?) plus others are very popular and Sony could have promoted this game right along side those shows.

The sequel I am sure Sony will get behind NOW that it has exceeded their expectations. It is funny though...Bloodborn and Until Dawn are the two games that got the most critical success and the least push from Sony and The Order and Driveclub received a lot of negative criticisms and the biggest push from Sony.

"...it must be difficult to know exactly what to do, who to aim the marketing at, and what the message should be."

I disagree, aim it at young teens and adults who love horror movies. How difficult is that?

[Gazondaily]

"I disagree, aim it at young teens and adults who love horror movies. How difficult is that?"

Precisely. We hear a lot about 'variety' yet Sony pushed the likes of Uncharted Collection over a new IP when it came to marketing it. Tbh, like you, I see why they did it but still, its harsh on Supermassive. Sony should have supported them far more strongly.

But if Supermassive are satisfied then that's the most important thing. Sony should deffo take that on board next time. It's easy to point fingers with the benefit of hindsight.

[Genuine-User]

Uncharted is the most popular Action Adventure franchise; heavy marketing is a given.

I don't think its harsh on Supermassive. A studio that previously worked on the likes of Wonderbook and a Doctor Who game had a lot to prove.

Until Dawn was their big break to be honest, further made possible with Sony's funding and tech.

[TFJWM]

I don't know what market you guys are in but in NYC Until Dawn was pretty much the only Video game ad I saw on TV for the month before its release.

[Gazondaily]

But Sony should have had more faith in their product as opposed to their past.

I do get where you're coming from and agree but when a studio under your wing delivers, it is important that you do their project justice as opposed to writing them off based on their previous shortcomings.

Like I said, strictly speaking Sony should have shown strong support but yeah, I can understand why it went below their radar. Still no excuse in the grand scheme of things.

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

Yeah. Varied catalog of games =/= marketing campaign.

[Genuine-User]

If my memory serves me right, Until Dawn was advertised on Eurogamer, Gamespot, IGN and even Sky.

There was a live action trailer on PlayStation's official YouTube Channel.

And finally the famous on-stage demonstration of Until Dawn at PSX last year.

[Gazondaily]

@XiKura
Yes mate we know this all too clearly.

@Genuine

Haven't seen any ads here on Sky or those sites you mentioned. It was marketed well and I bet you many non core gamers won't know what you're on about if you mention Until Dawn.

[Genuine-User]

Do you use an adblock by any chance?

The ads I saw were bundled with a PS4 I think.

Until Dawn was the most popular video game on YouTube in August.

[monkeyDzoro]

So you are comparing what is still considered at this point in time a 'niche' genre, to one of their most popular title from one of the most talented developers ATM.
A collection of three of their best games and system sellers, that a good chunk of people who own a PS4 didn't have the possibility to enjoy on PS3.
Even if Sony did make advertisement for that IP but not at the level of a system seller because the devs themselves were surprised by the public reception.

Idk if you were not able to process all this OR that you could NOT refrain your desire to downplay Sony's commitment for variety. Idk why you QUOTED that. But again, w/ the support they gave to that title by bringing it back from PS3 and showing it at ALL major gaming events was enough IMO. Here in France, there were some ads on TV. Not like Bloodborne though which had much more support.

Now people are criticizing Sony for "not advetising enough". And those people are the same who were saying the game was prone to fail... Talk about hypocrisy.
Now they know there's a SURE fanbase for this genre, so the next similar game might have more support than this one.

Quit with the BS.

[Sevir]

Sony had faith in the product, that's why it was released and production was green lit in the first place.

Every region has a marketing budget And they allocate that budget accordingly. Games in established franchises and popular genres will get big pushes, while unknown quantities will get less. They'll have to prove themselves. Sony has shown all the time that they take risk with niche games they published. And when these games go on to sell well they get bigger funding. Quantic Dream and Media Molecule are proof, as is Team Ico.

Supermassive had to prove themselves. They were putting out a risky product that had been delayed, reworked and had iffy mixed previews from critics. Their previous titles were poorly received games and a failed product Sony thought would ignite the casuals who enjoyed Harry potter.

So plenty was on the line. Especially when the game went over budget and was completely changed from its original premise as being a PS3 move only game.

The budget increase and extra 3 years of Dev time was all the money Sony could reasonably spend on a game from a developer with a spotty track record and a tepid response from curious critics who have literally bashed a 3rd person shooter for having qtes 6 months earlier.

So Sony is smart, put the product out and watch how it performs then push it harder now that it's surprised the consumers and critics, and reward the developers with a contract to develop a sequel and make this into an established franchise.

[Kaneki-Ken]

@Septic When Until Dawn was released it became the most popular thing on YouTube, Many well known Youtubers play it and it started trend that everyone follow and bought the game. Everything i go to youtube i always see Until Dawn videos ,this trend lasted for a couple of weeks. Sony didn't even need to advertise more than it already have since Pewdiepie and others youtuber gave it push enough to get a lot of people attention. Sorry for bad grammar.

[GameDev1]

Nope Blood Borne definitely did not get the least push from Sony at all, you are very wrong there.

Sony and Yoshida had much confidence in Blood Borne and From software and marketed a lot that you wouldnt go to any game forum without seeing talk about Blood borne, it had so many tv adverts in Europe and on Youtube, OPM and Edge magazine covers

Until Dawn is a totally different very new genre to what Bloodborne is

And even with Driveclub negative criticsims it sold over 2 million so was a critical success. So a marketing push for that was right from Sony also

[Gazondaily]

"And even with Driveclub negative criticsims it sold over 2 million so was a critical success."

What? It was a critical success even though it was received negatively?

Bloodborne didnt get a marketing push? But you're talking about it getting marketed on tv and mags etc?

[gangsta_red]

Yes you saw the word of mouth for Bloodborne just like we did with Until Dawn.

Game criticism forums and magazines but hardly any TV ads. At least here in the U.S. there were hardly any, way different from the amount I saw for The Order and Driveclub.

"Until Dawn is a totally different very new genre to what Bloodborne is "

New genre? No it's not, Heavy Rain, Beyond Two Souls, and any other 3rd person game heavy on narrative that also appear on Sony's console have been around forever. Why is this all of a sudden a new genre? And why does this somehow excuse Sony for not pushing the game?

[magiciandude]

"Until Dawn is a totally different very new genre to what Bloodborne is"

Wouldn't that be why you should push your marketing a little harder so it can have a better chance of increased mindshare? This excuse is nonsense and gets nothing done. Also it's not a new genre...

[GameDev1]

@Septic

My mistake, I meant it was a financial success, but if I remember reviews also changed for Drive club after a while so it also got so many good reviews after its bad launch.

And Blood Borne got pushed a lot, Many ads over here in Ireland especially for its launch trailer, it also had a gameplay trailer after that before its launch trailer, big ads of Blood borne in Gamestops here. Youtube videos had ads of Bloodborne before the actual video. Sony allowed magazines to get early previews of Blood Borne, very early for a Sony game (The Order did not even get this) therefore pushing the game

Blood Borne was clearly pushed well.

I would say Until Dawn was marketed very well in Europe too as there was loads of tv ads forit here too, it didnt get youtube ads though. but I guess thats the difference between SCEA and SCEE

[freshslicepizza]

let's face facts here, sony is not great at marketing but lucky for them the ps4 markets itself. so unless you are naughty dog don't expect a ton of marketing support.

[DigitalRaptor]

Where are all these inaccuracies coming from?

PS4 was extremely well advertised before and during the launch. Even now, the advertising is great, and nothing weird like previous generations. With their adverts for features like Share Play - it's great stuff: https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Heavy Rain was heavily advertised as a niche adventure game. DriveClub was a cornerstone of the early anticipated PS4 lineup and as such was heavily promoted. The Order has a strong push. Following it, Bloodborne also had a strong push. inFamous games had a pretty strong push in the past. It's not as clear cut as you're trying to paint it.

Until Dawn actually was pretty well advertised, so I've no idea where this perception of Sony sending it out to die came from. They made a fair few TV ads, that were actually shown and online ads all across gaming sites. I mean were people expecting billboards for a new IP? It just so happens that word of mouth was excellent marketing tool for the game too.
-------

@ magiciandude
@ Septic

I guess those television ads, that were made SPECIFICALLY for television weren't shown on television were they? I saw them past the watershed several times over the course of a few days. Septic, you previously tell me you didn't see them, but who cares... They were shown, and you cannot change that. They existed and were shown on TV. Maybe you don't watch late night TV, but I do stay up past my bed time mate. There were also plenty of online ads including banners, backdrops and popup ads all across gaming sites across the web, including persistent social media push, and a companion mobile app.

It depends what your view of "well advertised" is I guess, but that constitutes a well planned effort. I'm not saying it's a stellar effort. For a new IP, from an unproven studio with some degree of uncertainty, it was a fine job.
--------

Gangsta, gangsta, gangsta..... deary.

Nowhere in that article did Shuhei agree that Until Dawn had a "lack of marketing". That is the PlayStation Lifestyle author's choice of words. He explains the difference in how budgets between different sized projects vary. As projects vary in size or scope, they will be allocated different budgets, and Until Dawn received the budget it was always going to receive).

Nowhere does he deny the TV ads that were shown (cause they were). Nowhere does he rebuke the plentiful online ads, social media push or companion app. This isn't the first time you've tried and failed to quote somebody in regards to a game on this platform. All you did there was quote an N4G article and clearly not even read it yourself, which is pathetic. That would be the best place to start.

I mean look at what you tried here with me previously regarding with Ueda's words on The Last Guardian ( http://n4g.com/news/1792270... ), despite Yoshida saying something that directly conflicts with it and proves my view to be right ( http://n4g.com/news/1796181... )

Re: New IP in The Order. well shoot me down soldier, fair point.

[magiciandude]

"Until Dawn actually was pretty well advertised"

No it wasn't.

[Gazondaily]

"Until Dawn actually was pretty well advertised"

Flippin eck, no it wasn't mate. Sony and even Supermassive have admitted it. I haven't seen a single ad for this iirc.

[gangsta_red]

@Digital

"Until Dawn actually was pretty well advertised"

So an article from Yoshida explaining the LACK of advertising for Until Dawn.

http://n4g.com/news/1794777...

And now this article from Supermassive themselves explaining the LACK of marketing for their game and then you say it was pretty well advertised? Are you kidding?

"I mean were people expecting billboards for a new IP?"

Why not, we got billboards here in SF for The Order.

I swear, your defense is so strong that you are even willing to ignore the actual stories that coming right out the very mouths of the people involved.

[GameDev1]

@Gangsta Red

Of course The Order got billboards, Its budget was bigger, it has lots of guns (which usually helps a game) and it pushed new generation graphics which allows you to gain audience.

You cant compare that to Until Dawn

And I have never seen people care so much about the marketing of a game at the end of the day it worked out for Supermassive and Sony, isnt that what should really matter??

[gangsta_red]

Oh Digital..

Which is why I said Yoshida "explaining" the lack of advertising for the game.

Of course his explanations are the usual PR spin that is pretty much obvious to everyone else but you. He was asked why there was so little of a push and he just went on to point the finger at marketing in other regions. Only you would take that as a "he never said...", instead of actually realizing that there was a lack of marketing.

So again two articles directly from the source saying Sony lacked support for Until Dawn. And yet here you are saying that the game was well advertised.

What's hilarious though is I'm here actually saying Sony should have pushed the game because it was fantastic and I would have loved to have seen this game get the level of success an Uncharted would have. And you are here making excuses for Sony's lack of or actually just completely blind and saying everything was fine.

@GameDev1

So basically Sony is willing to market and give a bigger budget for a soul-less, generic shooter like The Order above a great, fun, different type of game like Until Dawn.

I think that is the problem a lot of us are talking about. The fact that these big devs and publishers are pushing the same stuff on us when there is an obvious market for something new or different that can be just as successful and popular if pushed the same way a Destiny, CoD or Uncharted was.

[someOnecalled]

dont even try i forgot what website i was on Sony always sucked in market throughout all sectors of they company. the ps4 basically sells itself and now people forgot how much they suck at marketing. last gen ps fanboys hate sony marketing, but this gen theyre a little... a LITTLE better. they alway did taco bell ads. gamers dong focu on one tv show or genre with tv. like someone above said they could have focused on horror tv shows audience to show ads but they didnt. but they make excuse sony suck in marketing like alway with everthing they have. MS suck with execution they seem like the half @$$ everything. but they both bring new things to the table.

PS fanboys will never say that sony isnt perfect their godly overlords. most of the changes they made that they are great in now is do to the competition(xbox fanboys raging last gen).

[DigitalRaptor]

.
SPARE ME the weak as sin excuses and your hypocrisy that is now well and truly exposed:

You were defending Sunset Overdrive to say that it didn't have to sell gangbusters to be a successful new IP when people were saying that it sold poorly, and I saw about as many Sunset Overdrive adverts, both on telly and online, as Until Dawn. It wasn't THAT well advertised.

Christopher even put a note in this article, saying exactly what I said. Yoshida never said or admitted there was a "lack" and yet you ran with it and said there was, even though there wasn't based on measurable output. Who's defending the marketing, really? I tell you what Sony did for the game, factually. You and your friends lie and warp what an executive said about it for obvious reasons. Maybe one of the Supermassive team think's they could have done a better job - of course they could have. That is not the point though. There wasn't a "lack of marketing". End of.

Spare me your constant attempt to bend the truth and save face because of how wrong you are. It's actually quite admirable to accept when you're wrong, but you never will.

And is the game fantastic? Did you play it, and where is your proof you played it? Just like I'm still waiting on your proof that you played TLOU, and actually owned a PS3 and own a PS4.

And if you think that tagging an Uncharted marketing budget will make a choice-driven narrative game like this as big as Uncharted... wow. The Order got a bigger push as a new IP and it didn't do as well, so where's your logic? Sony's marketing pushed Heavy Rain farily strongly last-gen, and it sold well, and you weren't there complaining. I doubt you even had interest in or played the game, but it would never have been as big as Uncharted - even with a huge marketing push. You're just here to stir things.
-------

And in response to your reply to GameDev1... yes a business like Sony is going to do what makes sense to their business and put more money into marketing a game that they've shouldered more of a financial risk with, to ensure that it's successful. It's business 101. Microsoft does the same thing, and you don't go into articles calling them out on what makes sense for their business.

You make just as many excuse for MS (think to indie parity clause), so I don't know why you're acting like you care so much for these devs because of "overlord" Sony, when you do the same. At this point though, I'm not surprised - you just want to call out Sony fans for defending Sony, when MS fans do the exact same thing for their favoured company just as often and you NEVER call them out for it.

[_-EDMIX-_]

The issue with pushing marketing for this title just like stated by the team, has to do with its not really a normal genre based horror. Its hard to define what it actually is.

For them to market what the title is a horror might lend many to believe its something its not ie a traditional horror with items, skill tree etc.

Look at how people reacted to The Order and that team and its marketing never promised it be anything of what many folks where expecting.

What is a bought sale of someone that felt it falsely advertised? That same person might very much flame the publisher for marketing it to be something it wasn't.

It again is hard to market. If you have a trailer for Until Dawn...its extremely hard to actually tell someone its not what you think it is.

As Until Dawn the trailer doesn't just tell you 100% note for note what its aiming for.

Example.
Until Dawn's trailer
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Evil Within's Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Now forget you've played them..

Imagine if you don't know what either title entails. Both are horror games. How can you convey Until Dawn is not like Evil Within in 90 seconds? The only game that can really describe it really is Heavy Rain. Its not a easy genre to just describe in seconds as many have assumptions on what they "think" it is. Marketing's job is to convey what you will be playing. With no real history of such a IP, they don't have much to work with. They are correct to leave it up to gamers to describe what it is vs market the crap out of it and have many walking into it assuming its like one game and its actually not.

Proper marketing can indeed sell a game better, but they are aiming for long time sales, not here is a sale of a game that you assumed it was one thing, and not and know your going to flame the developer because of how it was marketed and never buy the series again. I don't know who got this title with an assumption of it being like Evil Within, but that is because it was not marketed deeply and if you heard of it, you know what it is likely lol.

You and I can understand what many of theses subgenres are, that is hard to convey to the general public in seconds.

[gangsta_red]

That Until Dawn trailer was great, it conveyed a Saw like horror, slasher type of game. I would be all over it...I was over it!

And any editing wizard could use their magic and make any product look fantastic when presenting it to the public. You don't need to understand something in those 60 to 90 seconds of advertising, you just need to get people curious and asking what the hell was that all about. Sony was just unwilling to put the time, money and effort to do so because it was a new IP and didn't have explosions and neck breaking action that people are used to.

But to me this isn't an excuse because the game could have been marketed to the young teenage "MTV" crowd where horror is very popular especially with the latest craze of these PG-13 "horror" movies and shows.

Even if Sony would have gave it the much needed big marketing push, their gamble would have paid off even more because the game was successful. So a lot of people did understand it and didn't mind it wasn't a game like The Evil Within and thank gawd because that game sucked(IMO).

I do understand these sub type genres but I still say Sony should have pushed this one in particular. I would have definitely pushed this more than an Uncharted Collection which doesn't need any push at all. I mean Sony didn't even have this game in their montage of "Play the Best Games on PS4" commercial.

http://n4g.com/news/1791204...

At least show it there!

[uth11]

I don't know, I was excited for Until Dawn from the first trailer I saw. I expected it to be an interactive horror-movie type game, and that's more or less what it delivered.

I don't understand the argument that the game concept is hard to explain at all. It seems really simple to me. You play an interactive teen horror movie, with many possible outcomes. And as for who the audience is: many people like teen/horror/slasher/supernatur al movies. It's for them. Lot's of people discovered the game through watching streams of it. It obviously had a ready audience for it.

So it seems like a really straightforward genre to me. Maybe it's just one that's been ignored in video games until now.

[iceman06]

It can be difficult if it's not in the budget. Let's be real here. NOBODY thought that this game would have as much success as it did. Sure, many thought it would be good. Many thought that it had a chance. But, after all of the obtuse hatred with QTE's and the less than stellar reception of QD's last game and The Order, was it really a surprise for Sony not to know? So, in the end, Sony played it safe with limited marketing. I'm sure that IF there is a next one, Sony will market the hell out of it.
That being said, I think that they are missing out on a golden opportunity to market it around the Halloween scary movie rush. But, maybe it's just not in the budget.

[triple_c]

"Bloodborn and Until Dawn are the two games that got the most critical success and the least push from Sony"

What are you talking about? Before Bloodborne launched I use to see a bunch of ads about it on the USA Network during RAW commercials and other shows and channels.. There were a bunch of adverts for Bloodborne on TV.

@DigitalRaptor
"This isn't the first time you've tried and failed to quote somebody"

"I mean look at what you tried here with me previously regarding with Ueda's words on The Last Guardian ( http://n4g.com/news/1792270... ), despite Yoshida saying something that directly conflicts with it and proves my view to be right ( http://n4g.com/news/1796181... "

Gangsta did the same thing to me not to long ago on another article claiming I said that the PS4 was a lot more powerful than the Xbox One when I didn't say that. All I said was that it was more powerful. I never said it was a lot more powerful. Here have a gander.. http://n4g.com/news/1794633...

I don't know if it's due to a lack of comprehension but Gangsta loves twisting and putting words in peoples mouths..

[generic-user-name]

Imagine you're Sony

You have Ready at Dawn making The Order exclusively for you. Ready at Dawn being a critically acclaimed studio, you've seen the amazing visuals they're putting out, you're pretty confident about them. The genre is the popular 'third person shooter'.

Also

You have Super Massive Games making Until Dawn exclusively for you. Super Massive aren't exactly a proven studio, they've made you Wonderbook and some trivial DLC for other titles. They've had Until Dawn in development for years now, at first they were supposed to have it out on PS3 as a PS Move game. Then they scrap it and redo it for PS4, the game is lucky to survive the process. The genre is the niche 'choose you're own adventure teen slasher'.

Marketing is expensive, you want a guarantee that you'll see those marketing costs recuperated.

How can you do differently?

[maniacmayhem]

"Ready at Dawn being a critically acclaimed studio"

When did this happen? They were making games for the Vita.

Sony sits down and reviews each game on one hand you have The Order, no multiplayer, no branching paths, no co-op, two boss battles that are exactly the same and gameplay that if you play the first chapter you pretty much played the whole game.

Or Until Dawn, a horror narrative, with A/B list star power, branching story lines with a butterfly effect for marketing to go crazy with and huge multiple endings.

Sony couldn't figure out which was the better game during their review?

"Marketing is expensive, you want a guarantee that you'll see those marketing costs recuperated."

And that gamble didn't pay off as The Order wasn't a hit and Until Dawn was. I don't know why people are arguing about this. Sony should have pushed Until Dawn as new IP that is also very good game the same way they are now pushing timed DLC for Destiny.

[TwoForce]

@maniacmayhem Let me tell you this. The Order 1886 maybe not the best game, but it's still a good game. Some people enjoy playing the game, myself included. When I realized that not everyone make a perfect game, but they do give the game have some potentials. I don't like being arrogant to other industries, even they made mistakes. I want to give them a second chance to success, but I guess people like you are afraid to give people a second chance. Until Dawn was still unknown back in 2012, but it was received very well from PGX to this day. Supermassive Game had prove themselves to be great studio. If you think the way you want other succes, then you wrong. There are good days and bad days for example like that. Succes or fail are two common words that defines a lot of things.

[isarai]

I get why they wouldn't, it's VERY hard to accurately portray just what kind of experience this game is, especially when it's a new IP with no previous games to draw comparison to. So it would have been really unwise to spend so much trying to do so only to have the most likely result of miscommunication only to end up hurting sales while simultaneously increasing the budget used on the game. Fortunately the game was good, and no matter how absent marketing is for a game, if it's good then word will spread on it's own.

[Jalva]

What are you talking about? There have been plenty of games like Until Dawn in recent years, The Walking Dead game? It only went on to win GOTY, Heavy Rain? It sold like hotcakes, Beyond: Two Souls? It had huge A-list actors in it... All of which were huge financial successes, don't try to make excuses for Sony not marketing the game enough, it's a movie game or an "interactive experience" as they're otherwise known, it's nothing new to the gaming world, I think the game is fantastic but Sony should have had more confidence in its ability to turn a profit, Resistance 3 anyone? Luckily in Until Dawn's case the game sold through word of mouth because it was a genuinely good game.

[GameDev1]

There are many interactives like Until Dawn but none of them were under the purely comedy type horror genre and none of them had the butterfly effect branching paths Until Dawn had, so it was a very different game to those ones so you can see why it was hard for Sony to see a mass audience taking to it

Until Dawn isnt really like other interactive genres, has more complex mechanics

[WilliamUsher]

@GameDev1

What are you talking about? Night Trap fit the comedy horror genre and also had branching paths and that was way back in the 1990s on the Sega CD.

He just mentioned Heavy Rain and Indigo Prophecy and Beyond: Two Souls, all of which had branching paths as well.

There was nothing "new" in Until Dawn in terms of being an interactive movie experience. That doesn't detract from the quality of the game or the performances, just that this whole argument stating that "it hasn't been done before" is bollocks.

Lots of games have had branching narratives, most notably True Crime Streets of L.A., and that was more than a decade old.

Also the mechanics aren't really complex at all. It's about on par to other interactive movie experiences, once again dating back to the 1990s with games like Phantasmagoria.

Also check out the game Cyberia (the first one) it also featured quick-time events, walking around, shooting segments and similar mechanics.

It's easier to just say that Sony probably didn't think it was worth marketing Until Dawn.

It's good that the game sold well enough that Supermassive is happy about it.

[Jalva]

@GameDev1

So what you're saying is if a game makes improvements over other similar games in its field then it becomes part of a completely different genre?

Also the "butterfly effect" is nothing more than a fancy PR name given to branching paths created through player choice, which is exactly what other movie games like Heavy Rain have done before it, sure Until Dawn goes more into depth than Heavy Rain did but that doesn't suddenly make it a completely different type of game, just an improvement over other games in the same genre.

More complex mechanics? You mean like walking and interacting with the environment through button prompts? Truly groundbreaking stuff!

"so you can see why it was hard for Sony to see a mass audience taking to it"

Well then you'd think Sony would've learned to have more confidence in these types of games by now since they also published Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls which both went on to become huge financial successes and made them a lot of money.

[GameDev1]

@WillamUsher and GameDev1

I see you guys havent played or even know about Until Dawn butterfly effect

Until Dawn definitely had interactive gameplay like Heavenly Souls, Beyond, Tell tale games but again its butterfly effect did not just affect the paths you took or the way the story moved but also your relationship with the characters which would move the story, there was also collectibles(totems) which changed the story also, this is definitely NOT like other genres.

Also the teenage comedy horror for Until Dawn has ONLY been done in movies and those are really cheesy movies which are not set out to do well in the box office

Hence my point is proven how Until Dawn is different and why Sony would have been sceptical in pushing it compared to their bigger titles

@Jalva

Heavy Rain was a success, Beyond two souls was not a success critically or money wise

@WillamUsher

"It's easier to just say that Sony probably didn't think it was worth marketing Until Dawn."

I dont know what point you are trying to make cause this is proven. Sony definitely did not think it was worth it marketing Until Dawn cause of its niche genre but have said they will push it more now its a success

@Jalva

compared to Heavy Rain, Beyond was definitely was not a financial success and even for Sony and Quantic Drea,s, and Beyond was meant to be a spiritual successor

[Jalva]

@GameDev1

Beyond: Two Souls wasn't a success critically and I never claimed it was, however it was a financial success, http://www.gamechup.com/bey...

[_-EDMIX-_]

Heavy Rain did well for Sony but i wouldn't say it "sold like hotcakes" also that was 5 years ago, how can they market it to be like Heavy Rain when the public has no idea what they game might be considering how long its been?

The genre exist yes, but its hard to describe it with a title like this as calling it a interactive story, might put people off. Calling it a twist with horror elements might also put people off at not seeing it as real horror.

This title was best left to gamers telling other gamers what it was like and letting Youtube market it. Marketing needs to happen fast, grab your attention and stay with you.

That is very, very hard to do with a title like Until Dawn as even with Heavy Rain, Beyond Two Souls etc it very much isn't an easy task, at least with those games you do way more and they are not linked to other genres like Until Dawn is.

I think it was a correct move to not market it has to confuse or have gamers going into it assuming what it could be.

They did a good job explaining it at trade shows and that is really for me where they sold me on this game. E3 is where they sold me when they explained what it was, not trailer, no commercial etc.

@Jalva- "Well then you'd think Sony would've learned to have more confidence in these types of games by now"???

All games are treated different by fans bud. Beyond Two Souls didn't do as well as Heavy Rain, or look at Order's sales.

They don't know how well it can or can't do purely based on the genre.

Do you not have Horror films that you like or hate? It being of said genre doesn't guarantee its success, that just doesn't make any sense.

Yes Heavy Rain did well for Sony, it didn't do gangbusters or set the world on fire. They can't just go in and throw marketing money at any IP just based on its genre or how well the last title did in the same genre.

That is like expecting Cabin In The Woods to do well because Scream did lol. Some may like 1 game, some may not like the other. They are indeed near the same genre, doesn't mean they will get the same reception.

[Rimeskeem]

The difference is that all those games were made by critically acclaimed studios that proved themselves. This was Supermassives first big game alone and Sony had no idea how they were gonna do. Now that Supermassive proved they make quality I am sure Sony will market them more.

[michaelpb]

I can understand Sony's lack of marketing for Until Dawn, it's a new IP that's difficult to put into a palatable box for a broad audience with its branching narrative and atypical game design.

[Darkfist]

wasnt that the same thing with demon souls?

[uth11]

And yet it outside expectations...

Sony should give it a Halloween nudge

[WeAreLegion]

I think they marketed it the best they could to the right audience. This game was always going to be a bit of a bet for Sony. I think the way it was marketed and in the mediums they used to market were excellent choices and Sony should be commended for those decisions. Sony has screwed up marketing MANY times, but this was not one of those times.

That being said, they should bundle it with SOMA and get a Halloween bundle out quickly.

[GTgamer]

Exactlyyyyyyyy but of course people gonna like they care about how Sony marketed the game they just seen an opportunity to attack Sony :/
End of the day it was new ip and studio who had allot to prove and Sony and the studio acknowledged the marketing so let's move on. heavy rain wasn't marketed heavy at the start but look how much beyond two Souls got marketed so I expect the same scenario with supermassive.

[OB1Biker]

Yea they did a LOT of trailers and many original ways to advertise this game and I can t remember any game that was talked so much about in gaming sites this Summer. I would say if anything I was surprised games like planetside 2 were not pushed that much but Until Dawn was very well advertised to gamers with even special trailers for Valentine day or interactive youtube trailers.
Funny to see some obvious people pretending to defend the game. A few of them probably didn't even play it and were ready to murder the game if it had average reception.

[kenwonobi]

Halloween bundle is an excellent idea. Halloween themed PS4.

[Immorals]

This game could have had an epic viral mini series, sort of like Alan wake had back then.

I'm sure whatever this studio release next, Sony will be pushing hard!

[PizzaSteve]

Sony could have done better with marketing. I don't even remember seeing a commercial for Until Dawn but I do see commercials for Guitar Hero with Lenny Kravitz and James Franco. I guess Sony want to market more games with bigger mass appeal.

[mogwaii]

Ive seen a fair bit of marketing for this game here in aus, tv adverts, youtube adverts, on the side of buses ect.

[AstroCyborg]

typical PR responce this game should've gotten a bigger push especially this month with halloween around the corner

[TwoForce]

Nope, that because Sony wasn't sure the game received well or not. Same goes industries, you don't know if the game is good or not. Just like Heavy Rain, it was the best of PS3 games. Better think twice, pal.

[James-GAMES]

I plan to play this game for the first time on Halloween.

[TeamLeaptrade]

When I first heard of it, it had that indie feeling going for it, maybe that's why Sony didn't push it so much. But after seeing this game in action, it's clear Sony should have marketed this much more. I'm glad it sold decently though. I think it would have sold even better is Sony released TV spots for it. If they did, sorry, never saw a TV spot for the game. Maybe they will advertise it like crazy this month.

[sizeofyou]

I guess it depends on your 'commercial' viewing. I saw far more TV adverts for Until Dawn (guessing 10 times) than I did for Uncharted (2 times). But I'm not a typical 'prime time' TV viewer (hate MOST of the garbage on Friday/Saturday/Sunday evening here in UK!!) which I guess is where the Uncharted target audience GENERALLY is (older children/adults seeking humorous 'blockbuster')?
However, I completed and enjoyed all Uncharteds on PS3 and not played Until Dawn yet. So marketing isn't always accurate...it's about reaching the majority - and maximising sales.

[kotaku77]

PS4 has the best games... just not the best PR :)

[MilkMan]

Sony is a funny company. I think they are of the mind of "if you build it (and build it well) they will come" Just like the movie Field of Dreams.
The did it with The Order, they did it with Until Dawn and so forth. I think they cherry pick what gets "the big push" and the rest just gets by on their own (with a little help from Sony) based solely on what ability.

I feel that IF the title succeeds then the sequel to these new IP"s get massive backing, the next go around because they have proven themselves. In all honesty it is a good model.

Survival of the fittest.

[zarbor]

Looking at these comments, its clearly many have no idea what in the world they are talking about and don't understand how business works.

When you look at the games a company should market, its based on potential sales. No one waits until the game is released to decide if it would be marketed heavily or lightly.

Only dopey gamers would believe that Until Dawn is game that would generate huge sales and warrant huge marketing dollar in advance. Just dumb. Marketing isn't free and it isn't cheap. It would be way better for them not to market it heavily and it sell well than the opposite. It ain't that hard people. Especially for this type of game that generally don't do huge numbers. If not for the install based and the timing of the release, doubt it would have done as well.

[kenwonobi]

At the end of the day the article says "it went on to still sell very well anyways". Hence I think it's a success story and the headline is kinda besides the point. Yes it could have sold more. As it stands right now? I think this is a new franchise now.Halloween will be another solid sales push of the title and so will Christmas. So it turned out extremely successful.

[TheLoCoRaven]

I'm getting the game in the mail today. Grabbed it the other day for $40 on Amazon. Just in time for Halloween.

[cyber_daemonx]

Sony were being sensible really. Why spend a fortune on a new ip if it potentially could have been a flop? As it happens it exceeded expectations, without a heavy marketing push anyhow. This pretty much guarantees a sequel which will probably get better marketing next time.

Just common sense tbh.

[kenwonobi]

I think a sequel is all but a guarantee. The marketing push will be that of a AAA title. It'll probably sell very well.

[Orionsangel]

Two of the actors (Hayden Panettiere & Rami Malek) were on a lot of talk shows the week the game came out, but no mention of the game. Not even from Fallon. Not even a little tiny bit of a mention. They were there to promote something on TV and nothing else. Kinda sad if you ask me.

[bligmerk]

Yoshida was just being honest. Their marketing didn't know how to market such a different title. Got it on the first discount on Amazon and it has now been discounted again. The graphics should sell themselves, it was innovative to have interactive hi-def heads of the characters stat page (wonder how many people sped up a long capture and saw the characters seem to be whispering something?). It is supposed to have sold well, although it sounds like the dev thought it could have been a bigger opening. The game is really different. Running some commercials before Halloween would probably move a few more copies.

Also, think about games like this with PS VR.

[XanderZane]

Whether it was marketed well or not. The game got decent reviews and was exclusive on a console with a huge user base. So chances were good that it was going to sell fairly well. There was also a lot of hype after the E3 among gamers who were interested in the game. I'm just wondering if it sold as well as Heavy Rain and Beyond 2 Souls. Those games weren't marketed that great either, but still sold over a million copies.

[Detox024]

Never saw a commercial for it.

[bligmerk]

One thing about game prices and first party. For Sony, once they pay off the development, localizing, and packaging, the rest is pure gravy. So, seeing a discount on a Sony first party game happen quickly means they paid off the investment cost and the discount price is all profit to them.

This is a different story for third party. A fast drop in prices not long after release usually indicates poor sales and more volume is needed to make or break.

The game almost seems like a rendered storyboard for a movie like a jazzed up Cabin in the Woods. Seems like running more commercials right now in the US would be a no brainer.