Rare dev: 'I don't think 360 has reached its limit'

Speaking to at the Develop conference in Brighton last week, Nick Burton, a senior software engineer at Rare, has assured Xbox 360 gamers that there's plenty more to come from the console.

"You never can push them as far as they can go. The reality of the peak performance of the console is yes, you could look to a generation beyond where we are now and think, yeah, I could use that power. But the reality is in 360 and the PS3 and the latest generation PC graphics, the amount of power in the GPUs is such that you're more bound by your creativity and the aesthetic you're going for than you're really bound by polygon pushing power," said Burton. "You're probably actually more bound maybe by art authoring and the amount of data throughput that, just the amount of memory you'd need, but I don't think 360 has reached its limit."

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Zhuk3757d ago

Xbox 360 games look better than PS3 games, they also run better than their PS3 counterparts, even after significant optimizations for the PS3s architecture the games still look and run inferior. Therefore, the Xbox 360 is more powerful based on the simple evidence that games look and play better on it than the PS3.

Technically, we know that the Xbox 360s GPU is more powerful than the PS3s. Also, the Xbox 360 uses unified shaders and memory and this allows the video to have access to the whole 512mb of RAM on the system , unlike the PS3 which only allows the GPU to use an insufficient 256mb. Also the PS3's firmware uses far more memory than the Xbox 360s dashboard, which does far more than the XMB for less. This allows more memory to be used for gaming than rather for non gaming processes. Then we must look at the infamous CELL processor, which has been proven that it is an inferior processor for games because of the nature of its much touted SPEs, whose capabilities are limited. Compared to the Xbox 360s 3core processor and its multithreaded architecture, the Xbox 360s processor simply put is far superior for gaming applications.

What we can deduce from these facts is that the Xbox 360 is the most powerful gaming console ever created.

What makes it really simple is to just compare the games, which system runs the games better and which system has the best looking games.

The answer is the Xbox 360.

Kratos Spartan3757d ago

and the fanboys fear my name...

DROIDS SUCK COCK3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )




NO_PUDding3757d ago

Angry cus you'll need to buy a PS3 soon?

juuken3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )


Okaaaay, let me say that again.


Five times!


PimpHandStrong3757d ago

What makes it really simple is to just compare the games, which system runs the games better and which system has the best looking games.


i have read ppl think these games look and run better on the PS3

MLB The Show

we can deduce that these games look better then anything on the 360

Ali_The_Brit3757d ago

ah hush now you sad pathetic fanboy, go on, into the corner and play with your 360

Pain3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

when u make Ugly kiddy games for XBOX ...sure sky's the limit of there Fugtastic developer ability.

Make a Real game then talk.

and @Zhuk. do u even know what those console specs even mean? or u just copy paste what u thinks
looks bigger?

cuz if u did its PS3 hardware >>Xbox2 hardware. games speak for them selves and we not talking crappy xbox 2 ports.

abcdog10003757d ago

the thing is that developers are bearly unlock the true potental of the ps3. the xbox 360 was out for a full year before the ps3 so developers real got the hang of creating games for it, but therejust learning howto use the cell processor. the game that used of the ps3's power was uncharted which only used 30% and still looked better than any game on the 360. now that developers are understanding the cell they are devoping games for the ps3 first.


Solid_Snake6663757d ago

good thing hes not a fanboy

KBDuB3757d ago

Okay.. first of all, don't mention Oblivion as looking better on the PS3. It came out like 8 months after the 360 version..

And, Uncharted looks great, but I think the 360 has some games that look better. But, I will agree only about MGS4..

Egzekutor3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

Youre talking about those crappy games that come out from devs that dont have a clue how to code properly on the PS3. Take a look at those skilled developers who develop for PS3 exclusively..

Can you remind me which 2 games will look worse on 360 because of the POOR DVD disc ??

One of them is DOOM4 , the other is ... find out for yourself.

I agree with that DEV... you can push XBOX 360 even further but im sorry you wont have the right disc to push it on, because its DVD..
You could do that if you made a 5 minute game..

XBOX 360 games look and run better ?

I wouldnt be soo sure about that.. take a look at B:BC.

You are comparing your crap XBOX 360 exclusives to PS3 ?

Resistance 2
Killzone 2
Heavy Rain 3
M.A.G ??

You will see graphicly similar games from EA etc soon enough .

Please b1tch, stop lying to yourself , I know your defending you crap old gen consoles by all means but if youre going to right that kind of bu1lsh1t, then do it in your mind because it makes me sick.
360 already going down to 199, why ? Because its loosing pretty badly, they will soon give it out for free just to get more people.

Cheap sh1t. Thats all i have to say.

JBaby3433757d ago

I seriously am cracking up. I love your comments zhuk. Please don't ever leave N4G. I needed that. I love the one down below too with all the AAA games.

Too funny. If no one has ever read zhuk's comments before read them. Seriously they are great. They never let you down.

JasonPC360PS3Wii3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

All these droids in the denial boat, only they don't know it has a hole in it.

Yemeni Xrats Killer3757d ago

i think xrat 3 red light have reach its limits with the release of bioshock!! and no just that but also the console limits, its dieing so fast, and with my spray i will make sure there is no memories of 360 and no one will talk about it

Darkwolf3757d ago

Ive said it before and i'll say it again..ZHUK YOU ARE A [email protected]
the shiit you dribble is just beyond comprehension..we all know the 360 hit its limit when the first game for it was released..

Mr Marbles3757d ago

has more brains in his left pinky than all of the idiot Sony leg humpers on this entire site combined.

LoVeRSaMa3756d ago

The Denial Boat Sails faster then the Fail Boat tbh.

+ Show (15) more repliesLast reply 3756d ago
Chandresh Patel3757d ago

FACT=The Playstation 3 is harder to develop for than the Xbox 360.

FACT=The Xbox 360 DISC SPACE is a GROWING PROBLEM for Developers.

If you think Lost Odyssey being on 3 Discs isn't a clear indication of a DISC LIMIT being reached,wait until you hear how many Discs FF13 will be shipping on for the Xbox 360.

Chandresh Patel3757d ago

I couldn't even accurately tell you how many Discs it was on because I forgot about 1.

Gam713757d ago

What does that have to do with the article?

Did you even read it or did you see the word limit and thought it was about disk space?

Read it next time, they're talking about hardware limits not disk space.

Masko3757d ago Show
Larry Fine3757d ago

used to be harder to develop for

marinelife93757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

Sounds like he isn't sure if the 360 has reached it's limit or not.
Must be getting pretty close to the max.

DeadIIIRed3757d ago

If this guy is telling the truth, then why haven't I seen anything on the 360 in a year that raises the bar on graphics? C'mon, 360 owners should have something....anything to be more excited about than obtaining a TIMED Ps3 exclusive.

power of Green 3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

The disc space is a growing problem but some how the PS3's architecture etc is not?. lol

Gam713757d ago

Fable 2 GoW2 etc.

Stop looking through those sony tinted glasses. There are plenty to be excited about.

You all have to drop this mistaken belief that 360 owners are somehow jealous of the ps3.

It's like me saying all ps3 owners have to look forward to is a 1 year pld 360 game.

shazam3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

both of those statements are opinion statements

@1.9 POGins

the ps3 architecture is a shrinking problem in my opinion

Montrealien3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

One disc games is very convenient, I like it. Do I care if a game needs to be on a few discs sometimes? absolutely not.

wallace10003757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

But is disc space really a problem when they can put a game on multiple discs? I have said it before and i will say it again, Baldur's Gate was a fantastic game and that was on 5 discs. Then again i am far from lazy so i have no problem changing discs :-)

Kaneda3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

disc space is the problem for developers to push 360 to the limit!

Above me.. Just imagine all games that comes out for 360 requires you to switch discs everytime you play. That will be hella annoying. Maybe a few games will be okay. But all 360 games.. that will be stupid! but the games that only on a single disc. It will not take full advantage of the 360. So, this generation 360 will not even run to its full potential..

power of Green 3757d ago

That is because you're a PS3 fan and you benefit from the lowest common denominator multi platform development method.

PS2 owners will be dazzled by the PS3 visuals, they don't know any better(including exclusives).

Devs are concerend about PS3's (G)raphics (P)rocessing (U)nit and System RAM, the Video Card in PS3 doesn't help either.

wallace10003757d ago

Honestly switching discs wouldn't bother me. I am used to it from computer games. I remember when sim city 2000 was on floppy discs and i had to switch those out :-P.

DeadIIIRed3757d ago

Having their players get up and change disks isn't the concern of developers, its the cost of publishing a game on more than one disk and the loss of quality by cramming everything on the least amount of disks to save money.

Rob0g0rilla3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

But being limited to only 7gbs for a game is a bigger problem. Games get bigger and developers will want to save money by using lesser discs which could lower the quality of the game.

aaquib53757d ago

Gears of War 2 put 360 past its limit. MGS4 hasn't even touched the PS3's midpoint.

RememberThe3573757d ago

...1up has a pretty good interview with John Carmack of id. In the interview he talks about how MS gets royalties for each DVD, or something like that, so it coast more than just the disc to put a game on more than one disc. You guys should watch it, the guy knows his sh*t.

vdesai3757d ago

Look I dont think you have any idea of what you are saying. First of all developrs dont care about he GPU btw you mentiond it twice, Video card is the GPU and there is no problem with it at all the only difficulty is the architecture itself its a derivative of PPC, with a mix of a CellFS (file system) which has never been used to create games. What developers really worry about is the SPEs because most developers dont know how too multithread properly let alone multithreading on 7 SPEs. Its a shrinking problem because knowledge can be expanded, but existing hardware is not. Now im assuming you didn't know this, but if you did you belong in the Open Zone. Yes contrary too popular belief the PS3 has 512mb of memory just like the 360 except its split into two pools, 256 for the system, 256 dedicated video memory. Now if you have ever used a computer you know that that can be changed very easily.

Sitdown3757d ago

Hahaha......why did you give us the fact that the ps3 is harder to develop for? Okay...your point is?

Ohhh, and did we forget that the disc space is a null issue......1.)Because it is not difficult to change out disk. 2.)Did Microsoft not say you will have the ability to download to the hdd?

Which then that brings me to the point....if you look at the new dashboard coming, the ability to download to the hdd.....if indeed the 360 has or is reaching its limit......what do we know about its ability to evolve and push its limit further back?

vdesai3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

Ok you still need disk in the drive when you install too the Hard drive and the problem is that not all xbox 360s were shipped with hard drives or very little hard drive space. Remember the shorter the time it takes for you to install the lower the compression ratio. Im assuming Microsoft just went with imaging the disks not compressing it. Now if the games are DVD9s, which are about 8.5GB if you put two thats 17GB now if you do the math you can see this isn't really feasible for the people who bought the cheaper systems.

Also could those who disagreed with my previous comment comment on why they disagreed with me that would give me a chance to carry on a conversation.

PotNoodle3757d ago

People would stop using the 'Xbox 360 will need more disks for this game blah' crap. We have been swapping disks since the ps1 (maybe earlier but i can't remember) so why all of a sudden are we starting to argue this?

Don't take me as some xbox fanboy, because infact i've always prefered my playstations to my xbox's (Owned both xbox's) i'm just a playstation type of guy.

BWS19823757d ago

that it's about costs in a big way. Both consoles have great attributes....but it's very expensive for a publisher/dev to make a 3+ disc package, the royalties, etc...It's very expensive. I don't really know if this has affected games coming to the 360 thus far, as it's not really shown it's in need of a faster paced growth to it's catalogue, so perhaps it's not making a difference, but my point is it's very much about money and a lot less about disc swapping, which many of us are used to.

Anyways, on the topic of the article, which is more about hardware, not media, I tend to agree...I went to the Art Institute outside Chicago, and have a Media Arts/Animation degree (B.F.A.)...artistic design and knowhow as well as finding workarounds can extend the lifespan of something very well, technically. A ceiling is eventually a more pertinent issue as time goes on, but the 360 hasn't hit that ceiling IMO. Although I'll admit that there's been lately a slow increase in graphical showcases, from what I've seen in the pipeline, there's more to come.

godofthunder103756d ago

I'm not a childish fanboy of any gamesole because i'm not going to fight over a stupid thing like that.I will agree that the ps3 is a damn good console and the most dependable one that was ever sold.

The 360 and the ps3 are real damn good systems and the facts prove it not just the ps3.A ps3 fanboy claimed and i QUOTE,I haven't seen anything on the 360 that raises the bar on graphics? C'mon, 360 owners should have something....anything to be more excited about than obtaining a TIMED Ps3 exclusive UNQUOTE.The truth is that this guy is such a big ps3 fanboy that he can't even admit the truth that ps3 fans were excited over some 360 timed exclusives to not just 360 fans like he is claiming and the facts also show that the 360 graphics are getting better all the time.The truth is that the 360 and ps3 graphics are so close that you can't even tell the difference and some times the same game looks better on the ps3 then the 360 and some times it looks better on the 360 then the ps3.

I'm also tired of hearing about that microsoft should have put br in the 360 because now it's out dated because a few games need more then one disc,i can't belive that a person is to damn lazy where they can't even change a disc out.The truth is that microsoft was smart when they didn't put br in the 360.Microsoft was smart enough to know that we really didn't need br for games then and we don't need it now.Microsoft also knew that they needed to keep the 360 price down if they wanted to compete with sony and it worked because after 3 years they are still ahead of sony.

The truth is that about %97 of the games on the 360 or more only need 1 disc.They have about 10 games or less that needs more then 1 disc and the average person might buy one of them,so far i didn't buy any game that needed more then 1 disc because i don't like any of them so far. Just because the 360 might have about 15 games that needs more then 1 disc at the end of 2010 doesn't mean that we should have a br drive in the 360 now and pay an extra $300 just because we don't want to get up and maybe change 1 disc out of the games that they have.

Microsoft knew what they were doing when they didn't put br in the 360 now.The truth is that the 360 would be out at least 5 years before we really need br for games and it might be 1 or 2 years more and they are right.I would like one ps3 fanboy to honestly say that out of the 15 games that we might have at the end of 2010 that they would buy half of them.

We might need a br drive around 2011 for games and the 360 would be out about 6 years and it would be time to put a new system out because they are already talking about new engines that they have comeing out and the consoles that's out now want be able to handle it so they will use it on the next systems that comes out.

Like i said i'm not a childish fanboy but if people from both sides stop acting childish and start admitting the truth instead of acting bias we could have a real debate instead of childish remarks that fanboys post.

The most ridiculious remarks that i've read is where someone posted a remark and said the reason that microsoft don't want to put br in the 360 is because sony want to charge them a lot more to use br then other companies and some articles claimed that sony refused to let microsoft use br.

The truth is that sony needs microsoft more then microsoft needs sony.people need to remember that microsoft is a software company first and sony is a hardware company.Sony uses microsoft programes in almost all their products.Sony uses microsoft programes in their computers,cameras, and other products.Microsoft could hurt sony by stop letting them use their programes but sony can't really hurt microsoft.The reason that microsoft is letting sony use their programes when they are competers is because it's a smart buisness deal for both companies and it will be the same when in a few years microsoft will have to put br in the 360 and sony will let them at the same price as the other companies because it's a smart buisness deal for both companies and it will make a lot of money for both of them.

jmorph93756d ago

is that now everything needs to be installed to the hard drive. For the ps3 it is because of disk access speed, for the xbox it is because of DVD space limitation.

The real problem for the 360 is the 20G hard drive most users own, and the fact you can not upgrade for a reasonable price, or without the hassle of transferring your saved game data. Even 120G sounds a little small for the future.

The ps3's real advantage is larger drive space, ease of upgrade, and not being locked in by a custom drive. The 360 disk drive are over-priced and too small.

P.S. I own a 360 and not a PS3

Kaneda3756d ago (Edited 3756d ago )

Wallace.. I did say a few games are okay.. but if most the games that require you to switch disc that will be annoying.

yeah, PC no longer required to switch disc. Install on the HD. :)

+ Show (25) more repliesLast reply 3756d ago
Omega43757d ago

Art style will always trump technical prowess. Having the most powerful machine doesnt always guarantee the best looking games

Which is why as long as there are creative devs out there the 360 can still produce better looking games than the PS3 even at the end of both their lifecycles.....also having the better GPU helps as well

felidae3757d ago

eehm. ps3 has the best looking games.

thenickel3757d ago

eehm. Stop lieing to yourself. PS3 deoesn't have the best looking games and neither does 360. It's all a matter of opinion so get over yourself.

NO_PUDding3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

No seriously, technically the PS3 has better looking games.

And not only that, the 360 developers have no games that boast great art style. The most impressive art style in the industry is still Shadow of the Colossus, and Team ICo are Sony first party.

The most visually impressive games will always been on the PS3 until the next generation.

thenickel3757d ago

Do us all a favor and shut up seriously...If thats what you believe then fine but don't go around talking like it's a fact just because your in bed with Sony. There is nothing on Sonys platform that looks technically or visually better then anything on 360. Maybe next year or the year after there will be but now nothing.

SL1M DADDY3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

When it comes to reviews, many authors have stated that some of the best looking games are on the PS3. MGS4, Uncharted, SS:HD, and GT5:p all look awesome and have been subject to claim as the best looking console games ever made. I am not saying it’s because of the hardware as that is something we will have to see as time passes but that is just what I have read on the web from some pretty respected review sites and magazines.

Both consoles have their give an take. Take GT5:P and Forza 2 for instance. Both look great but it is common knowledge that GT5:P looks far better than Forza 2 but Forza 2 has damage effects and apeals to a different crowd. It's a give and take and we won't know what console can put out the best graphics for years to come.

PimpHandStrong3757d ago

well Uncharted and MGS4 both look better then anything on the 360

I guess you must mean multi-platform games look better on the 360??! maybe yea? Thats what your saying?

Thats not really true anymore so what are you saying when you say the 360 has better looking games!

you can keep telling yourself the 360 has better looking games but the only game that comes close is Gears of War and thats still the best looking game in 3 years on the 360!

La Chance3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

absolutely ! I totally agree with you art style/design is more important to my eyes than graphics alone.

For instance Jet Set Radio would NEVER have been as memorable and cool if it had lets say super photorealistic graphics that used all the power of the xbox (talking about JSRF).The game just wouldnt have been as good if it had 2x better graphics and dropped that special art design

Then games like Ico for instance werent graphical powerhouses but looked sublime thanks to the art design.Now imagine an Ico with with far better graphics but without that special design it wouldnt have looked that good.

thenickel3757d ago

Once again Pimphandstrong thats your opinion so don't go around preaching it like it's the gospel or something. Some of us and I'm sure many don't find those games on PS3 to be the best looking games ever. They look good but nothing earth shattering just like theres nothing earth shattering on 360 either. You need to get a hold of yourself and your ego because it's hard to take someone serious that always thinks there right.

SuperM3757d ago

You dont have to be a sony fanboy to see that the best looking ps3 games has the edge over the best looking 360 games. Dont get me wrong, Gears of War both looks and plays great. I have it on my pc and it is a very very good game, but it is not as visually impressive as uncharted and MGS4 yet it is the best looking game on the xbox. When it comes to driving games you would have to be crazy thinking anything else then GT5P being the best looking game on the market. And Ratchet and Clank is the best looking platformer. This is not about talking crap on the xbox, this is just about saying it as it is. If the xbox had the best looking games then i would say so. I dont have a problem with that. Neither should any xbox owners have a problem with ps3 exclusives looking slightly better then the xbox games. After all the ps3 is more expensive, so naturally it should have tech with a higher potential performance. Even Gametrailers, known for their biased comparison videos (Assassins Creed and GRID in particular) admited that uncharted was easily the best looking console game when it was released. If you dont believe me just check the review.

Bangladesh3757d ago

Here is a game that looks as good as any ps3 game in existence. And to boot, the 360 version of this game looks better than the ps3 version. Oh, and it's a first generation 360 game.

And I'm not done yet, I've got a couple more vids to show.

Bangladesh3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

I think you idiots knew this one was coming.

edit- Here is a game with nice graphics and a beautiful art style.

Bangladesh3757d ago

Another great looking 360 game.

Bangladesh3757d ago

Where are they Pimphand? Suddenly don't want to talk anymore SuperM? What about you Slim Daddy? Huh, No Pudding anything you want to say?Where are these uber fantastical ps3 games that shame the 360? Here I'll post vids of your ammunition Uncharted and MGS4.

After watching the 360 vids that I posted, are you idiots HONESTLY trying to tell people that the 2 games above couldn't EASILY be done on 360? I'll be waiting on these "uber" ps3 games that you guys keep telling people about, because I KNOW Uncharted and MGS4 aren't them.

vdesai3757d ago

Technically the PS3's GPU is better it runs at 550MHz while the 360's GPU runs at 500MHz. PS3 games do look better no matter what you say what excuse you give it may be a matter of opinion. Don't pay attention to just what you play look around look at the foreground the background and then shading and lighting. But the problem that not all 360s come in full HD capabilities. When you don't include an HDMI port you have too worry about those consumers who didn't get the HDMI port.

Bangladesh3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

Tech jargon means absolutely nothing to me when I can see the end result with my own eyes.

vdesai3757d ago

I was correcting omega64 about the GPU not saying it has any adverse effects, but games look better if you dont feel that way im sorry I havent convinced you im sorry im not paid too do that, wait a second im not paid at all im just stating my opinion. Any how its ok some may prefer a different look then others but technically speaking games are better on the PS3. If you dont care about techno jargon I guess we could just say the PS3 is better then the 360, if you don't like techno jargon then there is no way for you too back any opinion while I do. Im sorry if I hurt your feelings but if you have ever played a game on the PC you know all that matters is the techno jargon. Crysis is the best looking game period, because it requires the best hardware too run.

Bangladesh3757d ago

Fair enough, you can look at a piece of paper and Say the ps3 is technically better. And I'll look at the actual games produced and SEE that the ps3 is not.

vdesai3757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

Maybe if you watch the trailers in HD you may notice the diffrence.





Forza:MS 2:

How did a "glorified demo" trump the full release of Forza makes you wonder dosent it. Maybe if you open your eyes yes the 360 is a decent system maybe the games can be created to match the quality of the PS3 visuals but there are no games that exist currently that surpass or even match the quality of these games. You cant tell how good a game looks by playing it through composite, or by playing a minime flash video. Its like comparing videos of these games on youtube.

Maybe this will jog your memory of how gametrailers likes to fuel things.


Edit: At below don't compare multi-plat ports because they were not coded for the PS3 they are not bug free no multi-plat game looks better on either system. NO MATTER WHAT GAME IT IS. There maybe a difference in sharpness, etc. but no difference in the visual quality. These are statements made by fanboys which are not true at all.

snyper8313757d ago (Edited 3757d ago )

have you people noticed most multi platform games look better on the 360 than ps3 am I right???? Sony fans brag that games like uncharted and gran turismo have graphics the 360 cant match am I right??? Have you wonder how would those games look if they were made on the 360???? exactly the same if not better just like any other port.Please people get over it ps3 and 360 are equal on the graphic side, is not fair comparing gran turismo to forza 2 developers were aiming different goals as you can see forza has a damaging system something gran turismo is lacking have you wonder why??? It takes a lot of hard work implementing it and because of it it takes a hit on the graphics. Sony on the other hand went crazy throwing double the poly count for every car at the cost of excluding a damaging system and lowering shading texture quality on the backgrounds, the results, really beautifull looking cars at high resolution.As far as metal gear solid 4 Konami developer has said the game can be done on the 360 on multi discs ofcourse.My point is ps3 is not what sony is trying to make believe it is,both systems are equal capable of producing amazing graphics get over it fanboys get a life...................

Rog Vader3757d ago

Uncharted is a good looking game, but I agree with Bangladesh. lol it's hard to deny it when the proof is right there.