Forza Has Finally Escaped the Shadow of Gran Turismo

Love it or hate it, the release of a new entry in the Gran Turismo series always feels like an event. In contrast, and try as it may, developer Turn 10's Forza Motorsport franchise for Xbox consoles has never garnered the same level of attention

[Godmars290]

No. Just from the title of this article it hasn't.

Forza is a racer on Xbox brand consoles. The instant you try to insist that its as good as much less better than another racing game on another brand console, don't have the in game content or sales to back up any claim while trying to insist that its better, you're putting it in the shadow of the other racer. Not putting it outside.

Hell, MS have been turning out entries in the series seemingly just to catch up to the number of official GT releases. Not been putting in the effort to match content or improve quality, not that you'd know it by the way fanboys gush.

How about just enjoying the game for the game's own sake? Not that its better than brand's Y racer.

[Gazondaily]

Lol what are you on about? Such a terrible post. You're saying the two titles cannot be compared because
1) sales
2) less content?

Yeah lets forget things that matter such as gameplay?

"How about just enjoying the game for the game's own sake? Not that its better than brand's Y racer."

Lol no don't put this at the end after your little tirade at the start basically doing the same thing?

"Not been putting in the effort to match content or improve quality, not that you'd know it by the way fanboys gush."

What?? Lmao! This is just complete misinformation or pure fanboy 'gush' from you.

Answer me this; the sheer critical acclaim the latest entry got. It didn't come from an effort to increase quality? Really? 450 cars, day and night races, 24 players online and weather plus customisations galore... No?

Just wow... You might as well throw in the 'media bias, Xbox paid for reviews ' point just to add icing on the cake.

[Godmars290]

I'm saying that this is the same GT vs Forza BS that's always happened. Xbox fans praise Forza regardless of any other factors. Features get taken out, put back in, tracks and cars get reduced then increased. Meanwhile gets condemn GT for every and any fault regardless of what's done right.

When the crap over the multi-disc Forza and the install "option" happened, it was largely pointless to argue with Xbox fanboys about because reason went right out the window. Not that such stopped comparisons with Drive Club and the next Forza, since nothing's been announced for GT. There'll likely be two other Forzas out by that time.

Mind you, when DC and Forza's weather effects where compared much if not all argument and comparison's stopped - I wont say why since you all ready know.

[Gazondaily]

"Meanwhile gets condemn GT for every and any fault regardless of what's done right."

How can you honestly say that when you were the one that said this about Forza above:

"Not been putting in the effort to match content or improve quality, not that you'd know it by the way fanboys gush."

Really? If Drivatars, 24 player multiplayer, night races (something the PlayStation contingent ridiculed the previous games for not having), weather snd never done before 3D puddles that have massive gameplay ramifications aren't meaningful improvements, what are??

Again, honestly I would be grateful if you could just answer these two questions:

1. Why do the Forza games score so highly in reviews?
2. In light of your comment about GT getting condemned for what it does right, please name me the new features in that game that are unrecognised.

[yewles1]

"2. In light of your comment about GT getting condemned for what it does right, please name me the new features in that game that are unrecognised."

Curiosity piqued. Apart from the two of you both unwittingly proving the article wrong whether you wanted to/realized it or not, but the question is now what the reaction will be if this question IS answered somehow. I'll give it a shot and just name TWO of the new features GT now has and see how it goes:

1. OFFICIAL MoTec i2 Pro support.
Unlike certain other apps that shall not be named, MoTec provides actual tools to analyze your driving data uploaded to a PC.
http://www.motec.com/gt6/gt...

2. GPS Data Logger.
Having a real drive scanned and then recreated in-game can help with your technique, there's even plans to have celeb drivers have their drive data scanned for future time trial challenges.
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Now WHAT ARE going to be the various reactions to this post (I can practically check them all off right now)? Let's sit back and watch...

[NewMonday]

@Godmars290
"The instant you try to insist that its as good as much less better than another racing game on another brand console, don't have the in game content or sales to back up any claim while trying to insist that its better, you're putting it in the shadow of the other racer"

well said, totally destroys the article and turns it on its head

@Septic

sorry man Forza is only compared in the context of Forza, GT is simply in a different league altogether and is judged based on that, GT is THE game respected and acknowledged by motor-heads, if GT even attempts to de-evolve itself into a casual pleasing sports game it will instantly lose its much larger fanbase. if Forza is enough to give you what you want than good for you.

@yewles1

great point man, proves that GT fans are drivers and actually own cars and know what driving is about, and Forza fans are mostly public commuters who want thrill imitation.

[FlexLuger]

GT was the console sim that got me started on sims way back in the PS1 days. I was loyal to that series until FM2..then FM3 happened and it had already surpassed GT at that point in my eyes. FM4 just cemented its position as the better series for me.

And for me it all lies in one thing. Which one feels most like driving a real car? both do a good job...but forza has a an extra layer of feel. An extra layer of punishment brought on by its tire simulation.

@Godmars290

"When the crap over the multi-disc Forza and the install "option" happened, it was largely pointless to argue with Xbox fanboys about because reason went right out the window."

So are you just gonna ignore the fact that you dont do any disc swapping? so What if you had to install it? is that not the case for most games today. if anything thats MS fault for not atleast going with HD DVD as a default drive in XB1. Its not T10s fault if they make a game that is too big for DVD.

"Not that such stopped comparisons with Drive Club and the next Forza, since nothing's been announced for GT"

Lets be clear..sony fans fired the first shot their. And sony followed up with its ridiculous "forza killer" ad campaign playing into said PS fans 'excitement'. Yet DC has been royally battered by FM5, Fh2 and now FM6 in the areas that count. Sure DC looks better but it means nothing if its the inferior game, overall.

"since nothing's been announced for GT. There'll likely be two other Forzas out by that time. "

Given that T10 tend to improve on every forza (even FM5 sported upgraded car physics, ragrdaless of its launch title status)In dont see the issue. FM6 is an amazing game.

"GT fans are drivers and actually own cars and know what driving is about, and Forza fans are mostly public commuters who want thrill imitation."

You are so full of shit its unreal, new monday. I have done track days at brands, silverstone and donnington. I also drive a pretty descent car for track days. You are not going to tell me about imitation thrills. YOu probably dont even know how to heel or toe, in a real car and I doubt you have ever even ttaken acar above 7000RPM on a public road. Yet you are going to make such assumptions about forza players. You are letting your own fanboy goggles cloud any sense of reasoning if you think there are forza guys that dont do track days and actually tinker with their own cars.

[Gazondaily]

@yewles

So two features worth shouting about are Motec support and data logger? Are there really gameplay features and one's talking about? How many people actually use them? Less than 5-10%?

@new
"great point man, proves that GT fans are drivers and actually own cars and know what driving is about, and Forza fans are mostly public commuters who want thrill imitation."

Lol man, your sentiment is so forced its cringeworthy. Patting the backs of gt supporters weak arguments doesn't really add much to the topic.

Forza gamers are public commuters? Haha. The things people come out with.

I mean Motec and GPS logger? Come on guys. You can do better.

[NewMonday]

@Septic

Forza fans have been hyping Forza for years and GT fans still don't care for Forza, they keep bringing up GT as a cry for attention but the market keeps ignoring.

this article is even bigger proof GT is on a bigger league, because the past days Forza articles have been a wasteland, only the same couple of guys posting over and over, this article only got hot because it mentions GT, you are all here to talk about GT.

bringing up GT constantly screens of insecurity, just have fun with Forza guys.

[RocketScienceLvlStuf]

"sheer critical acclaim".

I wouldn't call a metacritic score of 88 sheer critical acclaim. It's a great score but you are kind of proving his point about how fanboys gush.

MGS V, Last of US etc are games with sheer critical acclaim and their review scores show it.

@Septic.

In your post below you missed out the word "sheer". Critial accalim yes. But sheer critical acclaim makes it sound like it is in the upper echelons of gaming reviews.

Frankly 90 is always the target. a 90+ score is when games enter into the very top bracket.

[Gazondaily]

@rocket

Errrr...have a look at metacritic and the scores. Its critical acclaim whatever way you spin it.

@new
"Forza fans have been hyping Forza for years and GT fans still don't care for Forza"

Absolutely incorrect. GT fanboys are EXTREMELY bitter about how Forza has taken the crown as the best racing series out there. You guys are in denial.

Review scores don't matter, "but look at sales!" etc yet Forza has been so clearly the better racing series for, what I believe to be most reasonable objective gamers. Some may of course have genuine preferences but mostly its just sheer insecurity which makes GT fans prop up a defence for the series of late.

That said, I do think GT7 will take the crown because I think Polyphony are intent on really doing the seminal racing series justice.

[NewMonday]

@Septic

his point is that the Forza6 is good, just not in the same class of reception as MGS5PP, Bloodborne, Mario Kart. Forza at 8.8 is not a benchmark setter by any means, not even the best Forza game, neither the 2nd best Forza game. people didn't care about Forza then, they wont care about Forza now.

[Godmars290]

"1. Why do the Forza games score so highly in reviews?
2. In light of your comment about GT getting condemned for what it does right, please name me the new features in that game that are unrecognised."

"Errrr...have a look at metacritic and the scores. Its critical acclaim whatever way you spin it."

Froza 5 metacritic: 79
http://www.metacritic.com/g...
GT6 metacritic: 81
http://www.metacritic.com/g...

And yeah, you can throw up every Forza/GT score, just try to remember that for many GT titles, Forza hadn't even been made yet. Never mind that my main point is that your big "critical acclaim" likewise are slight score differences. 2/100 in this case. And not in favor of Forza even when considering that GT6 got railed on for having 1000 cars, many of which were low graphic recycled.

Again, you want to say and insist that Forza repeatedly reviews higher or overall, but overall the review scores between the two games is negatable.

For second question, guessing no one talks about moving stars in night skys. All anyone talks about is moon buggies and weather because, you know, Forza 6 has it now and the Xbox fan camp have been beating everyone on the head that it has something that was on the game from the other system from last gen. Failed to match up to a current contemporary, Drive Club with that one feature.

@FlexLuger:
"So are you just gonna ignore the fact that you dont do any disc swapping?"

Meh. The Xbox camp ignore the issues involved with what MS did to compensate for not waiting a year or two to offer better basic hardware, BR or HDDVD, that one of those compensations effectively made HDDs mandatory when many console owners didn't have one, so why shouldn't I ignore disc swapping?

Edit:
"So two features worth shouting about are Motec support and data logger? Are there really gameplay features and one's talking about? How many people actually use them? Less than 5-10%?"

Okay, really? That was in response to you asking for two unrecognized features. Ones no one talks about.

#goalpostmovemuch?

[NewMonday]

@Septic

Sorry man the bitterness comes from the constant need to compair Forza with GT, why do Forza fans have this desperate need for acknowledgement from GT fans?

[Spotie]

So lemme get this straight Septic:

You ASKED for two new features that don't get the recognition they deserve, someone DELIVERS, and your response is to DOWNPLAY those features?

I just wanna make sure I read that right.

[4Sh0w]

-Yeah Spotie but I think Septic and the rest of the world of reasonable people were expecting him to come up with some worthy gameplay editions that ANYONE could use without needing to go out and buy/do extra stuff like:

"MoTeC’s "i2 Pro" data analysis software. By exporting replays to a USB memory stick"

-huh???...or

"A GPS data logger only supported by special editions of Scion FRS in Japan"

-lol, are you serious???

-I mean lets be honest here both racers are good, SOME GT fans knock Forza for every little thing, as I'm sure SOME Forza fans knock GT but I think any normal racing fan would say Forza5 major flaw was lack of content at launch while the same non-biased racing fan would say GT5 suffered from some serious quality flaws not typical of PD and both GT in general has been stagnate in regards to improvements, compared to Turn10. I started on GT but I've preferred Forza since FM3 so I'm biased but I think if anyone actually looks at whats on offer with Forza6 in regards to quality & content you have to acknowledge at least Forza6 an amazing game, personally I think its by far the best racing game I ever played.

[muzikjunkie80]

FlexLuger

"Lets be clear..sony fans fired the first shot their. And sony followed up with its ridiculous "forza killer" ad campaign playing into said PS fans 'excitement'. Yet DC has been royally battered by FM5, Fh2 and now FM6 in the areas that count. Sure DC looks better but it means nothing if its the inferior game, overall."

i totally agree with you there sony fans criticized forza fotr not having proper damage etc but yet praise driveclub lol a racing game that has no physical damage and very limited cosmetic damage.

im going to be honest here, i was disapointed in driveclub after hearing all the fanboys praise its visuals etc, its nothing great just another generic racer aimed at casual racing fans, it looks good but honestly forza horizon 2 looks prettier, the cars look more realistic and ontop have better cosmetic and physical damage as well as its open world with dynamic weather/lighting. driveclub all cars almost handle the same, the engine sounds sound a bit flat, there are limited visual and mechanical upgrades etc and the AI is pretty basic to say the least... none the less its a good game and i enjoy it but its not as amazing as the ps fans make it out to be.

[Gazondaily]

Spotie those features... That nobody barely uses. Yes they are ultimately pointless. Have you used them? I genuinely thought someone could come up with something better.

[yewles1]

ROFL!!!

"But nobody uses them" *check*

"What does this do for gameplay" *check*

Come on, that's only two of the five biggest excuses so far, you got THREE MORE to go. XD

[Gazondaily]

Mate who does?? It's not even a proper gameplay feature! You wnt me to map my own track in real life? Wtf man. Give me some GAMEPLAY features ffs lol

[Spotie]

I sure as hell would have, had my system not been stolen. There are plenty of roads around here I'd love to try to take on in a sports car I damn sure can't afford.

How the hell can you say "nobody uses" this feature when you know almost nothing about the game? Did you even know about these features before somebody told you? And yet you're gonna say nobody uses them? What do you even know about the GT community?

Not a proper feature? It's one that lets you drive the roads you know. Sorry, but it would be HUGE to take my favorite 430 Scuderia around the curves near my house without getting arrested or killing anybody.

If you're SERIOUSLY saying that's not an awesome feature- if you're disregarding it because fifty billion people don't use it- there's something wrong with you. If you seriously think there aren't people- serious racers and fans alike- aren't using these features because you're ignorant of their use, you're worse off than I thought.

[Gazondaily]

Omg.

Just give me two gameplay features man. As in, no gimmicks. Come on! As in, i put the cd in and play the game. Give me a gameplay feature.

I did not expect you guys to take it on this random pointless tangent.

Btw I knew of this feature because I thought it was cool when it wad announced but hardly anyone will use it.

Seriously lets dial it back...before the interest in this topic expires.... Look at the features I listed for Forza. Youre talking GPS mappers and stuff? CORE things that materially affect gameplay.

[Godmars290]

How about getting back to what makes the Forza series so "critically acclaimed" over GT to the point Sony fanboys need to admit such? Nevermind they review similarly or that Turn 10 started this stupid rivalry.

They also stopped it if I understand correctly. Given up on being as realistically accurate as PT has shriven to be to the point they bothered with those apps, while Turn 10 is just now adding weather.

[yewles1]

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

You were just given exactly that, and you're bent out of of shape trying to downplay these ACTUAL GAMEPLAY FEATURES OF A SIM RACER as arbitrary, when they're actually innovative.

MORE innovative than, say "3D puddles" (opinion), BUT... we're not going there, this about the reactions to a question that was INDEED answered...

BLUNTLY!!!

[Gazondaily]

Lol wtf.man. 3d puddles are in the game. That's weather implementation in the game that materially affects gameplay. Youre talking about an app on your phone lmao!

http://replygif.net/i/615.g...

I should be the one laughing! I asked you two features of GT after Godmars violin playing sobfest and you mention GPS.logging and....

O_O

You couldn't make this up...

[yewles1]

APP ON YOUR PHONE???

*leaves PS3 to laugh outside, freaking neighbors out*

You can't use the the Data Logger on your phone, you're confusing it with the Course Maker--which will require a phone to scan out the track you lay out where ever you go, so that you upload and modify afterwards.--just because it has the term "GPS" on it. That's pretty telling of this whole situation at hand. I'm done.

[Godmars290]

So you nitpick "victory" from an answer that didn't met some kind of exact conditions while giving up on the main argument that Forza has nothing on GT?

Your debate skills truly astound...

[4Sh0w]

"So you nitpick "victory" from an answer that didn't met some kind of exact conditions"

NO, what Septic is saying makes sense, we are talking about giving examples of gameplay features that affect the game, not apps that very few would bother to use, I mean he gives an example of 3d puddles which are a new edition that actually contribute to less control(skidding/hydroplaning) of your vehicle if you run straight through them at 50-60mph like in real life=

HOW is that being nitpicky?

-That's like someone asking me what has Halo5 done to improve and I comeback with the Halo Waypoint app, or the Hunt the Truth episodes well that's great and all, it's something no other shooter does but it's not something that really improves the game itself for ALL users. I mean its common sense, we are talking about putting in the game disc or downloading the game and being able to play the game with quality features that surpass past games.

[Godmars290]

@4Sh0w:
When Septic's main point is that Forza has outshown GT yet can't come up with actual reasons, since sales and content don't seem to count, the reviews between the two series bare little to no differences, and he then derails the discussion by looking for minor features from GT only dismissing any response - that is just derailing things.

The only thing he's really doing is declaring that no one can bring any valid points against his argument while providing no argument. That its not enough that Forza 6 is a good game, but that its better than the whole of the GT franchise. That Sony fanboys are crying over what is basically his hypocritical biased opinion.

[freshslicepizza]

@Godmars290,
"Again, you want to say and insist that Forza repeatedly reviews higher or overall, but overall the review scores between the two games is negatable."

why, because you say so? lol. i think i would give reviewers the benefit of the doubt, not someone who has a very hard time ever praising anything in relation to the xbox brand.

forza - - 92
forza 2 - 90
forza 3 - 92
forza 4 - 91
forza 5 - 79
forza 6 - 88

gran turismo - - 96
gran turismo 2 - 93
gran turismo 3 - 95
gran turismo 4 - 89
gran turismo 5 - 84
gran turismo 6 - 81

we are seeing a downward spike for gran turismo. that is why gt7 will have a lot of pressure on it to deliver. we all know it will sell a lot regardless but reviewers will not be lenient if they continue to stagnate the franchise.

[Godmars290]

Forza 6 came out, what, three days ago? You see equal numbers in series and somehow a game that came out 2-3 years ago on the PS3 is exactly the same as one released a few days ago on the X1? And claiming a downward spike besides.

here let me help you:

forza - - 92 (2005-Xbox 360)
forza 2 - 90 (2007-Xbox 360)
forza 3 - 92 (2009-Xbox 360)
forza 4 - 91 (2011-Xbox 360)
forza 5 - 79 (2013-Xbox One)
forza 6 - 88 (2015-Xbox One)

gran turismo - - 96 (1997-PS1)
gran turismo 2 - 93 (1999-PS1)
gran turismo 3 - 95 (2001-PS2)
gran turismo 4 - 89 (2005-PS2)
gran turismo 5 - 84 (2010-PS3)
gran turismo 6 - 81 (2013-PS3)
gran turismo 7 - NA (TBA-PS4)

Really, given that GT is twice as old as Forza, has more entries in its franchise, there's no point in a d*ick measuring contest. Why I said, in the full statement you took a quote from, there was no point in lists like this. That I've been saying there's no point in arguments like this since both series are good and on their own systems - but wait, I can't say anything good about an Xbox game. I'm that biased.

Unlike you who takes under ten points differences in hundred point scores, can't tell time, and declare a "downward spike" that - somehow - will result in Xbox game systems being bought because there is just that much difference between brand-only race games. No other racing games are available on both consoles.

FFS...

[freshslicepizza]

@Godmars290,
"Forza 6 came out, what, three days ago? You see equal numbers in series and somehow a game that came out 2-3 years ago on the PS3 is exactly the same as one released a few days ago on the X1? And claiming a downward spike besides."

i didn't realize a metacritic score of 81 for gt6 is the same score as forze 6 which sits at 88. and yes it is a downward spike for gran turismo since gt3. aside from forza 5 the series has remained very high in critical standards and they are able to do it with a tighter schedule.

you seem unwilling, almost to the point of being afraid, to admit forza no longer is a shadow of gran turimso.

[Godmars290]

The only reason Forza is in GT's shadow is because MS if not turn 10 put it there. Why you bought into it, continue to perpetrate it, bores far more than it could ever astound.

[freshslicepizza]

nobody puts themselves into that predicament, so to suggest microsoft put themselves there makes no sense. halo is not in the shadows of call of duty because call of duty has been out longer or may sell better. gran tursimo did not invent racing games but they propelled themselves into an elite team. but over the years from a combination of being complacent and letting the franchise stagnate it allowed the turn 10 team to match and in certain areas exceed the benchmarks polyphony were able to define years ago. that's called coming out of the shadows or in this case escaping the shadows because gran turismo is no longer the top dog when it comes to racing games.

yet by your own logic sony put themselves in the shadows of nintendo.

[Godmars290]

Sony did put themselves in Nintendo shadow. Dethroned them with the PS1 and expanded gaming in the process.

Just like Sony put Kill Zone in the Shadow of Halo. Literally called it the freaking "Halo killer". Stigmatized it as a result and tried to live it down.

So yeah. Given that almost every Forza title has been proclaimed to be the premiere racing sim, The new racing king, by the Xbox camp if not Turn 10 - some the latter has backed down from to a degree at least while the former have only become more fanatical - that's people wanting and expecting the series to have the level of success and recognition of GT. Vehemently dismissing things like sale numbers while making way too much of differences in review scores. Holding up last gen games to current console standards while praising a feature like weather. At the same time willfully ignoring that such was done, with day/night transitions, in the last gen title.

FFS, you only have to read the second sentence of the article we're in to get the auther's intention that the Forza/GT rivalry is something that Turn 10 fostered. By the title its something they finally won based solely on opinion, since despite reviews, which could be called good but not great, no one is talking about sales.

[freshslicepizza]

@Godmars290,

first off, dan greenawalt from forza fully admitted to growing up with gran turismo. loved it and it sparked a fire to make his own games. after all gt was the pinnacle racer. but at the same time he says the series hasn't done much for him in recent history. and it is reviewers and critics who have repeatedly suggested forza has beaten gran turismo at times, not xbox fans so get that misconception out of here. that's why you try so hard to dismiss review scores and both forza and gran turimso have been on older hardware so enough of the backpeddling.

"Sony did put themselves in Nintendo shadow. Dethroned them with the PS1 and expanded gaming in the process."

only to be dethroned by the wii. my how sony must hate having put themselves back in the shadows of nintendo.

[StrayaKNT]

That happened with Forza 4, it's just that now people realise just how good and how far beyond any gt game Forza horizon 2 and Forza 6 really are.

The whole racing genre is in Forzas shadow now and I'm so happy to be apart of the amazing community. Forza 6 is a racing fans dream.

[kraenk12]

The Forza games definitely are the better racing games. GT6 though is still the better simulation.

[Justiceleague]

Forza is only getting a 87 review score on metacritic.com. Will the Xbox one ever get a game with an overall review score over 90%

[bobsmith]

thanks for the laugh forza wishes it could be gt and wants gt to notice them lol like by getting kaz's favorite car on their cover. or how gt does a tribute to senna so they make a track in brazil

[Lev1903]

Some race games are called Forza killer and not GT killer;)
I wonder why.

[Cupid_Viper_3]

Meh...your question is easily answered. No sane person is going to hope to make a racing game that can sell close to 10 million units per game. So if you've been hearing "Forza killer" then it is clearly because it is the easier target to beat by far.

Shifting focus back to the article.... And since we're on the topic of "shifting" let's then talk about there shifting goalposts here. People always used metacritic to somehow show that GT was a series in decline thus making Forza the better game.... Except that Forza 5 & 6 are the lowest rated games in the series with a 79/100 & 88/100 respectively. Wouldn't that same argument apply here?

Secondly, to this day I can name features that are in GT1 (yes the first GT) that are still not in this Forza game, Rally racing for example. People have been racing at night and in the rain since the very First Gran Turismo, which something that Forza is only now implementing. It's almost like none of GT's features matter until it is also in Forza, and suddenly it's the best thing ever...

Rally/Snow racing, dynamic Day/Night/Weather cycle which can drastically alter a race are way more important than rims and paint Jobs.

Not to mention that the next iteration of GT7 is supposed to support PlayStation VR, which is a whole different level than anything that the XBox One can offer.

Surely it's a nice touch to have drivatars and 3D puddles for the few tracks you can race with rain on, and other neat features. But it seems like Forza and its fans almost desperately NEED Gran Turismo in order to feel some sort of revelancy.

The only reason Forza is in GT's shadow is because it is trying so hard to steal GT's spotlight... And we all know how big of a shadow GT casts.

[Lev1903]

@Cupid_Viper_3 woow. What a ton of nonsense. First of all if sales define how great a games is then angry birds/cod, etc are the best games out there. And if you think that the name forza killer is just because forza is a easier target than you really dont know what you are talking. If you say that your game is the best then you will compare it to the best in the industry and not the easiest to beat.

Grand tursimo 6 sold like 2.37 million copies, so what are we talking about??

And nobody is talkin about old GT games(which were great), gt 5 and 6 were a big let down for the community itself. IF GT5 sold 10 million and were the best racing game ever then tell me why only 2 million bought the gt6?

Almost every critic that played GT and Forza give Forza. Stating the metacritic numbers last gen and now:

Forza 3: 92
Forza 4: 91
Forza 5: 79
Forza 6: 88(atm)
Horizon 2: 86

GT 5: 84
Gt 6: 81

Gran turismo had sales but now it doesnt anymore. GT lost his touch and thats a fact. Forza its in his own league and thats why it FORZA KILLER and not GT KILLER.

[Sunny_D]

So, you're just going to ignore the fact that GT6 came out at the end of 2013 when the new next gen consoles were now the center of attention not to mention there was barely any real advertisement for it? If you think nearly 3 million copies is bad, then how do you feel about Forza that can barely sell 5 million copies (without a bundle) to a series that averages 10 million on its own? Forza gets more attention on the internet by commenters than actual people who play it.

[Cupid_Viper_3]

Lol, once again I'll answer your very easy question. Gran Turismo 6 was released on December 5, 2013, the PS4 (fastest selling console of all time) came out 3 weeks before that on November 15, 2013. Take some time, sit down and think for like 1 minute.

If your logic is true then it cannot only apply to Gran Turismo, it has to also apply to Forza and the Forza horizon, and especially Halo. All are franchises that has gone down considerably down in sales and on a current Gen console too. Forza 5 and FH2 are the worst selling games in their respective genre and sold way worse than their predecessor. And Halo MCC sold like 2.3 million, so thanks to your logic XBox can now stop going around saying that Sony should be worried about the XBox One's holiday line up because those games used to have sales, but that's no longer the case.

Or will you admit that you're the one spouting nonsense?

Secondly, you're framing your argument to make Forza look good. But chronologically, here's what critics have said:

2010 GT5 releases with 84/100
2011 Forza 4 releases 91/100
2013 GT6 releases with 81/100
2013 Forza 5 releases with 79/100
2015 Forza 6 releases with 88/100
20?? GT7 will release with ??/100

You guys can manipulate data all you want to, but I can also say that critics agreed that both GT5 and GT6 are better than Forza 5. The funny thing is that even before Forza 6 came out 2 days ago, we kept hearing of how Forza is the king blah blah, yet the last 2 GT games were better than it according to metacritic and you guys never conceded that.

Like I said, you guys move the goal posts whenever it suits you, which makes it hard to have a real discussion. For instance, you guys always claim that it's Gameplay > graphics, yet the biggest knock against GT5 is that it has non-premium cars that looks ugly compared to the premium ones. So all of a sudden 800 cars suddenly don't matter and the whole "Gameplay > graphics" no longer apply. Hell you have folks on this very thread saying that theyd take less cara for better graphics...

Also, if Gameplay is king.. Wouldn't Rally/snow and dynamic weather/Day/Night cycles add that much more to the Gameplay? We all know that if Forza did any of that it would be the talk of the town, so it gets downplayed until Forza 8 can implement it.

So this is not a real discussion because nothing matters until your favorite game(s) is doing it as well. So I guess you win?

[TXIDarkAvenger]

Uh isn't Kaz's favourite car the Nissan GT-R? Last time I checked, Forza 6's cover has the Ford GT.

[Corristo]

GT 7 is coming next year or the year after - and then horefully the shadow is there again :)

[Ginpachi-sama]

This is hilarious they are happy about a game beating another game from 2013 that was released on a weaker console congrats to forza tho but these guys are just pathetic

[FlexLuger]

"This is hilarious they are happy about a game beating another game from 2013"

actually no. Nice try though. FM3 and FM4 was better than GT5 and 6. Go check the reviews. GT is nice but its old news.

[Sunny_D]

I'd like how everyone is using Metacritic as their go to argument, but wouldn't care about metacritic when another game is being bombarded with bad reviews.

Like the article said, the release of GT does feel like an event. More people talk about Forza on the internet than actually play it. Sales would prove it. GT6 may have sold low (It sold the average for a Forza game), but most people can already see why it did in the first place.

[RiseofScorpio]

The shadow of PS2 era car models and vacuum cleaner sounds? But they seriously need to overhaul everything for GT7, especially damage modelling and the sound engine.

[Indigon]

Still, other things were already better in GT6 on older hardware like the lighting engine. Forza 6 STILL looks way too flat and boring almost bordering on cartoony at times. Also there are still a lot of jaggies.

I agree that sound is a big issue in GT7 but Kaz has stated at the time that they would work on that. Apparently they hired an ex-Forza worker for the sounds so I'm not worried about that.

[NeoGamer232]

Yep, and Killzone 2 was scheduled for 2006 release, Last Guardian for 2010 release, Persona 5 this year release, Drive Club 2013 release, etc...

Its funny how when XB gets more AAA exclusive releases than PS Sony and Sony fans uses the "coming soon" marketing tactic.

GT should be better than Forza, it is coming out a year later. But, this time GT features should be compared to Forza. Things like drivatars, water pooling on the track, race modes, online racing, etc. But, unfortunately all reviewers will look at is the visual aspects and because it will probably a PSVR title, reviews will probably gush over that.

[cfc83]

I think the real comparison will be forza 6 and gt7. The time between their releases will be close. At the end of the day though, xbox shows more faith in forza than sony does with gt. Sony are waiting to sell more consoles to sell gt, whereas xbox take the view that forza is a part of their future games that can sell consoles.

[bmky]

Polyphony Digital takes their time. Not Sony.

[cfc83]

Sony never let evolution take their time. Last gt was a sales slump, so they might be waiting on a bigger install base. Forza 6 was made in 2 years. I should say a fair comparison would be forza 7 vs gt 7. GT will probably be out closer to the 2 year mark. Whether people like it or not, forza is the biggest and best racing brand out there just now.

[IRetrouk]

Cfc

Sony did let evo take their time.....driveclub was delayed....to give them more time lol

Gt is a proven console seller though so i dont really understand your point lol sony have that much faith in the brand that kaz is allowed as much time as needed... Oh and that sales slump you talk of???? Gt6 sold roughly what each forza does... On hardware that was already replaced with the ps4 lol your points are weak man.

[thricetold]

And.Here.We.Go...

[USMC_POLICE]

I've been with granturismo since I was a kid and my first forza was forza 3, I have to say I agree forza does a lot right that GT has yet to manage. For one premium cars are a must I would rather have 500 highly detailed cars then 1200 cars and half look like crap or have no interior. I would also love customization in GT like forza has. On the flip side I wish forza had licenses and weekly events like GT, Sony were stupid for not making GT6 on ps4, at heart I am a racer and will buy both systems when the racing games come out but right now I have 3 racing games on Xbox and 1 on PS4.(talking exclusives) so far forza 6 is reminding me of GT4 and if you play GT then you know 4 is the holy grail.

[TwoForce]

Well, Gran Turismo 6 was on PS3. But if you look history, PS1 have two GT games. Same thing with PS2, GT 3 and GT4. And PS3, GT 5 and GT 6 (include the proluge), PS4 will have GT7 and GT8. Of course, Forza series get more sequels and spin off. These two have different tactics and development.

[DragonDDark]

Where is GT to compete it? Let's wait and see first.

[triple_c]

Just my thoughts.. a GT game hasn't even been released this generation and yet people are comparing it to Forza 6 and Forza Horizon 2. At least give the game a chance to release on current gen hardware first before comparing it to Forza.

[SaveFerris]

Judging by the review scores that Forza 6 is getting, Polyphony Digital will have to work hard and produce their best Gran Turismo game yet. I look forward to seeing Gran Turismo 7.

[Ginpachi-sama]

They already made gran turismo tho thr highest rated racing game to date

[SaveFerris]

That doesn't mean PD should rest on their laurels.

[RiseofScorpio]

Gran Turismo hasn't been the highest rated racer since Gran Turismo 3, 14 years ago. 14 years.

[Rookie_Monster]

Tekken 3 is also the highest scored fighting game on meta too with a 96 and I don't recall many still claim Tekken is the greatest fighting series still. It is what you are currently that counts and Forza 3, Forza 4, and now Forza 6 all scored higher than GT4, GT5, GT6. So until GT7 comes out and prove it can knock out Forza 6 in critical accolades, Forza is the current champ.

[green]

And what are the review scores for the past few GT games?

Gt3 = 95 (released 14 years ago)
GT4 = 89
GT5 = 86
Gt6 = 81

Notice a trend?

[TwoForce]

Well, it true. It have gone down. The only way they need to make GT series comeback. Gotta make GT 7 improve everything.

[Magicite]

the same trend is present with Halo series.

[green]

@magcite: Write an article about the decline of the Halo series, publish it on N4G and we can discuss that. But for now, you are off topic.

[Oner]

Person (a) makes point about a game and its decline/trend in review scores

Person (b) makes SAME EXACT CORRELATIVE point about a game and its decline/trend in review scores

Person (a) covers ears, closes eyes, cries "LaLaLaLaLaLaLaLa that's not the same you're off topic"

Same point different game means not the same. Sure...Yeah...OKAY...that seems about right.

SMFH

[Sunny_D]

Forza 3 = 92
Forza 4 = 91
Forza 5 = 79
Forza 6 = 88

Notice a trend? Forza 6 would have received better scores either way, thanks to the fact that Forza 5 was a big pile of turd. GT5 has an 84, but people still play it for years where as Forza fans can't even play it for half a year before they move on.

[peterdawa]

Sorry but this insistence on forza being better does not make sense to me. Lets break it down. Apart from drivatar, what features does forza have over gt6, really think about it. Gt6 has more features, dynamic weather and time of day on some tracks. Tessalation damage, pit stop with actual people. These are a few, why does forza only add rain and night and it is deemed revolutionary. This is lowering the standard and expectation of x box gamers. Demand for these features and stop praising the games faults and the next forza will have these features rather than in the next generation. It is up to you as x box gamers to critic honestly and let turn 10 know that you want at least more features than gt6 that came out years ago. You can disagree but if a gt game came out with staticweather and no dynamic time of day and removed pit stop crew we would rate it poorly but forza gets a 10. really silly

[TwoForce]

Dude, way too biased. Just calm down.

[peterdawa]

forgive me if it came off so. However I welcome any points I offered to be countered. I honestly feel driving games need to offer much more and these 10s make no sense. Counter any point I made.

[green]

- More premium cars
- Full customization of engine, aero, drivetrain and and tunning
- Engine and drivetrain swaps
- Ability to creat car paint designs limited by only your imagination
- Most advanced A.I system ever to grace a racing game (drivertar)
- Dynamic weather has been done to death by even arcade racers but no racing game apart from Forza 6 has simulated weather and dynamic puddles

[peterdawa]

green seems your saying because of puddles you would sacrifice dynamic weather and time of day. Car paint is not something im so interested in in a simulator but il give you that. Most advanced A.i system, please look at the videos of the drivator A.I, I wouldnt brag about this but I admire the effort they put in and is the right direction. However I am asking about in game gameplay. you lack points on this.

[FlexLuger]

"seems your saying because of puddles you would sacrifice dynamic weather and time of day2

The weather does not change much in a ten lap race let alone a 60 lap race. Its a nice feature but mostly unrealistic in its application. over a 1 hour race sure, dynamic weather would be nice. But how many times does the weather change in an hour?

"However I am asking about in game gameplay. you lack points on this."

I think having a better tire, suspension and weight model counts for something. I think having more detailed feedback counts too. As for drivatars, they learn. If they are stupid its a reflection of the driver. I know for a fact from friends that my drivatar is difficult to catch when aggression and difficulty are turned up. SO yes, it works. playing a game is much more informative of how it works than watching youtube vids. forza damage model spanks GTs. I dont ever remeber killing my gearboxes in GT, but I can tell you EXACTLY how to do in forza without even crashing. Same 'trick' applies in real life. Oh and lets not forget the engine sounds..forzas V tech hondas sound better than anything in GT, and thats before I bring up merc V8s or BMW sixes in forza. The audio murders GT. And lets not forget that forza has the most accurate laser scanned version of the ring, right now. superior car selection too.

So forza has better handling

Better AI

Better online suite

Tracks are subjective. Its a case of where do you want to drive and which game gives you your fave mixture of real life and fictional tracks. So that one is even.

But as it stands,there are many reasons, Forza scores better than GT and GTs scores have gotten progressively lower. Just read the reviews.Too many points for me to make in a 2000 word limit post and only 3 bubbles. Those reviews some it ALL up though. Its funny how THIS is the post that finally got PS fanboys out in full force. Must have gotten sick and tired of seeing all those high scores by now. And now an article makes it clear what is what......

[green]

"seems your saying because of puddles you would sacrifice dynamic weather "

Absolutely.

I have played games with dynamic weather (Driveclub, Forza Horizon 2, PGR4), while great, in a sim it is useless unless the weather effects are sumulated and not like the games i mentioned above and Project Cars and Gt6 that simply reduce the grip levels. SO yes, Forza did a fantastic job because they simulated weather rather than just throw in FH2 dynamic weather system to make everyone feel happy.

As for tunning, customization and livery, well that is rela life. Racing cars get tuned, parts get removed and replaced and cars get custom paint jobs.

Drivertars are part of in game game play. Are You judging drivertars based on videos you watched or actual hands on? I am judging based on hundreds of hours sunk into Forza Horizon 2 and Forza 5 and they are by far and away ahead of the rubber band A.I found in almost every racing game.

[peterdawa]

flex I appreciate your answers more than greens. I felt it had more valid points. What I am asking is do you believe that the features offered in this forza are what you expected after the likes of driveclub and project cars. Can you honestly say that your satisfied that a developer did not put rain at night because it would be too difficult for you to drive as an acceptable answer.

[Sunny_D]

@flexluger
"forza damage model spanks GTs."

https://youtu.be/cjQbiLk9GP...

Such great damage huh? And this is the most recent Forza too...

[IRetrouk]

Wrong . driveclubs rain is simulated. So is the wind and the snow and the temp and even the stars... So yes there is another game that simulates those effects lol read before you type lol

[Gunstar75]

Pit stops with "real people"??? I think you might be wrong there..lolz

[peterdawa]

In the end, I feel the next gt will seriously gap forza in part due to forza fans accepting anything with only praise after lack of features. Criticism will help move all games forward and that is something that forza lacks from its fans. Honest truth

[TwoForce]

Let just wait and see. Forza 6 get a lot great review. I hope PD push up thier limit to make sure GT7 to be the best.

[bmky]

Forza has almost instant progression. I felt no sense of achievement there. Guess that's why it's so popular with reviewers.

I prefer to start with the slow cars, grind it out, learn what driving lines are, Get licenses, think about how to add 2 seconds to my laptime, stress about the Redbull challenge whilst im in a meeting, Get bronze in a challenge after 200 tries and feel happy. I want to suffer. I want to almost feel like breaking the damn disc. That's what GT gives you. A sense of achievement/accomplishing a feat. Who cares about paint and decals, when you trying to figure out how to beat Sebastian Vettel.

Can we really compare the two games though. Forza is straight forward - pick up and play. Instant gratification. A day after buying the game you race a hyper car whether or not you understand what difference racing lines, timed braking or car physics make to your laptime.

But Hey, each to their own I guess.

[Lev1903]

What you described sounds more like work then enjoying a game.

[Fishy Fingers]

GT has been in steady decline for some time while Forza has just grown from strength to strength and Turn 10 have managed to do this with MUCH shorter dev cycles. Hats off to them.

[TwoForce]

I don't know about that.Get too much sequel for short cycle can be a bad thing to be honest. Because it can be predictable.

[Magicite]

All forzas combined have sold less than GT5, much less.

[RiseofScorpio]

Thats true except in every detail. Forza 3 pushed nearly 6 million units, 4 is close to 5 million and Forza 5 and Horizon 2 put together total 7 million. GT5 has sold 10 million.

[Magicite]

I meant All Xbox One Forzas.
Forza 5 + Horizon 2 isnt 7m, its 7m UNIQUE players that have played those games NOT bought, real number is ~3-4m

[Edito]

I stopped reading when he said better than Gran Turismo...

[sovkhan]

Can we talk about this once GT7 is out???

[Edito]

Even after GT7 there will be no reason to talk about it... Forza is a great game but Gran Turismo is something else i don't even know why people still compare this two games... It's like comparing Street Fighter with any other fighting game we can't fight with cultural things, the same thing people did with Splinter Cell they compared to Metal Gear Solid all the time and that damaged in some way the franchice (Splinter Cell)... let's just enjoy games...

[sovkhan]

Of course, no need to compare...there's no harm in having choices.

But if you ever feel the need to, at least pick up games from the same gen, that's only what i meant ;)

[Sonyslave3]

Dude wtf is this shet forza been pass Gt look at the metacritic score Gt last 3 games been in low 80 while Forza be in the 90's.

Gt6 81 metacritic
http://www.metacritic.com/g...

Gt5 84 metacritic.
http://www.metacritic.com/g...

Gt5 prologue 80 metacritic
http://www.metacritic.com/g...

Forza 2 90 metacritc
http://www.metacritic.com/g...

Forza 3 92 metacritic
http://www.metacritic.com/g...

Forza 4 91 Metacritic
http://www.metacritic.com/g...

Forza been pass Gt I didn't mention Horizon series which all score higher then the last 3 Gt games.

Forza 6 sitting at 88 on metacritic

[Magicite]

I think we talk about popularity and sales and thats where Forza will always be behind.

[NeoGamer232]

Ya...

Because popularity and sales automatically make one game better than another. /s

[sovkhan]

Nice try, skipping the 79 for Forza 5!!!

But for the race sim addicts GT is the way to go, no matter how hard you try, and no matter metacritic scores!!!

[Sonyslave3]

Okkie forza 5 a launch title that was rush out for xbox one got a meta score of 79 but look at what Turn 10 did with forza 6 when they weren't rush it the highest rated racer this gen 88meta.

And u know what funny is Forza 5 was a rush job but it still destroy the other PS exclusive Racing game DriveClub with it 71meta score and that game was delay for how many years and Forza 5 a launch title that was rush destroy it.

Forza 5 a launch title that was rush 79 metacritic
http://www.metacritic.com/g...

Forza 6 2 years later 88 Metacritic
http://www.metacritic.com/g...

Forza Horizon 2 open World sandbox Racer 86 Metacritic 2014
http://www.metacritic.com/g...

Imagine if Turn10 had the time PD have to make Gt7 wow not only that but PD said that Gt7 might be like Horizon lol since when did the king start following the prince.

[sovkhan]

@SSlave

And still coming back for more!!!

You purpose in your first post is to demonstrate the "superiority" of Forza - foolish but i'm ok with that - with metacritic score!!!

So you say last 3 GT games are low 80 and then go praising Forza 90+ scores!!!

But you forget to say in the process that the lowest score is for Forza 5; of course; this will ruin your demonstration!!!

Instead of acknowledging the error , you came up with the silliest alibi of all, rushed game...

Bias much aren't you???

No need to replay to me i see clearly where you are at ;)

[solidboss07]

Until GT7 hits. Then Forza won't just be in shadow, it will be in deep frozen darkness. Joking.
Forxa 6 is looking good, I would not complain if I had it on PS4. But Polyphony will deliver with the extra GPU resources, ROPS, and faster memory of PS4. They need to with all of the competition today.

[Moe-Gunz]

I just want to know why it feels like a new Forza is released every year. It's getting ridiculous.

[NeoGamer232]

Forza is a brand...

There are two game series in the brand.

The arcade racer... Forza Horizon...

And the simulation racer... Forza Motosports...

So, to begin with, Forza Motorsports is every second year. Not every year.

Secondly, if they keep making substantial improvements and make a great game to play why is a release every second year bad?

CoD, Assassin's Creed, EA Sports games are all yearly and people keep playing them. Since when does taking 5 years to make a new game make it better than another game automatically? I don't get the logic.

[superterabyte]

The criticism of standard cars is illogical. If you don't like them don't use them. I'd rather have the choice as to use a sub-standard looking car then just take them out of the game. Also they really don't look that bad.

Remember it can take up to 6 months to produce a premium car on GT and a lot of the older cars they don't have access to due to the difficulty in obtaining them for modelling.

[D-riders]

Lol, these articles man. Foza and gt AR enot the same game. These stupid a$$ articles try to make an arcade racer better than a summation at simulating wtf

[mEATgrinder]

GT is so in the rear view mirror to Forza right now you can even see it

[Android]

People who prefer Forza over GT don't appreciate driving simulators and probably never used a driving wheel either.

[JonnyBigBoss]

I've raced in real life, have been playing racing simulators since the 90's, consider GT2 and GT3 my top 20 games of all time, and have a $600 racing simulator setup. I absolutely love Forza 6 and much prefer it over Gran Turismo 5 and Gran Turismo 6.

$100 says you don't even have an Xbox One.

[FN4GM]

Here's the problem with your post, you're expecting people to believe what some random guy says on the internet. Problem two with your post, even if he did prove you wrong its not like you're going to pay up.

[Android]

Its fare to say I no longer own an Xbox One. I used to play Forza 5 on it. I don't play simulators on consoles as much as I do on PC. When I do I turn to GT as it feels more closer to the truth. Forza always felt more arcade like than GT. Which is why I get why some people enjoy it more. I think it would be fare to compare GT7 with Forza 6 when it releases. It baffles me as to why people are comparing next gen titles with last gen. For me it testifies how good GT is.

[JonnyBigBoss]

I haven't had this much fun with a racer since Gran Turismo 3. Forza 6 is the real deal.

[Flames76]

Forza Motorsports was never in grand turismo's shadow that's why Forza has been the number 1 rated racing game for the past 10 years

[Azzanation]

FM4 took the Forza franchise to another level, FM6 just cemented it.

[FN4GM]

Until GT7 comes out and then its right back in the shadows. Its really easy and convenient to make this claim when there's no direct competition.