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A Quiet Conversation

Jim Sterling:

I’ve got my umbrella primed for a torrent of boiled piss, as I’m about to suggest Hideo Kojima is less than perfect. How could you argue otherwise, though, when you see Quiet and unveil the “secret reason” for her total ballbag visual design?

So join me as we explain why the whole Quiet thing in Metal Gear Solid V is total bollock-chunder! Afterwards, I plan to drink. Drink to forget.

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Timesplitter14858d ago (Edited 858d ago )

Prior to MGS5's release, Kojima said something like "You may think her design is exploitative but you will feel ashamed of yourself when you discover the reason she is dressed like that."

That WAS a pretty dumb thing to say. He should've just admitted it's fanservice and nothing more. Even if her ability does justify her outfit, they only came up with that ability to justify the outfit in the first place, not the other way around. I don't think it's a coincidence that the character that has this ability just happens to be a girl

3-4-5858d ago

Blind praise of people is disgusting.

Too many people in the U.S. here are obsessed with the celebrity of people, and act like they can do no wrong.

* It's makes people sound like Cult Members, like they are defending Scientology or something.

Kojima isn't perfect....no human is.

aquaticDonut858d ago

Thing is, though, the excuse doesn't justify the outfit. As Jim points out in the video, they directly compare her ability to that of The End's from MGS 3. The one who wore a full ghillie suit.

joeorc858d ago

But yet take a remembering of this famously... Um ehm..out fitted Assassin

https://www.google.com/sear...

Would than people call this exploitive?

Thats kinda the point, don't people think its a lil doubled standard to call this exploited and than just ignore something like crying freeman? And not also point that out..?

SteamPowered858d ago

Plus, if she needs to breathe through her skin, how the hell does she have a shower? Hold her breath and run under the faucet?

morganfell858d ago (Edited 858d ago )

@joeorc,

It is a double standard. Here is something I posted a few weeks back:

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Bimkoblerutso858d ago

This isn't a discussion about double standards, dammit. Why does this ALWAYS have to devolve into this "well he/she started it!" BS every time it's brought up?

I don't mind the material. I JUST mind the context (or lack thereof) in which it is being presented.

I still like porn. I still like tits. The SJW's can still go take a long walk through traffic.

You just have a character here that Kojima has created a wonderful story for...but then all he can do is ogle her tits and ass with the camera for half her scenes?

I mean Jesus Christ, I think at least MOST of us can agree that we don't play Metal Gear Solid games for the fapping, so why is there an entire character dedicated to that end instead of one that compliments what we ACTUALLY all like about Metal Gear Solid games (as in the characters and narrative)?

generic-user-name858d ago

Only her photosynthesis ability is comparable to The Ends, not her breathing ability, and it's her breathing which is the reason for her appearance.

morganfell858d ago

That "character" is only dedicated to your fapping if that is the way you see her. The issue is in your head, not with the game. Then again, this is the new modern world where no one blames their own self for anything. It must be Kojima's fault.

Bimkoblerutso857d ago (Edited 857d ago )

I don't think you understand.

That's the whole damned point. I'm NOT playing the game to fap, but Kojima makes it a friggin POINT to bury the camera in her cleavage every chance he gets the chance...or makes it a point to put her in the shower with you while a bunch of dudes are standing around whispering stuff like "mmmm, look at that!"

It just makes no damn sense. You take a game like Catherine that has a story specifically dedicated to exploring sexuality, and it works perfectly fine. That stuff belongs in the story and setting. It helps develop the narrative and characters.

In a game like MGSV, it just feels like it's thrown in there as potential fap material. It is distracting even if you're not necessarily looking at it sexually. It'd be like zooming in on Snake's bulge every time he speaks.

Edit: and just for the record, in regards to me simply misinterpreting Mr. Kojima's intent here. On why he wanted to make more "erotic" characters:

"The initial target is to make [you] want to do cosplay or its figurine to sell well."

morganfell855d ago

No it is yo that is lacking comprehension. First of all it is a Kojima game. Is this your first Metal gear Game? If so I feel sorry for you for a variety of reasons. It reminds me of my neighbors kid telling me he saw his first Star Wars film last week called Revenge of the jedi. Not that I dislike that film but rather he now will the Luke I am your father progression/reveal ruined.

And again it is a Kojima game. Appreciation of the female form is not lacking in his games.

But the fact remains you are still making a choice.

Did it ever occur to you why the camera angles happen in this way? Can you separate your own boyhood fantasies and motivations for a second and ask what Kojima is really trying to say here? Almost everyone has missed this point. It's pretty simple at the end of the day and not one of these Social Justice Pied Pipers has figured it out. I can't believe how obvious it is, more apparent than Quiets rump, and everyone misses the point.

If you figure it out then let me know. If you are just going to scream sex and objectification, I really won't hear you.

Bimkoblerutso854d ago (Edited 854d ago )

Well, you don't "hear" a whole hell of a lot to begin with, anyway, because I'm not screaming "objectification". I don't give two licks about whether or not this is an objectification of women. I thought I made that pretty clear. I am only commenting on the fact that I think that her overt sexuality is out of place in the context the game has established. It's distracting and breaks my immersion.

And just for the record, I have been commenting since the SECOND INSTALLMENT about my distaste for Kojima's pretentious habit of including childish bits of context-less and 4th-wall breaking "gags". And yes, I could make a pretty solid case that it has been getting exponentially worse and more distracting since the first Metal Gear Solid game.

And please enlighten me, if you would, as to what the apparently clear-as-day meaning is behind all of it. Because the only explanation I have at this point is from the creator himself who openly admitted that she was made more erotic to cater to cosplay and figurine sales.

morganfell854d ago

You deserve to know why Kojima used those shots when you figure it out for yourself. I am in the middle of writing a PM to another person on this site and came back to my response to grab a quote when I saw your reply. The person to whom I am writing comprehends clearly. Its a technique used in movies and books as well. Why are some gamers so blind.

Where in Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake was Kojima doing this? I played that game just after launch when the first fan translations appeared. Don't bother answering, the crying is becoming intolerable.

As for V, It's his game. Don't like it, don't play it. Stop crying on a forum. Move on to Mad Max where it is only inoffensive killing. It's amazing the killing in the game is fine but people are doing somersaults over the human body. The fact you and so many people fail to see the very real and obvious reason for those angles is laughable. I don't understand how people miss it but as par for the course, in the rush to sign up for the Social Justice Corps they blow past the obvious.

Bimkoblerutso852d ago

The fact that you still think this has anything to do with ethical hangups speaks to your inability (or unwillingness, more likely) to comprehend dissenting opinion.

I like to think that I'm not so hard-headed that I can't see both sides of an argument even if I still disagree, but honestly, "figure it out yourself" really goes a long way in demonstrating just the kind of person I've been arguing with this whole time. What a big ball of pretentious, hard-headed fluff you are.

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FunkyGoron858d ago (Edited 858d ago )

I would've been much more interested if "Quiet", the character and the abilities, were attributed to one of the child soldiers. Not saying I want to work with a kid but the flack Quiet is getting wouldn't exist and I think it'd add a nice layer to Big Boss and his relationships w/ people in the MGS series.

I literally do not enjoy using Quiet because I can't go into the chopper with her if my wife or some other woman in my life (mom/sister) is sitting next to me. It's a stigma enough to be a gamer at an older age, doesn't help if my "stealth" game has a half naked woman showering, bending over, or dancing on screen.

KONAMI: "Hey, guys like our game and guys like TITS!!!"
(sells millions of copies)

morganfell858d ago (Edited 858d ago )

Regardless of how she is dressed, sexualizing her is still your choice. No one is forcing you to look at her in that manner.

CrowbaitBob857d ago

Truer words have never been spoken. We are all responsible for how we choose to think about and treat others.

Personal responsibility isn't a big seller these days though.

coolman229855d ago

Yes I'm sure that it's our choice that Kojima made the camera focus on her boobs and butt every time she was on screen. It was entirely out choice to have Quiet dance in the rain and stretch out seductively even when she's sitting in a helicopter.

It seems like the only person you don't want to have to have responsibility is Kojima. Because it was HIM who made Quiet do all that. And I DON'T want to look at her sexually. I want to see her like I've seen pretty much all other Metal Gear women. Great characters who happen to be beautiful. But the game never allows her to be much more than that. It becomes distracting when something legitimately touching could happen but Quiet starts taking her clothes off and posing.

morganfell855d ago

Some people are sexually excited by hands. Is it also some developers fault every time a character shakes a fist and someone playing the game is aroused? It is your choice. Stop having a fit over something as amazing as the human body. I think women are incredible and every time I see one scantily dressed sex isn't the first thing in my mind. Oh love it, probably more than most, but I can also celebrate the human body with out having an uncontrollable urge. Don't like what was done? Sell the game and make your own game where the women are all wearing potato sacks.

madjedi858d ago (Edited 858d ago )

So your an older gamer that is still shamed by women for daring to play with a female that is not fully clothed in a video game.

Like women never go out to the beach in a bathing suit or bikini.

It sold because of the gameplay not quiet's tits, a 5-10 dollar porn magazine is a hell of a lot cheaper than a 65 dollar game.

Have fun limiting you game options, because of other people's insecurities.

So blood and violence is perfectly fine but scantily clad women is an immediate red flag. That is odd for adults.

FunkyGoron858d ago

You sound ignorant... "women"... as in, my mother, wife, sisters, and/or daughter? Yes I'd like to be the type of person that actually takes into consideration how another might feel about something, even if it's not intentionally meant to offend.

I wish for my daughter that she doesn't feel objectified by, well, anything. I can't control everything, obviously.

I feel bad for you that you can't understand why, someone who owns and loves the game, would be put off by how Quiet was used in MULTIPLE cut-scenes. If you believe that dancing in the rain, showering, bending over in a helicopter wasn't put in there ONLY for the sexual nature then there is nothing I can say.

Yes, wearing a bathing suit has so much to do with the point people are making. No one says "women can't wear a bathing suit", it's how her character's appearance is used, camera angles, scenes, etc. It doesn't affect my enjoyment, I prefer D-Dog anyways when in the field.

Not sure why you would be bothered by people saying Kojima could have used more tact and class with the character design.

Cortana, Ellie, Samus, Lara Croft... all characters that are never thought of by their sexual appearance, yet they're women with strong roles in good games. I think it's perfectly fine to expect more from a dev like Kojima.

morganfell857d ago

"Cortana, Ellie, Samus, Lara Croft... all characters that are never thought of by their sexual appearance, yet they're women with strong roles in good games."

I guess you do not go to many game forums because what you stated is flatly and completely untrue. They are all sexualized.. a great deal. There is this thing called google you may want to try.

madjedi857d ago (Edited 857d ago )

Long one.

And you sound like a proud mangina/male feminist.

"Yes I'd like to be the type of person that actually takes into consideration how another might feel about something, even if it's not intentionally meant to offend."

So I am some careless monster that is incapable of taking other peoples feelings into consideration.

Because I expect them to deal with reality, and not have to walk on eggshells as to not offend them. Get off the moral high horse, very few people are that uncaring in real life, and I am not one of them.

You are not watching a porno in front of them, if your daughter is below the age guidelines while watching the games, that is your fault as a parent.

"I wish for my daughter that she doesn't feel objectified by, well, anything. I can't control everything, obviously."

Just like if you had a son he would only be judged by how big his bank account is or how physically fit he is.

You can wish till the cows come home, reality will not change despite how hard you idealists wish it would.

Have you actually played many of the mgs series everyone is sexualized men and women, did you miss mgs 4's beast core photo shoot mode? Did that detract any from them being bosses in the game.

I find it absolutly hilarious, your having a tizzy about her appearance, despite her being as powerful a soldier and warrior as she is in the game.

Would you be similarly outraged if kojima had done the same to big boss or ocelot in an overly sexual nature for shit's and giggles, I don't think so.

"Not sure why you would be bothered by people saying Kojima could have used more tact and class with the character design."

Because I am tired of the morality police and/or social crusaders like you, wanting others to change character designs and other parts of various media because it offends you and the wanna be sophisticated crowd.

Yeah how much tact was in magic mike or other movies where the male lead has to be nude or topless strictly for their sexual nature.

So sexual nature or appealing to sexual nature is a bad thing now. Considering it's catering towards men that sounds about right with the narratives being pushes by the sjw/feminist crowd.

Show me another dev that has given women the spotlight as much as kojima and not made them helpless princesses that have to be rescued constantly.

But both as heroes and villians, deadly and brilliant, kojima has been one of the few that pushed strong female characters early on.

"I think it's perfectly fine to expect more from a dev like Kojima."

I think it is perfectly fine for him to design characters and scenes however he pleases and not be forced to change it to cater to your or anyone else's whims.

SynestheticRoar858d ago

Jim got it twisted. He would like if the quiet girl was never there. Because of his own inadequecity. Not anything of what he spoke of. Real truth.

858d ago
Activemessiah858d ago

The reason The End is covered is because nobody wants to see him "breathe through his skin".... nobody.

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