Yugo Hayashi, the director’s working on Star Fox Zero from Nintendo’s side, has weighed in one the game’s visual style.
So the reason it looks like a ps2 game is due to hardware limitations.
You've obviously never seen a PS2 game. And you obviously don't care about this one, nor many others on the system.
Its really not a lot better looking than some of the better looking PS2 games.
Whether that's a final build or not. That screen shot looks pretty bad. Maybe not ps2 bad but like it looks like an xbox original game. We've seen Wii U do a lot better *Mario Kart*. This just doesn't look impressive even for Wii U. P.S. I'm just going off the screen shot in the article
more like Miyamoto's silly controller hogging resources.
yes indeed. just imagine if they tried virtual reality on the wii u and what the graphics would look like.
I'm still buying it. Still looks fun. If the hardware really is holding them back then the nx and a solid raster patch should let them shine a little brighter. I mean splatoon wasn't the Omg look at those graphics type of draw but I'm totally hooked. Plus nintendo isn't much of a fools gold luanch platform. Not many broken games and they generally know what they are doing if gamers can get over the years of hate that has been preached passive aggressively. I really wouldn't mind a flat shaded style with way more polygons just like the first one. With cool semi 3d back drops. Yet graphics are the main selling point that casuals are going for these days. The ps3 and Xbox proved that they loved shiny things even at 15fps.
PS2 couldn't even render the shadows alone, lets be real here.
they should have made it purely shoot em up. they should have pushed what you can do with starfox to the maximum, in true platinum style. instead, what it looks like we are getting is a toned down, slowed down, gimmicky, newbie-friendly version of starfox you know there is a problem when the control method comes at the expense of how the game is presented. its even worse that the previews point strongly towards the game being hampered, gameplay-wise by it... ugh
More like Rogue Squadron at higher fps. Expansion pack enhanced though...
There are so many reasons Nintendo is getting left behind: 1) That Gamepad gimmick is a resource hog, 2) The devs are on a tight stingy budget, like Metroid Prime : Federation Forces 3) or purely Lazy development, 4) Nintendo is too conservative and traditional and too stingy to invest in High Definition game development 5) They still adhere to that underpowered-overpriced philosophy to rip off soccer moms and kids 6) They rather resort to gimmicks ripping off other people's technology and inventions rather than doing R&D on their own original tech. i.e. They ripped off Hillcrest Labs motion sensing tech and put it on the Wi Remote They ripped off longtime Sony inventor Seijiro Tomita's invention of glass less 3D screen and then they rip off the concept of tablet gaming and put it on the Wii U 7) They simply can not grow from kiddie game material themselves its like a self induced curse! Nintendo has ran out of ideas to rip off and now they are so far behind. Hideki Kamiya of Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101, Platinum Games has voiced interest in making the next Starfox but Nintendo is so cheap to let him do it. @concert That is no excuse Nintendo is hailed by many as one of the best game makers today they should live up to that name or that claim is really false.
Sorry, but they just released a game that is selling out world wide.. You cant say all the crap you are saying while ignoring all the facts. By the way Hashimoto of Platinum games is co director of Star fox Zero.. I guess that fact missed you.
There is no way an in-house Nintendo game should have those textures that are that bad. Other Nintendo games have looked really great on the Wii u
Yeah the hardware is better than this game shows, maybe this will be released at a lower price point than other titles.
I think everyone keeps forgetting what exactly is going on with this game from a technical standpoint, it's been stated several times now. It's running at 60 frames at two separate viewpoints, which is very hard on the hardware. It's basically spitting out 120 frames at once. The only other case where a game was rendering two different 3D areas was TW101, and it dropped to 30 to achieve those sequences. If you ask me this might be a case where the technical ambition of the game excuses the typical 60 fps target, if this game looked a decent bit better i would take a locked 30 for sure. But nintendo is dedicated to the 60 fps target for both screens and so the game suffers visually. They definitely didn't just take the easy road because i bet it is extremely hard to program a game with this set up. This goes to show why nintendo has made such little effort with the gamepad as well, the wii u was just to ambitious to come out at its price point.
Well said. Although some of the texture work (mainly ground textures) looks a little ropey, some of the lighting and filtering is still quite nice and like you said, the game is kicking out 60fps with two different viewpoints to two different screens - that's technically impressive even if the visuals took a slight hit.
That's not really accurate TBH, for one thing the cockpit view is just a smaller part of the higher resolution image, because the exterior viewpoint gives more of a wider view, with way more data, the cockpit doesn't need to render any new data, it's just a more zoomed in part of the bigger image with the ability to pan the camera around in a restricted framework, with the Arwing's interior layered on top of that camera on the gamepad screen. The TV image is just a 921,600(1280X720) pixel per frame render and the gamepad (assuming it's full native output) a portion of that, 409,920 (854X480) pixels. The game is on rails for the most part, with very few enemies on screen at once, no real choice of pathways to take, until you come to the all range sections, which are small spaces, not really big open areas, like in vast open world games. People are just lapping up what the game's Director is saying, without really comparing what the view on the gamepad looks like vs the big exterior view, it's certainly nothing that would hog much in the way of performance.
You do know what site this is. And you do know no matter what they are not going to say anything posing about Nintendo, no matter the scope or performance. Your talking to gfx whores that state 30fps is good enough and how going below is acceptable because of the gfx. They even state how 30fps in a racing game is buttery smooth. 60fps in a racer. The devs even trick them saying the low frame rate was for cinematic reason and fanboys stated how 24fps was even acceptable.
"for one thing the cockpit view is just a smaller part of the higher resolution image" No it isn't. It's rendering separately from the main screen. It's basically doing double the drawcalls.
MrSec84: maybe you need to check some more videos for this game, There are multiple instances where the point of view on both screens are totally different. The gamepad one is always oon cockpit giew,but the TV one changes dinamically, sometimes putting the camera behind the Arwing, sometimes panning out and moving around in free camera mode for cinematic flair. And, as far as I know, you can swap the screens anytime, making the TV display the cockpit view and the gamepad display the dynamic view. So, this "separate rendering" may be valid, after all. I also think the game looks pretty rough, but taking all this into consideration, plus the fact that all Nintendo games look damn pretty (hence, they're nonot lazy)... I'm giving them the benefit of doubt. I have high hopes for this game, because Star Fox is one of my favoritfavorite franchises, having played and loved all of them, except Command.
@mrsec84 If they where mirroring that image you would be correct. When ever you have another camera in a scene you effectively render way more polygons and textures. For years we have used vis groups, culling groups, normal culling etc etc to dynamically lower the memory needed for just one view. Having a coctpit view that opens your render scope to at least 180 degrees almost doubles the amount that the frame buffer has to draw. This is also being done with way less ram than the ps4 and some really cool compression tech. Then it is streamed to the gamepad. Looks simple but is pretty high tech. Not really possible on the ps4 and the vita has its own gpu! I'm pretty sure this is a tech demo of the nx api and it makes the case for just a little more power and different render strategies using that game pad gpu or cpu from the patent. You can load assets and cull them once if both cameras are looking gernally in the same direction but performances goes way down when the view is separated and facing almost 30 to 80 degrees seperation. You can cull as much and that 60 fps would drop to 15fps. You can even try this out in any fps game mod tools. Find a camera texture have it pointing a different direction than where you are looking while still being able to see a wide open space. You will get a 30-50 frame penalty. Seriously 60fps is actually scary good for a power pc and old gpu with less ram. Hey you know you could alway just get a Dev kit and show nintendo up by making a better starfox with two screen play. Sadly they are not pulling a smaller screen off of a bigger one.
@MrSec On top of what everyone else said: Ultimately, do you think Nintendo made this game look bad with no reason? Just for the fun of it, after making some of the prettiest games this gen despite the weak hardware? No, there's a technical reason.
So he basically says the games success is based on nostalgia. It'll be fun because it has the arwing that "everyone is so familiar with." I'm slightly disappointed. There are amazing games that Nintendo had made this generation, 3D World, Splatoon, Smash, MarioKart, and 3rd/2nd party like Bayonetta 2 and Xenoblade Chronicles X. It just seems like they didn't put very much effort into this game. I understand and fully believe that visual style trumps realism, look at the WiiU Zelda for example. I love how that game looks. Star fox though is based at least a little on realism, and I have to say it looks like an HD port of a Wii game. We can't conclude anything just yet, but it doesn't look like its up to Nintendos normal standard.
Agreed its just a quick low budget cash grab to increase wiiu game library for 2015. The visuals are lazy, the 2 screen rendering at 60fps excuse is a cop out! bottom line hardly anyone likes using the stupid gyro to aim and second screen. If the game was unplayable the traditional way it would tank. The game just screams lazy and its sad to see people defend it.
"the 2 screen rendering at 60fps excuse is a cop out!" But when a Ps4/Xboxone game is locked at 30fps it's a design choice? " bottom line hardly anyone likes using the stupid gyro to aim and second screen. " Citations needed.
@chickey cantor Dude watch any gameplay live on youtube, read up about experiences of people who played it and you will see people talking about wanting a normal controll method. Thank god they are not forcing us to use the 2 screen set up. Its up to nintendo to show us the 2 screen wiiu set up is worthwhile, as a day 1 wiiu owner i have not been impressed. And what has ms and sony got to do with anything?? Jack $h1t! nintendo have said starfox wont be a big budget title, i remember reading it was only gonna be download only. Metroid federation force is a slap in the face to a hardcore metroid fan like myself! and starfox zero looks like nintendo cobbled it together and us not up to the high quality we as fans expect. Obviously this could change but i doubt it, skyward sword with its forced motion controls was one of the worst selling zelda games on a install base of 100million plus!
Citation needed, mate. I can also say that some players liked the motion controls after getting used to it. So which is it? "And what has ms and sony got to do with anything?? Jack $h1t! " Because Ps4 and Xone also have games locked at 30fps because of performance issues (read: Hardware ). But you aren't calling that a "cop out" or "lazy", must be a feature? This game is rendering to 2 separate buffers. So it is taxing on the GPU. It's surprising it doesn't look worse. You seem to forget that WiiU is not on the same level as PS4 or xbox one. "skyward sword with its forced motion controls was one of the worst selling zelda games on a install base of 100million plus!" Way to spin it. Implying all those "100 million plus" were hardcore gamers. I'm pretty sure you're the type that says "wii is targetted at soccer moms".
@chickeyCantor Spin it? Lmao dude wii was for casuals and soccer mums anyone who denies that is delusional maybe you are one of those? I am not gonna bother arguing with another Nintendo fanboy who thinks wii was for the core gamers! If that's how u feel great for you but most of us have moved on and can see how lost Nintendo currently is. Although I feel bad about iwata passing maybe now Nintendo will get there ass in gear. Lmao at people making a big deal about 2 screens at 60fps, when it's at such low fidelity no wonder it's easy to achieve!! Let's see wiiu render a game at higher fidelities. Don't get me wrong I love my wiiu, see my avatar pic I own all current gen consoles and love all 3. But I am a realist not a fanboy with my head in the cloud! Star fox barely has anything going on and also has ugly low poly models and low res textures, that's why it is 60fps both screens. I would prefer a proper star fox game with that wasted power of rendering another screen which mind you is not even rendering hd on the gamepad (lol) I would rather that power used on bigger levels, more enemies, online players dogfighting, a online co op mode, better physics and particle effects better ai etc That second screen is just another stupid gimmick Nintendo is throwing at us when old school gamers like me who buy every platform and support them all just want Nintendo to catch up and give us the basic features and visual fidelity we expect in today's games! Anyway u enjoy it mate I will be too but not using any stupid retarded motion or second screen, I will play it the traditional way and I bet it will be better that way. Sorry I am typing this on my Xbox one or I would if dug out some links for you, like I said if your happy with the game then move along but those of us who are not will express that! Accept we have different opinions sheesh Turned my pc on to give you some links: Gamespot by some one who HAS PLAYED THE GAME! http://www.gamespot.com/art... http://www.theverge.com/201... NintendoLife http://www.nintendolife.com... @zidane1341 You nailed it buddy thanks sometimes some people are not worth talking with because they are so delusional lol
At chickeycantor, well at least the Xbox one and ps4 have amazing, life like graphics. You can't say that about the Wii, try again? Also, LOL at anybody who doesn't think the original Wii was anything but a great gimmick for kids and soccer moms. Yeah, that's why Nintendo's reputation started to fall, right?? The Wii was fun at first but by its lifetime it became a shovelware joke. And too bad that that is general opinion, and not mine.
"Spin it? Lmao dude wii was for casuals and soccer mums anyone who denies that is delusional maybe you are one of those? " You said that Zelda skyward sword sold bad even though it had a huge install base. Now you're pointing out what I was saying: That install base had no interest in Skyward sword. Way to contradict yourself. Also TL:DR, don't care for your nonsense. You have no understanding of development nor technical limitations. "At chickeycantor, well at least the Xbox one and ps4 have amazing, life like graphics. You can't say that about the Wii, try again? " " life like graphics." " life like. " LOL! The point being made is that PS4 and xboxone are also running into hardware limitations but by LonDonE's logic they are lazy. Whether Ps4/Xone have "life like graphics" is irrelevant to technical limitations. The developers aren't lazy, the hardware simply doesn't allow for more in this setup. Asking for the same kind of visual fidelity on the WiiU is disingenuous, especially with 2 separate buffers. "Also, LOL at anybody who doesn't think the original Wii was anything but a great gimmick for kids and soccer moms." LonDonE said that skyward sword should have performed better but didnt due to motion controls. But the install base wasn't interested in zelda. He knows that and still used as a bad excuse. Thus spinning it. No one is denying what the majority of that install base was. Both of you aren't very bright. Learn to read. edit: "sometimes some people are not worth talking with because they are so delusional lol" The arrogance and irony escapes you.
How is "typing" on an XBox1 working for you?😌
" Hey idiot your obviously a but hurt fanboy and have a bad comprehension of the English language!! " Mate, the only one butt hurt is you. Just skimming over your wall of text shows that you largely missed the point. And might I add that you called me delusional simply because I pointed out the flaw in your logic calling these developers lazy. I'm not being rude, you're the arrogant one. As for being a " fanboy ". I explicitly said "It's surprising it doesn't look worse". I'm not saying the game looks bad but it isn't great either. Not sure how this makes me a fanboy. I'm simply telling you that your technical intel is garbage. rage on my friend.
"Star Fox is based at least a little on realism" What? Bipedal versions of animals flying around in Star Fighters battling each other is based on realism for you?
What I meant to say is the graphics are based a little on realism. That's the reason for all the complaints about the texturing. I was pretty clear about that. Until Dawn is based on realism, Killzone is based on realism. Saying a game is based on realism doesn't mean the story/gameplay/characters are realistic, it's about how they look graphically, a.k.a. The art style. And StarFox doesn't have a super unique art style.
I rather have great graphics than Miyamoto's gimmicks.
I would rather have a very fun game with great game play over button prompt visual movies! Everyone knows that the WiiU isn't high end tech, but people comparing it to ps2 have never played a ps2 game in their lives... The 3ds is more powerful than the ps2, are we realistically saying that StarFox looks like a 3ds game now.
Its funny cause in the until dawn article fanboys are saying Sony need more interactive movies to capture the casuals. Lmao it never stops. Before they was bashing f2p games on PC and mobile but want capcom f2p game that's gonna be a micro transaction gold mine. They down played paying for online play, but now have to pay to play a the other half of a game the spent 60 for. They downplayed point and click and adventure games but hype up until dawn. They downplay ninth and PC gamers for wanting the min to be 60fps, but brag when an exclusive is. Downplay star citizen but hype up a game that do way less. Downplay PC games until they get ported. Don't see difference between console and PC version, but can tell every gfx difference between the consoles. Downplayed VR way before Morpheus , than change there tune when Sony vr rumors came out. Brag about gfx, but say it doesn't matter when its not to their advantage in this console war. Brag about new gfx effects, but get mad and call people gfx whores when someone tell it was being done years before these next gen console s. Talk about gfx, resolution, gfx, gfx, how their console is the best, the greatest, gfx, but when a PC gamer say one thing about gfx, he's a gfx whore and they act like they're SUPERIOR (I love that on no one does this better than PS fanboys) Every genre that's not on consoles suck until they are on consoles or more so a Sony platform. That's n4psfanboys in a but shell
Too many people are making too big a deal over the damned graphics. They aren't going to make the game any less fun to play, for Christ's sake! Get over the graphical issue! It's petty, inane complaints like this that lead to games with great gameplay and replay value not getting the attention they deserve. I'm aware that there's better-looking games on the Wii U, but that doesn't mean that this game looks so atrocious that it won't be fun to play. I've been saying it since the start of the gen before last, and I'll keep saying it till it sticks; the graphics wars are a cancer to the gaming community. They should never matter so much that a game is dismissed for them, like so many are doing here!
To me it's not so much the graphics, but rather how empty the world seems. In the one demo we saw in space there really wasn't much going on; a generic gray circular space station, few enemy fighters, a plain star studded black background. I feel like they couldv'e used their imagination more, I mean it's space, there can be so many cool things (nebulas, broken starships, a nearby solar system, etc.) out there that help immerse you in the game. The environments also just look a little bland and uninspiring. One thing I love about video games is seeing amazing new things, crazy, unrealistic, unexpected, jaw dropping. I'm with you on gameplay or graphics, I still play Ocarina of time and the old Punch Out in my spare time. But in Ocarina of Time there were always unique enemies and cool things in the environment. From the videos and screenshots of StarFox that we've seen so far the world just doesn't seem very immersive and hasn't gotten me too excited for it. I hope it proves me wrong when it releases.
That's a fair point; they could have done a lot more in terms of what they put out there for aesthetics. But let's keep in mind that a lot of what we've seen is still small glimpses. Even that one space battle was taking place around what seemed to be a huge space station; with your team scattered around so much, it would be pretty hard to keep track of all the enemies chasing them around, not to mention your objectives, if the different ships started blending in with background stuff like colorful galaxies and exploding supernovas. It's also simply one of the many levels out there; Zoness got an overhaul to use the Gyrocopter and the Landmaster now has a full-out flight mode during its own missions, and even in the very first level, switching how you kill the boss by either taking out its weak points as an Arwing or invading its very body with the Raptor mech mode actually affects whether he gets away or dies in the end. Little touches like that are what will make the game a make-or-break. There's a lot of ingenuity on display thus far, and we haven't even seen 10% of what's on offer. It's exciting to think about all the undiscovered new surprises that are awaiting us in the full game, yet all anyone seems to want to do is complain about the graphics. It's frustrating to see so many gamers take such a shallow complaint so far, even to the extent of using it as a reason to skip the game, when it isn't going to affect the gameplay quality in the slightest.
Thank you! It was never the graphics mind you(though they look smooth to me). I think most people are having problems saying is that they mean from what we seen so far the game in It's areas shown so far are lacking content. It just seems a bit too plain. It's like a cheeseburger without the lettuce, tomato, onion, and sauce inside. It is still perfectly delicious, but seems rather plain or a bit off. Perhaps it isn't the best example or comparison, but that's the way I feel about the game. It still worth the fun, but you know it kinda lacks a bit. You never know though, nintendo overvalues quality over content. So they may suprise us.
I would not take it so seriously. None of the people who complain on here actually have money to buy games. Sales of PS4 and xbox games proves this. Even huge, heavily marketed, high quality games, only sell to 4% of the install base on PS4. Great games like Bloodborne and Metal gear 5, even the witcher 3 struggle to sell to more than 1 in 20 people who own a ps4. What are all the other ps4 owners doing with their ps4s? Watching porn and playing sports games?
Cant wait to pick this game up.
Same here, graphics aren't everything.
I could give this game a pass on graphics because it's clear and looks fun. But graphics do matter when things aren't properly rendered, blurry textures, pixel crawl, etc.
Having a different viewpoint on the controller was a stupid decision. They should have just had the same view with some additional UI elements for co-ordinating the team on top. Cockpit view should have just been a button press for both screens.
People really do need to calm down a lot, this game is basically a remaster or retelling of what is considered by many to be the best StarFox game in the series. They weren't trying to break the bank with high production values, it's more of a fan service than anything.
it not a remaster or a retelling.
Yeah I know it's not a remaster, but people seem to be more accepting of that when it's in front of most games. Not to mention since Nintendo is planning on going full swing in the NX direction soon, I would much rather Nintendo have Platinum work on Bayonetta 3 or something new for the NX launch!
I believe it actually is a retelling. That's why they called it zero, because it's a reboot.
Yes, it is. Which arguably means that it can be considered a remaster, just like Star Fox 64 was a remaster / retelling of the original SNES Star Fox game.
The more I see of this game, the less I want it. Nintendo really should have put Treasure or Sakurai in charge of the project, Sin and Punishment 2 and Kid Icarus Uprising were better Star Fox games than anything Nintendo has put out in the series since 64
It's got platinum games working on it. People have been begging nintendo to let platinum work on star fox for years. Remember that starfox section in bayo 2? It was perfect so I have faith that they'll do a good job, although I don't think we've seen anything on par with that, in sfz yet.
Not only that maybe Nintendo just wants to see how it's received before Platinum makes a big budget StarFox for the NX.
Eh it's star fox and it is a wii u game running 60 FPS and it looks like fun. I am really not terribly concerned about the graphics. I am buying this because it will be fun to play. Besides, in 10 years or so this game will be selling for 40 to 50 bucks still. The gyro controls can be turned off and it is a Ninty game people. I am sure it will be fun because they all are.
Some people REALLY need to revisit a PS2 game, or even PS3 for that matter. Then come back to me a - after actually PLAYING Star Fox - tell me that the differences are minimal. This new Star Fox looks solid and runs at a buttery smooth framerate.
yeah , if wii u had a stronger hardware i think iwata would still be strong for nintendo , but weak ssystem= dead people.
how does that make any sense?
What? I really don't understand what you mean.
Another reminder that gamers never actually prefer gameplay over graphics :)
I like it, the colour palette, the style of the water physics. it all seems very reminiscent of old 90's computer tech. it almost seems nostalgic in that respect.it also strongly reminds me of arcade games which I love. my only complaint is that it seems a little unfinished right now, but that could change further into development.
Gonna have to pass up on this one which is sad as it had so much potential but then again im not paying for something that looks like it was made for the ps2. ;)
I can appreciate a graphical comprimise to nail these performance benchmarks on two screens.. ..compared to the opposite common practice ;)
forget about graphic, how about they add more things like you know co-op or have mission based were you can choose different space ships you can unlock, and not based it on gimmicks.
Honestly, if you bought a Wii U for the incredible graphics, you made a poor decision. The fact that there is so much discussion concerning the graphics of a Wii U game... makes me feel as if all the people complaining either made that poor decision or do not own a Wii U. And saying it looks like a PS2 game is really stretching it.
Games like this find themselves between a rock and a hard place. If you don't put enough detail in the art style, then players who expect more out of a next-gen console will have a bad time. However, if you make the game too realistic then one of two things will happen: The frame rate will drop, or there will be an outcry from Star Fox fans claiming the realistic graphics made the game lose its charm.
A total of 120 FPS...They decided to go with gameplay instead of graphics... well this is Nintendo, not Activision.
I've said it before and it can only be estimated but what percentage of Gamecube buyers do you think bought a Wii? I guess that underwhelming tech put some off so I'm guessing two thirds. And perhaps 40 percent of gc to wii buyers bought a WiiU. So 2/3 x 2/5 = less than one third of GC owners, so estimate of 7 million of Gamecube's owners, especially if they since have children of their own, later bought a WiiU. Which, by my rather conservative sounding estimates, means that only 3 million 'casuals' buyers so far. Still don't think a price drop might be worth a punt? I honestly think they just want to make the NX look inexpensive by comparison with a line up of remasters or downloadable games, this game included, that feel fresh because few have owned a WiiU. NX sales will be 15 to 25 million I think.
I know people for some reason or another feel that Nintendo is the only company that is in a box and somehow they will never sell more than 10-15 million consoles again. But if the NX is able to bring back the main 3rd party developers and have equal access to similar quality titles that are on the 3ds, the NX is going to fly off shelves. If the next handheld and home console can both share and play the next Bravely Default, Fire Emblem, Luigi's Mansion, Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter, Pokémon, Zelda, Metroid, Xenoblade, Splatoon, 3ds Mario, Mario Kart and Smash Bros just to name a few. The NX would already be in a completely different camp than the WiiU had this generation.