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Carmack: Xbox 360 Is the Better Platform for Contemporary Games

Id Software technical director John Carmack has said that it's easier to realise the potential of the Xbox 360 hardware.

"What you can say really quite clearly and not get into too much argument about it is that the 360 is much easier to develop for, it's easier to get the performance out of it that it can deliver, and the rasterizer, the GPU side is generally faster than what the PS3 has," Carmack told Eurogamer at QuakeCon.

The debate about the relative strengths of Microsoft and Sony's competing next-generation platforms has raged since well before either hit the market, but Carmack is arguably among the best-placed to judge the hardware given his extensive study of both architectures and his driving role in the design of the id Tech 5 engine.

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iceice1233418d ago

I am sure all fellow gamers will also agree with his remark. The 360, being a pure gaming machine, makes it the obvious choice for all your gaming needs.

Dark vader3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

LOL next time read the article before posting. lol he did not even say that in the interview.

MikeGdaGod3418d ago

but its a decent substitute until i get my ps3 back.

if i could only have one i'd pick the ps3 just because it has more of the games i like to play.

CrazzyMan3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

GT5P owns graphically in racing games.
Ratchet owns graphically in 3D adventures games.
Uncharted/MGS4 owns graphically in 3rd person action games.
KZ2 owns graphically in FPS on consoles.
Naruto owns graphically in anime-based games.

Did i miss something?

And yes, 1st year of PS3 life, many multiplatform games weren`t running on ps3 as good as on x360, BUT that is changing. This won`t last forever, tide will change.
Moreover, many 2008 multiplatform games runs and looks on ps3 as good as x360 versions, if not better sometimes. =)
and there are:
2009
2010
2011
2012
atleast 4 GREAT gaming years on PS3 for both multiplatform and exclusives games.

3418d ago
Lucreto3418d ago

360 is good for gaming but the PS3 is the box under my TV that does everything. Hell I can check my email and my bank accounts from the the PS3 and it is getting better and better.

sonarus3418d ago

It may be easier to get performance but time and time again PS3 has proved itself that it can top the best the 360 has to offer. Sure it will take 2x the man power but it will still top it.

incogneato3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

John Carmack is just a lazy bastard who dislikes change and challenge. The fact is PS3 has the best looking games, no one can deny this.

He's been repeating this same crap since the beginning of the generation, saying the PS3's architecture isn't good for games. The ironic part is his company just released a press statement yesterday detailing that the 360s old DVD9 hardware is causing limitations and will receive a lower quality version of their game because of it.

I much rather have a console that's difficult to master + innovative developers (like the PS3 has)

than have a console that's easy to developer for + uninspired developers (like the 360 has)

HighDefinition3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

MSFT better prove it w/ their 2009 line-up.

Cause Killzone2/MAG/Infamous looks FAR better than ANYTHING the 360 has to offer in 2009 @ this point.

Real Gambler3418d ago

Still, so far he has said that DVD is not big enough for games and the PS3 is hard to program.

In one year from now, DVD will still be too small but PS3 will be easier.

In two years from now, DVD will still be too small and PS3 will be even easier to program.

In three years from now, DVD will be obsolete for games, and good PS3 programmers will be a dime a dozen. (Well, maybe 900K a year a dozen...)

Really hoping he is including keyboard and mouse in his game too btw.

thebudgetgamer3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

If you were doing a whole lot of simulation, you can in theory get more performance out of the Cell processor than out of the two other dual-thread processors on the 360, but that's a big 'in theory'," he acknowledged.

heavy rain says hello

btw its all personal preference who am i to tell you what console to like best play what you like that's whats awesome about this generation of video games so much choice so play on
people

Sarick3418d ago

The games won't look as good on the 360 versions do to size constraints. Something about games being on 2 DVDs using compression and the royalties from a 3rd disk wasn't feasible?

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong. I think an there was a resent article here on N4G of him stating that the 360's media format caused serious problems.

If this is the best platform why would he make the other statement then make a contradiction?

incogneato3418d ago

I should've known this came from Eurogamer.net

A 360 fanboy site. No where does he say the 360 is "Better," he just said it was "Easier."

His own company said that the 360 is causing limitations due to their DVD format, and the quality of the games will suffer on the 360.

Xiru3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

Read the article. He clearly says the PS3 "could" be superior, but you would have to go out of your way to do it. Meaning that developers would need to put a little more effort into their games. I'm guessing developers have gotten used to a certain way of making games, and the PS3 frustrates them. I can understand this, and he is being honest. He still feels PS3 has the advantage, even if it is only "in theory".

beavis4play3418d ago

sony 1st party is doing some kick @ss games. then there is MGS4...done by third party.

mikeslemonade3418d ago

360 is the now and PS3 is the future. If you haven't noticed half of the 360 exclusives have issues running on 360 just like some of the multiplatform games on PS3 have issues. 360 simply has more games because it came out a year earlier and has sold the more than the PS3 and sells more games. But that is about to change when Soul Calibar sells more on the PS3 and Killzone 2 only uses 4.5 of the cores. A year from now 360 will no longer be the primary system for games.

deeznuts3418d ago

He also says Blu-Ray may make the Ps3 the decisive winner!

"Id Software technical director John Carmack has said that it's easier to realise the potential of the Xbox 360 hardware but that the PS3 has certain theoretical advantages, and he speculates that Blu-ray could play a decisive role in the console war in future. "

Right in the first paragraph. I'm going to add eurogamer to my mental list of fanboy sites. That title is misleading as hell.

"You could design a game where the PS3 would be the superior platform, but you'd have to go out of your way to do it. If you're doing a game like people just want to do games now, the 360's the better platform."

So I can make an article saying, Carmack: PS3 "superior platform"

boodybandit3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

"360's the better platform for *contemporary* games - Carmack"

um isn't it against the rules to change the title?

But then what can you expect from someone that post this in their bio?
"I have a great disdain towards Sony fanboys. I do not understand their bizarre emotional attachment to their console. I will try to be a positive influence to N4G."

WOW! Your N4G score is 1469530!
Do you ever leave your PC?

beoulve3418d ago

I totally agree too, for last gen games. This gen not so much due to lack of space.

MNicholas3418d ago

Carmack is right that the PS3 has a decisive technical advantage in having the Blu-Ray player.

He is right to say that when used conventionally the Xbox360 GPU is faster than the one in the PS3. The 360 works best when developers treat it like a PC and this is how Carmack likes to do things ... he has gone on record to state this a million times.

The caveat is that the PS3 GPU, when used in PS3 specific methods, where the geometry data and textures are preprocessed using the CELL and then force-fed through the specially designed data cache, is much faster. This is why games like GT5, MGS4, KZ2, Uncharted are all graphically head and shoulders above similar games on 360. This isnt just my opinion but that of game reviewers around the world.

It's true that PS3 development is very tricky and some of the bugs that show up in development are so complex that developers are left exhausted trying to solve them but now that Sony is finally providing developers with decent development support the job of 3rd party developers is becoming easier and soon they too will be able to produce games that perform as well as GT5 and Uncharted in terms of polygons, textures, lighting, shadows, etc...

As Carmack said, the 360 is very easy to max out and we've already seen it's best. However, in terms of performance, there's still plenty of headroom in the PS3.

MNicholas3418d ago

He been on the Microsoft XBox board of advisors ... despite his occasional disagreements with Microsoft on the PC side of things, when it comes to Microsoft's Xbox division he's 100% on board with them.

robep33417d ago

TO quote John "it's easier to get the performance out of it"
ie WE CANT get the performance from the PS3 as easy that DOESN'T mean that 360 is better it just means ID cant develope games for the PS3 like other dev's can!!!!!!
He wont admit they cant do it LOL!!! not as great as people think he is then IS he.

Rob

Idonthatejustcreate3417d ago

FACT!

This has been said by game developers:

Statement 1
Developing a game from scratch on the PS3 will make the game look better and run better as multiplat.

Example: Brunout Paradise

Statement 2
If you develop a game for the PS3's cell then developing for the xbox and Wii is like a no brainer.

FACT!

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Mikelarry3418d ago

kerosine to the already raging console war fire.

La Chance3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

than anybody on N4G about what he's talking about but people are still going to be in denial.

The great majority of devs prefer the 360 , its almost like common knowledge now.

Ive realised its pretty much useless debating on N4G because people no matter what , on both camps, are always going to be in full denial mode.

@the wood below : yeah , I agree , I wasnt saying the 360 was a better machine or more powerful.Even he didnt say that.But its common knowledge now that the 360 will always (well..if things carry on like this) be the devs "favourite" console.

No matter who or what happens people are just going to act like it isnt true (Im talking for both "sides").Its easier that way.

The Wood3418d ago

then why has nothing passed gears yet. If its so easy it doesn't necessarily mean its better does it. Do you know how much hard work goes into tuning an F1 car vs a gt car. Progression is never easy. I think that the ps3 has proved that its a complicated system to dev for but you can yield great results

The Lazy One3418d ago

Not much has passed gears on EITHER console. Killzone is comparable to gears 2, but it's not even out yet. Uncharted was good, but not nearly as detailed. MGS4 was good too, but again not as detailed.

Killzone 2, Bioshock, Gears/2, and Rage are the most graphically impressive games I've seen so far (graphics not art). I haven't seen GAMEPLAY from many other games that compares.

Ateanboy3417d ago

-- if you honestly think that Gears 2 comes even CLOSE to how Killzone 2 is looking.

Have you SEEN the latest videos of Killzone 2? The graphics are AMAZING. Almost UNBELIEVABLE.

And have you seen the Gears 2 graphics? They are nowhere near as groud-breaking as Gears 1 was. Which, by the way, I must admit, they where VERY fvcking ground-breaking. But Gears 2? Meh.

PS3 games have SIGNIFICANTLY superior graphics. That's fact. IT's undeniable.

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Deviant3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

hasnt this been posted about 100 times now ....
ur news are pathic

Solid_Snake6663418d ago

considering all xbox fanboys look like the pic above

TheColbertinator3418d ago

I did'nt know Bloodmask was still contributing

Pain3418d ago

Since XBOX is a PC and they PC software guys.

theKiller3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

lets see, if they pay more than a million or get a damn good and permanent job for me i could give it a try!! even though i might fail in the acting but the word certainly will leave my mouths!!

on topic!! he got some MS USD up his ars!

EDIT

but i might agree with him in one thing, that is that 360 is easier to develop for, and because of this reason the DEV's reached the liimit of 360 when gears of war and bioshock arrived last year! meaning from now on 360 game wont get better in graphics than those game, maybe at best they can push very few pixels at best!!

and harder does not mean weaker, those who works hard enough will get rewarded and will show their commitment in their games, and those who is lazy and want easy games and cheap shot games will choose the 360!
and it looks this guy is a cheap shot, and i will say from now that his company games will never be successful if he continues to think and act the way he does now!

zapass3418d ago

I'm sorry John, I can't let you get away with that one:
It may be harder to code for but you're full of sh!t if you say it's not as powerful.

I guess this industry is merciless with aging coding rock-stars?

If it's too difficult for ya, we understand but just step aside buddy, there are many young coders out there who are not afraid of parallel programming.

power of Green 3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

A techie's way of saying the 360 is superior lol.

We already know this, you're right yet I dissagree lol.

hahahaha, I got 21 dissagree's for saying the same thing in the Rage thread with almost 600 hundred comments in it.

MAiKU3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

A techie's way of saying he's too stupid to program for a better console. LOL

We already hear this all the time, and yet the software tells the fate of the war. LOL

hahahaha, you did because you posted in a news area where the favor was the opposing crowd.

power of Green 3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

In theory PS3 can outperform 360 lol, that means on paper, that Sony provided(In theory a person with a highest IQ should be president of the united states?.)

I hear KZ2 excuses as if the game would not be superior on the 360. If you wan't to use games like KZ2 as an excuse when it comes to money and time(for PS3 developemnt done right) the same can be said about Alan Wake and SO4 etc. lol

MSFT make a concession for that 3rd disc, so Rage can be the superior console version the devs know they can get from the 360. Can Sony make a concession for PS3's inferior hardware(RAM/GPU-speed? + graphics card), not likely.

syanara3418d ago

great point u deserve bubbles everybody GIVE PAIN BUBBLES!!!

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Viktor E3418d ago

The damage done was just too great,I'm a Sony supporter and even I never expected the most respected PC developer in the Industry to drop such a huge bomb shell yesterday.

I mean,it's just not even a matter of being a fanboy anymore,him admitting the Xbox 360s Disc limitations and Compression problem will hurt the graphics of his new Engine and game,it was just wow.

pumpkinpunker3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

is not a bombshell?

all they have to do to fix the compression problem is release the game on 3 dvds. there is nothing they can do to change the PS3's slower GPU and less utility ram.

@viktor

He never said that the Blu-ray makes "for better graphics." Reread the article. Carmack said that in order to fit their game on two dvds he would have to compress the programming thus resulting in reduced performance. He said that the solution to this is releasing the game on 3 dvds . Personally, I think he's blowing a lot of hot air and the studio just needs to buckle down and economize their coding. If GTA4 and Fallout 3 can fit on one disc then anything this gen should be able to. Besides this game doesn't look great enough to legitimize a 3 dvd release.

Repeat it ten times until it sinks in. The 360 has a better, faster GPU (graphics processing unit) and that is a pretty big deal. The quality of a GPU is a big factor in determining how well a game like Crysis looks on my PC.

Viktor E3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

All his upcoming games are Multi platform,so him saying one platform is easier to develop on is just another developer expressing their difficulties with Ps3 development.

All this time Ps3 fans have been saying Blu Ray is better,it's needed for games,it makes for better graphics,etc,and the only proof was always Sony and their close partners touting the format.Carmack isn't exactly known as a partner of Sony,so to hear him state the Xbox 360 is indeed outdated hardware and his game and Engine will suffer on the Xbox 360 as a result of the outdated hardware,I mean,you can find the story on the front page and read the comments for yourself.

Edit: "he would have to compress the programming thus resulting in reduced performance"-And without the Compression,the Graphics and overall Performance for the Xbox 360 version would be on par with the Graphics and overall Performance on the Ps3 and PC version.

It's quite clear that Carmack and his team have hit a Wall with 360 development,painted on the Wall is "DVD9".

Xiru3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

You guys act as if the GPU is 100x slower than the 360's, its not. The 360 has about a 5% better GPU in raw performance. The Cell has so much more power than the 360's CPU. The ram is only an issue because it is split 256/256. The 360 has 512mb shared ram. The advantages the PS3 has over the 360 are bigger than the ones the 360 has over the PS3. Also, the Cell can take some of the load off of the GPU, but it would take extra development time and learning. This is most likely what Carmack is talking about.

And to the guy who disagreed, I know a bit about computers, so I know what I'm talking about. Go look up the specs for each system and then compare the benchmarks. You will see the results are minimal, and the PS3 can actually outperform the 360 when the cell is called on to perform gpu functions. But sure, disagree all you want. Ignorance is bliss isn't it?

pwnsause3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

no ones saying that the GPU on the 360 is slow. everyone knows the 360 has a small GPU advantage over the PS3. but as it has been stated before, Storage is becoming a problem for the 360, games that developers are making today are becoming so ambitious to make, that its making DVD space reach its limit. Yes its true that it is easier to make games on the 360 because it is based on the PC architecture, but Microsoft did a big mistake with the 360.

They wanted to be the first company to release a console this Generation so that they can get a market share and popularity advantage over Sony and its PS3, in the process they sacrificed 2 things in order to get market share and popularity, HDD standard on a console, and a built in HD-DVD drive(HD-DVD specs were done and read to ship when Microsoft launched the 360, they should of done a deal with TOshiba to put it in there). Now these things are coming back to haunt them.

People Like Dan Houser has stated that if Microsoft wants the next GTA game to be on their Console, they have to do something about storage, because it limiting developers from making a game. 2k games had trouble the other day on trying to fit content on a freaking Baseball game to a DVD9, MLB 2k8, they had to distribute the content thru DLC. John Carmack, a man who prefers to make games on the 360, stated word of Mouth, that the 360 might not get good games from them because the ID Tech 5 Engine is just massive and they have to downgrade it on the 360 in order for their games to at least fit into 2 discs and not 3 so they dont have to pay for extra royalties.

This of course gets deeper with Final Fantasy XIII going multi-platform. one of things that had PS3 owners hyped for was that Square Enix was going to take advantage of a 50gb BD disc in order to attempt to make the game look as close to CGI as possible by giving the game High-res textures, High-Res Character Models, etc. With the 360 version now on the Map, how can a game such a FFXIII fit on a DVD9 disc while trying to make both versions look as identical as possible? are they going to gimp the PS3 version in order to make it identical to the 360 version?

MAiKU3418d ago

Two words. Damage Control.

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CViper3418d ago (Edited 3418d ago )

Why are there 0 titles that can technically compete with any PS3 exclusives?

Clearly the 360 is great for multiplatform development. Because its like coding for a medium spec PC from 2005.When you ignore multithreading and broadband procs and concentrate focus solely on GPU like PC games, well.. which console do you think is going to come out on top?

Ignore all of the specs of the PS3, make a game on it. Say "Man this thing sucks, the gpu is lame. Thats like buying a 911 turbo, removing the turbo, taking away the Aerodynamics, tires.. and then calling it slow.

But then, when someone uses the PS3. Like say... Infinity Ward, or Criterion. They get amazing results for multiplatform development. How about someone go ahead and point out what MULTIPLATFORM games perform better than Ps3 exclusives.

I'll wait. And I really will take the disagrees as "Buh buh... well I have nothing to say, and there are no multiplatform games that top big PS3 exclusives from technical stand points.." Else, go ahead and name some titles. If not.. theres the door.

edit:

Wow, misleading N4G title as usual. He didn't say anything of the sort.

DiabloRising3418d ago

Both systems are great, but I agree with you Viper. I love the amount of disagrees you are getting, as people seem to ignore the reality of the situation and cling to dev quotes above you know... actual games.

beavis4play3418d ago

i'm with you viper. i'll take actual games like ratchet, uncharted, MGS4, GT5p over talk any day.

TheMART3417d ago

Games that can compete? You're joking right?

Why is it that the PS3 only has one exclusive on or over 90% average score? ANd only 5 games in total over that score?

http://www.metacritic.com/g...

Why is it that the 360 got 13 games over 90% average, with 5 (console) exclusive and one extra timed exclusive for 1.5 years?

http://www.metacritic.com/g...

Sounds like sh!t is coming out of every hole in your buddy, not only talking out of your ass, but just simple nonsense.

lagoonalight3417d ago

You seriously look more and more the dooshbag every time you bring up metacritic

nobody cares

juuken3417d ago

Well said.

And that title is ridiculously misleading. I read the article and he did not say that the 360 was more superior or it's the better platform. I hate Eurogamer with a passion. They always try to spin negative PS3 news.

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