Dorian of Dragon Age: Inquisition: Why Gaming's 'Breakout' Gay Character Matters

Gamers and critics welcomed Dragon Age: Inquisition with its revolutionary LGBT content, but online conversation still lags behind.

[SeanScythe]

You do not speak for all us gamers.

[Bansai]

Dragon Age: Political Corectness

Screw that sh*t, I'm tired of all this tiptoeing around LGBT.

[cleft5]

I feel like Dorian was a missed opportunity, and I will say so right now.

Also sorry for the wall of text.

***************SPOILER WARNING*********************

Through out the Dragon Age series you constantly hear references to the Tevinter Imperium Magistrates, these guys are the big bad wolves. They are the ones who enter the Golden City (basically Heaven or Olympus) and tried to claim the power and throne of the gods. For this they where punished by being cast out and cursed to be Dark Spawn. I am simplifying so I can get to my point.

This culminates in the main bad guy in Inquisition being a Tevinter Imperium Mage. So they are portrayed as the big evil and relations with Tevinter, a country where mages rule isnt portrayed in a positive light either. Fenris (from Dragon Age 2) is a Tevinter Fugitive and he absolutely hates mages from Tevinter and mages in general really because of the horrible things they did to him and others. Every time Tevinter comes up through the series they are portrayed as evil or cruel.

Here comes Dorian in Inquisition and he is, of all things, a Tevinter Imperium Magistrate. You learn about him and how the hierarchy works in Tevinter. You find out that not only is he a mage with some standing but he is a high noble. This guy is a big deal over there.

Whats even more fascinating is that Dorian doesnt agree with the current status quo and he wants to change things in Tevinter. With his class standing he definitely could do it.

So what does Bioware do with his loyalty quest? Well instead of focusing on his beliefs, motivations, stances, and the major point that he is a Tevinter Magistrate they decided to do a lame moral story about the fact that he is gay. What is this moral story, why its the classic I am gay and my daddy doesnt love me because he doesnt understand me story.

Here we have a Tevinter Magistrate, here we have a character whose ideals go against the majority, here we have a character that should be despised by everyone based on the history the game has built up about Tevinter and the fact that the main bad guy is also a Tevinter Magistrate yet Bioware decides to go the "I am gay and my parents dont love me route."

In fact, the issue of him being a Tevinter Mage barely even comes up. There is like one scene where a character that doesnt matter says one thing to you about him having a bad influence on you. Its laughable.

It is such a huge missed opportunity. Instead of making him into a gay person hated by his parents because they are homophobes, Bioware could have made him into a Tevinter Imperium Magistrate with his own set of goals and ideals. He still could have been gay and they still could have made it openly known. Dorian is such an important character, not because he is openly gay but because he is a Tevinter Imperium Magistrate from a high noble family.

The fact that Bioware missed this is a huge misstep and made Dorian less than what he could have been. On a side note, Dorian character screams "I am a gay stereotype." I wouldnt call Dorian's character progressive at all and his loyalty quest certainly wasnt progressive.

Its sad because everything they get wrong with Dorian they get right with Vivian. The least important fact about Vivian is that she is Black and thats a good thing. Skin color, sexuality, and gender doesnt define a good character. What a character does is what defines a good character. They remember that lesson for Vivian but completely forget it for Dorian.

[ABizzel1]

I would say I'm surprised by some of the comments in here, but when you can hide behind a screen it makes cowardice so much easier.

When I don't want to hear a song on the radio, I turn the station. When I don't want to see a show on TV, I turn the channel. When I don't want to eat at a restaurant or see a movie, I go somewhere else.

I can't for the life of me understand why the majority of us so called "straight people" can't do the same.

It baffles as to why something that has absolutely no effect on you and your life, marriage, or your finances can be such a concern to you.

If I didn't want to play a game with LGBT characters in it, I wouldn't buy it and I would never go to any article regarding said game, yet here you are with the most ridiculous excuses as to why 2 consenting adults / or in the case why a Rated M game in a same sex relationship bothers you.

The children excuse is so ignorant, because as a parent you should be in control of what your child consumes, and if a topic is brought up you should be the one to inform your child honestly so they're prepared for the different types of people in the world. If you don't approve of homosexuality that's fine, and that's your right to teach it to your children, but when that dislike interferes with someones rights don't cry about it when you or your children are in court regarding it, and suffering financial burdens simply because you're too ignorant to agree to disagree and move on. And the ignorance here is that it's fine for mass murder, stealing, vehicular homicide, war, and more vile things to be in games, but Oh No, you draw the line at same sex relationships.....

The mental condition is not homosexuality, it's you people who have an unreasonable dislike and delusional view of something that effects you in absolutely no way.

The politically correct argument is ignorant as well. "Politically correct" Asian, European, South American, Native American, and all kinds of demographics in-between in the world. There are male, female, gay, bi-sexual, trans, and more all in the world. Having character represent these people is not being "politically correct" it's showing reality, whether you like it or not.

And at the end of the day if you don't like it don't buy and support it. And if it bothers you that much, then as Americans are quick say, "leave". No one's keeping you here, or forcing you to stay and participate / purchase / or live around something you don't want to be a part of.

Pack your family up and move away. But seeing how you're on a gaming forum venting you can't do that can you. So suck it up and get over it. There are gay people in the world, move on. There are black people in the world, move on. There are ignorant people in the world and on this forum, ignore them. If you really don't care then get out of this article and any other topic involving homosexuality and leave these people alone.

[JsonHenry]

Pander much?

[psuedo]

Hahaha yes they do. That's all this is, is a pander site. Anyways I've been against this since they announced it, but oh well it's just a sign of the times.

[AndrewLB]

Agreed. The never ending push by the progressive left to force society into accepting mental illness and other unnatural behavior as some sort of new normal, will be looked back upon by historians as something akin to ancient Rome's moral decay and a major factor in current modern societies downfall. People are getting sick and tired of being told that you're a bigot, homophobe, etc if you don't immediately play along with their political game. It's amazing how less than 1% of the population has managed to hold everyone else hostage with their "velvet mafia" tactics because all it would take is just the slightest pushback in order to stop this craziness.

btw... so when are we to expect sequential hermaphrodites and trannies to take the leading role in a bioware game? I can see it now... Mass Effect 4 will definitely have a new race that's somewhat akin to the Asari but instead of hot, hard bodied blue females... they'll all be big muscle-men but with a demeanor similar to a Solarian.

@LightofDarkness

It's nowhere near 2.5% of the population as a whole. Those numbers have been greatly exhaggerated over the years by LGBT activists in order to push their agenda in schools and to convince the normal people in society that their perversions are normal and thus require being given a sort of "protected status" in society. This is why they're trying to convince everyone that this should be treated as the new civil rights movement similar to the 1960's even though homosexuality is a non-genetic "learned" behavior as proven by multiple studies of identical twins where one or more is gay. In fact, I know a guy who he and his identical twin straight brother took part in one of the studies and both now agree that while you may not have much of a choice on the matter, it's still a "learned" trait.

[rainslacker]

@Andrew

Tolerating or accepting something, does not mean that people think or are expected to think that it's normal. Societal and cultural norms are norms because they are normal, and the things you discuss aren't normal. Whether 2.5% or 1%, it's still well below what is normal. But just because they aren't normal, doesn't mean that we shouldn't respect others, and tolerate those that may be different than the norm.

If it's harmful to society in some way, then yes, one should push back, but I fail to see how any of the things being discuss here are harmful to anyone, or how they contribute to the moral decay of society.

While some extreme agendas may ask for you to consider something normal, most of it is just asking to be treated with respect, dignity, and to be tolerated...and to stop being treated like some sort of social pariah, because many of these people also have strong moral values and do their civic duty just like us normal people. While I can't cite numbers, I'd imagine the percentage of a**hats within the LGBT community is about the same as within the normal society.

Since you like to use the slippery slope argument, I'll just put this here, because while not exactly what you're talking about, it's pretty much the same argument

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[LightofDarkness]

@AndrewLB:

Manure. Back those claims up with these majority/multiple studies. And just to further prove how little you know about genetics and the science you abuse and twist to suit a hateful agenda, identical twins are not, in fact, identical. They are effectively as diverse as other siblings from one another, they only look similar (i.e., not identical, just similar). Scientists have already identified medical causes for homosexuality (e.g. exposure to larger amounts of the opposite sex's dominant hormones in utero), including identifying a few genetic traits.

[LightofDarkness]

What exactly is your problem with it?

[sonic989]

beside enforcing it at schools and making it normal on streets so that my children can be exposed to such a crap plus teaching them things at schools i disallow in my home .
and spreading it to the point where there is no way to avoid it which will make me have to flee away from the country or the place i live in all together just to save my future generations from this kind of trash .
thats in short what my problem with it and i didnt state the full list of reasons thats like 10 % of it .

[LightofDarkness]

Thanks for chiming in.

But that doesn't answer it. What bothers you about it? Don't hide behind the kids, that's a trite logical fallacy that' trotted out to obscure the real issue at hand. Why does it bother YOU, specifically? What bearing does it have on your life? Why is it WRONG? And if you have no answer greater than "god says so" or just because you find it all a bit icky, well here's the good news: you aren't being forced to do any of it. You're merely angry because you think it's kind of gross and don't like being made aware of its existence. TOUGH. It's a fact of life. It's reality. 2.5% of the world's population is A LOT of people. They shouldn't be made to feel ashamed of themselves for their own nature just because you thinks it's all a bit icky. It's not about you. This world was not built solely for you.

I'm not gay and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I think it's great that people are trying to actively include more gamers of different backgrounds. Movies used to be simple one genre, two-dimensional things as well. Then around the 60s and 70s all the genres started blending together and the characters became more diverse, like real people in real situations. And cinema enjoyed a golden age, free from the shackles of shame and censorship. Gaming is beginning to evolve into the art form it was destined to become, regardless.

[LightofDarkness]

Wow, what a non-answer. Poor, persecuted you. Truly, woe betides you. How about you go ahead and give me the best reason you've got? No one said you couldnt. Talk about a strawman.

I've yet to hear a good one, regardless. This isn't really the forum for such a discussion, but then I'm not the one who just had to let everyone know how they don't like it "cuz it's gay."

[FunAndGun]

wow sonic989, that is pretty drastic. fleeing the country/place you live because you don't agree with how other people live on account of it being icky?

There are gay people in the world, that is just a fact. Are you really expecting to shield your children from everything you don't like?

If a person is gay, a person is gay. being exposed to the fact that there are gay people will not turn your child gay.

lol, "save my future generations from this kind of trash" I can guarantee there will be gay individuals within your family at some point if there already is not. Are you the type of parent that would disown their own child if they came out of the closet?

[Christopher]

I'm forced to accept and let my children be around bigots. I don't see why you should complain about having to let your children around people with things you don't agree with either. As long as no one is hurting each other, we should be okay, right?

[rainslacker]

@Sonic

I think what he's asking for is what would you tell your kids about why you think it's bad or wrong.

You don't have to answer to anyone here, nor should it matter if you are persecuted for your beliefs on here. If you want to hold to them so steadfastly, you should at least have some reason to do so. People are giving you the opportunity to express your views, yet you hide behind being cast out by those of differing views from your own. If you want to be a coward and not back up your convictions then so be it, but don't expect anyone to feel sympathy for you.

But in the end, your kids are going to want to know why it's wrong, and if you can't explain it to those who ask here(or elsewhere), where no one knows you, how are you going to be able to explain it to your kids? You seem to have some strong convictions on the topic, but do you really expect your kids to respect those reasons if you can't stand behind your own believes?

That being said, do you truly believe that you can shield your kids from the real world? Do you even think it's wise for you to do so? Doesn't a time come when you know they are going to be exposed, and you simply will have to answer these questions for them, or someone else will...and those people may or may not have the same opinion as you.

Ultimately, you want your kids to be able to grow up and make their own decisions. What part you play in that development is entirely up to you. You can either teach them hate or tolerance, but the one thing you can't do forever is keep them away from the real world.

The future generation will be fine. I've been hearing stuff along the lines of "think of the children" for almost 4 decades now...even before I knew what it meant. Yet, despite many different iterations of the same tired argument, no one ever really gives a reason why it's bad for the children to be exposed to these supposedly terrible things.

Respect your children, and their ability to make their own decisions when the time comes, and they will end up being respectful of others. There are times when a firm hand is necessary, but you can only do so much to prevent certain decisions in ones life, and one's sexual identity is not something you have a lot of influence on, even as a parent.

The world may seem like a sh*thole more now than ever, but it really isn't. We just have more exposure of all the sh*t that actually does happen. Kids grow up to be adults, and the cycle continues.

What's being enforced in schools? Teaching kids to show respect and dignity towards others despite our differences? Is that such a terrible thing to be exposed to? Is the school teaching your kids they should be gay, or are they simply saying that it's OK to be comfortable with yourself? Is that such a bad thing that they aren't shaming your kids into years of self-doubt and feelings of worthlessness?

I can also tell you, unless you plan to move to North Korea, or some other such totalitarian state, you're not going to get away from any of this just by moving to another country. It's running away. It's cowardly. Is that really the lesson that you want your kids to learn?

Learn to adapt to society, because society won't wait for you to catch up.

[Roccetarius]

Indeed, these sites are only speaking for a very, very small minority. Bioware's correctness has been infesting ever since the 7th generation, but it has become even worse over the years.

There are plenty of reasons to avoid EA's games, but this is just another thing on that list of reasons. Same goes for other games pushing this correctness to make it ''normal''.

[FunAndGun]

what is normal?

[GreetingsfromCanada]

These websites need to understand gamers don't care, at all.

[Christopher]

If gamers don't care, why do these articles get so many hits? Why do gamers keep asking about strong role models in gaming of a diverse array of sorts?

If gamers didn't care, then they wouldn't get hits and these articles wouldn't be written.

Kind of like how there aren't articles about My Little Pony games. Gamers actually don't care about My Little Pony games.

[Anthotis]

DA's devolutionary LGBTQRX pandering really doesn't matter, and serves no purpose other than to make others violently ill.

[Christopher]

Seeing an imaginary character that is gay makes people violently ill?

Why aren't we talking about this psychological illness rather than homosexuality? Can you image, you're watching TV, some gay character comes on, and someone suddenly gets violently ill?

[rainslacker]

I dunno...when I watch Modern Family I laugh pretty hard. The two gay characters are the best on the show, and have a very believable relationship. Sure they can be stereotypical at times, but I don't get ill watching them.

I do believe that bioware panders too much only in the fact I don't find them making their gay characters overly compelling, and them being gay just happens to be a reason to be controversial instead of just showing gay people in the light that they are just normal people, but I can't imagine it makes many people violently ill since I haven't seen a lot of people stating such a thing. Other games have had gay characters which are much better, and none of them have ever made anyone ill either.

[Godz Kastro]

I don't like any of this in my video games. I don't want to be forced to watch a lifestyle i don't agree with. Anything that has this type of content forced on me will never see the light of day on my console.

[ameliabaz]

Dude, you can kill people, assault them, steal from them, and do all sorts of horrible shit in Dragon Age games. Most game heroes aren't exactly shining examples of good or moral lifestyles.

A character being gay is pretty mild by comparison.

[SeanScythe]

Gotta represent that less than 2.3% of the world population... Stupid that this is pushed in everything and when it is its shoved in your face. The gay pride building in infamous:ss wasn't needed and was just there to push this agenda.

[sonic989]

i didt see it BUT wow man even SONY games i think i must research even deeper from now on .
i dont think tearaway unfolded would have anything of that sort because lol it doesnt fit .
but true what you said is true and for the fact i am not worried about my self because i know myself really really well but my future generations and my family i dont want them to be exposed to this crap even in their entertainment .

[Fishy Fingers]

Sonic, perhaps you shouldn't allow your 'future generations' to play mature rated games? Just a thought.

[sonic989]

thats why i dont buy bioware games specifically and for the matter any game that has this kind of mentality

[FunAndGun]

But you will use a computer and an operating system by companies that support SSM? Microsoft anything? Apple anything?

Do you ever drink a Starbucks?

Do you ever drink a Coke?

Ever use Amazon?

I could go on and on. I would like to see you survive without doing business with a company that supports same sex marriage and that "mentality".

Of course you will just continue moaning and groaning while giving money to companies that support equality and furthering civil rights. So thank you for that.

[morganfell]

To be fair, I do not like Microsoft but if they do not openly support SSM then they are literally flayed alive. It is how these movements work. A company cannot simply state they have no position on the matter, That is seen automatically as being against these movements and such companies are immediately demonized. Despicable behavior really.

As an individual, you cannot even say, "Look, I have nothing against you. I do not care. I am just not going to put your bumber sticker on my car." You just marked yourself.

It's always the same when you don't want to wear the ribbon.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[FunAndGun]

Hey morganfell, you heard of Chick-fil-a or Hobby Lobby.They openly are against SSM and they are thriving.

There are large companies that take no position on the matter as well, and they are doing just fine. Are you telling me every company is forced to agree with SSM?

Could it be that they have family and employees that are gay and want to be on the right side of history?

[morganfell]

Hey FunAndGun, ever hear of facts? I am very familiar with the Chick-fil-A case, are you? Chick Flilet never took the position of being against SSM. Research it. It was not a corporate decision or business stance.

I am very familiar with the Hobby Lobby case, are you? The Hobby Lobby case involved the right to exemption on a very narrow band. It also did not involve SSM. Nowhere is Hobby Lobby exempt or allowed to descriminate against SSM. Their case has nothing to do with SSM. In legal matters such differences as a religious exemption to providing contraception under a government mandate and the support of a Supreme Court ordered SSM are oceans apart. Oceans apart. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of SSM versus ruling in favor of religious objection as in the Hobby Lobby case.

In fact the most recent business to object to SSM is paying a very heavy price indeed.

Most companies do not want to be dragged before the Supreme Court in order to be able to do the right thing. And in this case the Supreme Court already has a finding that would go against any objection.

Understand I despise these groups and but I am simply stating a fact. These companies usually find it less expensive to simply support and give in to this type of abhorrent social bullying.

[FunAndGun]

@morganfell

yes, I understand those facts and cases. But those companies are still against SSM and they are still in business. That was my only point.

http://www.forbes.com/sites...

http://www.huffingtonpost.c...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/...

http://www.salon.com/2014/0...

[morganfell]

You are missing the point about Chick-fil-A. Never a coprorate position. It was the personal position of a CEO and he stated all people were welcome. This was not the decision of a company that said our position is we are against it. Every article you are posting actually reinforces what I have been saying. It was his position, not that of the company, and it did not carry over into company policy.

The third article you posted goes to show how people attempt to twist the news to change the facts. Why does it mention abortion and then go on to discuss Hobby Lobby. Hobby Lobby had nothing to do with abortion. It is called sensationalizing. Matters are better served by sticking to the facts.

Let me reiterate. Those companies do not have a corporate policy against SSM. Personal comments by board members does not equal company policy which was the original point.

And to show how far off the mark that CNN article lands, the Hobby Lobby ruling is old news. It isn't even surfacing now. So much for it being bigger than abortion. Yet abortion issues were just in the news in a major way last week. This is the left screaming again over something that was a mere bump in the road. CNN is hardly a dependable news source. Salon magazine is little better. On the other side you have Fox News, just as undependable in their own right.

Then again we were discussing SSM, not as I previously attempted to point out, laws relating to contraception. And contraception comes into play among couples that do not practice SSM so continually dragging Hobby Lobby into the matter is hardly applicable except to show how companies are continually attacked for lack of conforming to the social tantrums.

What really happens when you are openly against SSM?

http://www.oregon.gov/boli/...

$135,000 fine for a small bakery. Imagine what would be leveled against a multi-billion dollar corporation.

[MadMax]

When was the last time you saw a straight person in your face, forcing you to accept their lifestyle, and if not, you resort to name calling and attacks? Its only in the gay community, so you need to get over it!

Why are you guys so incredibly vocal and seem like the ones that are so angry and so full of hate? Nobody is allowed to have a difference of an opinion here?

I dont agree with it, and thats MY business, got it? You don't have to agree with my straight lifestyle, if that makes you so angry. I could care less! Move on already kid!

[morganfell]

@Max,

Too bad, but that is freedom. I neither agree nor disagree with you. Why? It is your right.

Ever hear the phrase, I disagree with what you are saying but I will defend to the death your right to say it. If you research you will find I have stated that before on this board.

Despite what FunandGun likely thinks, I actually am in favor of gay marriage. What I detest is the inability to choose. I ask for the same rights for all that most gay marriage proponents ask for themselves. Except unlike them I ask for it for everyone, not just for myself and not just for the people who think like me. What gay marriage proponents want for themselves, the right to choose, they also wish to deny others that do not get in line with their cause. On the other side the moral majority do the same. Both groups are heinous in that aspect. SJW jerks. I despise them.

There is a specific reason I posted that ribbon video. Kramer supported their cause, he just did not like it being dictated down to a finite detail what he should believe about that cause and what he was bound to do in order to support it. He should have also been free not to support it at all.

I detest less that 2% of the population acting like dictators. I detest being attacked if I do not wear the ribbon. SSM Movements. To quote Jack, "Ironic isn't it. In a way, you are your own worst enemy." Somewhere along the line, those seeking freedom for all have forgotten that freedom means freedom of yet also encompasses freedom from.

[rainslacker]

"When was the last time you saw a straight person in your face, forcing you to accept their lifestyle, and if not, you resort to name calling and attacks"

When was the last time a straight person had to be in someone's face to have their lifestyle accepted? I'm pretty sure if someone did that to a straight person, that straight person would be pretty upset and may resort to name calling and attacks.

"Why are you guys so incredibly vocal and seem like the ones that are so angry and so full of hate? Nobody is allowed to have a difference of an opinion here?"

Could ask the same of those who have the same opinion as you. You're allowed to have a different opinion, doesn't mean that others have to accept it, or not question what your opinion is...since you are also doing the same exact thing.

"I dont agree with it, and thats MY business, got it? You don't have to agree with my straight lifestyle, if that makes you so angry. I could care less!"

Yep, your business...got it.

Now here's what you need to get. These people you don't agree with also want to be left to their own business, which doesn't affect you until you assert your own beliefs into their business...as referenced by your first paragraph. They wanted to be treated the same. Whether you think it's the same or not is inconsequential to them except for the fact that people that believe the way you do continuously insert their beliefs into the matter at hand. They aren't looking for your approval, just to have the same rights as everyone else, and to be treated with dignity and respect.

They really couldn't care less what your opinion is on the topic, they just want you to leave your opinion out of their lives, because you are not part of their lives.

"Move on already kid!"

Don't have to worry about that. The world is going to move on with or without you. You can express your views all you want, but society and culture is forever changing. You can choose to live your life hating society or others, and letting all these people that have no effect on your life bring you down or make you angry, or you can just accept that they are part of our society, and live your life the best way you know how.

Unless you can come up with some concrete reason why these people have a negative impact on you or society other than, "it's not what I believe", then your opinion will continue to be meaningless to others, and it certainly will be meaningless to the matter you are discussing.

[Spotie]

@morganfell: I wholeheartedly disagree.

See, it's your choice to not agree with a certain lifestyle- though you seem to be FOR gay marriage, so this isn't quite addressed to you.

But a few things are being said around here. One of them is "Sure, be gay, just as long as you only do it in your own home where nobody straight has to see it."

If you can't see how that thought process, in a straight-dominated world, is still a form of discrimination, I don't know what to tell you. I liken it to the "separate but equal" policies of the civil rights movement. "You're the same as us whites, just so long as we don't have to be around you."

I'm sure you know how well that worked out, right?

What people need to understand is that there won't BE a push when us straight folks stop thinking how we do things is the only right way. I mean, hell, it's not like suddenly there'll be sex on the streets because two men can hold hands in public. And if you can't explain that to your kids, maybe there are more important issues you need to worry about.

Growing up in the Bible Belt, surrounded by Baptists and Jehovah's Witnesses my whole life, I've seen nothing but the hypocrisy of preaching love while abhorring certain groups. They believe scientifically disproven things like that it will corrupt children, and a host of other nonsensical stuff. Now, I'm not religious, yet somehow I've taken away the key teaching that they- and many in here, it seems- have forgotten:

Love.

Within reason, anyone should be able to express their love for anyone else without being made to feel less than human for it. And even before that, we should all love one another, no matter what our differences, or how irreconcilable those differences may be. The expression of the latter, or the lack thereof, is why people feel they need to "push" the gay agenda.

So, just like when my father was chased by the KKK, those who are oppressed will "push" the issue until those doing the oppressing- whether they realize it or not- stop pushing back. Now, as then, it seems it will take government action to move that process along.

[morganfell]

Spotie,

I am for gay marriage and gay rights. What I am not for is the opression that comes from either side, first the narrow minded ultra religious and now the gay rights movement, that says "Join us or die! If you are not for us then you are against us and we will do everything we can to ruin you." Ultimately many gay rights proponents have shown themselves to be no better than the people that have despised and opposed them. Even a business that is personally owned should be free to have their own opinions concerning gay marriage and a right to shoose customers. What happened to this bakery in Oregon is a heinous oppression of freedom.

It is your choice to agree or not agree with a certain lifestyle. It is your freedom. And if people truly understood freedom then they would be for the choices with which they also disagree. That is the truth about freedom.

Freedom itself is more important than that which freedom grants you the permission to do. Truly understanding freedom means you believe in the rights of others to make peaceable choices which you may not like and the support for those people's choices is more important than your likes and dislikes. You also should not be forced to like or support any belief or movement. Remember, you aren't being asked to support gay rights but rather freedom. It just so happens that freedom grants gay rights. On the other hand if you are not free to hate gay marriage in a nonviolent, noninterfering manner then freedom has also been lost. Freedom doesn't have a morality but it does have an all or nothing clause. Either everyone has it or no one has it. Freedom doesn't have a 3rd grade mentality of "You have to like me or else" "Or hate their kind or else."

Personally I believe in gay marriage for several reasons. This is a world of hate and war. And there are a lot of evil people whom you can never reach and who will never change and they just need to die for the good of humanity. So whenever two people love each other I could care less what the genetic lottery gave them because that is a win for humanity. It doesn't matter if you are gay, straight, hispanic, black, white, asian, etc. You are a human being. Being gay isn't a choice you make like you are ordering from a menu. It is who you are and it deserves to be respected. My wife is multiracial and none of those races is caucasian. I have seen enough discrimination to make me sick. At the same time, I am a heterosexual and I ask that be respected as well. Gay marriage was always protected by the constitution. It was merely blocked by numerous people who bent the constitution for their own personal wishes. This is why there is no need for a gay rights ammendment. Gay rights have always been protected under that timeless document, it just needed the courage to correctly interpret it.

[Doodleburger]

It's pretty sad when your game wins more awards for having gay sidekicks than for the actual gameplay itself. None of this shit matters if the gameplay isn't that good, and DAI was a single player fetch quest MMO. I really liked things better when the gays weren't all up in our faces about this junk.

[annoyedgamer]

The thing is, its not gays doing this, the perpetrators behind this rubbish are very much straight. Its what happens when businesses get entangled in liberal identity politics. EA has been leading the way with it for a while, but pressure from liberal hit squads like the website above is having an effect on other companies as well. Ubisoft being the latest to cave.

[annoyedgamer]

They already own us with this trash. First it was optional and the response was "if you don't like it don't choose it". Which worked until they forced it on us and when we say well how do we avoid it now? We get labeled as "bigots" and "homophobes" and other hot PC hit-terms.

In any case this so called "article" makes me all the more glad I did not buy DA:I or any other EA title the past few years.

I will take the beautiful ladies of The Wither over the "gender neutral" feminist friendly ugly ones from DA as well.

And for those wondering, yes, there are homosexual characters in the Witcher. Its just isn't used as a shield to cover a shallow, poorly made game.

[Aloren]

"They already own us with this trash. First it was optional and the response was "if you don't like it don't choose it". Which worked until they forced it on us and when we say well how do we avoid it now?"

There are 2 gay characters in inquisition. Dorian, and Sera and you can both reject them and prevent them from joining the inquisition. And even if they join, you don't have to talk to them. So, it still works..

[rainslacker]

I think you answered your own question. If you don't want to be exposed to it, then don't buy it. You didn't, hence, problem solved for you.

Whether it's a choice or not, is rather irrelevant when you don't even play the game.

In any case, I also don't agree with those countering your argument that you can choose not to be exposed to it, because that would warrant some prior knowledge that it's there, so it's not like you don't expect it. Like the first time I saw a gay scene in Game of Thrones...I didn't know it was going to be there, but there it was. I didn't get all up in arms about it...just found it as gratuitous as the rest of the sex in the show.

While it would be nice if these kinds of things weren't issues, the fact remains that it still does make some people uneasy, and in this, I do have to kind of agree with you that some prudence would be nice from these developers to not just throw in things that aren't acceptable just for the sake of being inclusive. I believe anything within a story should have a reason to be there, including a person's sexuality...whether straight or gay. This is particularly true of explicit or more provocative scenes. Unfortunately, in today's entertainment media, sex tends to be more inciteful than beautiful, and I truly believe that since straight sex has become much more commonplace, that the inclusion of gay relations and sex has become the new trend to be shocking and edgy.

Anyhow, to get back to your comment.

If people are going to label you as a bigot or homophobe just because you don't care to watch such things, then who cares. Not liking watching that stuff doesn't make you a bigot or homophobe. I mean, I don't like watching that stuff when it happens to come up in random porn searches with me thinking it's something else, but I still believe that everyone should have the same basic rights and respect as citizens of this world. It's just some things we don't like to see.

The bigots and the homophobes are those that go on to hate others due to their dislike of these things, or spread propaganda that these things are evil or immoral due to their beliefs or personal fears...hence the definition of the term bigot and homophobe.

[Imalwaysright]

Doesn't matter to me and I don't like the idea of games pushing agendas or political correcteness down my throat.

[ClayRules2012]

I personally don't have any issues with LGBT characters being in video games.

However, I do understand that not everyone wants to see LGBT characters in the games they're playing, for their own reasons.

I remember in ME, you could make your character you play as gay,bi, which is an option, you don't have to. I don't understand all the hate bioware received for that. If you don't want your character to be Gay/Bi, DON'T make them that way. Its all about choice.You choose who you want your character to be in a relationship with.

[sonic989]

you dont get the bigger picture arent you ?
first its optional then its forced then on streets then on your face then corrupt your children without allowing you to respond or you will labelled ( BY THE STUPID LAW ) .
if you dont interfere the moment you see it you will regret it later on .

[LightofDarkness]

Yeah, just like when they started forcing zombies into games. First it was a few, then it was loads of them. Before you knew it, you couldn't walk 5 feet down the road without seeing zombies eating people all over the streets. Then all the kids wanted to be zombies. Then the government showed up and forced everyone to be zombies, as part of their pro-zombie agenda.

Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

[ameliabaz]

"Corrupt your children"? Seriously? Kids don't give a shit about gay, straight bi, or whatever. They just wanna play in the playground.

A random character being gay in a game isn't going to corrupt future generations any more than letting women vote, giving worker's rights, and allowing interracial marriage did. The entire human race is not going to collapse just because a few gay people exist in video games.

[ClayRules2012]

I understand if people don't agree/don't support that lifestyle, they have a right to. But many people also say "I'm NOT homophobic" but then hateful/ignorant words towards Homosexuals come flying out've their mouths. Not all people who disagree with that lifestyle do this, but many certainly do. I know many parents who're Christians, that don't support that lifestyle & have raised their kids to do the same. Some kids have grown up agreeing or disagreeing with their parents, which is okay. Those parents may not support that lifestyle,, but they made it very clear to their kids to LOVE everyone. You have a friend who's gay, that's okay. Show your friend respect & love.

Parents have a right to speak out & protect their children, from things in this world that they feel aren't good for their young children, such as tv shows, music, movies, video games, but those parents need to watch & be aware of what kinda've things their young children are able to watch, play, listen to.

[Elda]

You do know people that are gay were infants then grew to kids became teenagers & now adults.Kids definitely should be taught that there are all different kinds of people knowing they may be different too & the better off they know the better off they'll be about tolerance & acceptance of people that may be gay including possibly themselves.

[Conzul]

@ameliabaz
"... Kids don't give a shit about gay, straight bi, or whatever. They just wanna play in the playground..."

Arguably, that's evidence that they've been corrupted.

[Paytaa]

I don't know I think as long as it doesn't hinder the narrative being told then I really don't have an issue. I'm all for people doing whatever they want with their lives so none of this bothers me. Mass Effect did the whole thing perfectly.

[LightofDarkness]

Agreed. If the complainers really didn't have a problem with homosexuality as they so often proclaim then none of this would bother them. It doesn't affect the narrative in any negative manner, in fact I thought this was a pretty interesting character arc.

There's already a number of "I don't care if they're gay/I'm not homophobic, just keep it away from me" comments. Oxymorons. You obviously do care if it bothers you so. And if it bothers you so much, you ARE homophobic. Call a spade a spade.

[SeanScythe]

You should rly look up the word phobia, it means fear. We don't want a mental disorder forced on us to like it or be labeled bigots because we know it's wrong. And don't try and say it's normal in nature because some animals have been shown to engage in gay behavior. I've seen dogs eat poop from other animals does that mean we should do it?

[Imalwaysright]

Who the hell are you to call people you don't know homophobes? I have an uncle that is gay and I don't have any problems with him or his partner and we get along just fine. Still, I don't like the idea of pushing agendas and political correctness in my games.

[annoyedgamer]

Dissagreement =/= Homophobia. That word is grossly misused. Just like the terms "racist" sexist" and misogynist". Interesting that group of words is isn't it?

[Tonykid]

I hate political correctness in my games it limits creativity or ruins it just to seem edgy.

[aLucidMind]

I love how people claim that this is shoved down their throats in DAI when it is only mentioned in passing twice and is in no way a focal point of his character. Not to mention that any dialogue options to romance him has a big heart next to it... meaning anyone complaining about it being "forced" on them either intentionally romanced him and then felt all insecure about their masculinity, or they're simply bigoted imbeciles.

But hey, we have to complain about something. You complain about homosexuality being portrayed as normal and I complain about the intellectually inept. Time to accept it and move on, kids.

[Tonykid]

Think about it this way, this subject is talked about more than anything else about the game. I'm a fan but when the game comes up whether in person or in some internet article or forum this subject comes up more so then others.

[aLucidMind]

That's not the fault of the game or the developers, that's entirely on the people talking about it.

[FreddyFazbear]

I also don't care about the LGBT propaganda. Just don't make it a "Big deal". its already around since dragon age origins. But these people who wants to make LGBT a big deal or mainstream it needs to stop. let it should be what it should be. No need to tell people "Hey im gay, and im very proud". I don't want to start a fight about morality but there's one thing I want. Leave the young ones out of this, the children. That's the only concern I have. the young generation growing up with a twisted view of the world today.

[LightofDarkness]

Oh get off your high-horse with your "please, think of the children" BS. Children don't care about it until you force them to, by telling them that it's wrong and against "god's will."

It's a minor character arc in a videogame that is meant for people over the age of 15. If you're letting your kids play violent games with mature themes that's YOUR fault.

[Godz Kastro]

God's will? I didn't see that in his comment.

I find it odd that you say kids won't care until you force them to. However little by little that is happening.

[ameliabaz]

Considering the amount of murder, violence, torture, war, and crime that's on mainstream TV nowadays, I doubt kids are going to have much of a problem with something as bland as gay relationships.

I'd rather my kids watch a gay character in a relationship than to accidentally catch a violence scene on the primetime news which causes them to be scared of things they are far too young to even be thinking about (like terrorists attacks or being gunned down in school).

[Elda]

You do know all adults that are gay were once kids.

[FreddyFazbear]

First, don't ever put words in my mouth. i did not say anything about God, nor did I preach about religion. Second I know its a minor character arc and i don't intend to let kids or other youngsters play mature games, because I play alone and wouldnt bother to tell them "hey you wanna play a game"??. And thirdly why are you guys so sensitive when someone says something about LGBT? I just posted this minutes ago and I got disagrees. So N4G is a LGBT defense force now?? and I haven't attacked or said something bad about someone. I just said leave the young ones out of this. What is wrong with that statement?? huh? are you part of the LGBT group?? you don't need religion and morality to know this things. I have gays friends. I respect them for what they are. But what I think of the matter, well that's for myself and my opinion.

[aLucidMind]

The reason they mentioned religion is because that's where most of the "arguments" against homosexuality come from. The hostility there is due to the fact that many who state those very subjective opinions do so as though they're objective fact and will spout off the second they even think homosexuality is mentioned.

You got disagrees because your statement implies that you disagree with homosexuality being fine. That lead to an assumption that you feel kids should be sheltered from it as opposed to the stance of a kid asking why two guys kissed and simply saying "Because love". It's a possible misinterpretation on what you meant, though the "not a big deal" statement should have tipped people off there.

Sometimes a little more exposition is necessary... especially online. The internet has more salt than the Earth ever will lol.

[Spotie]

I read this crap, and I'm saddened. All this "forced on us" stuff is utter nonsense. The most that homosexuality has ever been "forced" on me is when I take a class with someone who isn't straight.

Big freaking deal.

For all those claiming it doesn't matter to them... then shut up about it. The content is optional, the game is optional, the article is optional.

I may not agree with homosexuality, per se, but nor do I go out of my way to make ANYONE feel less than human, like some of you are.

Oh, and let's not make these stupid, fallacious arguments about the children. There's no correlation one way or another in that respect.

[aLucidMind]

[Double Post]

[Sketchy_Galore]

Sarcasm mode activate. What's more I'm tired of this racial diversity being pushed on us by Bioware. Oh, so I'm choosing the skin tone for my character and suddenly they're trying to make me make my character black. You can say it's a choice but what about the curly hair option they give you? You're gonna tell me that's not meant for a black character?? I've got no problem with black people and of course they should be able to live as they see fit and should have the same rights as the rest of us, just stop pushing it into my game! What's next, Bioware? A game in which you're forced to play as a gangsta rapper? Sarcasm mode deactivate.

Anybody disagreeing, please tell me how what you're saying is different.

[Tonykid]

I do miss the time when people only just played video games and complained which console is better. Now we talk about whether a game is displaying women correctly or if a game is being racist/sexist/progressive if a certain demograph is/not present.

[Sketchy_Galore]

Don't get me wrong. I DO think articles like this can be counterproductive because they point at the gay character like, 'He's GAY! Isn't that amazing and brave!?!' and that can lead to pandering, when a studio wants to pass off a shoddily made game they might stick in some socially progressive message to deflect criticism of the game itself.

I just don't think anybody can say Bioware has done this. Not having done his quest yet I didn't even know Dorian was gay (I know, my gaydar is pathetic). Even if his own quest has a lot to do with his sexuality, that is a huge part of life, especially in a world where people react to the merest suggestion of gayness like the fainting, pearl clutching old ladies here have. The way I see it, Bioware games are all about freedom of choice, creating the character you want to create. I'm a straight white male and feel best experiencing a story through that type of character. Still if anyone else wants to play as a black gay dwarf that really has no effect on me, I'm just glad they're able to do so.

I don't support changing the gender or race of iconic characters to balance out some social progressive checklist but what we're talking about here is a game that is designed to allow you to create whatever kind of character you want and explore a fantasy setting that deals with real world issues. Sad to say, if you're homophobic, racist, sexist, whatever, you're gonna be pissed off that there are freedoms open to you (and others) and things happening in the game you don't like, just like in the real world.

In fact, it would actually be far more pandering to avoid those sensitive issues for the sake of not making you uncomfortable than presenting them as they exist in real life.

[Tonykid]

True. I guess I'm just tired seeing this topic being brought up so many times. To me now I see a gay person/couple like I see straight person/couple it just gets annoying when people point out the gay couple/person. We are in era where bigots/sexists/racists account for a small portion of people and people who truly don't care about certain topics are being called bigots/sexists/racists.

[Elda]

You don't want to start that type of debate they'll say something that it's 2 different things such as someone can''t hide the fact that they're black but someone can hide that they're gay & other excuses,which imo gay rights & civil rights are definitely 2 different struggles but share the same pot of discrimination,bias,prejudice & bigotry...but ignorant folks don't see it.

[MadMax]

Well, i play games to escape all the politically correct nonsense thats been going on lately, and now they wanna bring it to the games?

So sick of the modern world!

[Klonoa-dreamtraveler]

Is it me or all the negative and hateful bigot comments are getting well saids and all the other smart comments speaking more civil right are getting hidden? Why is it ok for the negative comments to express they're opinions but the others can't?

[MadMax]

Maybe because the comments that you refer to as civil, are actually the hateful and insulting comments? I swear, thats all i keep hearing from the so called civil side, insults and attacks!

The word bigot has been so played out, its not even funny. Why is someone negative because they don't believe in another persons lifestyle? If anything, I'm seeing all the hate and negativity coming from all the pro gay people on here!

Also, why is it constantly being made like, wow look at me I'm gay, I'm in your face, i have to be accepted, how dare you not accept my gay lifestyle you racist homophobe, we wanna shock you, etc. Then you wonder why people trip out on them? Act with respect and maybe you'll get treated with respect! Get in peoples faces, shout them down with name calling and crybaby insults, no one will ever take you seriously.

You think theres nothing wrong with it, i think its sickening and mental! Who gives a crap, take it and move the hell on! You guys need to chill out already. I wanna play games, not talk about dudes making out!

[Klonoa-dreamtraveler]

First off it's a option in the game genius it's not forced on you that you're crying about like it's shoved in your face. then you try to say bigots being thrown around like its being used loosely when your calling people mental and sickening enforcing the whole bigot movement in the comment section.

None of this is stopping you from playing video games your seriously being a dramatic cry baby cause a simple option that's not even targeted at you or for you to begin with to even care about it.

Welcome to the real world and reality everyone is different and they're individuals if you haven't figured that out now or ever your life is gonna suck it's time for you to grow up and stop living in your fairy tale land where everyone has to be like you or else.