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RED ASH: Is it Too Soon for Keiji Inafune's Next Kickstarter?

Marcus Estrada writes: "In a move that surprised many, Inafune returned to Kickstarter on July 4 in order to raise funds for his next Mega Man-inspired project. Titled RED ASH - The Indelible Legend, it attempts to draw on gamer affection for the lovely Mega Man Legends series which was canceled before the 3rd version could launch. It’s also a mixed media event, with esteemed animation studio STUDIO4℃ at the helm via their own Kickstarter. Now, people absolutely are gaga about Mega Man Legends, even today, but something interesting happened with the announcement of this campaign."

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Summons75884d ago

Looks awesome but I'd say just a tad bit early. They should of at least waited until M#9 was released then dropped this but it's whatever. The fact that this isn't doing well at all after fanboys raged and raged for years about MMLegends being canceled may just go to show exactly why Capcom did what they did but another reason may just be pure confusion because they have one kickstarter for the game and another for the show all while M#9 isn't even out yet. Hope it works out but I want to see how M#9 is first before anything else.

_-EDMIX-_884d ago (Edited 884d ago )

Many folks need to actually get the game industry before questioning such things.

Many teams at any given time have many projects in being worked on. The Last Of Us was being worked on likely during Uncharted 2's development as the story, concept etc could be started near the final parts of UC2's development as those staff where not needed for that part.

Insomniac has always for some time had at least 3 projects they where working on, they where working on Ratchet for PS4 WHILE working on Sunset Overdrive while working on their new OR PC title...

Its again not unusual for a team to be working on several projects all at once, but MS nor Sony are publishing his titles (but ReCore) so he still needs to find some early funding. He can't afford to work in silence as he needs the funding for such a thing.

Big time publishers can work in silence on many projects at once, but indies sorta can't. They still need to fund their titles by fans so they have to speak up about current work.

If Sony didn't own the Last Of Us ip nor Naughty Dog, for all we know, they would have kickstarted TLOU 2 a long time ago.

Mighty No.9 is still being worked on, this title starting doesn't hurt M9 as its coming out in September of this year...

The staff even starting this game have likely not even been working on M9 currently as its concept is done, its story is done, many elements are done by those pre-production staff.

M9 Sep 2015

ReCore spring 2016

Red Ash could be as soon as fall 2017.

Mind you, ReCore is not all of his team either. MS has staff helping him on that so its likely not all of his resources.

I mean...if someone is going to do a story on this, at least have some examples of a developer that had lots of titles in development that never released.

Having many projects being worked on at once isn't really new and many of todays teams are working on many projects that we don't even know about.

Baka-akaB884d ago (Edited 884d ago )

Sure , but come on ... kickstarting multiple projects at once doesnt feel very ethical and ought to be avoided ... And i mean that for other personalities as well .

Once you ask people to show that kind of support and goodwill , regardless of them getting copies and goodies , and even if the real funds are from investor and the crowdfunding was to gauge interest , the least you could do , is look like you're 100% focused on that project .

A non traditional way of creating games beckons a non traditional way of delivering them imo

_-EDMIX-_884d ago (Edited 884d ago )

@Baka-"kickstarting multiple projects at once doesnt feel very ethical and ought to be avoided"

How many does he have out currently? Mighty 9 isn't currently on Kickstarter and is currently being published under Deep Silver.

"the least you could do , is look like you're 100% focused on that project"

http://www.ign.com/articles...

Again since many seem as if they actually didn't fully read my post, the same folks who are doing the concept art, engine, story etc would not even currently be working on Mighty No9 right now as those aspects of the game are already done.

The same people working on Mighty 9 right now, will still be working on the game until release, they would not be doing Red Ash as the game is only in concept form....so they would do what exactly? Program a game on zero engine? Do voice acting for a game with no script? Do gamers not get how games are made?

They are made in phases, Mighty No9 is coming out in September of this year, the starting phase of Red Ash, ie concept, story, art, engine etc would not actually hurt the final phase of Mighty No9 as those aspects are already complete and have been for some time, the staff that did that phase are again not currently working on Mighty No 9.

That is like saying a concept artist is working on a game up until the last month of its release, yet disregard its needs to get modeled, animated etc by many staff and tested before its even ok'ed.

Example again, Insomniac.

During 2013, they where working on Ratchet Remake, Fuse, Ratchet into the Nexus and SunSet Overdrive.

During 2014 they where working on a series of IOS games, while making Sunset, while working on Ratchet still, while likely working on Edge Of Nowhere as I doubt what we saw at E3 was 6 months old.

Mighty No 9 is almost done, like 2 months and some days done. ReCore is being done not only by his team but by Armature and to my understanding MS is lending help with staff too, mind you, its been in development for WELL over a year.....yet Mighty No 9 still got a publisher and is still coming this year...how on earth do you explain that?

Doesn't that indeed mean his team can very much do many projects if ReCore was being done along with Mighty No9? By the time Red Ash even comes near full development, Mighty No 9 will already be done...

Thus....they would just be working on 2 games, 1 already going to be a year and a half into development.

Sooooo

http://www.gamercenteronlin...

and fans don't own his project, they are agreeing to fund part of it with hopes of snagging a publisher to help fund the rest. I backed Mighty No 9, will back Red Ash and would have backed ReCore if they even went that route a year and a half ago lol

Consider you might have stated the same thing if ReCore was kickstarted....yet a year later into ReCore's development we are still getting Mighty No 9, no kidding huh?

Baka-akaB884d ago (Edited 884d ago )

May i remind you that i insisted on how it looks . Timing the announcement of RED ASH in a month or two with 9 probably going gold in august , would be better in that aspect .

And i'm not even saying that backers own his project . Still wont get away with a pervasive sense of entitlement of sort , considering the principles usually behind crowdfunding

_-EDMIX-_884d ago

@Baka- won't disagree with you on that. Though I feel the entitlement is unwarranted as you are agreeing to fund with getting a game in return, I can't disregard that many feel this way and may very well impact the funding.

Because I don't get why it happens and I don't agree with it happening, doesn't mean it doesn't happen and can be avoided.

I just think its silly that this strange perception of "finished" and "started" is causing anyone to freak out and question the ethics of it when game development isn't merely 1 phase, its many, many phases with many different people.

I do get that many feel that way though. I for one don't and get why its happening in this fashion, if I was in his position, oddly and ironically enough.....after seeing what you stated, I would have just stated this announcement after Mighty No 9 launched.

Consider many didn't have a huge backlash with ReCon being made, mainly because they didn't know it was even being worked on. lol, so I guess I would just never tell folks about certain games as to not mess up their "perception" of what they think is being developed and when.

Never mind that they don't make games, never mind that its not interfering with development, if they "think so" its enough to hurt business, thus not saying anything about it is the best course of action.

Can't disagree with you on that one Baka.

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rainslacker884d ago

M#9 is coming in September. It's likely in final certification before going gold at the moment. It's highly unlikely any changes will be coming to it, unless they're scrambling to finish day one updates...which I believe the delay was to prevent, so it doesn't seem all that unreasonable to start a new project instead of having all your people twiddling their thumbs without much to do. Since the KS won't end until soon before M#9 launches, it does seem like they are just setting it up to be ready to go when the time comes.

In any case, they do have multiple teams over at that dev, so who knows. I don't really trust the gaming press right now when it comes to criticism of KS projects, because it seems to me, that the first KS from this dev is going to be delivering very soon, so they've proven themselves worthy of trust. I also hear that M#9 is pretty good.

_-EDMIX-_884d ago (Edited 884d ago )

100% agreed! I'm not really sure why folks are questioning the "starting" of a game when most games are started the same way, concept, concept art, writing etc

How the hell is Red Ash "too soon" when Mighty No 9 is all but finished? What on earth could be happening with Red Ash that would hurt Mighty No 9?

Again.....they are still drawling characters, enemies, story etc lol, even as Mighty 9 releases, they would still not even have an engine up and running of that game, I'm sorry but all this shows is that N4G has a whole lot of ill-informed gamers about how the game industry works in terms of development.

I mean...do some of those gamers think that the writer, concept artist etc are just working on the game until the final day of release? LMFAO! If thats the case, such gamers don't need to be writing articles like this as they don't know what they are talking about.

The game likely won't even have an engine for the next few months, again....who the hell would that hurt a already finiished game? LMFAO!

Yet....lots of disagrees, yet very few responses to explain why in 2 months it would hurt a done game, why they can't do Red Ash now, yet ReCore being worked on for the last 14 months LOL!

I'm sorry but the fact that he's already done many projects all at once, very much contradicts this whole damn article's main point.

Whats "too soon"? Is ReCore "too soon"? Would they not state this if ReCore was never stated to have been worked on for 14 months?

Well...your answer to "too soon" is a huge NO! As ReCore's existence is further legitimate proof that they very much can work on many projects...they where working on ReCore while working on Mighty No 9......yet again...its coming THIS YEAR in 2 damn months.

Soooo can they fully work on Red Ash in concept form? Yes....as they started full development on another game while making Mighty No 9, thus that was much harder then their next process....

Mighty No 9 full release in 2 months

Red Ash full development next year,

ReCore done in spring next year....I've seen MORE titles being done by other teams...

The more you know...

Mind you, the writer doesn't even cover that Legends was never as popular as the numbered Mega Man titles.

We only got 2 Legend games, 3 if you count Tron Bonne. The kickstarter being slow might be due to the lower popularity of legends compared to Mega Man and the X series.

akiraburn884d ago

@rainslacker I would agree, you are definitely accurate in your assertions there. I believe though that the real problems with the lessened and slower funding for this specific project stem from several other areas. Specifically, the lack of a plan for console releases (and other OS's) from the beginning of the campaign, starting the campaign around and during several other large Kickstarter projects, and launching two simultaneous projects (one for the anime and one for the game).

Further thoughts on the those points... I think that the lack of any planning for console release and other PC platforms besides Steam has really hurt the campaign. Now they're scrambling to make things work and have told the community that if they can hit $1 million that they will release the game on a single console, which will be voted on. However, only the backer community will be eligible to vote for which console gets the release. Obvious problems with that aside, this all really seems like a tremendous oversight in their potential funding.

I'd have to wonder also, since Igarashi is managing a physical PS4/PC/XBO release of Bloodstained (and was planning on it with his initial goal of $500K), why don't think they would have been able to with an $800K goal? I realize that it's different games, different engines, but it still seems strange, given that Mighty No.9 also ended up getting released on every platform (implying that the team now has experience with that).

Adding onto that issue is the overflow of really solid projects that have popped up on Kickstarter recently. Between Bloodstained having just finished up a few weeks ago, Yooka-Laylee about a week after that, Shenmue 3 still going on, Bard's Tale IV which just finished a couple days ago, and other small to mid-tier projects in between (such as Regalia), it's been a busy time for gaming with Kickstarter. With all those people that have been dishing out funding for these, there may be some exhaustion in that market at the moment. Not to mention that the media attention isn't as strong as when it's the only "big" project happening.

And on my last note, I think that launching the two projects at the same time was asking for problems. Even with the best intentions, having both the anime and the game project running simultaneously doesn't give either one the full attention from the media and the community, and those interested in both projects might end up splitting their donation amount to fund both, as opposed to funding them at separate times for more.

As a tremendous fan of Mega Man Legends 1 and 2 (I still own the original discs even), I really want to see the game succeed. But I don't think that any part of his plan for this Kickstarter was organized or handled as well as Mighty No.9 was. Had he launched this in a month or so, really planned out and shared at least some sort of console and other OS release ideas/plans, and built a bit of a stronger rapport with his newly established community, I think he'd be sitting well over a million right now. But there are many issues, even aside from what I've mentioned here, that would make an older fan of the MML games at least cautious of backing. That's my opinion though.

rainslacker884d ago (Edited 884d ago )

Understandable. I wasn't trying to assert any kind of reasoning on the slow campaign itself, just whether it was too soon to be starting one.

I don't personally think it's too soon, however, you do have a point that they are doing it during a fairly competitive time in the KS space.

I'm with you on wanting the game to succeed, however, at the same time, I have a principal of not really donating to KS projects. I trust the dev here to deliver, but I'd prefer to not wait two years or so for something that I'm paying for now.

Shenmue was one extreme exception for me, because I know that Suzuki has been trying to get it made for years now, and he would often give fans updates on the progress, even when it was not positive, so we've been able to watch him for 14 years now trying to complete his vision for Shenmue. I'm not even a huge Shenmue fan, but Suzuki has had influence on my life and my love of gaming, and I just can't help but want to see him finish the series.

I respect him and Inafune a great deal, but I don't feel that Inafune is in the same boat as Suzuki in this regard. inafune went indie to be free of the yoke of Capcom, like Suzuki did with Sega. However, he's making new visions based off his old work, as opposed to trying to complete a vision that was started with the fans a long time ago which got mired down in the corporate bureaucracy of sales data.

I'm all for spiritual successors, but for the most part, these are not no name talents that can't get funding for grand visions. These are some of the cream of the crop. Their attachment to remaking a vision is not what I'd consider visionary. I will play them when they release, if they release in a place that I want to play, in a format I want to play, but I am not going to put money up front for it years in advance. if Suzuki came at us and said he wanted to make a spiritual successor to Shenmue, then I'd feel the same way about him as well.

That being said, I am getting M#9, the limited edition one with the figurine, and I look forward to playing it.

Anyhow, sorry I kind of went off point from your comment. Sometimes the thoughts just run random, and then pick up steam.

akiraburn883d ago

Oh for sure, and no worries at all. I understood what you originally meant, and I definitely agree with it. I was just lending a bit of side thought on the specifics regarding the lower sales right now for the campaign.

As for myself, I actually have donated to 15 or 16 projects so far, and for all of the projects that have released or have a beta that I was able to try, they've turned out really well. The main thing is, I always do my homework on the companies and people handling a project. It saves a lot of headache later on. I understand your perspective on the long wait times before release, and although that is often the case, I think it's also important to appreciate the situation that the developers are in. Not necessarily the more well known guys like Inafune, but smaller devs like the folks who did Regalia and Children of Morta. Those awesome concepts may not have happened at all without the community's support.

And one of the other reasons that I donate to these projects is because I too will soon be in the situation of seeking help to get a game developed through Kickstarter. I've been working on my own cartoon series and prepping it for release later this year, and after we've got the first season out of the door I already have the design document drafted and in place to make a game (action RPG) based off of it. The odds are that unless we can strike up a conversation with a smaller publisher like Devolver, we'll be independent for the entire thing.

So unless a publisher deal works out, having a tool like Kickstarter could mean the difference between us being able to focus all of our efforts on the game, getting better talent to work on modeling, animation and coding, getting the game finished sooner, and being able to afford the small extras (both software and hardware) which will make the work turn out better, as opposed to still working from our bedrooms and splitting all of our time between everything else needed to just survive day to day. That's my perspective on it anyway.

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ZeekQuattro884d ago (Edited 884d ago )

Mighty No. 9 isn't even out yet and he wants money for an Mighty No. 9 Anime series, Red Ash movie and wants people to fund the Red Ash demo so he can pitch the series to a publisher. I feel like I am starting to see why Capcom wanted Keiji Inafune gone at this point.

Baka-akaB884d ago

By all accounts , and judging what he's said before and after leaving , and what he's done since , he's the one that wanted out of Capcom

Scissorman82884d ago

We have to also consider this is coming off the heals of some very big Kickstarter campaigns: Bloodstained just raked in 5 million and Shenmue 3 which is also closing in on 5 million. I'm a HUGE Legends fan but how much money am I supposed to shell out!? :P

Debaitable884d ago

I feel like this should be just one big game instead of being just episodic

_-EDMIX-_884d ago

Me too, but consider they don't really have the money for that. They are a small team and still need to work things out before they can make a huge Legends type open world game.

I'm still very excited for it though! I think they can do a great job! Original Legends director is on board too!

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