The new gameplay video of Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain, did not fail to impress, but lately fans are wary of (real or perceived) last minute downgrades. According to Producer Ken-ichiro Imaizumi, you can rest easy.
every single game there as to be someone that complains about downgrade. its already getting ridiculous. why not enjoy the bloody game as it is, as long gameplay is tight, frame rate stable and story interesting, i dont see why a change probably in lightning or conditions of time, should affect the enjoyment of the game
You know what's else ridiculous? Seeing every game do it!!!!Yea man let's just let developers show us touched up demo's for publicity and marketing and not show them what the actual game is!The graphics are not a problem, it's the fact that they are knowingly showing footage that looks better than the final product in the game. Oh and the whole "Games are just complicated now adays and developers aren't meaning to show fake footage,it's pre alpha dude!" That is by far the stupidest thing iv'e heard,gta 5 didn't do it when they showed footage of their game and I can tell you right now it's more complex than any other game made! Why cant a game of half it's complexity deliver what it's showing?!I'm sorry if you think its ridiculous if we complain about false marketing and being shown fake footage! Gamers like this are the fuel to Ubisoft downgrades! *On a side note I don't think metal gear solid V has been downgraded
I'm with Fries 1223 on this one, is not the graphics but the false advertising, even so I'm not so dogmatic in this point of view, I recognise that sometimes is difficult to maintain a target and deliver performance at the same time but this shouldn't be as frequent as it has become.
Batman on PS4 looked exactly like its released videos. Not every single game has been downgraded, it's a huge exaggeration. COD last year wasn't downgraded, MKX wasn't, The Order 1886 wasn't, Bloodborne wasn't and so on. So really, the way I see it, a minority of games (while high profile) have been downgraded but still looking gorgeous (Witcher). @stefan771 You need to really compare a game like Arkham Knight to Arkham City and say that again. Or Witcher 3 to Witcher 2. Or Bloodborne to Demon/Dark Souls. People tend to forget how last gen looked so fast. Same thing happened when last gen launched, same arguments.
Every game isn't doing it. People are forgetting that the three biggest examples so far - Watch Dogs, Witcher 3 and The Division were all showcased as graphical powerhouses BEFORE the consoles came out. As it turns out, the consoles weren't as powerful as any of them predicted (not trying to bash consoles, this is just fact). Ofcourse they had to gimp features to make it run. What else can they do ? They simply didn't have it running on target hardware when they showed it. If anything they showed stuff too early, that's it. The only place where the word 'downgrade' makes sense is PC. That's the only place you can leave users the options to scale things up. That's why Ubisoft got flak - for disabling working graphics options on PC, presumably to keep that version at par with other versions. That's really sad. CDPR got flak for their horrible communication with PC gamers. They had the most blindingly obvious grahpics downgrade, but instead of just telling the truth or not saying anything at all, it was "No downgrade" and "We haven't showed the highest settings yet". Sad way to trick and lie to people. The Witcher 3 had the biggest grahpics downgrade out of all these games. People saying The Division is downgraded. You don't actually know that. The footage they showed was on the PS4. Ofcourse it isn't going to look as good as some monster PC footage from E3 2013. That's not downgrade, it's optimization for a specific hardware spec to achieve 30 fps. it's common sense. If the PC version has also been gimped and those OPTIONS are removed, then there's a downgrade. It probably has been downgraded imo... There is no 'downgrade' as far as consoles go. They are fixed hardware spec machines. You try to get a stable 30 above all else, and that's a requirement for a good experience. If you have to gimp grahpics to get there, you gimp grahpics. 30 fps comes first, and games have proven that time and time again. A fluid experience is so much better than a stuttering experience with better graphics. IMO, this simply won't be happening as much in future games, simply because now they have the target hardware. We've already seen that at E3. Ubisoft showed The Division and For Honour running on PS4, not a monster PC. I'll still have to see whether the PC version of Ghost Recon Wildlands is downgraded when it comes out, because the trailer they showed was probably running on some insane PC. It had ridiculous draw distance, texture detail, tesselation, Screen Space Reflections , brilliant lighting, AO and every post process you can think of. Those environments... it looked like it had all possible graphics options turned up to 11
If it's such a problem for you, stop buying the games. Problem solved. For those of us with common sense to know that it's a development issue, not a marketing issue, we'll just enjoy the wonderful games developers work hard to bring us month after month. Edit: For people claiming this stuff is "false advertising" because of a demo... Every single demo and/or alpha gameplay footage/beta you see of a game has a very evident THIS IS PRE-RELEASE GAMEPLAY AND IS NOT INDICATIVE OF THE FINAL PRODUCT seal on it. It is entirely YOUR fault for repeatedly having such high expectations that you get upset over downgrades. This is not false advertisement. It is gamer entitlement.
I'm laughing as I read these "gen 8 is underpowered' comments. Wait until devs actually get some experience with these consoles under their belt. I'm sure in 2006 nobody saw games like UC3/RDR/GTAV/Alan Wake coming. When did gamers drift from actually appreciating games to criticizing them so harshly? Isn't that... you know, the critics jobs?
True! True! everything except i think MGSV is already downgraded sadly.
Well [email protected], at last someone on N4G with the intelligence (which is really just common sense) to understand where the problem is & its root cause. There is absolutely no excuse for false advertising. It is frowned upon in every other industry except gaming, where it unfortunately thrives. It's taken so long for us "overprivaliged whiners" to be heard for just pointing out what should be obvious to all. Which again unfortunately indicates the intelligence levels of their customer base as they are allowing it to thrive. This downgrade shit should have been shutdown years ago. Instead of the stupidity of these arguments about just excepting it because we should be enjoying the gameplay not the graphics. It's like saying if you went to see the new Terminator film & after watching the huge spectacle of the trailer. Then going to the cinema & all the SFX have been cut. Then someone turning to you & saying you can't complain because you should be enjoying the acting not the FX. There's no excuse whatsoever for the lack of mentality to not understand the problem. Again, the apologetics are still claiming what other way could they have done it. They didn't have target hardware. All these developers claimed publicaly that their footage was running off real code running off real advertised hardware. The stupidity of ignoring facts is even worse & it is now the vast majority of games & no longer the minority due to these people.
Both have a point, Fries and the dark one. They shouldn't show console footage that they know they can't achieve. But they shouldn't keep all the graphics if it compromises the framerate. Or they can just show on PC /discussion
Remember an early showing with the fox and xof badges being thrown. They were as circular as a breeze block. Circles and round objects don't exist in the universe of MGS. The game looks the same today as then, maybe better. As you say no false tessellation and super computer fakery and it looked great.
obviously you seem to care what others think so take your own advice and stop worrying about what others think. stuff like lighting and graphics help makes the world more immersive. your opinion isn't anymore valid than anyone elses.
u know going back a few years people understood that the video shown is the aim. Optimization is what i call it with most games and its purely that. now this gen ubisoft have overstepped the mark with watchdogs as i would class that as a downgrade and imo they should of been in trouble for the video they showed to what they released. now i think the word is just used on Every game to make hits. on another note i do think there should be laws in place and every gaming video shown has to be watermarked with platform and version.
People completely missunderstood what the Watch Dogs downgrade scandal was about. It was not about the game being unable to hit its pre-release quality graphics. It was about the graphics actually being turned off, and you could enable them through mods and even get better performance. Games not hitting target renders is nothing new. Look up the first Metal Gear Solid 1 trailer, it looked MUCH better than the final product. This has happened for years and years, and it is a natural part of a development cycle. It is hard to predict what level of fidelity will actually run smoothly when the game comes close to launch. There is nothing wrong with tuning this to match the hardware they are releasing it on. Very different from what Watch Dogs did.
Watch dogs was odd as late as a week before they delayed and a month before original release date they were letting journalists play the ps4 and pc versions and releasing videos of the ps4 version and it looked great. Then it released 6 months later... And didn't look anywhere near as good and no explanation was given hell they tried to.are out nothing had happened however the settings were still there on Pc and worked fine. The game also felt like parts of the story might have been rearranged/cut late on as what we got vs what had been shown in previous trailers doesn't quite line up. Why this happened is beyond me but I'd guess at concern last gen versions wouldn't sell well if there was such a massive difference. Witcher 3 wasn't the same issue as they openly said they'd changed the rendering system. The division hasn't released and likely has had a slight downgrade from original early engine footage however as games required 2+ years of Dev since then... Well I'm not surprised at all.
Gaming community can be shown 120 minutes of gameplay be told it is less than a percent of gameplay and different ways to play the game. Shown a rocket punch, a dog being useful in a video game slitting someones throat, a female sniper that is mute and takes out enemies in sync with you and still find a way to complain. "BUT TEH GRAPHICS". To that I say but the gameplay. If you want to play graphics then life is right in front of you and if you got the right optometrist the graphics and frame rate are life changing. Talking ill of Kojima in 2015 come on now. This is MGSV the Phantom Pain.
Letting downgrades go is more annoying than complaining about them. Console owners not buying the game and Steam refunds are the only way we can send a message to stakeholders that enough is enough. Publishers are forced to make more and more money for stakeholders, which is why Ubisoft et al keep churning out yearly games.
Dynasty if people like you become the majority then I will stop playing video games. You are complaining about graphics of MGSV
Sitting at nearly 90% complete when shown at E3,which stole the show,it looked stunning so can't really see there being that much of a downgrade from now till Sep.Probably going to start the stage of polishing the game to max rather soon I would imagine.
Yet, I'm betting a beer that there's still gonna be plenty people that are gonna perceive a downgrade in some way. The paranoia is real.
After that E3 demo I cannot wait for the release.A weeks holiday booked for this masterpiece.Your always gonna get someone that's gonna shout downgrade but after watching the demo at E3 I find it hard to believe that a downgrade will happen and if it does it will be minimal.Credit where its due,graphically it looks super stunning but what surprized me is that after E3 there were hardly any articles about MGSV.Everyones raving about Uncharted 4 graphics and gameplay,which do look ace but this stole the show graphically and gameplay wise.The amount of customization and gameplay options is endless.Sept 1 can't come soon enough bud.Keep that beer for ureself.
I agree. Wouldn't put it past people to see what they want to see... even if behind all that is a fantastic game they'll just focus of the negative perception they've created for themselves. I think MGS5 looks amazing and at this stage it's probably nearly finished development so I doubt we'll see any type of downgrades.
Make it a Vodka or Whiskey and you've got yourself a bet....except I agree with you, especially after the Witcher 3...
Personally, if the final game looks as good and hopefully better than Ground Zeroes I'll be a happy customer.
The hype is real for this one. I just wanna play this game!
I think what you guys are forgetting is that the Metal Gear Solid series has ALWAYS raised the bar when it comes to gameplay and graphics...there is no way they will downgrade Phantom Pain maybe for the consoles but the PC is going to be burning up those Video Cards...on consoles yah I can see it happening....
Well, Ubisoft who has started in the first place. Well, I know it getting ridiculous, yes. But Ubisoft lied about the graphic of Watch Dog and got backslash. Even worse, people got scared of every companies because Ubisoft fault. They shouldn't have done in the first place.
In the end, all complaints about graphics downgrade will not affect much because of the great gameplay. In Watch Dog's case, the gameplay and the game itself is totally horrible, so people have a means continue to attacking Ubisoft.
Well, I understand. But remember this, who cause this disater and make people complain and hate.
Ubisoft started it ? people have been lying about graphics and downgrading games for decades. And Watchdogs is far from being the worst offender, at least it still looked great after the downgrade. The most amazing thing about the watchdogs hysteria is that it looks like people suddenly discovered their home console wasn't the monster they thought it would be...and those claiming people were upset because options were deactivated on PC are full of shit. A huge majority of watchdogs players were on consoles and still whined about the "downgrade". Now go back in past, check Rise of the Robots and compare it to what it was supposed to be. Check the back of your SF2 box on C64 and admire arcade like graphics, and check the back of your Just Cause box on PS2 and enjoy beautiful 360 graphics... "Downgrades" are almost as old as video games...
Well...I'll admit, I'm getting this on PS3, so I'm already downgraded :|
It looks just as good as PS4. Kojima productions did great for all platforms.
At least the Fox Engine is very scalable. Ground Zeros looked great on PS3
My friend is an artist on the MGSV team. He told me about this a few months back. I don't really mind because I prioritize gameplay, but I foresee some complaints at launch.
Graphics downgrades are real. This one is not. Seriously, watch the e3 demo from last year and compare it to the one that just released. The draw distance, aliasing on distant shadows, and special effects are unquestionably better without any remotely noticeable drop in texture quality. Seriously, go watch them. Its not a matter of opinion.
Kojima Productions aren't those kind of people!!
I still dont know if I want this... Thanks to the whole Konami debacle I mean...
Support Kojima. Make Konami regret their decision.
I see what you're saying.. But how, just buy this game and never support them again afterwards?
The MGS franchise has always been a techinal marvel. Every game released have pushed the sytems they were on. Kojima and his team always seem to utilise or pull something more... MGS (PS1), MGS 2/3 (PS2)... etc. These all showcased great innovations in animation, environments, motion capture... How can MGS 5 run at 1080p 60fps and look so good, with such a large world, gameplay choices... It's remarkable!. There will be no downgrade. Kojima is a perfectionist and this is why he's such a master at this art and these games. I wish him the best. This will indeed be the last MGS game I buy. For Kojima! Not Konami!
Ken-ichiro Imaizumi @Ken1555 "Our team has limited resource, so we make console then team shift to PC. We are trying our best" Unlike some other games on PC, MGS Ground Zeroes on PC was really really good. It ran great and looked fantastic, with quite a few extra graphics options for PC !
is this a kojima game?
While I wish games were as crispy and amazing as devs show them to be, you really gotta take a step back and think about the games you've been playing over the past decade and where games are today. Even downgraded, as some would say, The Witcher 3 looks phenomenal. I don't understand the argument. Seriously. Anyone ever played Syphon Filter on the PS1??? Then look at Rainbow Six Vegas 2, now look at GTA V and The Witcher 3 or even Batman Arkham Knight. Sure, yeah it's false advertisement. But really it's your own fault if you spend $60 on a game before checking out the reviews and gameplay footage post release. Don't be mad at the devs for trying to push the hardware as far as it will go, be mad at yourselves for not doing the research. I've never bought a game I wasn't happy with. And if I did, I simply sold it to someone else, problem solved. This is what's wrong with this world. Everyone thinks everything has to be perfect and if it isn't everyone goes insane. I hate to tell it to ya, but life isn't perfect, neither are video games.
This week in "Multiple Platform Development is Hard..." I've hated this hypothetical magazine since Dark Souls II. :P
I avoid trailers and spoilers for most games. I also do not over analyze everything. Too much else to do in my life. So when a game comes out I want I just enjoy it after verifying a plethora of reviews and word of mouth.
Sometimes games get downgraded for obvious reasons, that doest take away from the enjoyment to be had with said game! Gameon!
If there was a game i wish didt get down graded from the reveal trailer its got to be darksiders2, looking at that stone giant from afar as death fights his way towards it was truely epic! I thought nextgen's graphics were going to look like that trailer and better. Well time will tell if xboxone will indeed get to that graphic fidelity!
Killzone 2, the we catalyst for the phenominon known as downgrading.
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