Nintendo Insider writes: When Microsoft were finalising their plans surrounding Xbox 360’s launch, they had been so focused on defeating Sony’s PlayStation 3 that they had mistakenly “completely discounted Nintendo.”
And then Wii won the 7th generation. Honestly though if it wasn't for the RROD MS wouldve won gen 7. I know i was ready to get a 360 untill i heard about RROD.
By many count the only reason the 360 "sold" as well as it did was RROD. People buying new consoles instead of getting old/broken ones repaired.
Care to qualify that statement? Because to me it seems like BS. MS extended the warranty for 3 years and it was widely known that you could return it.
If a large portion of the Xbox 360's sales had been replacements, then the software would not have sold as well as it did. Most multiplatform games sold better on the 360 than the PS3. In fact, the 360 has one of the highest software attach rates of any console.
Well that warranty came in a good year and a half after it launched. I don't know why everyone acts like they had it there from the start. That means anyone with a launch console that died after a year probably bought a new one. My first one was dead out of the box after I went to the midnight launch. I took it back immediately and swapped it no fuss. That one died 6 months later. Because I paid extra for the store extended warranty they swapped it over and I didn't have to deal with Microsoft. When that one died my warranty was over and the 3 years didn't exist yet, so I had to buy another one. So while I had 4 360s I only paid for 2 but I feel I got lucky as I swapped 2 of them straight out for new ones. Also as far as the store is concerned that would count as 4 sales which was Godmars original point that RRoD inflated sales numbers. Food for thought at least.
@Bathyj No that's not correct. Firstly, a year's warranty already existed so that's a whole year the console was covered. Secondly, any paid for repairs were also covered retrospectively in the period after the first year and before the extended warranty kicked in. http://www.gamespot.com/art... Finally, why on earth would people elect to buy a new console when they could repair the faulty one's they bought? It makes no sense and no one, i know, who suffered from the rrod ever bought a brand new console. That just defies logic. So you're saying that in half a year, since the original warranty ran out and before the extended warranty kicked in (retrospectively may i add) that there was this massive surge of new xbox 360 purchases?
"3 year warranty" "3 year warranty" "3 year warranty Does anyone remember last generation lasted EIGHT years? It's still continuing now if you consider that they're both still being sold. Everyone person I know with a 360 bought more than one system because of failures.
@Septic For its first 13 months on the market, the 360 had a 90 day warranty. It wasn't upped to one full year until the end of 2006.
@ septic Your rant, and link did nothing to counter bathyj's point. The Xbox 360 warranty expired nov 2006, the extended warranty was announced July 2007. That's 8 months of non coverage for RRoD. What he was implying is that there are people who bought new consoles because the warranty expired (rather than paying for repairs and being almost a month without a console... That's how long it took when I got my first replacement within warranty). Even once the extended warranty was retro dated, it would only reimburse those that paid for repairs through Microsoft, not people who paid for new consoles (which seems to be the point you missed).
@Godmars290 MS spent over 1.15bm in fixing the RROD issues, doesn't sound like a lot of gamers just spent another $499 on a brand new console. Also care to explain the issues the PS3 had since that wasn't perfectly built either. If you already forgot about the Yellow light and Firmware bricking though its life span. Not defending the 360 but to say it sold so well based off a manufacturing error is low and not to take to account that other systems had issues as well, maybe not as big but still issues that MS went out of there way to fix. Most gamers last gen ended up with more then one console anyway, Iv had friends who had issues with both consoles (PS3/360)which lead to more console sales. Except everyone I knew who had the RROD returned there 360 though warranty, you would have to be stupid to purchase something which cost more then $499 to just buy another one instead of claiming it via warranty, even if the warranty was finished you can still debate the issues with MS and they would have considered a new console. Would you just go out and buy a new car after 1 year if it had problems? No.
The same could be said for the YOLD on the PS3. I had a Fat Day 1 PS3 that got the YOLD which was not under warranty and I replaced it with a LBP Fat PS3 which also got YOLD and I then bought a Slim PS3. I had a day 1 360 that had the RROD that I had replaced by MS and I then upgraded my 360 to the slim when it came out with Kinect. Last gen was abit of nightmare when it came to Sony's and Microsoft's hardware. So far My xbox one and WiiU have not had any issues and I know people with PS4's who have not had issues to far too so looks like a good gen for the hardware so far.
@r20b Firstly, it wasn't a rant. Secondly: "Even once the extended warranty was retro dated, it would only reimburse those that paid for repairs through Microsoft, not people who paid for new consoles (which seems to be the point you missed)." No you seem to miss the point I made. People are making out as if people kept buying 360's repeatedly when that makes no sense considering the existence of warranty and you know, actually repairing it? "rather than paying for repairs and being almost a month without a console... " A month and paying full price for a whole new console? (actually the turn around time was around 2 weeks but I'll humour you). Who are these rich people? What did they do with all the 360's that needed repair? So when someone says the 360 sold as well because of RROD, its complete nonsense and not quantifiable.
@Godmars290, "By many count the only reason the 360 "sold" as well as it did was RROD. People buying new consoles instead of getting old/broken ones repaired." that doesn't really answer why software sales were high and the amount gamers online.
Septic, i typicaly agree with what you say most times but you are way off base here, rrod was terrible and for the first year you had no choice but to pay for repairs or get a new console...if your console lasted the original cover of 90 days lol, but seriously rrod deff helped sell more xboxs wether it was just paper sales or not, numbers were deff boosted because of it.. i see what you mean when saying people were crazy to go out and buy another console when they can get it fixed for free, but i did it twice just to upgrade,oh and two weeks??? Are you joking? I had 5 and 4 of them took 4 weeks the last replacement i had only took 3, but 2 weeks was never even an option for me lol
My brother, uncle, and cousin all did not bother finding a repair shop for thhteir broken Xboxes. They just went to gamestop over and over go get a new. My brother went through 3, uncle went through 6, and cousin went through 13
@retrouk You get a year's warranty on all hardware here in the UK. Surely you must have invoked that?? @bmf "My brother went through 3, uncle went through 6, and cousin went through 13" Right lol. I'm waiting for someone to say they went through 360 360's.
Septic is right, the number of people who purchased new 360s because of RROD would be insignificant. Also the YLOD was far more wide spread than the media and certainly Sony let on, and you actually DID have to purchase a new PS3 or pay for refurbished replacement to fix that, replacements that sleazy Sony undoubtedly counted as sales. Yet we didn't see PS3s numbers inflated much by failures either. In fact if you counted every 360 sold up to the warranty kicked in it would only have been 2 to 3 million tops. The console has sold over 85 million last I checked.
I went though 9 xbox 360's two of then I bought and then I finally said enough is enough and bought a PS3.
MS counted all consoles (broken and working) in their shipped numbers...
I bought my 360 in February of 2006 and from the day I bought it I had a one year warranty. My console failed in January of 2007, was under warranty and was replaced. Lasted me until 2010 or 2011 when the console failed. Cashed in a bunch of gift cards and picked up the newer S designed 360. No problems ever since. There were flaws with the originally designed 360 and large failure rates, but almost everyone I knew who had one that failed was able to get it fixed under warranty. Once the redesign came in 2010 the RROD issue was obsolete. Like another said above, if the only reason the 360 sold as well as it did was due to repurchases, then it wouldn't explain why software sales on the 360 would be higher than the PS3, since the number of unique owners would be considerably less on the 360.
Septic is seriously trying to act like RROD didn't cause people to buy new consoles. That's how far this has gone. That's like the equivalent of a Sony fanboy denying that the PS3 was ever $599 by citing to its later lower prices.
@ septic, i thought i made it clear that i did get all mine replaced, i also thought that i made it clear that i only repurchased bacause of the upgrades? Im not disputing that microsoft fixed them because thats not actually the conversation we are having. Rrod inflated the 360s numbers
Everyone knows most people had at least 2-3 360's due to defective systems. Even with MS's warranty, I know plenty of people who still bought a new 360, due to wanting it now / lazyness / whatever. Only an ignorant fanboy would argue against this. IMO, if not for its high failure rate, the 360 in terms of hardware sales would be around 70-80% of what they are today.
As far as software sales go, the 360 was far more popular than the ps3, even with soaring failure rates. the high price of the ps3, accompanied by the software failures of ps3 multiplat games, and finally, the differences in gaming cultures (fps and sports games are not the focus of the ps3) is the reason why multiplats sold higher on 360. @moldy bread A software purchase will never be 1:1 with a hardware purchase, so dont look at hardware sales being coupled with software sales.
@Septic Qualify this: As someone who used to own and manage a game store, I can tell you without a doubt that a great number of people purchased new 360s instead of repairs. In fact, many of which that bought several. Even most of my former Halo tourney partners bought several units instead of repairs. One thing many of you seem to forget is that repaired units would often fail again. The Xbox warranty after repair would last the balance of your original warranty or 90 days, whichever is longer. http://support.xbox.com/en-...
More than half of all 360s were sold in the US, where there was only a 90 day warranty at best until July 2007. Roughly 17 months on the market, and only 3 of them would be covered. Common sense would tell you that, if a reported ~50% fail rate was happening, a significant number of consumer-funded replacements would have been bought.
The Ole RROD argument...You don't have to pick a side to see that this clearly was a non issue. I never understood how people could discount a company spending a BILLION dollars on something so you can return and get your item back for free! We never get/got a defense of YLOD, and Sony NOT HAVING A WARRANTY at all in place. How did Sony the company manage to account for those loses or gains with this issue in place for the PS3? That's no body respects the RROD argument against Microsoft, and why gamers took a relatively blind eye towards it. I'm not sure a certain portion of the gaming audience understood the Mea Copa that Microsoft took, and how gamers felt great/secure about the Xbox 360... RROD has always been a fake trojan horse for people to disclaim how well the Xbox 360 sold. You had a warranty that was retroactive for a defective purchased console; and active upon purchase of a new console. Since Sony had no such warranty in place for YLOD. The argument being made for Microsoft selling more systems due to RROD is not a good one. Where are the numbers from the claims that show a distinction? How do you breakdown the loss of a BILLION dollars that went to fixing this issue? Does this get counted against the new Xbox 360 systems that were sold after, and before? From the profits made by the Xbox division has it been paid off or not? We have no idea how many gamers went out and repurchased a PS3 due to YLOD. From the unfathomable amount of firmware issues that would brick some PS3's, and the paying of repairs by gamers in excess of $140 dollars. You could say VERY Strongly, and RIGHTFULLY that Sony's PS3 numbers are inflated as a result of repurchases due to YLOD.
Everyone discounted Nintendo. This is the first time 1 of the other 2 game company's even MENTIONED Nintendo...
Microsoft extended their warranty to 3 years after the RROD issue arose. Without receipt! I personally owned 3 consoles at once in different rooms of my house. Not due to replacing systems that were "defective" but for the limited edition releases and convenience. I'm sure that's difficult for the hardcore Sony fans to grasp.
@septic Actually Micorsoft didnt extend the warranty until they openly admitted that the issue was huge. By that time some people have already bought their second console. The actual number of people who bought their second console is unknown though. @Kingslayer YLOD did existed but it wasnt as big as the RROD. the xbox 360 had a reported RROD rate of 33-34% where as the PS3 was reportedly at 5-6%. I cross checked most sites and most reported similar numbers. https://sites.google.com/si... When you compare a 34% to 6% failure rate, the 6% is above what is allowed in the industry when you have hardware that are mass produced. You act as if this was as big as the xbox360 RROD, its not and dont make it to be.
In the beginning it was a 90 day warranty. Months past that warranty people ended up buying new consoles before the court told them to extend it or take it off the market. They didn't care. I personally know four people who had two xbox 360's because they didn't want to deal with it. It's stupid as heck but a lot of people just buy a new one because they want it right at that moment and then they forget about their old one rather than at least send it in and get a second one back. One of my friends never got the RRoD but he had a broken disc drive. He forced it to overheat just to get that repaired.
@NeckBeard... I'm not a "hardcore sony fan" but I am having difficulty grasping your point. I understand you're saying not everybody that bought multiple 360's did so due to defective units, but surely that's true of any system, so... What's your point?
For people who could afford it we bought new consoles. Why am i waiting even 10 days for it to come back without anything to play? Assuming people just sent them all back and waited patiently sometimes up to 3 weeks to get the console back is a much bigger liberty to take then saying people went out and bought a new console while there's was being repaired. I never had RROD i had disk read errors and just last year i went back to play Witcher 2 on the COD console and after like 4 hrs i turned it off and it never turned back on. It's my brothers who lives a bit away so i'm just hoping he never asks for it back so i don't have to buy a new one :x for him. i went thru 2 360's my bro who knows but i know i bought news one everytime because i could afford it and i have ADD. Plus i couldn't go a whole 3 weeks or even 3 days without Battlestations Midway MP.
@King. Your comment of the RROD being a "non-issue" is laughable. when any electronic device has a 54.2% fail rate, it is a major issue. When a company tries to deceive consumers that it is an isolated issue, knowing full well that is not the case, it is a major issue. The 360 fail rate was 54.2% not 22% or 33% (both of which is still unacceptable) but a whopping 54%. http://www.ign.com/articles... Yes, MS tried to act like it was a "non-issue" (like you are doing now.), but the facts & numbers do not lie. Here is a link from 11 Jun 2008 on IGN where MS initial claims that hardware failures were a slim 3% through much of the console's first year of availability. http://www.ign.com/articles... The "non-issue" was a major issue.
When you can provide everyone solid proof of that, I'd think we would all love to see it. Any Xbox 360 I had that RROD I sent to get repaired for FREE. I believe the majority of gamers did this. Who wouldn't get this console fixed for free instead of paying $399 for a new one? That's just dumb.
In my country there is no way we can turn for the official warranty, we have 3 months of coverage by the import stores and that's it, everyone I know had 2 or 3 X360s because of technical issues, so yeah, by my experience, Bathyj has a point Septic, there were lots of sales that microsoft had because of failure rates, many people weren't willing to part ways with their established collection of games and accesories.
Godmars your wrong - like 80% of the people sent it back and got fixed, refurb or new for no cost. I know 6 people it happened to. All just send it back, was like brand new 3 weeks later. RRoD screwed Microsoft, but they did it to themselves and they earned respect by taking responsibility for their actions. * ^ Lot of respect for that. But yea nobody won any gen except maybe PS2.. PS2 & NES were the only clear cut winners ever. Some could argue PS1, but the N64 had way to many memorable and classic games to not be factored in. * So the one time a console actually won ( PS2), it was because it had a ton of games. * PS3 didn't have a lot of games in beginning, but Wii did, so it sold better. when wii games decreased, so did sales. When PS3 games increase variety, so did sales. Consoles need games.
Where are all these people gettin 90 day warrantees from? It had a one year warrantee from the start, then if you got your console repaired it was the balance of your warranty or 90 days what ever was longer. I know first hand because I sent mine in in October 2006 for RROD and got it back, then 98 days later I got the E85 error and MS told me it'd be $160 to repair it and I got mad, went to future shop, bought a new one, put my old one in the box and returned it telling them it was broken. Woulda been re-imbursed later when they extended the warranty but I wasn't paying to get my console that was just repaired repaired again. My first 40gb PS3 got the Ylod as well, but I signed up with Rogers cell phone and got a slim one a couple months later for free. I have had 2 other 360s since but all 3 are going strong still in different rooms in my house. An premium edition, elite and slim
People who kept replacing a fault console over and over again are dum dums....
Every single person I know that had a 360, bought more than 1, sometimes because RROD, sometimes because of a collectors edition or redesign, and sometimes because of theft.
@Septic: The original warranty was only 1 year and the extension didn't happen until 2 years in. Also the original warranty required the user to pay shipping costs both ways, which was not cheap, especially if you lived outside the U.S. Then you had to wait on average 3 weeks to get the system back. Alot of people also for some reason do not know about manufacturers warranties. They assume the 3 month store warranty is all they have. There were forum posts all over the internet around the 1.5-2 year marks, including here on N4G, with people claiming to have purchased through as many as 6 360s due to RRODs.
I bought two, first in 2006 and again in 2008, all broken by RROD, never bought the third. That pushed me away from the Xbox brand, even today. If I come to buy an XbOne one day, It will be at the end of the generation, costing $99 in some sale.
I went through 5 360s and only 2 was due to repairs. I bought a 360 three times. I went through 3 gears of war disc because no matter what 360 I had it was notorious for scratching up disc.
If the RROD didn't occur ms probably would have sold 5-10 million consoles less. When someone's console broke that early on there weren't a whole lot of fixes known so they would just buy a new one. I know people who got 3 Xbox 360s.
Yea my friend rebought 5 times, kept asking why guess halo and gears of war were just that great and I suppose many felt the same way. Now keep in mind not all 5 those 360 were freshly new I'm sure
@nitrowolf, If your friend bought 5 xbox 360's and didn't try and return them for free(since they had a three year warranty) then he was just straight dumb. We had two fail early on and we had both replaced for free because of the warranty. Yes it took a couple weeks, but so what....the the machine was almost 2 and a half years old!
I shamefully replaced 2 360s (owned 3 total) over the course of time. Got my first when it came out which surprisingly lasted longer than expected. The only reason I even went after consoles 2 and 3 was bc Im in the military, and have some really close friends back home I like to jam with.
Not only does the red ring occur after a three year period but that first extended warranty was for the first batch of consoles.
Could say the same with every PS3 and Nintendo break downs as well. Remember nothing is perfect. PS3 had heaps of firmware issues plus yellow lighting while Nintendo Wii I had replaced based off it had CPU problems after 4 years.
@azzanation sure you can say the same about other consoles as well. however, the other consoles didnt have a 33-34% failure rate.
@ABRADLEY, Wrong. The new 3 year warranty started in July of 2007. This means all systems from launch until then were covered......AND ALL new systems until July of 2010, as long as they were under 3 years old. So if the system was over 3 years old, too bad. http://www.gamespot.com/art...
You do know by this logic you are also stating that a portion of PS3 sales just came from pissed off X360 owners jumping ship right?
Xbox 360 sales were inflated by the Rrod many people just bought new consoles so no ,Xbox came in dead last with or without the Rrod
It won 7th gen for the girlfriends and grandmas. 'true gamers' made the 360 or ps3 home..
True "gamers" brought the PC back into the limelight.
Get out of here with that, I'm talking about sales and so is this article. and regardless of what you say "true gamers" play whatever the hell they want.
They still wouldn't have won gen 7. The Wii would have been in first the PS3 in second and the XB1 in 3rd.
See, if you look at console sales, yes the Wii Won. However, does more consoles sold mean people enjoyed the console more? No. For me, the PS3 won. Great services mixed with top notch exclusives and they outsold the 360. I think I had two games on my wii that I enjoyed, thats it!
Sure it all comes down to personal preference, but sales do bring more support...not that any of them were hurting for it last gen. The Wii had more games released for it in it's lifespan than either of the other consoles. A good portion of it was shovelware, but still support is a good thing. The Wii was enjoyable for what it was, and it did have some solid hardcore games on it...just not in plenty.
I'm not sure if they would have sold the most consoles (it's possible they would have sold less without people purchasing replacements for RRODs), but they did manage to take a LOT of the marketshare from Sony. Granted, they lost almost all of it this gen due to numerous bad announcement/launch decisions, but the 360 was definitely a big winner in Gen 7.
I owned a Wii, it sure felt like it lost! Towards the end it wasn't getting any good games, while the PS3 and xbox360 were.
360 is still selling well and has outsold Wii in the USA, and the ps3 worldwide.
Pretty sure it hasn't sold more than PS3 worldwide, even with an additional year on the market.
360 is around 1.5 million behind PS3 in worldwide sales and to this day the PS3 wins worldwide sales every month over 360 so that number is getting larger.
Big I know you can't be serious with that comment. In order to win a generation your product would have to sell in All REGIONS as provenance by PS1,2 and the Wii. MS main user base is the US and UK it doesn't do well enough anywhere else to actually win a generation outright.
The 360 didn't sell much at launch because people were waiting to see how the PS3 would turn out by launch, and the Xbox was already a comparitively underwhelming brand to PlayStation. When the PS3 launched, Xbox 360 sales went up because it was cheaper. Defective, but cheaper that $600
Exactly... It was the PS3's early failures that's secured the 360's success.
Haha won? It was a 3-way tie. -PS3 sold second most but lost a lot of money. However they set themselves up for a fantastic follow-up. -Xbox sold the worst and lost a lot of money. It also set itself up for a mediocre follow-up. -Wii sold the most consoles, but in the process alienated almost all of Nintendo's partners and many of their biggest fans. No matter what they launched the follow-up was screwed.
The last official reported figures from Sony and Microsoft for PS3 and XBox 360 sales were: Sony PS3 80 million (Nov 2013) XBox 360 84 million (Microsoft reported this last year at the E3 June 2014. Sony has refused to post their PS3 sales figures by themselves since Nov 2013, when they reported 80 million) So the Xbox 360 was not last going by these figures. Until Sony and Microsoft can give us current update to date figures, this is were we stand. Everyone keeps saying PS3 is ahead, but they can't provide proof. VGChartz is not proof. They had PS3 ahead when Microsoft reports 80 million and Sony reported 80 million 2 months later. Facts are facts.