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Final Fantasy VII Remake Cannot Move Away from the Turn-Based Combat

Contrary to popular belief among folks who have not played the original Final Fantasy VII, the game was not brilliant just because of its story, but also because of its unique game mechanics. Introducing anything other than the turn-based system will cripple the much-loved Materia mechanics, which was instrumental in giving a unique structure and meaning to game.

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SeanScythe897d ago

Yes it can.... I'm hoping it does.

Spotie897d ago

I don't think I'll mind one way or another.

I DO think these people that can't handle this game unless it's turn-based are mired in the past.

Kingthrash360897d ago

I do, I think turn based RPGs should stay that way. It's a classic let let it stay a classic...the battle system was ok how it was switching it up could get a result similar to ff13. True fans of ff7 don't want that much to change about it besides visuals....changing the battle system is a major change. Besides there aren't many turn based RPGs anymore.

897d ago
Adrian_v01897d ago

@Kingthrash

But, the classic will stay classic. Just cause there's a remake version the old game won't get deleted from existence...

Irishguy95897d ago (Edited 897d ago )

Kingthrash, i'd wager to say FF7 is my favorite game of all time.

I want a better battle system though. I certainly don't love FF for its combat. I love it for every thing else about it. Also, doing the remake differently than the old one...ISN'T GOING TO CHANGE THE OLD ONE

Why the hell you guys want to play the same game with updated graphics is beyond me. I dont' get why people want to pay money for the same experience. Play the old one again ffs and let them try something else with it. If it turns out crap then **** it, the old one is there. If it turns out to be quality...then we could have truly superior version of FF7. Not just an update.

Elda896d ago

Absolutely agreed!...stuck in the past/rut.

thekhurg896d ago

Has nothing to do with nostalgia.

Turned based combat is simply better for strategic battles and ability use. Knowing exactly when specific characters are going to have their turn allows you to plan your buffs, heals and offensive attacks better.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 896d ago
Takwin897d ago

I will only buy it if it is turn based. They can change the graphics and story a considerable amount and it will still have the soul of FF VII, but it will not be the same game without turn based.

If you disagree, take an action RPG like The Witcher or Skyrim and give it the pure turn-based combat of Divinity Original Sin.

Crimzon897d ago

The thing I don't understand, is why bother doing a remake in the first place if you're just going to change everything? It doesn't really make sense to me. If they interfere with the gameplay and story etc. then it's no longer a remake is it? It's more of a remix.

Kingthrash360897d ago

Money talks....plus people are remaking games left and right....ff7 was a requested remake before all of them...also they won't tweak the story they will inhance it. Like add more back story or something of that nature.

meatnormous897d ago

Same here. Anything besides turn based combat will ruin the feel of FF7.

insomnium2897d ago

As takwin said the balance of the combat would be ruined most likely one way or another. Additionally many enemy skills and magic are centered around the fact that the game is turn based.

In short the game would be ruined if they choose to change the turn based combat. They would have to work around many many things and re-invent moves to get the balace right. It would be a different game and therefore be ruined for me.

vallencer897d ago

I think the turn based will stay but I think random battles will get thrown out. Materia won't go anywhere. It can't because it's part of the story.

DragonKnight897d ago

If it's action based then that necessitates controlling only one character, eliminates Limit Breaks and certain other attacks, makes other party members controlled by computer A.I.

In short, it wouldn't FFVII.

ninsigma897d ago

I can't see how non turn based would get rid of limit breaks. Obviously you could use your own and then as part of the strategy settings for each character you could set when you want them to perform their limit break e.g as soon as they get it or when their health is low etc. I'm on the fence about whether the combat should change or not. Simply because we don't know how this game is going to look or feel. It might be in a way that turn based just doesn't work. Which is why I'm taking a wait and see approach about this. I'll be getting it either way. It's ff7, my favourite game of all time, I will not be missing this :D

Irishguy95897d ago (Edited 897d ago )

Hmmm, it eliminates other attacks how? What the hell is wrong with you guys imagination? Why are limit breaks gone if its action based? Please explain

DK...

Slash all: Make your attack hit all of them. Very simple. Hit 1 enemy = hit all. Not so hard right? Flash was 1 hit ko was it? Thats in many action rpgs already. There is in fact alot of oppertunity to actually do real time affects that affect YOU the player. Haste speeds YOU up, confuse makes YOU confused, I mean...all it takes its a bit of thought. The effects on turn based are simply 'turn based' version of real things. I mean heck, look at advent children. Theres already enough in their to see how an action based FF7 could play out, I mean thats what I thought people wanted a remake for. Advent children being 'what could have been'. And the reason people got excited for FF versus in the first place. Now we have that chance and people are moaning about changes.

Omnislash -> See FFXV https://www.youtube.com/wat... black beam, it can hit the targetted one enemy and split off auto directed at other enemies. Very simple. But hey, don't ask me, just wait and see. Nomura has show to be very creative with the attacks already in the KH series and FFXV.

DragonKnight897d ago

@Ninsigma: How do you propose to use Omnislash on a moving target? It would require immobilizing them to perform the attack which would be immersion breaking no matter what. And how do you propose to allow for Blade Beam to break off and damage multiple opponents who are not lined up in a sufficient way to do so? Obviously some Limit Breaks would work, but many wouldn't and would need a complete redesign.

Actually, the closest the FF series has ever come to limits in a semi-action based sense is in FFXII with Quickenings. But all of them required kind of pausing the battle to focus on the Quickening which highlights the fact that FFXII was only pseudo action based.

@Irishguy: There are some attacks and materia that attack all enemies but are not something you could consider AoE, and even those that would be AoE would necessitate specific conditions in order to work. How do you propose to use the depth of the Materia system if you have to redesign it so that Materia like Slash All or Flash can still be useful? Slash All is a Command Materia that allows the user to attack all enemies on screen with a physical attack, how does that work if you're playing the game like it was, say, Devil May Cry?

Essentially the only way that FFVII can work as an action based game is by being a hybrid action/turn based game.

An action based game will also negatively effect the complexity of the Materia system as there are more than a couple materia that would have to be removed because they'd be useless.

But hey, if you think your imagination can come up with something that would work, detail it.

starcatcher897d ago

not true. tales of series is action rpg as well as final fantasy type 0, and you can control everyone

starcatcher897d ago

not true. Tales of and type 0 let you
control everyone in your party..

Spotie897d ago

Are you not familiar with action RPGs, DK? As starcatcher notes, Tales is an action rpg that allows you to control everyone while you move around onscreen. For that matter, so is Star Ocean.

In neither case are you restricted to just one character, nor are you prevented from using specials like Limit Breaks.

DragonKnight897d ago (Edited 897d ago )

At starcatcher and Spotie: I have 2 Tales of games. You control one character while the other two are A.I. controlled. You can switch between characters if you wish, but you're still only going to control one character while the others are A.I. controlled. Now in ATB you're still only controlling one character at a time based on their turn, but you get to use all characters at least once with no real need to create a "favourite" preference based on moveset.

So if FFVII went Action based, then there will be a character you control while the other 2 are A.I. controlled and you'll definitely develop a favourite character to use, disincentivizing the use of the other characters.

The Tales of "Mystic Artes" works the same way as Quickenings in FFXII, that being turning from an action based sequence to a turn based sequence for the duration of the ultimate attack. This is why I said the only way FFVII can work as an Action game is as a hybrid Action/Turn based game.

Spotie897d ago

You also said it would eliminate Limit Breaks and other attacks, but I don't see how.

At least you're not claiming it'll ruin the materia system, too.

Godmars290897d ago (Edited 897d ago )

Nomura doesn't have any familiarity with turn based combat mechanics, hence he wont like consider them.

So, considering that and other factors, the FF7 remake will very likely only be that in name.

@ninsigma:
"I can't see how non turn based would get rid of limit breaks."

Consider what limit breaks or special attacks looked like in FF12. That only one character in FF13 had one.

DragonKnight896d ago

@Spotie: Limit Breaks as we know them can't happen in a purely action based game. That's just a fact. Tales of makes use of a turn based mechanic in order to pull off the ultimate attacks that it does. The general gameplay is action based, but the ultimate attacks aren't because they can't be. The Limit Breaks would either have to exist as part of a hybrid Action/Turn based system, or completely redone in order to fit a purely action based combat system. You can't expect to land an Omnislash on a moving opponent.

And an Action based system does impact the Materia system because there are materia that are dependent on aspects unique to turn based systems.

For example Slash All can't work in an Action based system. It's a materia designed to allow for one physical attack against all enemies on screen, it isn't feasible in an action based game with different enemy locations who also move around. All Materia can still work because it's paired with magic, but many command Materia will either be useless or just not as useful.

What I'm personally interested in seeing though is the summons. FFXV spoiled me as to how they can work. I also would like to see buff effects on character or weapon. For example if you use Elemental Fire on your weapon, I want to see the weapon engulfed in fire. But I doubt that will happen.

ninsigma896d ago

@Dragon

Well yeah, immobilising the target is how it would work. It's not immerssion breaking because to perform a move such as omnislash, you're gonna have a big cutscene like event to show off the move, so enemy gets immobilised then bang bang bang bang bang in spectacular JRPG fashion.

"And how do you propose to allow for Blade Beam to break off and damage multiple opponents who are not lined up in a sufficient way to do so"

Well It's simple enough to grab the other enemies locations on screen and have the beam move to that location. My degree was in gaming, that's pretty simple stuff.

"Obviously some Limit Breaks would work, but many wouldn't and would need a complete redesign"

The game is a remake, not a remaster, of course it's going to get redesigned! This game is going to look, feel and play totally different.

DragonKnight896d ago (Edited 896d ago )

@ninsigma: "Well yeah, immobilising the target is how it would work. It's not immerssion breaking because to perform a move such as omnislash, you're gonna have a big cutscene like event to show off the move, so enemy gets immobilised then bang bang bang bang bang in spectacular JRPG fashion."

Of course it's immersion breaking. You're telling me that you wouldn't think it's immersion breaking to be playing a game like DMC and then in the middle of combat you bust out a super move that requires absolutely no action on your part during a cutscene? It's essentially less than making them QTEs.

"Well It's simple enough to grab the other enemies locations on screen and have the beam move to that location. My degree was in gaming, that's pretty simple stuff."

No it's not. A) The enemies are moving. B) If you have say 3 enemies. The one you're targeting is at 12 o'clock, one is at 5 o'clock and the last is at 9 o'clock it'd be ridiculously stupid for the beams to just branch off like that, especially considering that in the original game it couldn't work like that to begin with.

"The game is a remake, not a remaster, of course it's going to get redesigned! This game is going to look, feel and play totally different."

It's not a reimagining. Remake means to take something that already exists and remake it with current capabilities, it doesn't mean change everything up. And no, the game is not going to look, feel and play totally different. So far Nomura has confirmed that stuff like the humour is going to remain intact, likely going to be additions to the story instead of changes, and he was vague on the combat. With the exception of graphics being completely redone, this is still going to be Final Fantasy VII, otherwise there would be no point in calling it a remake when they could simply do FFVII-2.

ninsigma896d ago

"Of course it's immersion breaking"
Well considering it's going to do a big scene to pull the move off then stopping the enemy isn't going to make a difference. It's been done before.

"The enemies are moving"
There is nothing to say that the other enemies have to be hit. Hit the target then the beams branch off and sometimes it will miss because the enemy has moved at the last second. I mean come on, it was possible to miss the enemies even when they were standing still! It's also possible to have the branching beams to move crazy fast so the enemies don't have time to move.

"If you have say 3 enemies. The one you're targeting is at 12 o'clock, one is at 5 o'clock and the last is at 9 o'clock it'd be ridiculously stupid for the beams to just branch off like that, especially considering that in the original game it couldn't work like that to begin with"

Why would it be stupid?? As long as a beam doesn't come back through the player then there is no reason for it not to work. You're thinking too linearly.

"Remake means to take something that already exists and remake it with current capabilities"

I know what remake means. Action rpg in the style we're talking about was not possible on the hardware back then (if at all). Now the systems can handle such a game. There you have your current capabilities.

"additions to the story instead of changes"
I never said the story was going to change, I'm talking about how the game plays.

"he was vague on the combat"
He was only vague because you want him to be vague. I found this to be quite understandable tbh.
"“We can’t have these upgraded, beautiful 3D models of Cloud and Barrett, still lining up in a row, jumping forward to attack an enemy, then jumping back to wait for their next turn,” Nomura said.

“That would be bizarre. Of course there will likely be changes there.”"
http://www.vg247.com/2015/0...

"this is still going to be Final Fantasy VII"

Of course it's still going to be ff7. That's a no brainer. But changes are coming. I'd get used to that fact soon before you're too disappointed when they reveal gameplay.

+ Show (10) more repliesLast reply 896d ago
MehmetAlperTR897d ago

No it doesnt and it cant. Because we loved the materia system.. it was so cool.. Here comes the GOld Chocobo and Knights of The Round Table Materia :))

Irishguy95897d ago

Why does the combat changing remove the materia system???

MehmetAlperTR897d ago (Edited 897d ago )

I dont want them to change the materia system. I really liked the old system and please make the musics by Nubouo Uematsu.. https://www.youtube.com/wat... THIS IS LEGEND.. And PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE IT..

-Foxtrot897d ago

Why? I mean we are getting a different battle system with FF15, if you want that kind of stuff play FF15.

Fans have been waiting for a remake for years. Don't change the bloody gameplay of all things

Turned base can work. They just need to make it a bit faster, especially going in and out of battle.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 896d ago
pompombrum897d ago (Edited 897d ago )

I really hope they keep it turn based and would be pretty upset if it turned into an action rpg however I do have to agree with Nomura when he said that having the characters stand still until their next turn would look weird with updated visuals. Hopefully they'll come up with some sort of hybrid where it's still turn based but always feels involving.

AnotherProGamer897d ago

They should add a system like Legend of Dragoons timed attacks

Those feel really involving

DragoonsScaleLegends897d ago

Now that's a game I really want remade, along with MediEvil.

CDzNutts897d ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought FFVII was time based, not turn based....in other words, you had to wait for time to pass before attacking, not your turn.

Could be wrong, as it's been years...

DragonKnight897d ago

Those are essentially the same thing. ATB, or Active Time Battle, does have a "meter" that builds up to indicate attack turns. But even in a game like FFX, which uses CTB (Conditional Turn-Based Battle), the speed stat is the ultimate decider of who goes next, be it enemy or player, in both systems. The higher your speed stat the sooner your turn comes up in both games.

Number-Nine897d ago

You still have to wait your turn to attack. It's just a different take on turn based combat.

thebudgetgamer897d ago

If it's not turn based it's not FF7.

CDzNutts895d ago

If it doesnt have small blocky characters and old school sound effects, its also not FFVII.

So basically....you don't want them to remake this game at all. Since re-doing anything would make it not FFVII.

blainio09897d ago

pretty sure the devs have confirmed it wont be turn based

ZerobyZero897d ago

Yeah they did said that the combat is similar to ffxv

CorndogBurglar897d ago

Pretty sure you are 100% wrong. They haven't confirmed anything about the combat. They said changes would get made to the game, but didn't say what changes.

Irishguy95897d ago (Edited 897d ago )

They said they'd be making combat more realistic. Nomura did.

Dunno how you guys missed it

http://www.cinemablend.com/...

For reference http://www.siliconera.com/2...

Nomura's 'Realistic'

"Final Fantasy VII is special, and we can’t ‘exceed’ the game by simply making the graphics nicer. That’s not a thing to be excited about.

Precisely because it’s a full remake, I want to challenge what’s fun and what’s possible now."

You guys can moan about it and deny it until the gameplay is shown. Its obviously not going to be turn based. Like...turn based is in no way realistic. Maybe FF12 is a bit more realistic, atleast then you can say they're just planning. But limiting anything to 'turns' is just completely unrealistic. Nomura isn't going for that.