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I'm Worried For The Gaming Community

Mark from PN2 shares his concerning thoughts on the gaming community, following a few interesting comments made on his previous opinion piece.

"I’m going to cause controversy with what I’m about to type. Frankly no matter what I say here, there’s gonna be heat. I have no fear.

In my previous article, I discussed my thoughts on EA’s inclusion of a number of international women’s teams in FIFA 16. A worthy inclusion, as others besides me have pointed out. As I usually do with my articles, to help share my thoughts, I shared it through N4G. Being a small site, it’s always good to be able to converse with other outlets and readers.

The response to my article was big, far bigger than I thought it would be. Generally I get maybe a passing couple of views, sometimes a good number if it goes up at the right time. On this occasion, I posted at just the right time and seemingly about the right topic, a topic that has been discussed in some way or form a fair amount of late come to th...

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MrSwankSinatra929d ago (Edited 929d ago )

Let me get this straight you're worried about the gaming community because.... a few people made some immature comments? Hate to break it to you, but there is always going to be a minority of people saying questionable things pertaining to any sort of topic. It's called living in the real world.

kartanym929d ago

Yeah, I am worried and you're right, there's always going to be people like that, I quite clearly mention that in this article. But what I'm not going to do is just sit here and take it and not say anything at all. We seem to think that just because it's the internet, we're not allowed to stand our ground and push back. If this is the real world, as you say, then I'm going to do the same on here as I do out there, and that's stand up. If you don't like that, that's your call, and this is mine.

bmwfanatic929d ago

People like you really aggravate me. N4g is not the place for political/social hardcore dialogue. Go to a liberal political forum if you want serious thought provoking dialogue. The post didnt offend me most seemed more tongue in cheek humor than anything else. Certainly nothing to generaliza a whole community over.

rainslacker929d ago (Edited 929d ago )

Did that warrant an article being posted on the topic? Couldn't you have just discussed it in the comment section itself without bringing your concerns for the community, or are you actively trying to antagonize the community you're worried about by generalizing based on the comments which have you concerned?

Writing an article on the topic is akin to writing a blog on the topic. It's just a way for you to express your opinion with a more authoritative presence that an article author is given subconsciously by the reader. It doesn't really help your argument, just slants the conversation towards your own whims.

A frequent member of this site, DragonKnight, often writes blogs which are extensions of his comments on these threads. That doesn't make his arguments any more sound than he made them in the threads themselves, and more often than not, it only regurgitates the same responses that came before. To his credit, while he often does generalize, he also often backs up his arguments with links to support his thinking. He's not perfect, but rarely does he flounder in his assessment.

It's fine to stand your ground, but stand it on an individual basis against the people who you disagree with and give them arguments on why you feel they are wrong. No one is going to take you seriously, or really care what you have to say on the topic if you generalize an entire community based on a few singular responses.

Edit: all the above being said, I looked at your posting/user page, and it would appear the only time you even interact with the community is when you post your own articles.

This would lead me to believe that you take a fairly minimal part in the community itself. If you're concerned for the community of gamers, which isn't wholly represented by those here on N4G, then I would suggest becoming more active within it, and trying to bring discourse which can actually provide positive change, instead of taking a critical stance of "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality and applying it across the board.

kartanym929d ago

There was never any doubt in my mind about writing an article compared to writing a forum post. I'm a journalist, it's what I do and will always do. I write what I feel is important, not just to me. If it creates conversation, I'll continue to do so, but having said that I'll take everything said here into consideration for what happens next.

I'd also like point to the piece of the article where I state "Let me be specific. Not everyone falls into that category, thankfully. In the real world, there are far more polite, intelligent and respectful gamers out there. Too many to count. I'm talking about a minority". Obviously I'm not going to suggest that everyone falls into one category, there are many. The comments made to the article in question are just the tip of the iceberg.

And I also greatly expected people to disagree or argue against what I say, and I'm perfectly fine with that, as long as (and I'm glad to see this in the comments here) that they are creating a conversation and not falling into slander or hatred. So in that, I respect everyone's opinion here.

rainslacker929d ago

And again you generalize. Not only in real life, but on N4G, or other forums, there are a far larger number of people who can post thoughtful comments worthy of discussion or consideration. More often than not, you only have to scroll past the first one or two comments to find it, as the first comment is where the trolls mostly reside.

I respect that you think that these kinds of things need to change within the community, and by extension the internet as a whole, but the article you're posting is not the way to go about it. Your arguments have been used since before the world wide web was even a thing. I ran message boards which could quickly devolve into what you see here on a daily basis, and the internet allows people to speak their mind without the forethought of if what they're saying is right, factual, or considerate. the only way to make a forum as a whole(without trolls running rampant) is to moderate the forum, and nowadays that just isn't going to happen because the internet is a click based culture. You deny the trolls, the trolls go where they're welcome. Simple fact of the internet. That's not a problem with the community, but with the society in which the community resides, and it would take quite the feat to rectify that issue.

So what's a person to do?

Well, for one, interact with the community and try to make it better. If you care to address something concerning that someone brings up, then do it on an individual basis, or at most limit the amount of generalization you do. It won't solve the issue, but it will make the community better, even if your particular comments aren't front and center for everyone to see. Given your prior articles and comment history, I wouldn't take you as antagonistic in general, and overall you are respectful towards other posters. You've also been using this site for almost three years, so it makes me wonder why after all this time, you are now concerned. There have been far worse things said on this site than what was in the FIFA article you cite. This doesn't make those comments right in that thread, but given the current state of what's going on in the gaming community nowadays with GG and SJW and such, it does throw a red flag that an article like this is posted out of the blue when the evidence seems to be something that simply verifies an already believed conclusion.

All that being said, you say you're a journalist. Given the clickbait title, and the description used for the article, then I can say this article falls into the category of hit seeking sensationalism, as they both generalize just enough to put the community on the defensive. That's never a good way to start a discourse that you want to be discussed seriously, as I think you are finding out. Qualifying your statements within the article itself is proper, but it doesn't set up the tone of your article, or the topic at hand, as being anything but antogonistic.

freshslicepizza929d ago

here's a suggestion, n4g should remove the comments when they get flagged. remove them, don't hide them. they also need to take more aggressive actions in getting rid of these people. oddly enough those who only have few bubbles seem to be in a lot of topics and generate a lot of responses. n4g needs to look at that too and figure a way to remove them completely if they add nothing to the discussions or the community.

i don't see the need to generalize though, it helps nobody.

antias929d ago (Edited 929d ago )

Of course people have the right to voice their opinion unless they live in a dictatorship. Just because some people don't give care about female teams in Fifa doesn't mean there is a problem in gaming. If anything it means we aren't politically correct zombies that just go along with obvious unscientific bullshit.

Omnisonne929d ago

@ kartanym

You can push back all you want, but it isnt going to change anything. If in the best case you managed to correct a handful of people, more newcomers will come along with the same type of comments.

To be honest im doubting whether this article is just another of the many grinds on the same endless (and pretty much unsolvable) issue just to generate more views or clicks, or if its an actual concern.

Given the latter, you might have had the right intentions but as said above, the generalizing and plain misinformation/ misinterpretation seems more as an attempt to heat up the flames instead of trying to actually improve anything.

3-4-5928d ago

* I'm worried about the journalist community and their over exaggerating 1/10 issues and making them out to be 10/10 issues.

* I'm worried about the journalism community and their lack of credibility,integrity,honestly and ability to see reality for what it is.

* I'm worried that too many people who have a voice are much too biased when they should be fair and balanced.

* I feel that certain journalists are calling for "equality" when really they just want all the rules in their favor.

Dee_91928d ago (Edited 928d ago )

I think I posted in the article, it was very weird the behavior of a lot of the people there.Its not behavior you often on here
http://n4g.com/news/1732837...
But I assume they were just kids or it's some joke i'm not in on.The gaming community is gigantic however, and within that community there are crappy people.What those crappy people do, isn't indicative of what the community is about.

@rainslacker
I get what you are saying, but its really not a generalization when he specifically states its a small few ( not sure if there was an edit involved), however reading the headline it seems like he's talking about the community as a whole.

@bmwfanatic
N4G is a place to discuss gaming culture so politics and societal issues are bound to interweave with the culture.I know a lot of gamers aren't socially and politically conscious, but some are, and issues like sexism and racism etc within the community matters.;

My issue with that is, theres a line between simply discussing the issue and pointing the finger trying shame a group of people.I don't mean its wrong to shame the idiots making the comments ( though shaming is a weak tactic), but when you say stuff like, "I’m tired of being a gamer, a journalist, a writer in general, watching the world I love become embroiled in constant controversy"
This is that BS, guilty by association mentality made famous by internet feminist.
I don't associate myself with sexist and racist period and I think it's stupid to let sexist and racist gamers make you question something you love doing.
I'm not worried about the gaming culture image just like I'm not worried about the "black" or "white" or "gay" image, because the only people that think stereotypes and generalizations hold some value in reality, are ignorant people, and I don't waste my time caring or thinking about what those type of people feel or think.
You can be though, just don't try to put the pressure on people who doesn't care or feel the same way.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 928d ago
helterskelter929d ago

I am worried that the gaming community are hyper sensitive and almost religiously defend their consoles against all criticisms. You cannot seem to have a legitimate opinion about the xbone lately without being rabidly attacked by some xbox cultists!

GenuineGamer929d ago (Edited 929d ago )

What is your legitimate opinion? I would like to know.

Not trying to attack you, just thought you might like to share it and we'll see what happens. lol

zidane1341929d ago

You do realize Sony and PC elitists are just as rampant, right? Xbox is still in the minority, while there are so many completely anti Xbox that try to act as if it has the power of a PS2 or gamecube. There aren't too many pc elitists on this site, but there all annoying.

rainslacker929d ago

I don't think the author is talking about fanboyism in general. What you say is mostly true, with a fanboyish taint, but it's not something insular to the Xbox brand. In many cases, xbox fans can't have "legitimate opinions" without also being attacked in the same way. Same goes both ways for Sony or Nintendo or PC or any game a person may be discussing.

I say this, and GenuineGamer, and many others will probably call me a Sony fan, if not a fan boy, but I can call a spade a spade.

helterskelter929d ago (Edited 929d ago )

"What is your legitimate opinion? I would like to know."

Microsoft tried to kill console gaming with DRM and anti consumer practices! If it was not for a vocal reaction against it they would have got their way!
Unfortunately in the xbones case, lately it just seems that nobody is allowed to criticize it as a platform to game on anymore!
I do own a PC and PS4 and once gamed alot on a 360 but once microsoft tried to corner off the gaming market I immediately knew what camp I will be in!
I hate the way blame is placed on the gaming community when it was the companies that fed the arguments with their idiotic practices!

GenuineGamer929d ago (Edited 929d ago )

@helterskelter

You are entitled to your opinion and i will respect it so please don't take this as me attacking you.

I completely agree MS made some missteps, however this was a long time ago. We are half way towards 2016 and a lot has changed in the past couple of years.

MS have reshuffled their company, new people are in charge, new teams involved and better company policies.

Sometimes you need to fail in life. So you can learn from your mistakes and have the opportunity to come back stronger than before. I feel this is what Microsoft have done.

Also the console has evolved a lot since launch so a lot of peoples gripes with the system being slow and snap taking minutes to load is no longer the case.

So many people have a false image of what the console is but MS only have themselves to blame for releasing a product in such a state. Nothing is perfect though. Always room for improvement so its great MS do monthly updates.

Also i understand that its just not some peoples cup of tea, so that's fine. Everyone is different and we should respect others preferences.

I'm a genuine gamer. I like and aim to own all platforms every gen, however i will admit i lean towards xbox as i think its better. And that's just how i feel, doesn't mean its better for you, but it is for me :)

@rainslacker

I agree its the same for xbox fans too. Yes, there are fanboys on all sides, however on this site the balance is leaning more to the sony camp. Its not a dig, just fact. Hey the console has sold 10mil more so its not exactly surprising lol. I don't think your a fanboy you come off pretty neutral from what ive seen of your comments.

Septic929d ago

Concern trolling and proper, well stated and constructive criticisms are two different things. When you start off your rant with 'MS tried to kill gaming ' and talk about 'xbox cultists ' then don't expect to be taken seriously because, you dont deserve to be.

You seem to live in some parallel universe where criticisms against the Xbox can't be levied when in actual fact, it is the console under the most scrutiny.

Why did you bring up the topic here? Its hardly a good applicable example to the topic. So yeah, excuse me for not taking your concerns seriously.

helterskelter929d ago (Edited 929d ago )

As Spectic has demonstrated once again one cannot criticize or offend the xbone community or you end up on the receiving end of vitriol and accusations of fanyboism!

The facts are the Microsoft near destroyed gaming for many people with their paywalls and DRM! If we all forget that fact then it is destined to repeat!

I loved my 360 but what microsoft tried to do to my favorite pastime is very hard to forget!
I only brought up this topic as the console makers share as much of the burden for how the community behaves with their action as we do!

And Septic try to keep you accusations of trolling to yourself before trying to label gamers like me whom want to share their opinion! That is just a typical xbone apologist tactic that is very common on this site!

Imalwaysright929d ago

@ helterskelter

Spare us from your victim act. If you're gonna sit there judging other people don't come crying when others do the same to you. Also you "joined yesterday" and after reading your comments, your agenda is evident. The only person that you're managing to fool is yourself.

Dee_91928d ago (Edited 928d ago )

@helterskelter
"As Spectic has demonstrated once again one cannot criticize or offend the xbone community or you end up on the receiving end of vitriol and accusations of fanyboism! "

http://n4g.com/news/1734091...

I mocked the hell out of Xone in that comment in a Xbox article, I got a well said.. So what you've said is a lie!

The reality is, if you say something that an idiot doesn't agree with, you're gonna get "vitriol and accusations of fanyboism! " regardless of the console you're critiquing because thats the idiot gamer's scapegoat..
You may not be aware but you are doing exactly what you claim other to be doing..

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 928d ago
Bundi929d ago

Allow me to translate : I got a lot of hits and I'd like some follow up hits please so here goes nothing.

MrDead929d ago

While I may not agree with everything in this article you can at least see that the writer’s work is well thought out and they have coherent argument and a genuine concern for the subject.

I would happily see more articles like this, something that might spark a debate instead of the endless flame opinion pieces that get spammed on N4G by poor approvers every moment of the day that only serve to generate add revenue for lazy sites that don't have any journalistic integrity and steal from other peoples work so they can miss quote or just make stuff up to rile people and make the gaming community look like the equivalent of a nursery school playground.

Apollosupreme929d ago

Speaking to the original comment, there are also people who just like to stir the $#!+. They say things to get a rise. Don't forget those people too.

The gaming community is fine. Some people are too sensitive though.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 928d ago
Snookies12929d ago (Edited 929d ago )

Just a heads up for any future articles you put out there... This is the internet, you're going to encounter far more immature people because of anonymity. The sensible, majority of gamers will simply read the article and move on, while the trolls do what they do best. It's how it goes. Pointing it out only makes those who caused issues happier.

kartanym929d ago

I don't accept that. Of course it's the internet, but this doesn't have to be the norm. If people are actually pulled up for their stupidity, just as in the 'real world', it might make a difference. We seem to think that because it's the internet, the same rules don't apply. That should never be the case. It's life, regardless, so I'm going to say things like this.

Snookies12929d ago (Edited 929d ago )

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you can't change idiocy. If people are going to act stupid, you can't change that. Accept it, take the higher ground, and strive to show you're better than all that. You have to choose which people to listen to, and which to ignore. Unfortunately, the internet doesn't come with a setting to disable stupid.

kartanym929d ago

I respect your comments, Snookies12, and thank you for the feedback. I know I can't change idiocy, but if life has taught me anything, ignoring them isn't a solution. Education can be.

Godmars290929d ago

Thing is its not the norm. Its a few people who have an issue that other people report on and exacerbate said issue, insist that its only a larger problem that it is, in the public view.

00929d ago

This is what happens when people can't separate their personal life from the internet, social media is making people retarded and entitled that everyone most have the same opinion as them. This has nothing to do with gamers but internet culture as a whole, some people just can't deal with it.

plmkoh929d ago

I'm more worried about those who worry about internet comments.

bmwfanatic929d ago

It's called freedom of expression. Just because you dont agree with what they post it is their right to say
what they want.

kartanym929d ago

Be that as it may, ridiculing and defaming is something we can all agree isn't the right course of action.

Losso-Oso928d ago (Edited 928d ago )

So what is the right course of action? Over analyzing everything and turning everything we say into a "micro-aggression"?

Is the Orwellian nightmare the right course of action? Do we monitor people's thoughts, activities, trends, speech and so on?

Do we develop ways of programming people so they fit into a particular mold? And if we do, who gets to decide what that mold is? Who gets to decide what is wrong or right?

Who watches the watchmen/watchwomen? Freedom of speech doesn't protect the speech we like, or we agree with, freedom of speech protects the exact opposite.

We are turning into a society that in pursuit of "fairness", we have become overly sensitive, and quick to judge instead of a society that discusses, debates, considers and adapts.

People are quick to throw out hateful, damaging speech if it means that the person who may have disagreed with you for whatever reason, will bow before societal pressure and concede, instead of you actually having to defend an ideal or view point beyond the usual "I'm right just trust me" or "check your privilege" bs.

We know how to deal with trolls, just ignore them, they are seeking attention and if we just ignore them or don't acknowledge them, they will go away.

But that is no longer a good enough solution. We are now preoccupied with how to change them, make them better, or better described as indoctrinating them into fitting some one's mold of acceptable discourse or attitude. To make people complacent, so they offer no resistance in accepting whatever or whoever's idea of "better" is.

As a minority myself, I thought the point of the struggle of my forefathers was to get to the point were we don't see color, gender, race, creed and so on and so on, where we judge people by the content of their character, but now that's not good enough either.

Where does it end? How far are we willing to go to create this more "fair" world? Are we going to end like in the show firefly? Are we going to create monsters in order to make people "better"? And again, who's mold are we using as the definition of better?

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