According to Magicka 2 devs, DX12 will be a big improvement over DX11 ushering games in the next generation of graphics along with Vulkan, which might be even better.
It is good to hear, the details on DX12 do make it sound like it should be a massive improvement.
I seriously can't wait for the first games to be released. It's like magic in a way, free performance!
lol no it's not like magic.
I compare it to the old feeling of a new console launching in my youth. In PC gaming we dont usually experience large computing jumps like DX12 will bring. Launching VR with DX12 games will also be amazing. I fell that psychological complications from VR withdrawal will be a huge social phenomenon in 10 or so years.
Awe, you guys must of forgot all about the DX10 hype.
"Vulkan Might Be Even Better" probably in Cross-Platform Game Performance, eg Mobile Phone. DX12 is close-to-metal on XboxOne-Spec x86 computers.
"DX12 A Big Improvement Over DX11; Vulkan Might Be Even Better" I don't really care which one turns out to be better, i just like to see the improvements and support in games.
I've been working with DX12 the past 6 months or so, and before that I worked primarily with OpenGL, and DX12 is definitely a huge step up. The development pipeline is so much simpler than before, and the ability to natively implement multi-threading without third party tools(or custom built ones) is extremely welcome. The new shader processes is outstanding and removes a lot of the work that I would have done before. I'm also happy MS is going to be releasing DX12 with a free version of windows instead of forcing some sort of upgrade like before. This is getting the development community on board big time, and a lot of developers are liking the new features. I've yet to work with Vulkan, but have dabbled in Mantle. I hear nothing but good things about Vulkan, and if I had the time, I'd probably try to see what I could do there in my spare time.
Be sure to make some time dude and share your thoughts with us again. I'm definitely interested in hearing an experienced take on these new API's and how they compare. EDIT: One question though, maybe you can answer, I've read that part of DX12's code is based on Mantle, after AMD provided MS with it (Apparently AMD bet on future compatibility with their drivers/hardware). Can you see the similarities, if any?
DX12 is MS answer to mantle. DX12 is actually more than just a graphics API, whereas Mantle is just a graphics API. The principals of Mantle are present within DX12, however MS did their own implementation of what Mantle provided. I'm not sure if anything was used directly from Mantle as I haven't worked with Mantle on that level to be able to see any duplicate code. It's quite possible some code is reused with permission, and there is always the chance that some things were created independently but would have very similar if not exact code, as when it comes to writing API's machine code compile time implementation, there are things that are just best done one way, or can only be done in one way. Implementation on the developer level is probably going to be about the same outside of syntax differences.
Yeah, can't wait till the PC finally getting those structural improvements consoles benefit from for ages already.
Its about freaking time right? I mean they had all of that hardware performance just sitting there all these years, I mean yeah PCis are designed for general use compute and Gaming is just one of its Use's it's just Now Nice to, Now get PC performance index up where they always knew it could be increased it just seemed to me always. Like you buy a PC GPU to put inside your PC and The CPU upgrade if you decided to do such..and yet you always knew that because of the OS be it Windows, Linux, Mac OS,Spark , Unix..etc You would always have that obstruction layer always in the way...at least now there is a real change in general Compute dynamics for PC Gaming now to have that closer to hardware performance levels now for those with or wanting to take advantage of making a Gaming PC without feeling like you have some left over performance just going to waste. Good Move by the Tech. Industry for gaming in quite a few years which was really needed for so many years.
Agreed. We'll see even better improvement when we get a motherboard that has a spot for a gpu chip and ram directly on the board. Thats when things get ultra interesting. Some time though, still waiting for ssd's to act as ram though the PCI-E slot. http://www.pcworld.com/arti... Virtual ram still works great with ssds though. @Joe- "You would always have that obstruction layer always in the way" Agreed and Agreed. Or the PCI-Express bridge having latency not seen with consoles sense the gpu is directly on the motherboard. This yields consoles a great amount of power that future PC's will likely be able to have once that becomes the norm. But yes, we need a OS with no bloat. " a Gaming PC without feeling like you have some left over performance just going to waste. " Agreed and agreed! Its why I go so heavy on many of my PC builds, ie 5TFLOPs etc, knowing that your losing a bit of performance based on just the over all nature of PC, means that you can't just see a PS4 or XONE and just go above that, you need to really, really DESTROY that spec lol. Don't get 8gigs, get 16gigs, don't get a 2TFLOP GPU, get a 4 or 5 etc. Until many changes come to PC gaming, the rule of thumb for me will always be go go above 2x the listed specs of consoles.....2x. ie XONE is 1.3tflop, performance of 2.6....go 5tflops lol (or a faster card that offers better performance, which ever gets the better gpu rating) But PC gaming still has a ways to go. Many companies I feel really need to start setting the trend.
I hope CD Projekt does a DX12 patch before DLC hits - need those extra frames!
Definitely hear you on that man, game is heavy - but it looks so good
It makes my PS4 stutter at times, can't imagine on PC...
I've heard a DX12 patch is in the works, but it is still a rumor. @ccgr It kind of sucks, as a console owner, that cdpr built the game around Nvidia cards, because a lot of the graphics effects don't work nearly as well on AMD hardware. Nvidia cards work much better at tesselation, for example. It's actually strange to me since CDPR was going for parity across all platforms.
AMD probably needs some driver fixes though I wouldn't really be too down about it.
Tessellation is a hardware feature. There are no software bottlenecks. Nvidia cards have better tessallators. What AMD drivers suck at, though, are draw calls.
I read on Anandtech that the AMD DX12 drivers were very good. I don't think drivers will hurt AMD going forward. But NVIDIA paying off people to purposely gimp AMD's architecture probably won't change until NVIDIA loses too much market share and can no longer afford to pay people off.
Lol extra frames? The API makes it EASIER for programmers to program, it does not givw it any power boost at all. You cant change hardware. But whatever
LEL The API have less bloat so less overhead. The API ACTUALLY utilizes CPU's with multiple cores and multiple threading. Currently GPU's can only do one task at a time. With the new API you can do a lot more parallel. Hardware doesn't change, but that does not mean software has zero impact. "The API makes it EASIER for programmers" It's actually more "hardcore" then ever.
I'm not a expert tech guy and I just read on stuff like the next person but... http://www.extremetech.com/... "The exact same demo under DirectX 12 consumed 50% less power than the DirectX 11 version. In a similar demo, the higher efficiency and lower overheads of DX12 allowed for a 60% increase in frame rate over DX11 while consuming the same amount of power." "In the images below, with the benchmark in “unlocked” mode, you can see how switching between DirectX 11 and 12 affects the frame rate. DX11 manages 19 fps, while DX12 is more than 60% faster at 33 fps — at the same power consumption." http://www.pcworld.com/arti... "Microsoft execs expect frame rates to more than double when comparing DX12 to the current DX11 API."
Welcome to this edition of One Bubble Rants.
I'm guessing you haven't read anything at all on DirectX 12, have you? You can't change hardware, but you CAN change software and get more out of the hardware, which is exactly what's happening in this case.
That would be awesome.
I'm not ready to go windows 7 yet. So I hope gamedevs will consider vulkan as well.
Vulkan will be supported, just not nearly as quickly as DX12, as DX12 is built into Win10. When dev's want to transfer to Linux and OSX, them would likely support Vulkan. Vulkan itself may take a while (may be another year to finish).
Eh I meant not ready to go windows 10. lol That's why i hope devs will have vulkan support. With the new shader compiler they can probably convert DX12 shaders to Vulkan shaders.
i want to see it first, after dx10 i never believe anything they say.
So people who buy a xbox one when dx12 and win10 is relaesed will be buying a better console with better software at a cheaper price than someone who bought one for £150 more during launch. On a lighter note im looking forward to seeing these dx12 games running on my xbox, still looking for that killer app, that wow total nxt gen experience.
When has this not been the case for launch hardware?
Yeah you are right, but we are only one year in, kinda sucks cos I bought my xbox one at lauch, so someone walking into a shop tommorow and picking up the same console for alot cheaper with more functions does upset me in a way but there is nothing I can do but enjoy the updates and whats yet to come.
And people who just ordered cable today can watch movies as part of their package that you paid to watch at a theater a couple of months ago. For over year they have not had the privilege of enjoying games that we have.
I'm not sure I understand what you're upset about. Your XB1 will be the exact same, performance-wise, as any other XB1 sold later because of updates. You simply paid more to get the system earlier which is normal.
Forgive my ignorance but what is "Vulcan?"
It's an update to OpenGL which replaced AMD's mantle. Vulkan has the same features as Mantle, but has more input from a wider range of open source developers. Basically, Vulkan is to OpenGL as DX12 is to DX11 or lower.
Correct, but not only does it replace Mantle Vulkan completely replaces OpenGL because it was built from the ground up....It is a completely new Api. Built from scratch. Though any hardware that Supports OpenGL 3.1 is already Vulkan Compliant.
@rainslacker So does that apply to PS4 or no?
Not directly. Much of what Mantle and DX12 do on a graphics API level are already implemented in consoles. It's possible with the new pipelines that some improvements could be made, but without knowing the diffrerences between what Mantle or VUlkan are going to do compared to what's being done now I can't speculate on how much improvement there would be. Sony is part of the group that is backing Vulkan, and I wouldn't doubt that some improvements come from it, but only time will tell what they may be.
When they stop supporting win7/win8.1 i will move to linux. I hope that Valve will keep on supporting OpenGL development.
You are aware the cost to upgrade to Windows 10 will be free, right? I kind of get the hesitation on upgrading from Windows 7, but it makes no sense to not want the free upgrade from 8.1.
First year is free
Several sources have already shot down the idea that Vulkan might be better. The closest this is to "true" is that in some very controlled and specific cases Vulkan MIGHT perform a tad better, but overall it's not. ....admittedly I am not a Dev, I'm just basing this on what I have read by people that actually DO know what they are talking about.
Just curious, who are these people you talk of? Could you also link me to there pages.
@PistolsAtDawn You my friend is completely blowing crap out of your freaking colon....trying to Imply with what you just stated. Which is 100 percent Bull$hit by the way..sources? You say..LMAO in no "certain" cases or is very limited...the fact is Vulkan and DirectX 12 have pretty much the exact same freaking things included inside their Api' The [email protected] lower to the Metal Api is or was Mantle being direct start of Vulkan , and Vulkan replaces Mantle. You may have heard a Source, but that source and other are talking compile Load of Horse $hit. DirectX12 = Vulkan = DirectX 12 they pretty much do the exact same [email protected] Thing and since both are not yet finished its completely freaking Moot anyway. @ SniperControl 100% exactly, that is what I am waiting for, where are these so called sources, about the performance index of the Vulkan Api vs DirectX12 and the benchmarks with included engine's to show the performance index with using multiple game engines with the Api' LMAO..
On PC yes, but not on xbone.
«OpenGL Vulkan might even be better than DX12». Noooo. How can this be?? When on earth have Opengl been better or more flexible then DX. Its impossible. Lol. just kidding. Lets see if vulkan news star everyday like the DX12. Lol.
Brace yourself Adam Jensen is coming with augmented dx 12.
I'm so tired of hearing about Direct X 12. Give it a rest, please.
Why? We've heard relatively little of it so far, or so far have seen little of what it can do. This is a massive, massive deal in the industry. If you're sick of hearing about it, you should take up a new hobby.
It's really quite easy to solve that problem about DX12 news and the physical and mental drain it has on you,..Don't read the article, and don't comment. In no time you will find your all fresh faced and full of get go energy to do good in the world.
What is Vulcan?
How come Nintendo can't use mantle or vulkan?
For those of you assuming Sony will use Vulkan, well, they won't. It's already been stated that it would be a pain in the ass to switch from their current api.
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