Jim Sterling: I sometimes think Steam's menagerie of messed up games can't shock me anymore, and then genuine hate speech finds its way onto Greenlight.
Why do people like this need to learn to code? I'm kinda scared for the future #_#
Almost anyone can learn to code. I would not be scared for the future of gaming if I were you, every community has a bad apple.
@TheCommentator No, this game is harmful and should not be tolerated. The manbabies who made this at Skaldic games should get the community backlash they deserve and see their company crumble along with all of their future projects. Ignoring problematic things is not enough. You gotta take action against it.
@Timesplitter14, I agree with you, as long as we agree. It's when your idea of what is "allowable" starts to infringe on what I consider a basic right that we're going to have a problem. I'm thankful that we live in a country with freedom of expression, even though I don't agree with a vast majority of the expression I see. Sure, we get crap like this that makes us angry, but knowing that we can go against the status quo if need be is a necessary component of freedom. "Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing." George Orwell, 1984
Freedom of speech gives them the right to make a game like this, but it also gives people the right to react as negatively as they want. It's a self-moderating system. Also, anything that enters the realm of bigotry shouldn't fit in the "basic rights" category. We're in 2015 and it's time to get rid of this cancer
Don't get me wrong. I hate this kind of thing as much as you do. But just remember that the second you take away someone's right to be a bigot is the same second you give up your right not to be. As an atheist, I shudder every time the religious majority makes an attempt to legislate their religion. And there are small steps between these sorts of things.
Not only that, but the creators of this game appreciate the free publicity we are giving it by having it one of today's top stories.
inveni0, First of all this "giving up my right not to be a bigot" thing makes no damn sense at all. Second of all, they are free to try to tell me that I cannot criticize them because they will just dig themselves even further into their hole and the Earth will be rid of them sooner. We need to stop finding excuses for this kind of behaviour in the name of freedom of speech, and we need to stop our inaction towards this. Freedom of Speech only guarantees that you'll get to express your opinion in the first place, but it doesn't shield you from any negative reactions. I am sick beyond words of bigotry in the gaming community. Time to take a firm stand against it. If you're sick of journalists attacking the gaming community, prove them wrong. Otherwise you are proving them right
* I guess this game has a right to exist, but if you support it, you may need to take a good look in the mirror and re-evaluate how good of a person you really think you are. Has the right to be made......just don't see who would actually support that junk though.
@Timesplitter I don't agree with the topic of the game, but if we interfere with freedom of speech and ban it, then we end up banning everything. Do we ban Mortal Kombat because old people don't like it? How about porn? Should polygamy be illegal if all parties involved consent? We have a right to our opinions but not to interfere with the opinions of others. That's where fanboys are wrong when they jump into the topics of "the other side". It's the equivalent of a Jew going into a Muslim community and telling them how they are all wrong for their belief in Allah. It's not about the belief, but the confrontation that makes fanatacism wrong. Fanaticism is what laeds to violence. Tolerance is what leads to peace. BTW, it's interesting you should bring up bigotry. Morgan Freeman showed last week that we are all bigots by nature. I recommend watching the episode if you can.
Freedom of speech gives a person the right to say things without being arrested. I wouldn't have a problem if they pulled this game, it wouldn't encroach any legal right.
Sorry Commentator, But that is wrong. Censorship is immoral. You don't get to pick and choose what others want to read, write, play, and watch. That isn't how it works, no matter how justified you feel. I suggest reading some Voltaire for starters, follow that with Ray Bradbury's Coda. I'm not saying you need to agree with these folks, just get a notion of what you are claiming with your ideology of censorship and who gets to censor.
@thorstein What are you talking about? My whole post is against the notion of censorship. People are always entitled to their opinions, but should also be tolerant (and respectful) of others whose opinions differ from their own. Agree to disagree.
@Comment Sorry, I guess I meant to reply to the others. My mistake.
Not only intentionally offensive but looks like dog crap as well. At least Hatred was well made. #nodisrespecttopuppypoop
I have a hard time believing this game is made by a genuine homophobe and not a troll or someone trying to make a certain group look bad to "prove some kind of point". It's just too ridiculous and out there, something slapped together. When i read the title, i was expecting to be offended that some piece of crap would make a game like this, but after watching it, it's clearly a troll attempt that I'm hoping people will see through, because It's pretty freaking obvious. I hope this doesn't get much attention, not because it's supposedly hateful, but because if it is genuine homphobia/transphobia, it's the most lazy, half assed attempt at it I've ever seen, and doesn't even deserve to be controversial as an offensive game.
here's the creator's statement: http://skaldicgames.com/sta... Basically he made the game because he's tired of hearing about LGBT issues and he wants to piss off the LGBT community. In short, he's a dumbass
It would not surprise me one bit if this was not a "Straw man" scenario or if it was just a dumb ass- Either way it does not warrant attention
@timesplitter I'm gay, and I'm actually tired of the LGBT crap too. This is just stupid though lol.
^ THAT'S the creator's statement?!? Wow, I feel the same way he does. Guess I'm a cancer to society -_-
This is hilarious.
This is funny to me (not the game). Many people agreed that Hatred was "acceptable" and is okay to exist,but everyone needs to jump on the hate train for this game. Whatever... We'd all be better off if neither game existed anyways. We are all free to have our opinion, but this is so juvenile. No wonder this generation is riddled with so many school shootings. Yes, I do place at least a little blame on games like this for the degradation of our youth.
Censorship is telling a man he can't eat a steak because a baby can't chew it. -(attributed to) Mark Twain. I defended Hatred and I defend the creator of this game's right to make it. Just like with that shooting in Texas, I defend their right to draw cartoons of religious figures. This particular game may actually produce some discussions, because even some homophobes may look at this and say, "That's over the line." Which may help them reassess their own views.
Someone feels strongly about this subject. Its sad, but our laws work both ways. They protect the victims and the offenders equally.
But steam doesn't need to allow things like this, I personally don't think they should.
I agree with everything you said besides "it's sad". Ya this is mean but who decides what people can and can't say in America, Popular vote?
agreed, not sure if there is a point to the game other than to shock.
I don't oppose the publishing of this game just based on freedom of speech just like I wouldn't oppose a game about killing Christians, rednecks, Americans etc or Amy other specific group. Thankfully, the market seems to be smarter than that and won't be supporting this.
If there were a game about killing rednecks though.... ;D
When it comes to speech, "offender" and "victim" are 100% about perspective. So, yeah. This game has every right to exist. The world is a better place allowing it.
Carry on, they are just trying to be provocative to get attention. Don't give it any
This isn't the kind of attention that gets people interested in the developer. It's more like the kind that buries them. Something seems too blatantly wrong about all of this.
I'm willing to bet this is reverse psychology at play. More probable that a homosexual advocate created this to generate backlash against those that don't support or agree with the lifestyle.
Regardless of the true intentions ...its horrible. This is why I for one prefer a cur-rated content store. I don't need to see trash like this.
And you likely wouldn't have seen this if weren't pointed out to you that it exists. I'm sorry but, grow up. The existence of this clearly intentionally provocative game has as much impact on you as you let it, no more, no less.
There are many programs, including parental controls in your router you can set so that it keeps you safe
Remember that taking a shower with Daddy game. LOL. F**cking pathetic bro!
"The existence of this clearly intentionally provocative game has as much impact on you as you let it, no more, no less." THIS is why the media paints gamers in such a murderous light. You don't even realize you're playing right into the wrong hands if you refuse to take a stand against such oppotunistic man-children that send the right message to the wrong people. It's incompetence on both these developers and those believing that ignoring it is going to make it go away.
@DragonKnight grow up? Seriously that is your response? Why don't you relax a bit hoss. I find the message of the game reprehensible. Obviously its intentionally provocative that is clear as day. Whether its meant to raise awareness or a political statement against the gay community I find it offensive. I personally would prefer Steam actually use a small amount of sensorship but hey thats me. And you are wrong, the existence of crap like this may not be directly harmful but its impact individuals can indirectly be harmful as idiots take the message to heart and along with other crap they read and start to believe it and worse yet act on it. Once upon a time, the world thought Hitler would amount to nothing more than a political figure that would fade away and his messages were nothing to be worried about, until they were. Terrorist groups like ISIS spend countless hours spreading their words to others in the hopes of just getting one idiot to listen. That one idiot can be turned into a weapon and yes games like this can be used as propaganda to recruit. I know that sounds all conspiracy theory but you need look no further than the news to know its true. . And ... I have grown up just fine thank you.
"THIS is why the media paints gamers in such a murderous light. You don't even realize you're playing right into the wrong hands if you refuse to take a stand against such oppotunistic man-children that send the right message to the wrong people. It's incompetence on both these developers and those believing that ignoring it is going to make it go away." A) Remember who you're talking to. I've practically made it a career on this site fighting the SJW ridden media that infests this industry. B) You couldn't be more wrong if you tried, and that would be saying something because being wrong is an absolute condition. The media paints gamers in a murderous light because of professional victims who act like EVERYTHING is wrong save and except what they say is right. This game is purposely antagonistic, but has just as much right to exist as every Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, or Saint's Row game. This game specifically rewards killing homosexuals and you believe that that is a specific instance of hate. Ok, so why are games focusing on the Vietnam War in which you specifically kill Vietnamese allowed? That's not hate? What about both World War games in which you specifically kill Germans? Is it not hate because they're technically white? You don't get to have a double standard. If you're going to allow games in which specific groups are targeted and killed have a pass, you have to allow that for ALL games or else admit that you're a hypocrite and have the emotional fortitude of a dry sand castle, or a self-serving opportunist who manufactures outrage for financial gain. These games quite literally need to be ignored, buried under disinterest and obscurity. That's how their message will be undone, by not being heard in the first place. Not drawing attention to it through manufactured outrage and chosen offense. This game, like words, is only as powerful as you want it to be. It can affect you only if you let it. It is a work of fiction. Things don't have a tangible, physical existence can literally do nothing to harm you. How many people do you think would willingly admit, publicly and without anonymity, to buying and enjoying this game without having a history of being sociopaths already? None. Jim Sterling just caused a problem. A problem we're all going to get to hear about when the SJWs accuse Steam and gamers of being homophobic for drawing attention to this game. Something its creator WANTS. No. It's not us that cause the media to paint gamers in a murderous light. It's the SJWs with political agendas that do, we're left to clean up the mess.
@Dlacy13g: Sorry but you haven't. This proves it.. "And you are wrong, the existence of crap like this may not be directly harmful but its impact individuals can indirectly be harmful as idiots take the message to heart and along with other crap they read and start to believe it and worse yet act on it." Wrong. How many studies have to be done to show that media does not influence behaviour unless pre-existing behavioural problems already exist? You're a gamer, you should know this already. We've been through it with Jack Thompson, we're going through it with Anita Sarkeesian, and in both cases it's been proven that the axes they have to grind are petty and non-factual. The existence of this game will not cause rampant homosexual murders. It won't cause people to hate homosexuals more than they already do. And your Hitler example is incredibly ignorant, as is your ISIS example. You oversimplify in such a big way that you ignore the real factors involved.
@DragonKnight I can't (nor can anyone) stop games from being made. Anyone can make a game. And I agree with you 100% that these games should be ignored. I think we disagree with the fact that these companies with game store fronts shouldn't exert their own amount of control on what they allow on their stores. Steam not putting games like this or Hate in its store would effectively be Steam choosing to ignore these games. The game would still exist but it wouldn't be getting highlighted on Steam Greenlight. Your comment about "if we allow some games to have shooting and killing then we have to allow all games that have shooting and killing to be in the store" is just false. Steam doesn't have to do anything of the kind. They can choose to put whatever games they wish to have in Steam. They are a private company and have no such mandates put on them by outside forces. They currently choose to allow anything...I wish they would not as I think there are lines to draw in the sand at some point...even if such lines would be considered hypocritical by others. And yes, I over simplified the Hitler and Isis examples because in this setting going deep dive into those topics probably isn't exactly appropriate. I know there is a large gap between this game and those topics but its the message of hate that is the underlying topic that is the bond and worry imo. Anyway, you can sling your insults about 'growing up' all you want. I know where I am at in life and more than happy with my growth. I trust you are as well. We just have very different opinions on this topic and that is ok too.
@Dlacy13g: I'm saying that Steam, nor any store for that matter, should be made to be responsible for coddling people's feelings. What the hell happened to the world where we decided to remove personal responsibility for our own feelings and instead expect corporations and governments to govern and control exposure so as to remove said personal responsibility and protect "the feels" of people who are likely being disingenuous about their feelings anyway? It's the same nonsense that has just seen my provincial government banning the use of e-cigarettes. There was no legitimate reason for doing this other than A) To shut up people who are ignorant and whining or B) To set up a situation in which e-cigarettes are taxed as regular ones are for the benefit of the government. It's likely both. I don't even smoke and think it's stupid to ban a device that essentially just creates water vapor. Some idiot made a game in which the victory condition is to kill homosexuals. So what? Let him. Let him waste his time and try to sell it. He won't be successful because anyone that sees the game will clearly see him for the idiot that he is. He shouldn't be censored for it. It is a huge double standard to allow one form of discriminatory killing, even build whole genres around it, and yet then go on a tirade about another form. Race is no more a choice than sexual orientation and yet killing billions of white people was never seen as hate when it was done in shooters. Nor was it seen as hate to do so with Vietnamese, Chinese, etc.. in other games where you indiscriminately slaughter those people. Yet now that a game is made specifically to kill homosexuals, suddenly it's not right to kill people in a game based on something that wasn't their choice and it needs to be banned? Why? Because fictional, non-existent people now equates to real, flesh and blood people? But only when they are gay? Hell, this kind of double standard existed even with RE5 when that game was accused of being racist for killing black people, but it's again ok to indiscriminately kill any member of the Communist party in games, no matter their race? Free expression is not meant to be a pleasant thing. It exists in fact to be unpleasant without the repercussion of prison for said expression. Even that is changing now. Be careful about what you wish for. When you demand that companies and government take more proactive actions in censoring subjectively offensive material, you get closer to granting them the right to censor you.
Wow. You guys are making me agree with Dragonknight! Thanks. ;D It's too bad that you guys don't understand the censorship is far more evil than some stupid game with a real terrible name. Guess what, there are musical groups that you've never heard of that are far more "offensive." And you know what? Censoring them is incredibly evil. Perhaps you should educate yourselves on the history of censorship and compare your SJW responses with those who burned books throughout history. Many of those that burned books, burned other things as well: witches, crosses, black people, jews, christians, muslims.... (the list is endless.)
My thought exactly!
LOL, love it! Talk about fighting fire with fire. Now if some studio would do something like this for primetime TV, I would support it. #goindown4real
Why is it okay to kill strait people and not gay people? i'm going to go riot now bbl guys.
Doesn't matter one way or the other. This game looks boring.
The game looks like garbage regardless of what it's trying to do.
Some people may vote for it, in the sense that it carries some sort of sick disgusting/twisted humor that they may deem harmless, we will see it in the comment section: "oh this is just for fun, harmless, it doesn't affect anyone..." I guess more than anything, we need empathy and a sense of compassion, no one wants to be targeted for their race, ethnicity, creed, sexual orientation, gender identity. We already have enough atrocities happening in the world that it doesn't need to permeate into our games/hobbies. Like the earlier poster said, blame the developers and his sick agenda, not the gaming aspect.
Now let's see those who defended Hatred defend this as well.
They are completely different beasts. Hatred is a game about killing people which has been in video games almost forever. This is just pure hate speech with no merit or substance. Hatred at least looks like it could be fun and personally, I think it looks almost satirical. I laugh at each Hatred trailer that comes out because it's so ridiculously edgy.
Everything you said about Hatred could apply to this game as well if you just replace misanthropy with homophobia. Both games have no merit or substance and are ultimately just there to garner controversy.
I refuse to be hypocritical on the subject. This game has a right to be made, but I don't see any difference between this and Hatred. They both are trolling for publicity and add nothing creative to the gaming community, just childish humor.
I would think this falls under the same "freedom of expression" category as Hatred does and thus has the same defense. I mean, I wonder what would happen if someone made a game celebrating being white.
Every game has the right right to be be defended... just not necessarily supported, two different things, I support Hatred but not this... do I want this to be censored? Never.
Unlike hatred, this will likely get pulled from and stay off of Steam. Hatred isn't really a targeted hate game. The PR from Gabe letting this particular game off the hook would be hilariously bad in comparison to Hatred. XD
Censorship is far more evil than this stupid game. How's that? Care to compare censorship through the ages to this crap game that may sell about 4 copies?
He killed two straight people in the video, but it shows 0 on the scoreboard.
the steam edgy train is still going!
Homophobes are just hidden homosexuals.
killing straight people must be okay because they are majority.
That makes no sense. Nobody would have a problem with "kill everyone", but if a gay dev made "kill the heterosexuals!" people would have questions with that too.
WOW... I made better flash games when I was 10...
This is gonna cause a hell of a racket.
This is sure to be offensive. But to all the people whom share crude humor, you can't say this didn't get a Chuckle or two outa you. Its obviously blatant to stir contraversy, perhaps the dev aims to generate buzz regardless good or bad amid how gta stirred buzz in almost every iteration.
That was funny, I downloaded it.
The best way to fight free speech is to intentionally abuse it. Don't give this game any money, or attention, as it seems quite clear that no matter what the devs are trying to do, it is not positive.
There is always an interesting line to be drawn when deciding how to expressly deal with something like this. On one hand, the community is well within its rights to denounced such deplorable content. On the other, there is the free speech aspect of game developers being able to create content however they see fit.