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Wardell Explains Microsoft's Silence Regarding Xbox One DX12 Benchmarks

Brad Wardell also comments on whether Ashes of the Singularity will launch on PS4 and Xbox One.

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lifeisgamesok964d ago

We shall find out what DX12 can do when games like Gears of War 4 are shown this year :)

Genuine-User964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

I hope people don't expect a radical shift in how games perform on the Xbox One.
That said, Gears of War and Halo 5 will most definitely impress.

deadpoolio316964d ago

Clearly they do have major expectations, and they are just going to ignore the facts, and when it doesn't have that big of an effect on the Xbox some might start going on about MS lying even though they have always maintained it wont do that much for the Xbox one

Nirvana31591964d ago

You can't fix a weak ass hardware with software updates. I bought an Xbox recently and I've been regretting it

Docknoss964d ago

I think MS is waiting to reveal it's games at E3 that use DX12. Instead of boasting about bench marks. Seems like a good way to blow everyone away.

AngelicIceDiamond964d ago

@Rocket "None of the xbone fanatics will ever accuse Microsoft of lying when DX12 doesn't show much improvement."

So I'm guessing you've seen how much impact it has? If you have please share with us. Did you read his statement he said its all in theory.

The DX12 in X1 is real. But a real world presentation hasn't been shown off because they have nothing to compare it to and its up in the air.

Would it be foolish for them to start showing off prototypes of what they want to achieve only to turn out it its nothing like what they "showed off"

Now That's a lie. They haven't lied about anything about DX12 considering they haven't shown anything off on X1.

I think its great MS is holding off on the X1 version of DX12. Until they have something absolutely concrete.

"They are so loyal."

same could be said about Sony fan boys how is that any different?

Bdub2000964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

@Nirvana, another PS4 troll pretending to own an X1 so he can stealth troll even more... Your agenda is weak bro. Your comment history and perception of the X1 is so completely wrong there's no possible way you've actually played on one.

But, I don't disagree with the statement that DX12 can't imrpove the GPU. it can make it more efficient, theoretically. I don't expect much change if any, but any improvement is welcomed.

"They are so loyal"....
OMG, I can't believe a die hard Ps4 troll just said that. SMH. Clearly, no one with any real insight is claiming huge changes from DX12, so there's nothing "to be loyal" about if it doesn't do much. Actually, I kind of read Brads statement in this artical to sound like someone at MS told him to stop talking it up.

And why do so many PS4 guys troll DX12 articals, it's like you're praying for it to fail like it has anything to do with you, or like it's your agenda to curb X1 owners expectations. Get a life.

Kingthrash360964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

@angelic
I don't think they've lied either. They were clear when they said Dx12 wouldn't be a huge impact on xb1. Anyone who thinks it will after that statement made by the xbox boss himself is just blind or just want something to argue about. If it were to make a decent difference I'm sure they would have said so. Because it would sell more consoles. They didn't ..it's not going to be huge for xb1. It'll help but it's not going to do anything huge....pc however will be a differnt story. Doesn't mean xb1 is a bad console it just means it will never be as powerful as the ps4...Neither will the wiiu. All 3 consoles WILL have awsome games to play...and that my friends is what matters most.

uptownsoul964d ago

Brad Wardell has NEVER spoke about any benefits of Dx12 on XB1…

"No one knows how much benefit Xbo will get from dx12. I can only speak about the pc bc we have dx12 titles in development." -- Wardell's tweet from March 25, 2015

http://imgur.com/VH2ffxl

AngelicIceDiamond964d ago

@King Yeah, I'm aware of all that.

"Doesn't mean xb1 is a bad console it just means it will never be as powerful as the ps4...Neither will the wiiu."

Well, that was never my concern the power of the onsoles are what they are and I'm fine with that.

Its just that @Rocket is jumping to conclusions based off of nothing.

@Disagrees Hey I got major disagrees even though I said nothing that warrants it, Is this a Xbox or PlayStation related topic? Hard to tell sometimes.

Disagree away I'm right and this sites wrong anyway.

Geoff900964d ago

You won't get a massive bump in imagine quality, however I would expect better framerates, perhaps better resolution.

Most developers haven't had a lot of time on DX12, and I suspect that most games next year will be utilizing it, with varying results.

Halo2ODST2964d ago

If they do impress it will only be graphical fidelity, smh, which is ashame, because making things look pretty doesn't make the game better any more enjoyable only better to look at. :(

alabtrosMyster964d ago

@RocketScienceLvlStuf

Spencer was pretty reasonable in the expectations he has set in therms of performance "boost" that people could expect out of DX12 on the XB1 (very little, in some cases nothing... some very specific, rare, cases dramatic).

This is because a lot of the features are already in its DX11 implementation... oh well, let them dream a little longer, it's as if the PS4 crowd would expect it to out-pace a top of the line PC whenever Sony release firmware 3.0, that stuff has no basis in reality.

Cueil964d ago

3rd generation titles are generally when Hardware starts to hit it's strides

OldDude964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

@alabtrosmyster

The PS4 will never outpace a top of the line PC obviously, so I agree with you. The reason? It cant even outpace a decent mid-level PC so how on earth could it outpace an actual good one.

Cracks me up people on here acting like the 2nd coming is happening because something comes in at 1080p/30... that was 5 years ago on a decent PC.

Neither the PS4 or the X1 could be called powerful by anyone with a brain. Enjoy them for what they are.

raymantalk1964d ago

@OldDude

i agree with you the ps4 cannot compete with a high end pc since the pc is always getting better and better where as a ps4 has the same hardware it had since launch, but forgetting how powerful the pc is where is the games to go with all that power, i dont see them yes there is loads of fps shooters ect ect ect but where is the games like THE LAST OF US, LITTLE BIG PLANET, UNCHARTED and many many other titles that you can only get on a console, i have not put any xbox1 games in here because most of them end up on pc that is why i only stated sony exclusives before you say i am a sony fanboy.

PistolsAtDawn964d ago

Expecting a radical shift is a bad idea, but at the same time....X1 doesn't NEED a radical shift at all. That being said, as long as DX12 makes game development easier, esp using tiled resources and taking advantage of eSRAM to it's full potential...we should see some awesome improvements. Most people get caught up in the numbers here (on both sides) which as far as X1/DX12 isn't where we should be looking. Right now PS4 is easier to develop for...time and money are king...so games typically get developed with that in mind, which often doesn't fit X1's architecture. People saying X1 CAN'T do 1080p are clearly missing the point...so if DX12 makes devs willing to take the time to build games designed specifically for X1 and using all the resources are easy to take advantage of, we should be golden.

Kal0psia964d ago

Nearly everyone are basing these "improvements" based off of major hardware performance, when the benefits on XOne has more to do with developer implementations specifically exclusive rendering featuers. That is why Phil Spencer say it's NOT going to have a impact on XOne (Performance wise), but it will provide unique rendering techniques that for now only first party games will more likely utilize it. Also, going by the SDK leak these rendering features were nothing but demos and hasn't been fully implemented in Dx11.x versions.

So no doubt will see some great games from first party, visually and in scale.

Outthink_The_Room964d ago

@deadpoolio

I'm curious why PCs that use APUs, Laptops, Phones and Tablets will ALL see a big benefit with DX12, but for some reason, the XB1 won't.

What I also find curious, is why every APU in a PC, Laptop, Phone and Tablet, will ALL see a major increase, but for some reason, the APU in the XB1 won't see any benefit.

It's kind of amazing how EVERY OTHER DEVICE IN THE WORLD, will see a benefit. But the XB1? Apparently not.

.....and you don't think that's odd?

UltraNova964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

@Outthink_The_Room

Because the XB1's API is already close to metal (efficient multi-core communication to the GPU), a previously console only privilege (due to fixed hardware and significantly less software overhead),one that Mantle (credit for being the 1st out is due), DX12, and Valkan APIs aim to bring to the PC scene.

With that said, I do not agree with those who say it wont benefit the xb1 at all. It will but the benefits will not be of such high magnitude that some are misguidedly hoping for.

kraenk12963d ago (Edited 963d ago )

^^What UltraNova said.

+ Show (17) more repliesLast reply 963d ago
lelo2play964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

DX12's advantages will mostly be seen in the PC market, namely on recent and future graphic cards, not so much on the X1... I think.

If people expect all future X1 games to be 1080p/60fps due to DX12, they are going to be disappointed.

headblackman964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

it baffles me to hear people talk like this about dx12 when it comes to pc and x1 and i'll explain why.

these consoles are exactly like the pc when it comes to the architecture. the only difference is that the consoles hardware is static (meaning it can't be changed out for upgraded hardware). (so with that said, dx12 will work just fine as it's being touted.)

it's already been stated that specific brands of chipsets will receive different percentages when it comes to their dx12 interactive performances and amd will receive the highest performance boost (last time i checked amd made apu in the x1 with dx12 in mind) so that same amd percentage should work on the x1. now this doesn't mean that the x1 will outperform the pc, just means that the both will get the same percentage increase. like for example (2 dollars times 70% vs 8 dollars times 70%. the percentage is the same but the money would be higher with the 8 dollars times the 70%. the dollars represents the hardware performance on it's own and the percentage represents the dx12 enhancements for amd.

when brad speaks about the pc, he's speaking about the x1 because he knows and understands and has already stated that these consoles are just like pc's now in regards to architecture. he's privy to info that we are not, but he can't say anything just like no other dev or microsoft employee can's ay anything because of the nda's that microsoft still has up. not because he doesn't know. but he's counting on the intelligence of the people to catch the hinted gems that he's dropping with his breakdowns and explanations of the pc's interactions with dx12 (because they are the same now!

and here's another flippy thing to me. some individuals will knock the dx12 claims and go right into saying that the ps4 will create an api that can do something equivalent or higher(with the remarks of you think sony will just sit around and do nothing). so if sony (who's not a very good software company) can do it, then why cant microsoft (who's one of the best if not the best software company)?

uptownsoul964d ago

@headblackman

"when brad speaks about the pc, he's speaking about the x1 because he knows and understands and has already stated that these consoles are just like pc's now in regards to architecture." -- WRONG: Brad Wardell's direct tweets on March 25th: "I think where it gets murk is that console fans think the Dx12 boosts equally apply to the XBO. But that is not the case" AND "At the end of the day, dx12 does help XBO. But no one can say how much yet"

Source: http://imgur.com/OQkByrQ

angelusbrz964d ago

seeing how many people disagree with you shows how much casual gamers are misinformed this days.

thanks to fanboy war, DX12 will achieve nothing on Xbox One, if you think otherwise, you gonna be disappointed pretty soon.

IGiveHugs2NakedWomen964d ago

@headblackman

"these consoles are exactly like the pc when it comes to the architecture. the only difference is that the consoles hardware is static."

No consoles are not like PC's. Both the PS4 and Xbox One have custom APU's that are based on AMD's Jaguar architecture. These consoles are closer in performance to laptops than PC's. That's just for clarification.

OpenGL964d ago

@ headblackman

The reason DirectX 12 won't have the same impact on Xbox One as it will on PC is that the Xbox One launched with a low-level API similar to the PS4's GNM API, and developers can already use it today if they want to.

That's not to say this won't make porting games easier for the Xbox One, but the system already came with an API that was more efficient than DirectX 11 on day 1.

fiveby9964d ago

@headblackman so you state "so if sony (who's not a very good software company) can do it, then why cant microsoft (who's one of the best if not the best software company)" How is it that Sony is not a good software company?

What do you base that on? Your considered opinion? That is a completely subjective comment. MS is the best software company? Really? Can we not list the many numerous awful iterations of the OS which have been released or other products? They are not terrible but the best or nearly the best? Please. Stating what you 'believe' to be the truth does not make it so.

rainslacker964d ago

@headblackman

Just because the consoles have an x86 architecture, that does not mean that they are exactly like PC's. Far from it in fact. The x86 architecture just allows for easier programming when it comes to the assembly code that is used in consoles, because it is better documented and used by programmers as they learn to do these things. Other architectures require that they learn new assembly instructions on hardware that may not be as well documented, and often other processors are more complex with their assembly instructions, which allows for more to be done, but can make it harder to implement.

The truth is, outside the CPU, there is very little in common with how programming is done on the PC. On a PC, programming is done with high level API's, or frameworks, to work within an operating system. Very rarely are these API's bypassed to have custom ones made that make things faster. On a PC, everything is handled with an interpreter by the OS. On a console, the code is written to the hardware. On a console, there is specific hardware in place on the different consoles to handle different things. ESRAM on the X1, sound co-processors, built in chips for compression codecs, etc. None of these things exist on a PC. Even the memory bus is completely different on consoles as compared to PC's, and they have different set ups, where the PC memory bus is handled by the OS, whereas the memory bus is handled by the memory controller directly on a console. Most importantly, the way that memory can be accessed and allocated is much more efficient on a console as opposed to a PC where neccessity requires the OS handle such operations.

DX12 won't help the above things on PC since the hardware doesn't exist to utilize the special setups that are used in consoles, but reportedly on the X1, it does open up some things which are currently unavailable to devs through the API. Those things will have a much bigger impact on PC due to the constraints the old DX put on the hardware.

jden28964d ago

@rainslacker Listen you sony guys can't have it both ways... flip flopping all over the place. One minute you say they're just like pc's so we can just compare their cpu & gpu and say one is more powerful than the other because they're both x86 hardware like a pc. Eventhough MS very early on said that you couldn't and listed the reasons why "ALL" the Sony world did it anyway. Now when headblackman points out hey if it's just like a PC then it will get the same improvements a PC will get you all Flip Flop saying they're not like PC's. Make up your freaking minds it can't be both ways. I for one believe the MS engineers when they said "the machines are closer performance wise than you know and if you think MS is going to give up a 30% power difference to Sony you're crazy". Now why do I say such ridiculous stuff well MS already told us how so i'll break it down. The gpu & cpu in these machines don't sit in a vacuum and do all the work on the consoles they're only part of the equation. Also anybody who has coded even a basic game understands that resource management is paramount to achieving your goals.

So what are you programming wen you program a game?
1) GFX
2) AI
3) I/O
4) Physics
5) Network code
6) Background data maintenance

All you've talked about is GFX
SO lets break down the total processing power of the entire console both PS4 & XONE

processor power PS4 XONE
cpu 102 GFLOPs 112
gpu 1.84 TFLOPS 1.31
co-processors (1) ~10 GFLOPSs (15) 400 GFLOPs
----------------------------- ------------------------
Total Processing Power 1.952 TFLOPs 182.2 TFLOPs

In truth there's less than a 7% difference in total processing power of the machines it's just spread out differently.

As far as the GFX are concerned we often forget that a game is made up of so much more... it all has to work.

What DX12 does for the XONE is allow it to use those co-processors and e-sram efficiently because you had to commit considerable time to get the MONO api to get things done and some features simply weren't present in it that will be in DX12

kraenk12963d ago (Edited 963d ago )

@headblackman

it is a bit sad to see how uninformed people on here are. Your information is severely lacking facts. As UltraNova said it before.."Because the XB1's API is already close to metal (efficient multi-core communication to the GPU), a previously console only privilege (due to fixed hardware and significantly less software overhead),one that Mantle (credit for being the 1st out is due), DX12, and Vulkan APIs aim to bring to the PC scene.

With that said, I do not agree with those who say it wont benefit the xb1 at all. It will but the benefits will not be of such high magnitude that some are misguidedly hoping for. "

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 963d ago
Multiplatguy964d ago

Don't get your hopes up, it might still be too early. We might only get a CGI trailer this year.. If that.

Elit3Nick964d ago

Agreed, I would be surprised if we see anything more than the reveal trailer, unless they plan on showing a making of video like what Bioware had for Mass Effect 4

gfk342964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

I agree.

We should not listen Brad as, in my opinion, tells only BS.

One year ago, Brad Wardell told us with respect to DX 12 that “Xbox One is the biggest beneficiary; it effectively gives every Xbox One owner a new GPU that is twice as fast as the old one".

(source http://bgr.com/2014/04/07/x...

In fact, from this statement all the crazy talk about DX12 and X1 started.

But NOW, he's telling us that he has no idea about the effects of DX12 on X1.

So, due to this guy and his daily statements, we had at least one article per day (for more than a year) with respect to the grandiose changes of DX12 on X1. All the people believed this guy and rejected Phil's statement that DX12 will not give big changes to X1.

So, as already mentioned on this site, Brad Wardell is a joke and we should all listen only from authorised persons, in this case Phil.

rainslacker964d ago

@gfk

I'm willing to give Wardell the benefit of the doubt as he may have believed it at the time a year or so ago.

But you are absolutely correct. The majority of the fanboy bickering over what DX12 will do for X1 can be linked directly back to Wardell.

Honestly, I don't even know why he's being asked why he feels that MS is being quiet on the subject. They haven't been quiet on it, they addressed it, and there are some people who just didn't like Phil's answer.

IMO, if Wardell feels that MS is being quiet on it for a reason, maybe he should be quiet on the subject as well.

That being said, the vast majority of his comments are about the PC, and they just get taken as applicable to the X1 by people who want to discuss such things. Much of this is because gamingbolt does have a tendency to imply that it is X1 related in their headlines, and some of it is due to people not distinguishing PC's DX12 and DX12 for the X1.

Here's some truth some may want to know.

DX11.2 on the X1 already implements a lot of features of DX12. Some noatable things are missing which should show some improvement for the X1 in theory(won't say for sure since I'm not privy to that information). The PC will show a vast improvement with DX12 in terms of graphics rendering pipelines, because apparently up until now, DX11- have been gimping the ability of GPU's to do their work(which no one seems pissed about after spending $400-500 on those fancy new GPU's and multi-core CPU's...but hey, all hail MS now right?) To be fair, OpenGL gimped modern CPU/GPU abilities as well. DX12 and whatever is next for OpenGL are a decade past due.

964d ago
3-4-5964d ago

DX12 is 99% for PC and most people understand that.

DX12 will benefit Microsoft's NEXT Xbox console more so than the XB1.

By then, they will understand how to use it more efficiently as well.

Don't let the trash media sucker you into this useless debate.

Artemidorus959d ago

DX12 will provide almost nothing to Gears of War. I can see the hype train heading for a large crash at the end of the year.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 959d ago
Septic964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

Deja vu again. Anyway, just before people get carried away, Wardell himself says:

"So it’s pretty easy for me to say yes you’ll get a huge impact on PC, but on the console it’s all a theory."

MS would be touting DX 12 and shouting about its powers from the rooftops if they were confident in it being a significant boost for the X1 but they aren't. Spencer has downplayed this for a reason.

MasterCornholio964d ago

"Spencer has downplayed this for a reason."

Yep he knows more about this than anyone. Even someone like Brad doesn't know as much about DX12 as Phil does. Some people say that it will make a massive impact on the XB1 but it reality it won't. People really shouldn't expect the system to double on power because no software update on a console is capable of doing that. Heck the same goes for the updates that the ice team makes for the PS4s API.

ThinkThink964d ago

Nobody said it would make a massive impact on xbox1. Will It make games look or preform a bit better, sure. But nobody expects a "massive" jump. You know that though, you just like to jump in and stir the pot.

deadpoolio316964d ago

No no, there are fanboys who are going to have their hearts broken because they think listening to morons like Mister X that its going to majorly effect the Xbox One and its going to be a massive game changer.....

Hope they're ready for heart break cause it wont, yeah it will make improvements not a change it becomes game changing

MasterCornholio964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

@Think

"But nobody expects a "massive" jump"

Only the fanatics do but thankfully they are a minority in N4G.

I dont doubt that it will help the XB1 like many are saying but I dont expect anything massive. I expect that PCs will benefit more from this more than the XB1. But thats mainly due to the fact that the XB1 already has many of the features that DX12 has. Something that's been stated multiple times by XB1 developers.

Anyways I was just agreeing with Septic with my initial comment.

P.S Again I believe the same with updates to any console. They will always help but they can't increase the power of the system.

Why o why964d ago

@Think..... many x1 guys want parity. ..however big or small the gap, many x1 guys hope dx will bring the x1 closer to the ps4 in terms of performance. Some go one step further and hope dx will help best the ps4. Truth is everybody wants improvements... Some people expect too much whilst others too little..ultimately time will tell so its best to wait and see instead of prophesying

alabtrosMyster964d ago

@ThinkThink

Common don't act stupid, ever since the xb1 was released some people (most not devs) have said it would be a game changer, like the cloud, titanfall, some secret sauce chip, etc.

I lost track of all these features that would suddenly make the xb1 viable competition to the PS4 performance wise... but everybody who has been around since the announcement has seen the spawns of misterXmedia in action all over the web.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 964d ago
Mega24964d ago

Still, the majority of DX12 info has been based on rumors. One of it's primary rumored feature that I'm really exited for is the Multi-GPU performance. Fingers crossed that microsoft delivers!

Septic964d ago

I'm not writing off anything but at the same time, I'm just being realistic. Anything extra on the X1 with DX12 will be a big bonus but I'm not expecting earth shattering differences.

rainslacker964d ago

There is plenty of info about what DX12 will and won't do in general out there, and it is good stuff for programmers. Most of it's for PC.

For the X1 stuff, I wouldn't even say it's rumors, but more speculation, or worse, wishful thinking. There are things someone with technical knowledge of rendering API's and hardware in general can accertain based on this information, but when it is speculation based on incomplete knowledge of what is actually within the X1, as much of that hardware will be under NDA.

There is however outright FUD being spread by people like MisterX, which some people take as gospel. Some of this is based off of something which seems technically correct, but is factually wrong. It's hard on this site to keep the two separate at times, as all this info does tend to come out as authoritative, and it hasn't helped that Wardell's statements are taken as applicable to the X1 unless he specifically states it, but even according to him, he doesn't really know, and it's all based on theory...which I can say he does understand.

DragonKnight964d ago

I was gonna say the reason MS have been silent about it is because they don't need to say anything, they have Wardell doing it for free.

bleedsoe9mm964d ago

its theory to him because he's not making a game for xb1 but he's talked to the reps he's dealing with at ms about it and its not theory to them , they know what it will potential do for games on the xb1 if devs use the new tools .

TheCommentator964d ago

Unfortunately, both Phil and Brad's statements are too ambiguous to accurately conclude anything. We know some DX12 PC improvements won't affect XB1 from Brad's recent TIC podcast, but he also admits he doesn't fully inderstand the hardware. Phil says don't expect a massive change, but never qualifies that statement with what the change is being compared to. PC benchmarks? XB1's current capabilities?

As an outsider looking in, how much of XB1's architecture can benefit from DX12? We know developers say the eSRAM is hard to work with and gets used poorly, if at all. DX12 will not only apply a new eSRAM API that essentially programs itself, but give it a 15% efficiency boost as well. The CPU also has a direct access pathway to the eSRAM, but why? No one knows what this function is included for. Now what about the split GPU running two commands simultaneously? How effectively are they being used right now with a a serialized API like DX11.3? True CPU and GPU paralellization doesn't happen until DX12 hits XB1. And what about Win10? Is it more efficient than Win8? No one at MS talks about this either but it could free up more resources as well.

Phil says, again ambiguously, that DX12 will make it easier for devs to use the XB1 the way it was designed to be used. Whether he can't say how much XB1 will improve because of NDAs, or because enough data hasn't been gathered yet, is unknown. One thing is clear though; the capability of the XB1 will improve with DX12.

DragonKnight964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

Did you seriously try to wash over Phil's statement that DX12 will not give much help to the XB1 by saying it was ambiguous? It doesn't have to be specific. He's saying that DX12, in general, is of more benefit to PC than it is to XB1 and not to expect much from DX12 on XB1. It's an efficiency boost, nothing more. He's said it numerous times.

I honestly can't comprehend the thought processes of people who just can't admit that one console is weaker in hardware than another, so they will twist, gloss over, and outright change the words of people who actually know what they're talking about to maintain hope that an API can drastically alter hardware limitations.

I'm sorry, but it's not going to happen. Get used to the fact that DX12 is not going to help the XB1 the way you all want it too. That doesn't mean you're getting crappy games, it means that an API is not going to change the GPU in the console.

**EDIT** "Whether he can't say how much XB1 will improve because of NDAs..."

What? It's their own API. Are you trying to say that Microsoft would make themselves sign an NDA saying they can't talk about their own API?

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photo...

TheCommentator964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

@ dragonknight

If Phil's statements weren't ambiguous(as I've already explained), we'd have the data we'd need in order to avoid conflict such as this. It's in Phil's CHOICE of words that such ambiguity resides, as they are open to interpretation.

What I can't comprehend is why it's okay for you to twist my words to mean something else the same way you claim I'm doing to Phil. I said the capability of XB1 will improve, that's all. The rest of my post cites the ways DX12 can possibly improve performance. You trying to make this into some fanboyish "DX12 will make XB1 outperform PS4" statement is just childish. It was never mentioned nor alluded to in my post. If, however, all the things I mention lead you to the conclusion that XB1 will outperform PS4 then that reasoning is yours alone.

As for the NDA, proof of it's existence resides in the fact that MS and AMD have been working together on DX12 and, as recently as GDC, there are still undisclosed features of DX12.

Edit:
You realize that you confirmed that you believe Phil's statements are ambiguous by using the phrases "It doesn't have to be specific" and "in general"? I just thought that was funny.

WilDRangeRfc964d ago

I think that too many people read shit and think they know what they are talking about on sites like these,will DX12 make the X1 more powerful than PS4?? I think not,will it improve the X1?? If I was to guess I would say yes,everybody knows the X1 was rushed out the gate,and alot of people think they know every detail of the hardware when they clearly do not,stop being armchair devs and wait for X1 games to implement DX12,then we will know for sure.Software can help hardware if it is designed to do so,there is so much more to it than ' the weak hardware and GPU means X1 will always be underpowered arguement ' people saying that just show how little knowledge they have.For the record I have both consoles and I think there is a substantial power gap in PS4 favour that will be the case for the entire 8th gen,I do think that gap will decrease,PS4 will always be the most powerful though end of story

DragonKnight964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

"If Phil's statements weren't..."

The only conflict exists in the minds of people like you who refuse to take Phil at his word. Quoting Phil Spencer now...

“On the DX12 question, I was asked early on by people if DX12 is gonna dramatically change the graphics capabilities of Xbox One and I said it wouldn’t. I’m not trying to rain on anybody’s parade, but the CPU, GPU and memory that are on Xbox One don’t change when you go to DX12. DX12 makes it easier to do some of the things that Xbox One’s good at, which will be nice and you’ll see improvement in games that use DX12, but people ask me if it’s gonna be dramatic and I think I answered no at the time and I’ll say the same thing.”

There is NOTHING ambiguous about that. At all.

That's clear as day, there is no data needed. The man IN CHARGE of the Xbox division is saying "don't expect DX12 to change the graphics capabilities of the Xbox One. Do expect it to make development easier." He's saying devs will be able to streamline their development process by using DX12 to optimize games better on the Xbox One. It's clear cut, verbatim, and plain. No ambiguity there, no data necessary for anyone but people like you who actually think DX12 is going to do anything significant for the XBox One's performance.

"What I can't comprehend is..."

Oh please, go and try that with someone who was born yesterday. Your entire post was meant to obfuscate the truth going so far as to state that Phil was being ambiguous and/or under NDA so as not to be telling the whole story about DX12. It's clear you don't want to believe what he's saying, and there's clearly only one reason why. You don't want to believe it because to believe that it's true what he said, that DX12 will effectively do nothing for the Xbox One means you have to admit that the Xbox One is inferior in design to the PS4 and always will be, that there won't be much you can expect to see in terms of dramatic improvement over the console's life. Anyone can see that all over your post.

"As for the NDA, proof of it's existence resides in the fact that MS and AMD have been working together on DX12 and, as recently as GDC, there are still undisclosed features of DX12."

There's no proof of its existence, you're making that up. IT'S MICROSOFT'S API! What possible kind of NDA could Microsoft leverage AGAINST THEMSELVES OVER THEIR OWN PRODUCT?! Do you understand how absolutely ludicrous that sounds? That you think because MS haven't touted every feature of the API that it means they've put themselves under NDA for their own creation? AMD can't put them under NDA because, once again, it's Microsoft's API. Microsoft can talk about it as much or as little as they want to and if they don't mention a feature in detail, it's because they don't want to or it's not polished yet, not because they are threatening themselves with legal action if they talk about it while putting themselves under contract to not talk about it.

"You realize that..."

Actually that's not a confirmation of anything. That's making the point to you that there literally can't be ambiguity in Phil's statement. There is no room for interpretation in "I’m not trying to rain on anybody’s parade, but the CPU, GPU and memory that are on Xbox One don’t change when you go to DX12."

You're delusional. When DX12 comes out and nothing changes just like Phil has been saying time and time again, remember this conversation.

TheCommentator963d ago

@dragonknight

Who's not taking Phil at his word? I can't believe how ignorant you are! Now you blatently ignore the very quote you use to defend your position. Do you have problems with language? I ask you this because you haven't understood anything in Phil's statements or my posts since you started arguing with me. How do you take "won't be dramatic" and turn that into "don't expect it to change the graphics capabilities"? Are you really dumb enough to confuse ther term capabilities with power? Phil is right about hardware being static and no one with half a brain refutes that. It's capability which improves by some unknown margin. All of the things in my original post talk about the hardware already in the XB1 and the possibility of their efficiency being enhanced with DX12, yet you still fall back on the tired "hardware doesn't change" BS.

Since, in your mind, Phil's statement is not ambiguous, how about you define the context of the word dramatic as he used it? Dramatic compared to what? XB1 in its current state? The improvements benchmarked on PC already? Something else? That statement you use IS ambiguous because Phil doesn't give enough detail for anybody to get an answer. While we're at it, how about you tell us what XB1 is good at? Since no one understands the intent behind its design and MS hasn't told us yet, that's ambiguous as well. To add insult to injury, many other statements Phil has made are equally void of any definition of DX12's actual performance on XB1 as well.

TBH, it's people like you who continue to degrade the forums into $#!+ flinging contests based on your false accusations of intent and ignorance in general. You don't even belong in here with your pro PS4 slant, which you've brought up twice now. Trying to make someone elses choice look like the wrong choice is just plain stupid. Grow up or get out.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 963d ago
MrDead964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

I think MS are quiet about the effect DX12 will have on the X1 is because there’s not much to say. Yes it will bring some efficiency benefits but we see this in all console lifecycles.

My question is when DX12 is out why buy an Xbox?
The two big things that sell consoles are price and exclusives.

DX12 will bring down the cost of PC gaming thanks to its efficiencies so you can purchase a competitively priced PC and have it perform just as well as consoles.
A lot of Xbox exclusives are also already on or are coming to PC, and let’s not forget Xbox Live will be free on PC too.

After DX12 and free Xbox Live on PC I can see the Xbox One being a harder sell.

rainslacker964d ago

Spencer is certainly not the hype machine his predecessor was, or other execs at MS if I may say. Most of his focus has been on the games which, IMO, is where it should be.

He'll occasionally speak about the technology in very broad terms, or answer specific questions, but he doesn't go on and on about how MS is super innovative because of what may come one day. I won't say this is 100% true, but more often than not it's the case.

This is why I actually respect him(although I always have). He's excited for the games, and he leaves the tech up to the developers to show off. It's what I think is the most important on a game system, because at the end of the day, the delivered content is what people will experience.

On that note, I think if MS, and possibly Spencer himself felt that DX12 was going to bring the X1 on par with the PS4, or at least make it substantially close to it, then there would be some more hype for it. It's also possibly that MS recognizes that they need to actually show off a product instead of hyping it up for people to truly believe it(cloud being a good reason why people doubt them so heavily). One can only cry wolf so many times before people stop paying attention.

kstuffs964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

LOL people still don't believe the built-in Xbox Live Compute (i.e. Cloud) can enhance the capabilities of the Xbox One. People laughed at it. They said the Cloud can improve AI, physics, and other non-latency sensitive items to the Cloud, and peopled laughed at it. Yet, it's possible to stream an entire game: graphics, audio, inputs, everything and those same people are all oooh-ahhh. So I am not surprised if MS is closed lip until DX12 is available for XB1.

DragonKnight964d ago

People laugh at it because Cloud Compute is very different from Cloud Streaming. People laugh at it because they understand that what MS is talking about is not possible with the current network infrastructure of the world. Not without massive latency resulting in huge problems for games making use of it. Get your head out of the clouds until MS proves, in an uncontrolled environment, that Cloud Power actually works.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 963d ago
Transistor964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

It's the same reason they're now silent about cloud computing.

To be honest little no name game sites and Brad Wardell hype up DX12 for Xbox One more than Microsoft themselves.

uptownsoul964d ago

Brad Wardell hasn't hyped up Dx12 for Xbox One at all…He's ONLY talked about Dx12 on the PC…Its other's that believe the results will be the same on the Xbox One. Wardell has specifically said the Xbox One would not get the same boosts from Dx12: http://imgur.com/OQkByrQ

Kayant964d ago

Wat???

I don't think you're talking the same person with the below things he has said before. It's not until after GDC and such he has calmed down I mean this is the very same person that said this at the reveal of DX12 - "Suddenly, that Xbox One game that struggled at 720p will be able to reach fantastic performance at 1080p. For developers, this is a game changer."
"XBox One is the biggest beneficiary; it effectively gives every Xbox One owner a new GPU that is twice as fast as the old one. "
http://www.neowin.net/news/...

Posting on Twitter, Wardell wrote: "One way to look at the XBox One with DirectX 11 is it has 8 cores but only 1 of them does dx work. With dx12, all 8 do."

Another Twitter user argues that Xbox One already does this, but Wardell says this isn't the case.

"I'm sorry but you're totally wrong on that front," he responded before adding, "XBO is very low on overhead. Overhead is not the problem. It is that the XBO isn't splitting DX tasks across the 8 cores."

Asked on Twitter how DX12 will benefit Xbox One games, Wardell replied: "I think it'll make it easier to have games run at higher resolution and have more objects on screen at once."
http://www.videogamer.com/n...

uptownsoul964d ago

@Kayant

Your giving me quotes from articles in April of 2014 and I'm giving you quotes from him on March 2015 where he said "At the end of the day, Dx12 does help XBO. But no one can say how much yet"…You can take from that direct quote whatever you want

LordMaim964d ago (Edited 964d ago )

@uptownsoul: Maybe you didn't notice that the article Kayant references was written *by* Brad Wardell. So that is a direct quote as well.

uptownsoul964d ago

@LordMaim

Sorry if I suggested that Brad Wardell didn't write those articles, but my main point was those articles he wrote were 11 months before the tweets he wrote. Meaning that his most current statements about Dx12 have ONLY been about PC and NEVER about XB1…

Here's another quote of his from March 25, 2015: where he clearly & specifically states that he's ONLY talking about Dx12 boosts on the PC: "No one knows how much benefit Xbo will get from dx12. I can only speak about the pc bc we have dx12 titles in development."

source: http://imgur.com/VH2ffxl

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 964d ago
Septic964d ago

"It's the same reason they're now silent about cloud computing. "

I'd hold off on dismissing cloud computing at least until Crackdown is shown. That is purported to be using the cloud to off-load mass real time destruction. If it works then expect a lot of people to eat crow. Similar if it doesn;t work