Brad Wardell on how Vulkan can probably make easier for developers to make games on PS4.
yet the same dude came out and just said DX12 wont do a thing for xbox one, he was talking about pc the whole time, guy is a tool of the highest degree
Well DX12 isn't going to do much for the Xbox One, however it will do quite a bit for PC
well he should have just came out and said it, instead he talked a load of trash to get his name in everyones mouth, like i said the guy is a tool in my book, you can disagree of course
Kick us a link where he says DX12 will do nothing for Xbox One. DX12 will do much more for PC, but that doesn't mean the Xbox One will get no benefit. This is what Brad said, "According to Wardell, DX12 should improve Xbox One’s eSRAM performance despite its small size, but it eventually depends on how developers use it and accordingly update their game engines." http://gamingbolt.com/dx12-... I see Windows 10 integration making a bigger difference than DX12 for gamers. W10 will make it so PC and Xbox One work together. DX12 will improve PC performance and to a lesser degree Xbox One performance. It's the games using DX12 in Windows 10 that can be played on both platforms that will be most seen. This holds true with Win10 and tablets and Windows phone also.
@cayosh You know The Witcher 3 was developed on Dx11 right? Its been said quite a lot already that games need to be developed with DX12 in mind to have any kind of benefit from the new API. On topic, Vulcan will be great for PS4 any software optimization is welcome.
@cayosh: You may be a young kid, so I will not call you a liar or and idiot. But son, that is not what the developer said. I will simplify what he said to try and help you out, as you obviously do not could understand the quote you read: He said that Micro Soft would need to add move to Xbox One than DX12 for HIS team to get THEIR game to 1080p. If you think I am mistaken please link me to the quote where he said " DX12 won't help Xbone". I could have missed it.
@cayosh "LOL! What? Witcher 3 devs didn't say that. Let's try again" Ok lets try again, first its a fact that The Witcher 3 its been developed on DX11. Google it. Second, Do you even know the definition of dramatic? Do you even think going from 900p to 1080p is a dramatic change? Most people can even tell the difference. Third, So you take the word from Damien Monnier, a Senior Games Designer who haven't worked on DX12 and discredit Wardell who actually have work with the new API just because it fits your agenda... Ha! ,Talked about delusion. Also do you even know what a game designer does? And what is so delusional about what i wrote. Its been said before and i stand by what i said, games that will see any benefits from Dx12 have to be developed with it in mind. So what is so delusional about that? But you know what you believe whatever makes you sleep better at night.
@cayosh Oh boy... How old are you? When did I say the XBO version would be better than the PS4. In fact i haven't mentioned PS4. It's obvious you have your fanboy glasses on. Good night sir or should i say kid, nothing to argue here.
"DX12 makes it easier to do some of the things that Xbox One’s good at, which will be nice and you’ll see improvement in games that use DX12" Yes, we will see improvements in games that use DX12. Phil goes on to say it will not be dramatic. Casyosh, you are saying there will be no improvement. Phil says it won't be dramatic. That leaves quite a bit in between. I'm leaning towards the lower end of the spectrum, but that is still improvement. The real benefit will be for developers creating the games/apps that can be played on PC and Xbox One.
@Wesker2015 Actually he said he doesn't know what it'll do for xb1 and can only speculate, a bit like the rest of us really. https://twitter.com/dragino...
Hes not shut up saying DX12 will be a game changer for xbox one then realised he was wrong. Now hes talking about PS4.. The guys not made a game for ps4 nor xbox one. Lets ignore this guys please and listen to developers who have had experience with the consoles. Not the inventor of windowblinds.
Essentially, Brad is telling Sony they should support his product. What's next? Nyko CEO telling us that Sony should certify their PS4 components?
Reading between the lines, basically, he cant be arsed to learn something new and wants the easy (less performance) way.
Why dismiss it? Brad has a good point that PS4 API is very specific and is not cross platform friendly. DirectX 12 will be with PC and Xbox One, and so are a host of others. As a developer, I would ask the same questions. Will DirectX 12, PS4 API, Vulkan or anything else for that matter enable me to do my job while considering performance, ease of use, and multiplatform considerations? Remember having to learn something "new" cost developers REAL MONEY. So calling them lazy is just extremely near sighted by most likely arm chair devs!
I'm not dismissing it, but Brad's purpose is to sell his product not think of what's the best solution for Sony. So far, his solution is that it would help with cross-platform development. Perhaps that's not a big issue or priority for Sony at this time? Furthermore, nothing about Vulkan has been proven to improve said things on the PS4 without causing other issues. There's a ton of unanswered elements to this. So, selling it now? It's just promoting your product without having any numbers.
Spending real money to learn something new is a part of his job so you can't use that excuse imo. I work in I.T. and I sometimes take classes to keep up on the latest stuff if not I will be behind and someone who knows the new stuff will take my job that is just part of the game if you work with any type of tech.
I'm not sure how much stock I put into what Brad says. Stardock isn't really a game developer, they are known for their utilities and apps on PC. The last game they released was a critical failure. I wouldn't say this disqualifies what he says, but I wouldn't necessarily take it as gospel either.
PS4's API is a OpenGL variant, which makes it workable with most OpenGL code. Anyhow, I dunno why he would need to suggest to Sony that they should get Vulkan. The chances are actually pretty high that that will happen, as Sony is actively involved in it's development.
Well, he openly admits that the PS4 API is lower than even Mantle... and it can be assumed that Mantle is lower than Vulkan, so the PS4 API must be Ultra Low and much less intuitive. Now, I can understand people wanting to use the PS4 API because its obviously the most powerful... but being as though Sony is also a member of Khronos, how likely would it be for Sony not to include support for Vulkan? Realistically? Its a catch 22 in a way. They have this super powerful, balls to the ground API and then they are supporting this cross platform API.
Cross-platform APIs tend to not be optimized and have their own issues that require you to go back into the lower level processing. The question is are the gains worth the possible issues that may arise. As I said above, even Brad doesn't know and he's already selling it to us on PS4. That's not really worthwhile until he actually has some figures.
Vulkan is using Mantle as its Base! It is already stated that Vulkan can in fact be used on the PS4 you just needed to have OpenGL 3.1 Supported hardware because OpenGL is being Replaced by Vulkan, it is what OpenGLnext was going to be.
@Christopher Point taken though, and it is very facetious for him to say that people should bee more excited about Vulkan than Sony's own lower API. @joeorc I think we will eventually see some sort of direct compatibility with Vulkan on PS4. Or it may be something more like what Chris is saying.
Keep in mind we are talking API's and not "coding to the metal". API's make development easier, not necessarily better. It saves money and time which is attractive for developers that aren't looking to create cutting edge games. These API's are good for multiplatform developers and of course indie devs.
I don't get where he is saying Sony should support his product. He is asking them to support Vulkan, which is not his product. He does seem to want to put his product out on PS4. He could do that now, but as he said, he doesn't want to have learn Sony's API to code to that low of a level. He thinks this will hell other small developers who can not afford the time to study the API. Bard seems to be a fairly young developer, and obviously knows coding. He is not some guy who plays a lot of games and thinks he is and engineer. He actually is.
I wouldn't say he's a young dev. He developed games on OS/2 from IBM before it went under. He is a skilled programmer, and has worked on some impressive projects, but he is also a business man, and tends to push things aggressively by promoting them through is own products. He did this back in the OS/2 days as well. Oddly enough, I remember hearing from this guy back then, and wondering why he tried so hard. I forgot about him for years, and didn't even remember or realize it was the same guy. Him asking Sony to support Vulkan is him asking them to support his product, because no doubt he will implement Vulkan in some way through his game engine. I don't feel he was being malicious or passive aggressive about it. I also think that he probably already knows that PS4 will likely support some variant of Vulkan, but the likelihood is that Sony's own ICE team will take whatever comes with Vulkan, and refine it specifically to the PS4, like they did with their current API and GLNext/OpenGL.
I don't think Vulkan is ready for prime time yet? Sony should do whatever's best for performance. They could integrate Mantle technology, like Vulkan did, if it will help. Word has been Mantle wouldn't help much since the PS4 API was already close to the metal. Edit: I get the point Brad is making, support Vulkan not for performance, but to make cross-platform development easier. That's a move you'd make if your platform was lacking for games.. Since PS4 is dominant, they can get away with calling the shots here.
"I hate OpenGL (laughs). They’re old, their current one is just archaic. I don’t want to have to learn that, my brain is already full of OS2 and Linux crap, I don’t want to learn yet another short-term API." Uhhh... Initial release: January 1992 Stable release: 4.5 / August 11, 2014 What? It's neither a short-term API nor is it any less archaic than DirectX...
DirectX is like 1995, so OpenGL is WAYYYYYY more archaic, LOL! Maybe if he unlearns OS2, he'll have room in his limited brain for GL knowledge? Anyway, isn't Vulkan based on the OpenGL API?
"Anyway, isn't Vulkan based on the OpenGL API?" No, its a Api that was built from scratch as the full replacement for OpenGL, its composed of Mantle+DirectX12 full functions built into the Api. So #Vulkan and #DirectX12 are basically #Mantle, but DX12 will require Windows 10 and Vulkan will run on Windows 7? :-D https://mobile.twitter.com/...
He was a huge proponent of OS/2 back in the day. Also...didn't know Linux was short term or on the way out, nor did I know that OS/2 and Linux were API's. If he doesn't like short term API's then I don't know why he goes on about DirectX. MS changes that up every 12-18 months, but at least they keep it backwardly compatible...which isn't always a good thing.
Strange to see so much hate. I think everyone missed the positive part of the article which both PS4 and xone owners should be very happy about, "With the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox One they’re not even remotely scratching the surface for what people can do...they’re written for last-gen but updated for this gen...this gen’s graphics are still very far behind where they’re going to be.”
Logic != hate.
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