Ep469: The Order: 1886 A Flop? Peter Molyneux Interview Sparks Outrage (GTR)

This week on Gamertag Radio:

Happy Birthday Gamertag Radio! The Order: 1886 A Flop? Peter Molyneux Interview Sparks Outrage, Double Fine’s Tim Schafer defends Peter Molyneux over ‘unfair’ criticism, Evolve review by Peterocc & Fan Mail

[Moldiver]

Godfree. Holla at me...Let me make you some good intro music for your show!

[Venomousfatman]

I havent played the Order yet, but I think that it may be a thing when a ton of people are really not happy with how the game has turned out.

[fallacious]

Or the people who are happy don't talk shit about it online because they're fine with it. Often the vocal ones are the minority.

[NegativeCreep427]

Very true, fallacious. And as anyone who has even a moderate amount of first-hand knowledge of the Internet knows, the detractors (i.e. fanboys) on the other side of the fence usually make up the greatest amount (or at least a significant amount) of that minority; The ones that are so inherently critical of a video game are typically not even within the buying public or consumer base for said video game.

[mep69]

Thats why uber-feminists get away with it. Noisy minority ruins alot of things.

[Silly gameAr]

How about when there are a lot of people that are?

[ger2396]

Unhappy? The game play was posted on YouTube prior to release. People had enough time to cancel their pre orders or not buy it at all. In this day and age there is no excuse to not do some research before making a purchase of any kind.

[Transporter47]

I bought the game, and I am extremely happy for the way it turned out. Can it have improvements? Yes, but that doesn't make me unhappy. I am pretty satisfied :D

[Letthewookiewin]

Same here. They have the engine now they can focus on expanding the world and gameplay. The ending was great, including the post credit one.....

[VforVideogames]

No hate here but you can return it now , 5 hours later.

[James Vanderbeek]

the only people mad at the game is the media because its not like call of duty. haha. ps4 gamers are enjoying it.

I really enjoyed it.

[aPerson]

"PS4 gamers are enjoying it"

I certainly didn't and I was one of the ones looking forward to "playing" it.

[OUROSMAG]

A ton of people not happy? Trying reading posts on facebook, the people who comment on how much they love the game, far outnumbers those who are not happy... and half of those unhappy people are seemingly trolls.

Sorry but People are loving this game.

[OrangePowerz]

I like it a lot. Would I rate it with a 10/10 or 9/10? No it has some faults and flaws (the length isn't one of them), but the gunplay is solid, I played games with a higher cutscene to gameplay ratio (looking at you MGS series and particularly MGS4), and there aren't as many QTEs as reviews make it look (it does contain some that I think are not necessary). I can see why it wouldn't be a game for certain people, but really a scire like 5/10 or 6/10 doesn't do the game justice. In a time where we get one unpolished and buggy game after another they deliver a highly polished product that's free of major bugs and rarely has any small ones.

I think they delivered on what they wanted to deliver.

[nucky64]

the question is venom: have the people not happy witht game even played it?....I would say no. those who are not happy just spew general negative comments without giving specifics about the game. and I've only been able to get one of the haters to reply and then, he hasn't given me anything particular to the game that supports his opinion that the game is a let-down.

[Battlefieldlover]

Don't know if you really care but I just finished it and aside from the ending (clearly setting up For a second) I absolutely loved this game. The only real problem with The Order is its price.

Ps. Didn't hate the ending, I just like closure from games and movies, but it is effective in leaving me wanting more.

[fallacious]

This game is better than anything molyneux has made. He should seriously just quit making games.

[OrangePowerz]

For my view on The Order you can look a bit further up, but in a short summary I like it a lot.

I still don't agree with your comment. Molyneux did work on several excellent and amazing games that shapped some genres or in the case of the god game genre created it. He worked on Populous, Syndicate, Theme Park, Dungeon Keeper, Black and White, Fable and some others. That is quite an achievement when you look at an industry that has a high amount of people going into other industries after a short time because you earn a lot more doing similar stuff in other fields and a high likelihood for people getting burned out. I don't think he is bad as a game developer in itself, just that he isn't that good at containing his enthusiasm towards certain ideas or features he wants to have in the game. I fully think he should know better what can and can't be done in games and should present a more realistic view on his projects.

The thing is most developers would talk like that about their games. You are excited about what you do, if you wouldn't you wouldn't get through all the ridiculous hours and extensive crunch times and still do a decent job.

The difference is most of the people that are allowed to talk about their games have extensive training in how to do so and have to follow a strict script provided by the PR guys. For whatever reason he doesn't follow that.

[kratoz1209]

I enjoyed it

Short but sweet and hopefully the sequel fixes those problems

[DevilOgreFish]

I'm sure 1886 has a fanbase, Ryse Has one as well.

[PillowInUrBassDrum]

and you can count me in it.

[Avernus]

What defines a "flop"? Sales? Well that's yet to be decided, but last i heard it's number 1 in the EU beating Evolve(?).

A "flop" in review scores? Thankfully I don't take scores seriously, as that's based on someone else's opinion about what they're reviewing. What they like and look for, might not reflect my own likes and concerns. So if that's the flop, then lol... I'll play "flops" everyday over games like AC Unity, CoD and BF4 that were "gems" according to review scores.

[Canary]

Generally speaking a flop, as the name implies, is the result of a severe imbalance with a game's reception. Generally this means reviews are either much lower than expectations, or sales are much lower than anticipated.

Worst case scenario a game is unable to turn a profit because its development costs were too high and the development studio goes under (see Kingdoms of Amalur).

This is why AAA game development churns out such samey, unambitious games year after year.

[OrangePowerz]

I'm certainly not a huge fan of Molyneux post Black and White, but I think the interview crossed a line that it shouldn't if you want to be a respected gaming website. We all know how Molyneux likes to talk about features that don't make it into the game. For all the years of experience he has he should know what can and can't be done and he should know what kind of budget is needed to make a game and don't go over board when he already got quite a bit more than what he asked for. But that seems to be an issue with other Kickstarter projects as well, if you look at the Double Fine game they got a lote more than what they asked for and used up the budget before anything was released. The lack of a Publisher also means there isn't really anybody that drives a games budget and tries to get a game done at a specific point. Publishers might be considered evil, but they also try to keep things on track instead of just havibg them spin out of control.

With that said, as a "professional" editor you shouldn't ask someone who achieved a lot more then you in the industry a question like "are you a pathological liar?". That's disrespectful towards someone who spent a larg amount of his life and free time making games. I have my gripes with Molyneux and certainly criticised him in the past, but I wouldn't come with lines like that in an interview.

Interviews should try to find answers to hard questions, but that should be done in a respectful way instead of coming off like one if those Fox "news" douchbags.

[Scottyxboxoneandps4]

I think sometimes when a game gets panned like the order, it can actually get you to enjoy it more because you go in with low expectations, that has happened to me many times in the past and hopefully this will be the case with the order. Should be getting it tomorrow hopefully so time will tell I suppose...

[PillowInUrBassDrum]

Full price! As I did and I don't regret it.

These debates about length are ridiculous. The game clocks in at 7 hours or so. I've already started replaying it on harder difficulties after beating it once this weekend.

I love the story, the setting, tone and overall looks.

The game caters to my play preferences. I like third-person shooters. I've enjoyed critically mauled ones that feature cover (The Order) and no-cover (Red Faction Armageddon).

Just for argument's sake, shorter games that focus on SP that I have beaten and loved? Try Metal Gear Solid 4 or Heavenly Sword. And seriously, if you don't believe me about MGS4, clearly you have never received the Big Boss Badge.

[OrangePowerz]

MGS4 is awesome and another game some people like to call an "interactive movie". It's for sure one of my favourite games of all time especially the Shadow Mosses section with the Best isbyet to come and in the stealthy city section I always had Calling to the Night playing on the iPod. I just wish they would have stopped after that game and maybe only make remakes of Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 from the MSX. If I would have to name my favourite gaming series ever it's this one since it had quite an influence on my life.

While I love open world games it gets increasingly more difficult for me to finish them because of the time requirement and because of how long it can sometimes take before the story continues so I can loose interest in games if they aren't focused enough.

[PillowInUrBassDrum]

I agree on the open world front. I put in 66 hours for Dragon Age a couple of months back and that felt too time consuming for where this old man is in his life now and where his priorities lay.

Got around half way through Far Cry 4, then just had to stop. Again, taking too much time.

As far as open world games go, titles like inFamous or Watch Dogs are appealing to me more these days where I don't have to sink Skyrim level time into them.

It's this reason why The Order 1886 is even more appealing to me: I can play a quality title and not have to commit all of my "spare" time to it. This gen on PS4 has given me a couple of titles in this category, and my WiiU has done good providing me with casual games to satisfy my continuing hobby as well.

It's really all about circumstance. Maybe next stay-cation I take from work, I'll beat Far Cry? Who knows.

[slane3]

1886 isn't a flop. I think people are mad that its a Ps4 exclusive. Another brand new ip to go with Playstation's incredible stable of games. Buy some studios Microsoft...i know you can afford it.

[Canary]

So any time there's a bad game on a playsation platform, it's really because it's so good a game that it makes jealous xbox gamers launch massive smear campaigns to discredit them?

Yeah... that sounds reasonable to me.

[Spotie]

So this game is confirmed to be bad?

Wonder what game I've been playing, then...?