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Dev Thinks That They Should Not Utilize DirectX 12's Features For Xbox One Unless It's An Exclusive

Ariel Arias from Thotwise Games gives his take on DX12.

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Foehammer949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

Exactly

Developers use EXISTING API for single thread. That's the easy route and works for multi platforms.

Developers using DX12 features, multi thread, will only benefit X1 and PC.

Thatguy-310949d ago

Then I expect future xbox exclusives to utilize it then. Prove to us and show us that all this isn't just PR talk. This year all eyes will be on them to see how their exclusives hold up.

GameNameFame949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

MS Shot this down 5 times... this is not even considered as a PR. It just people desperately wanting to believe something.

Spencer shot this down so many times...

http://www.gamepur.com/news...

Devs on console do multithreading right now ....DX12 is giving what console have to PC. Just look at this dev from GDC, this is Ubisoft multi threading.

http://media.redgamingtech....

@Marlin

Are you grasping straw to twist what he said?

He said it won't be dramatic, but any small improvements will be game on game basis.

He said those in same sentence. Not him changing his mind.

MS themselves shoot this down 5 times, but wont stop you from grasping....

marlinfan10949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

@gamenamefame

It's funny yet sad seeing you write this in literally every dx12 article. I really think you care more about it than xbox fans do (Although you seem to care about what it won't do). You keep bringing up these quotes from phil spencer from last year yet don't mention his new tweets like the one where he said there will be improvements on a game to game basis. Or his re tweet of the article talking about improvements of coming to xbox one via dx12. If phil spencer would've come out last year saying there will indeed be nice improvements, you guys would've been crying for the last 6 months about how they keep hyping it up without showing anything.

Edit-

How did I twist his words? I said that he said there would be improvements on a game to game basis, which is exactly what he said. Funny how you say I twisted his words then you follow by twisting his words lol when did he say "small improvements will be on a game to game basis" have to add "small" in to strengthen your argument a little and put words in his mouth?

BallsEye949d ago

Games fully using dx12 won't be up till probably late 2016.

RiseofScorpio949d ago

I love how on every positive DX12 article your nowhere to be found. But on an article that makes DX12 like this your quick to comment SmH.

GameNameFame949d ago

@Marlin

you took it out of context.

He said he reconfirms what he said in that same sentence. and was speaking of how those "non dramatic" improvements will be. and it differs game to game basis.

So you. you forgot the portion where he RECONFIRMS DX12 not doing anything big.

Lol. Even MS engineers went out of their way to not include DX12 improvements on X1 slides.

When they talked about DX12 on PC slides, "it will be huge improvements"

When they talked about DX12 on X1 slides, zero mention of that improvements, but says "most of DX12 is already on X1"

It actually is called DX11.5 cause most stuff have already been there. DX12 is giving what console have to PC.

christocolus949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

@Gamenamefame

as marlinfan clearly stated above you are in every DX12 article,spouting the same BS. isn't there something else here that interests you?

marlinfan10949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

"Won't be a dramatic difference" is up for interpretation. Has he clarified what he meant by that? You seem to think it means small changes, but who really knows. When I think of dramatic I think of something vastly different, just because its not dramatic doesn't mean it's just some small improvement like you make it seem. I'm not gonna put words in his mouth (like you). Have you even once seen me say they will be huge or dramatic improvements? No. I don't think it's gonna magically double fps and bump every xbox game to 1440p or anything. I'm just saying that there will undoubtedly be improvements. The whole point of my original response is that you cherry pick what tweets of phil Spencers you like to bring up in order to strengthen your arguments and downplay dx12. And you do it in literally every dx12 article. Your post are so similar in all the articles that I almost think you keep it copied on your computer waiting for more dx12 articles. You post the same links and the same nonsensical dribble.

All someone needs to do is take a quick look at your comment history to see your agenda. Nearly every comment on your first page is about dx12..probably 85% of them, and all the comments are basically exactly like your comments in this article talking about the slides and how ms shot it down 5 times.

vishmarx949d ago

if its easy and works identical to dx11(with improvements obviously), imo they should.
but if they have to go out of their way to implement those features, i say screw it.

GameNameFame949d ago

@Marlin,
"
"Won't be a dramatic difference" is up for interpretation"

LOL. Spencer"it wont be dramatic"

6 months later

Interviewer "Do you still stand by that comment"

Spencer "Yes"

Nothing much to interpret. Just desperate grasp is what you have.

marlinfan10949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

I think you're the one grasping at straws here saying that since he said it's not a "dramatic" difference that it means xbox will only have minor improvements. Clearly you've run out of arguing points though or copied comments saved on your computer so have a good one buddy. See you in the next dx12 article.

yarbie1000949d ago

I like how people like GameNameFame have so many bubbles and spew nothing but nonsense.

The show is coming.

Lot of people gonna look really dumb here in a few weeks.

I can't wait

TheCommentator949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

GameNameFame trashed me like this in a thread just the other day. I tried to be a gentleman by PMing him instead of humiliating him in public and he just flamed me in response and blocked me afterwards. I just want everyone to know how he seems to post just to piss everyone off by making fanboy statements and cannot be reasoned with.

Edit: I gave him specific sites to go to that were full of technical data explaining why Xbox One was not realizing its full potential. He ignored them completely and went back to months old info to prove his point.

GameNameFame949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

@yarbie,

so MS officially shooting it down is just non sense? Them saying its mostly for PC is nonsense?

but rumor secret sauce is the gospel? and this is like after 100 secret sauces turned out to be false.

It just sound super desperate to me. LOL. "NO, MS IS WRONG. NO, THEY DIDNT MEAN "NO" that way. They just said "no" 5 times already! but meant something else."

This is so sad.

@commentator

You humiliated yourself. Here you doing it in public

LOL

http://n4g.com/news/1670757...

"Xbox One can run native 4k, and I'll tell you why I think it will(I can already feel the flames-a-burnin'). "

So desperate to try to believe in secret sauce MS directly shot down. 5 times. LOL

and btw, where is this link? source? You didnt PM any source. Just your desperate straw grab which was just really sad.

here is full technical data. By Ubisoft at GDC,

http://www.cinemablend.com/...

And yes, that is after multithreading and optimization on both consoles.

DragonbornZ949d ago

@GameNameFame Wow. Your argument, no your pessimistic perception of Phils quotes... Just stop commenting on Dx12 articles.

Kal0psia949d ago

@Gamefame

Again, those were in response to hardware specs. Do we think Dx12 will come and boost up hardware as if it exchanged hardware it magically?! ...No! Once you put your perspective in that regards you'll see what Phil means (with a smile ;D) saying of course it won't provide "dramatic improvements". And this was all in regards to the question asked to Phil.

Now for anyone who is actually interested in the technology will know damn well that XOne exclusive will have dramatic designs IF fully designed with Dx12. Why? Do your own research on this "exclusive features" the developer in the article stated. It's funny how all fanboys argue about the developer's comment and not realize the developer stated very valid points. It's the site that's the problem with it's clickbate BS, muddling the whole article to seem negative.

If anything in my opinon, those Dx12 "feature sets" ARE innovative and as one relevant developer put it, ...a "paradigm Shift". ;D

All of your sources have been nothing but crap quoting Phil from an old comment. Phil? He's not even a engineer. It's called expaction control, because we're NOT goign to see dramatic changes in multiplat games for now, only exclusives and wouldn't be surprised to see some awesome games.

GameNameFame949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

@kalopsia

Lol. Wasn't response to hardware.

Was direct response to "will dx12 have big impact on X1?"

He said no. He was saying unless hardware improves it won't change much.

No means no. Five no means definitely no.

Lolllo so desperate.

Hitman0769949d ago

@GameNameFame

You think PC needs something from consoles? HAHAHAHA Everyone go read #1.1.5 it pretty much invalidates anything this person called "GameLameBrain" has ever said in entire account history. He thinks DX12 is going to "give PC what consoles already have" wow dude you went all the way incorrect. 100% false. confirmed.

Azzanation949d ago

@Gamenamefame

Honestly you keep grasping onto old tweets, its sad.
The news is that DX12 will benefit all MS platforms including Mobiles, Tablets and XBOX etc.

https://translate.google.co... http://www.tmag.it/2015/02/...

I am not here to argue with you, I am hear to say your claims are old and don't add up anymore. If you want to listen to Phil tune down the hype then that's fine. To come out and say it wont do anything for X1 is stupid and fanboyish. DX12 has been claimed by many devs and many people who work for MS that its going to make good improvements. Phil isn't the only one working at MS and his only in charge of Xbox not MS.

GameNameFame949d ago

@azzass

That tweet was less than a month ago.

Are you that desperate? MS officially shot this down. 5 times.

This is so pathetically sad. Loll. Your source is a guy who you never even heard of. He don't even have a NDA with MS on DX12.

And we forgetting MS shot this down 5 times? And recently too?

LiamBoxPlay949d ago

Just reading a few of the comments from GameNameFame here, if DX12 brings nothing to the Xbox One, why the hell are MS going to show the GDC15 conference on Xbox Live at all? Surely it would be pointless showing Spencers keynote if there were no implications of DX12 on the XboxOne #justsaying

+ Show (17) more repliesLast reply 949d ago
mhunterjr949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

Most developers use PC as the lead platform anyway, and win10 users will be expecting developers to use the API that makes best used of their hardware (ie DX12).

Then the PC game is ported to console hardware, with performance downgrades where neccisary. Perhaps dx12 on Xbox will reduce the need to downgrade CPU bound aspects of a game. So be it. It's no different than how the PS4 reduces the need to downgrade GPU bout aspects of a game.

In eaither case, developers should be trying to maximize their use of all hardware options.

Hitman0769949d ago

That's incredible story bro, do you also live in a city called Candyland, USA with magical rainbows and fairies everywhere? That's what's supposed to happen, but not always what happens. Google "PC Port" and enjoy...

wishful thinker...

mhunterjr949d ago

@hitman0769

Care to elaborate? Which part is unlikely? Do you dispute the FACT that PC is the lead platform this gen? You don't think DX12 will be used of PC versions? You think that devs will switch back to DX11 when porting to consoles?

christocolus949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

Actually the games im most excited to play on xbox one are mostly xbox exclusives. Gears, Quantum break,Halo5, Rares upcoming ip ,Scalebound also Division&Batman too and i hope the devs utilize Dx12 to the fullest. Windows10 might just be the best OS MS has made in a while. GDC will be awesome this year.

poor_cus_of_games949d ago

Batman is not exclusive. If anything it's being marketed as more a ps4 game than anything. Also anyone know why titanfall is down?

christocolus949d ago

@poor-cus_

"most games i'm looking forward to playing". MOST is the keyword bro. that's why Batman and The Division are listed last. those two aren't exclusives but i'm most likely going to be buying them on xbox one and i hope they all get to utilise DX12 too.

Bigpappy949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

LOL. There are a few things here that I find absolutely amazing:

The first is that some people here are trying to argue that DX12 is just multi treading that is already done on consoles, but is not available on PC. Hahahaaaaa... that has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard PS fanboys try to sell and knowledge. Multi-treading was created and used on PC for years. Before they were aware that DX12 allows the cores to work independently, they were saying that DX12 is just low level to the metal programing. Now having individual cores all have free access to the GPU is the same as multi-treading, lol.

Next is that PS4 fanboys, just recently, would shout any developer who mentioned or suggested PARITY in any form. Now here is this developer saying that they should not use DX12, because it gives Xbox and PC an unfair advantage. No one seems up in arms over this.

I like how the writer at Gamingbolt decided to add his 2cent about the API on the X1 being already similar to DX12 because it allows for low level access to the hardware. You would think that this guy who are responsible for providing gamers with factual information, would research and read all there is out there before posting their own uninformed BS. DX12 is about much more than LOW level access to the hardware! Why do some people still keep saying it is a low level API. Will we see the same comments when SOny announces that they will start supporting Mantle? Because despite what this developer is saying about need for parity, big house developers are going to be too tempted to not use these DX12 features in their big games.

949d ago Replies(3)
IrishSt0ner949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

"if DirectX 12 turns out to be good enough it might force several developers to move to Windows 10 and I think people will eventually do that"

Virtually all new AAA PC games are DX11 (newest ones DX11.x), and I fully expect the same for DX12, also the vast majority of the PC community are going to upgrade to Win10 as it's free (and much better than W8).

So a (PC/PS) indie dev who can't afford to start upgrading their API mid-development uses that personal experience to say devs shouldn't use exclusive D3D12 features, um NO.. while I accept that makes sense for them it sure as hell doesn't stand for multi-million unit AAA developers.

Also, NVIDIA gameworks /discussion.

NuggetsOfGod949d ago

@1st comment...

So now sony fanyboyd believe in parity?

shloobmm3949d ago

So then, as an xbox gamer can I complain about parity when third parties aren't taking advantage of the system in the correct ways.

Justjoined123949d ago

@GameNameFame

You are beyond rescue at this point, you talk like a broken record and you seem to have done a great job convincing yourself that you are right about something.

What people are trying to tell you is that even though MS have said performance improvements wont be DRAMATIC on the Xbox, that doesnt translate into MINIMAL performance improvements.

Kreshi949d ago

What the developer wants to say is that by using DX12 they could restrict themselfs to Win10 and X1 only. The reason for that is simple: he believes that the more features DX12 gives, the harder it would be to port that specific game to another platform/OS that doesn´t support DX12.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 949d ago
trywizardo949d ago

its easier for them specially if they're making the same game for PC too , and developing games for in DX12 is easier than 11 , that's what i heard (not sure if right or wrong)

TheCommentator949d ago

Yeah, if a game is on PC and consoles I would think it would automatically take advantage of full DX12 on Xbox One. Ultimately, almost every title will use it to port their code over effectively because it will save them time and money.

Double Toasted949d ago

He says this as advice so as not to upset Sony fans in the case of parity because if a XB1 game looks and performs better than its counterpart they'll try to skin the Dev alive.

OmegaShen949d ago

You do know the head of Xbox said it isn't going to have a huge effect on Xbox One right? Sorry, but it has already been said it won't do really anything but make it easy to develop games for it.

christocolus949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

Well the head of xbox also retweeted brad wardels comments on Dx12(where he stated the apis benefits to xbox one) you know brad wardel(the guy currently working with dx12). Anyways the xbox dx12 team will be doing a podcast with the inner circle before and after GDC so we will soon know if the gains will be huge or not.

marlinfan10949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

He said it won't change xboxs gpu and CPU (which is obvious) and that there would indeed be improvements on a game to game basis but that they won't be dramatic changes. The second part is up for interpretations on what he meant by dramatic changes.

Can you show me where he said it won't really do anything except make it easier to develop? For some reason I don't think you can....

OmegaShen949d ago

You can look it up, is it that hard to find his old tweets?

halfblackcanadian949d ago

Not true. He said the hardware won't change.
Huge effect and literally anything else (large effect, any effect, small effect) are highly interpretive statements. His job is to manage expectations. Games won't all of a sudden become 4k overnight. Multiplatform games won't be taking as much advantage as others. Developers have to want to use it to its fullest. When PC/Xbox start being the lead platform the differences will be noticeable. Wait for a ground-up-for-DX12 game to hit shelves. Trust me, you'll see the difference.

srd4484949d ago

@Omega When the heck did he say it really wont do anything? All he said was it wont be a dramatic change. He also said you'll see 40% improvements on PC but that was proven wrong bc they are seeing 300%+

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 949d ago
OrangePowerz949d ago

Devs didn't feel it necessary most of the time to have parity for PS3 and they didn't get skinned alive. So far when parity comes into play it's mainly so that some other certain console brand doesn't look like the weaker system.

I wouldn't worry too much about a multiplatform game running better on the X1 because of the secret sauce of DX12.

halfblackcanadian949d ago

Um, according to almost everyone Xbox One games don't get parity right now. Plenty of content has either a higher framerate or resolution on PS4.
PS3 parity was an entirely different beast. Developing for Cell was a much harder endeavor. These consoles are as similar as making a PC game run of an AMD vs. NVIDIA.

949d ago
DigitalRaptor949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

Looks like this is going to be new "PS4 is holding back the other platforms" slant.

An improved API will obviously benefit the platforms that use it specifically, but we all know how this kind of angle is going to be spun going forward. ]
------

Yep. and looks like I wasn't wrong. Comment #6 below - gameon1985

I can predict everything these Xboys will do before it even happens. We've found yet another dud in the handbook of MisterXmedia. Brace yourself folks. Here we go.

hello12949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

Well its going to be brought up! After a quick google i find this guy makes games for PS4 and PC, not a mention of the x box 1 anywhere

You have to question his motives!

http://vrfocus.com/archives...

To be honest a lot of third party devs will be thinking the same way as this guy about dx12.

It would be great if the PC, x box 1 and PS4 used the same API and i would not be opposed to it it benefits gamers.

Full DX12 third party games will be a rare sight on x box 1.

christocolus949d ago

If Dx12 will make xbox one games better then devs should go for it.afterall many multiplats will end up on PC too so a similar api between Pc and xbox shouldnt be that big of deal afterall dx12 was made to allow crossplatform development between pc and xbox alot easier..i think every platforms unique features should be harnessed properly.

Outthink_The_Room949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

@KNWS

Third party will use DX12. To the extent of how many features is unknown, but they will use it.

The fact that DX12 can be ported back and forth between XB1 and PC means very little legwork for programmers. The oddball is now PS4. So unless a company is going to gimp two versions, DX12 will be used.

This article is very weird. This particular statement caught me off guard..

“In any case, I don’t think we should utilize DirectX 12’s exclusive features at the moment, unless of course you are working on an Xbox One exclusive title.”

I don't really understand what would be "exclusive" features. Unless he is talking about hardware specific features. And if that's the case, then the XB1 has more underneath the hood than we think.

An API is simply software, nothing to do with hardware, only utilization of said hardware. So how would building an exclusive XB1 game with DX12, be THAT DIFFERENT from building almost any other game in DX12?

It really is a weird statement, since every article and interview has pointed to Windows 10 being almost identical from a developers standpoint, across all the devices.

I really don't know what to make of that statement. It almost sounds like he's saying that developers have more to work with, but should limit themselves. I mean, how would "exclusive features" be so different on XB1 compared to PC?

mhunterjr949d ago

Why would it be a rare sight. Most 3rd party games are built first for PC, then ported to xb1. Dx12 will be highly adopted because it's a free upgrade at works on existing PC hardware. So rest assured PC versions will support dx12. Why would they remove DX12 support on the Xbox port?

rainslacker949d ago

Games are made on game engines. Any modern, multi-plat engine supports both DX and OpenGL(or it's equivalents). There are maybe 2-3 engineers on a team of 50 that work directly with an API to get a game running.

Third party devs may think the same way in terms of parity, but it won't be because of DX, it'll be in terms of how to get all versions of the game done at the same time.

This is the way it's been for over 30 years of multi-plat game development, and it's not the first time a huge change in API's has come around. DX12 may surpass OpenGL for a while but changes will be made to OpenGL to implement features that are needed to keep up.

DX isn't some miracle that's never been seen before. API updates are expected, and when announced, planned for.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that OpenGL and DX have pretty much the same types of features, sometimes with different implementation pipelines, and when it comes to game development, very few people on a team have to concern themselves over it. Game engines were created to streamline this stuff so devs didn't have to worry about it as much, and depending on the game, you don't have to know a single lick of DX/OpenGL code to create an entire AAA game. It is needed if you want to get the most out of a console though.

3rd party devs will use DX12 and OpenGL. I don't think any dev is going to implement their own API for this stuff, and there is really no benefit to doing so. If DX12 does something now that OpenGL doesn't, and a dev needs that feature for thier game, they may implement that particular feature, but no dev is going to spend years reinventing the wheel for a proprietary API which will likely be out of date by the time they're done with it.

I try not to argue over this stuff anymore, because I find that many people have no clue what an API is, or how it's utilized to make a game or game engine. I see a lot of hyperbole and regurgitation of PR statements, and it just gets old.

I know a lot of things DX12 can do because I'm working with it now. It's a nice API. No one cares what I have to say on here about it though so what's the point in trying to give my viewpoint?

For the time being, I'll just wait for the games to come around, then talk about them then. it's going to be a while before you see a fully DX12 implemented game though, since the standard probably won't be finalized until near the end of the year.

@mhunter

Nowadays many games have a target primary system to build to, more commonly known as the lead platform. Only about half the time is it PC. The games are built on PC though, so "porting" isn't as big of a deal as some people make it out to be.

From my experience, the lead platform doesn't really matter though. About 90% of the primary code is the same between platforms and handled by the game engine. Special routines make up the rest, and they have to be programmed individually no matter what the lead is. In some ways, it's actually better to have the weakest platform as the lead, since it actually easier to port to stronger hardware. But I do know people will disagree with me on that.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 949d ago
gangsta_red947d ago

"Looks like this is going to be new "PS4 is holding back the other platforms" slant."

I love how you are already setting it up to blame Xbox fanboys when and if this new API does improve the Xbox One's performance significantly.

You were the main culprit running around N4G parading "superior" everything and it may just look like that pie will be thrown right back in your face. It'll be interesting to see if you'll be exposed yet again for your double standards.

But I am glad you are laying the foundation of trying to cover your tracks.

Saijahn949d ago

I say optimize the games for each console's strengths. I know devs want to play it safe across the board but let's not hold these consoles back anymore.

If PS4 has the power to push every game 1080p / 60 fps without issues..go for it.

Since the X1 has the stable networking with it's massive cloud server base..devs should use that for smoother online gaming and whatever DX12 will bring to the table.

Let each console shine for its strengths, yes even at the expense of its own limitations.

Claudiafox949d ago (Edited 949d ago )

"If PS4 has the power to push every game 1080p / 60 fps without issues..go for it"

x´DDDD