Mortal Kombat X Execs Take Heat Over DLC Offering, and it’s All Evolve’s Fault

For Mortal Kombat X big wigs, the brief time since announcing the Kombat Pack, which will add four new characters and 15 skins as post-launch paid DLC, isn’t feeling very brief. Series creator and Mortal Kombat X director Ed Boon, as well as executive producer Shaun Himmerick, have spent the last day on Twitter defending the decision.

[-Foxtrot]

"and it’s All Evolve’s Fault"

Which is why no one should support it, I thought reviewers would take it down by saying how much of a DLC fest the game is but no, no they decided to skip past all it's faults and award the game high scores.

[Gazondaily]

Isn't the vast majority of the DLC just cosmetic stuff though?

[jackanderson1985]

yep the non-season pass crap is all cosmetic, the season pass is 25 dollars or whatever in line with the normal stuff

[BattleTorn]

Yeah, and in games we used to be able to customize our ascetics without having to pay an additional $3-6.

Does Evolve included ANY free skins? Weapon, character, or monster?
Or is the entire player customization locked behind a DLC-wall?

It's crazy to think we've gone from games like GoW, COD, Halo - where there'd be 20+ customizations, with a few locked as exclusive-preorder-bonuses, or season pass incentives....

to EVERY ascetic being an additional charge. (Evolve)

People say "it's all cosmetic" as if games - namely "MP shooters" - have never in the past operated on a cosmetic-reward system, aka unlockable weapon/player skins.

[Killz4Twinkies]

Correct - all cosmetic - nothing taking away from the core game - also all future maps are free

Never hear a peeep when call of duty withholds zombies or charges for every rehashed map pack

[Highlife]

If it's all cosmetic then I don't have a problem with it. I dint play games to play dress up.

[vallencer]

Yeah its pretty much all cosmetic. If I remember correctly it's a fps so why is there such a big stink over costumes?? You can't even see them!! The costumes are there for people who want to buy them otherwise just don't buy anything. All the maps will always be free and you can still play with people who purchase the monsters. This is a dlc model I don't mind at all.

[Utalkin2me]

@Killz4Twinkies

Well first off people expect it with COD, considering it has been doing it for years now. Secondly i have never known COD to hold out zombies and make you pay for it. Any Treyarch COD has came with zombies, you didn't have to purchase it separately to play it. And last, majority of high profile games make you pay for new maps, nothing new there.

[DragonKnight]

Here's a problem from what I can see, specifically related to MK and not Evolve.

"wish I could get people to understand MKX DLC was not cut from launch content we do it after we finish the disc DLC content can’t get done in time for launch, if the content wasn’t DLC it would not be part of the game. There’s just not enough time.

Ok, let's say that that's true, and I don't believe it in this case because it's characters they'd have to already be working on, as well as skins which I could believe. But if this is true, explain why we have to pay extra for stuff that, if you had time, would be on the disc we paid for? That is why I'm thinking it's actually cut content. Cut content can also mean content that could be on the disc, but instead is being held back so as to charge for it later.

Then this...

“@Takinro: @noobde Only games with poor roster need guest characters.. Or maybe as free optional DLCs for the ones who want some. EB: Wrong,"

Boon, you didn't answer anything. Your opinion of your roster is not being sought here. That person made a legitimate point. I'm not saying the roster sucks, but you definitely had these guest characters in mind BEFOREHAND. So if you didn't have the time to put them in the game, where we would have already paid for them, why shouldn't you be called out for charging for them later? Don't even get me started on the "Goro is locked behind pre-order" B.S.

This "skins" and characters B.S. is garbage though. I remember playing Onimusha Dawn of Dreams for the PS2 and you could unlock Street Fighter skins for the playable characters. Didn't have to pay a cent.

I remember countless RPGs where you could unlock hidden characters and items if you knew what to do. Cost? $0

Now, to make Scorpion pink instead of yellow, you'd better pay $1.99 because they didn't have time to do a palette swap option in the game.

Online may have brought with it the capacity for extending gameplay via multiplayer, but it also brought all of this B.S. along with it and there are people who are all too happy to part with their money for stuff that should and used to be free.

[pompombrum]

Yeah but it's the same sort of cosmetic stuff that was freely available and rewarded to MK owners (the last one at least) for actually playing through the game.

Season passes are so standard these days it seems silly to complain over it. If they done it for a game that was released with minimum content, then yeah fair enough they deserve all the hate (Evolve being a great example) but Mortal Kombat X is going to be one of the most content filled fighting games ever released, everyone who cares about the game is almost certainly going to get their money's worth from the retail edition.

[Fireseed]

@Dragon

Because they only have the budget to pay the artists to work on the disc content.

NEWS FLASH! It's harder to make games now a days then it was in the PS2 era. Want to add a bonus character to MK4? Sure pallette swap Scorpion give em some new moves. But now a days there's A LOT more work going into it. And strangely enough the longer you have an artist work... the more money it costs.

[DragonKnight]

@Fireseed: You don't seriously believe that do you? In order for your logic to work, these guest characters would have not have to have been planned ahead of time, and it's clear they were. You expect artists to just accept not being paid for whatever length of time it is between the game release and the DLC release? You think they'll get paid from the revenue of that DLC? Hell no. That's not a feasible way of doing things.

[Gazondaily]

To be honest, the MK games have so much content and an abundance of characters that I don't think it's an issue. In MK9 they also released characters a bit later.

For all we know, they just started working on these characters later like they've said because they don't fit into the story mode.

I don't get why people love to take the conflict approach and be overbearingly critical, basically accuse devs of lying and take their own theories as fact.

If I was a dev at Netherrealm then I would work on the main characters for the story. Id also plan to make extra characters in the future.

Apparently having a plan and promising future support is grounds for complaint.

[Fireseed]

@Dragon

Ok I'm about to explain something to you that's not even up for debate but just a straight up fact and it's extremely obvious in the way you talk you're unaware of it. So let's take MKX for example because I believe it is the most innocent in the whole "DLC is Draconian" bull.

A "skin" is not the work of a single individual now a days. Games go through a cycle of development, which passes through many stages of development with different artists.

Concept artist are extremely important for the initial conceptualizing of almost every single in game item. HOWEVER they're by and large only needed for the first say 50% of the games development. After that they have almost NOTHING to do. So after they're not needed on core game content anymore (meanwhile modelers and animators have begun the most intensive part of their work). So the concept artist start doodling ideas for skins and the like because they need to work on a product and have yet to receive work orders for a whole new game. That's why you're seeing sketches of in game skins for characters already. Technically yes they were working on them during development, but another news flash here drawing something doesn't instantaneously create a in game asset.

After the concept artists are done sketching these most likely modelers have just finished almost all the core 3d art for the game and need something to work on and the concept art for the new game isn't done so they need to keep working. And that's when they begin sculpting and modelling the DLC skins the concept artists just finished. But by this point they're no longer adding any content to the game.

After that the assets get handed off to programmers to be put into new builds of the game. And as every programmer knows, no matter how simple something may seem EVERYTHING could possibly break the game. That's why there's a cut off point. A time when producers have to say "Ok, that's it. Anything not done and already in the latest build becomes DLC" because if you kept adding the stuff artists had been doing as busy work for the past while... the game would be delayed again, and Again, and AGAIN!

Which is why I always mock most of you for believing that every single piece of content an artist makes at a studio belongs to you no question. And that if it isn't included on the disc they're somehow cheating you. It's almost always entitlement to the nth degree.

[Deadpool616]

@Fireseed

"NEWS FLASH! It's harder to make games now a days then it was in the PS2 era...blah blah blah."

The levels of expectations with each console generation are the same. Each generation is going be making something that's "GROUNDBREAKING!! OUTSTANDING!! MAX 330 MEGA PRO-GEAR SPECS!!!" but it doesn't change how they should do business that's gives us the most value out of our money. Playstation originally did it with ONE additional cost for all the games. They increased the cost of the base of the game. PSONE was $39.99 (COMPLETE), PS2 was $49.99 (COMPLETE), PS3 was $59.99 (INTRODUCING DLC) PS4 still $59.99 (DLC OUT THE BUNGHOLE!)

Have you sat back and wondered why they stopped increasing the price of the base game ever since DLC was introduced? Think about it. Save face by not increasing the $60 base price anymore, BUT utilize a more effective way (less resources than a sequel) to get up to $60 through $200 dollars per sale in one game iteration with JUST incremental add-ons (less work). The truth is we got more value out of PS2 prior to DLC being introduced in the PS3 generation.

They're making more money than ever by making people think that the process is drastically different, but in reality it hasn't changed by leaps and bounds. It looks better. Sure. But it's the same process with better tech every generation since 3D was introduced.

Would I pay a extra $10 dollars to get everything COMPLETE on one disc? The answer is...yeah. I'd much rather do that than be milked by companies with DLC. My nipples are very sensitive. They couldn't stand the pressure.

[DragonKnight]

@Fireseed: If you want to play the arrogant sarcastic a** game I can definitely accommodate you any day of the week. I think it's hilarious that you think that these skins are just one off drawings later decided to be fully worked on and into the game. Do you think it makes business sense to have employees hanging about doing nothing but doodling while waiting for orders and do you actually think that 4 guest characters and other character skins are ideas made on a whim? Wow.

[Fireseed]

@Dragon

Yes it does, make business sense. Having artists who are still mentally enveloped in the universe of the game they just developed let their imaginations run wild on cool cosmetics you can sell after the game launches for continued profit? And made on a "whim" what do you think they're made on? Logical scientific evaluation?

And yes it makes sense to keep those artists around just doodling... cause it sure as hell beats the alternative method of what to do with them after they're done...

http://www.joystiq.com/2014...

But hey maybe the concept of keeping good talent around rather than firing them and hoping to god they don't find work by the time you start development on your next game is a bad idea.

[DragonKnight]

@Fireseed: You seem confused. You seem to think that "not keeping them around to doodle" means firing them. It doesn't make business sense to have idle workers, and any good business will have plans for every employee well beforehand. It's laughable that you actually think businesses can survive with floaters and that things aren't planned because they have to be, because every dollar and minute spent needs to be accounted for.

I really hope no one ever places you in charge of any business. You'd run it into the ground.

[ifistbrowni]

@Battle_Torn

Evolve has 1 skin per character/monster. But, it requires you to master the class which will probably take 15-40 hours per character/monster (just a rough estimate).

[Gazondaily]

@Dragon

I'm getting confused here. On the one hand you say:

"It doesn't make business sense to have idle workers, and any good business will have plans for every employee well beforehand. It's laughable that you actually think businesses can survive with floaters"

But that's precisely what ISN'T happening at Netherealm. They don't have floaters. They have designers who work on finishing the product and are planning for content immediately afterwards.

Your issue is that they are charging for that extra content?

What grounds do we have to complain when they provide us with an abundance of content already and then give us extra stuff, albeit paid DLC, especially in this day and age with spiraling development costs?

[Kleptic]

most of my recent dislike of DLC is just because of awkward PR...

The publisher/developers predictably defend it by saying 'we don't have time to get this stuff in the retail version; without it being DLC, it wouldn't be in the game'...

that is fine and great...but...why is it being discussed/announced then?

I'm one that finds the idea of near release DLC that isn't free...kind of obnoxious...This 'its close to ready but not quite' doesn't cut it for me...Get the game released with what it should have, if that discludes what will be in future DLC...so be it...but then don't talk about what might've been...

this idea that DLC would've been in the game if they had more time...makes no difference to any sane consumer...we didn't pick the release date, they did...so what does that have to do with anything?...Then turning and charging for it, whatever it may be, before any product has actually released...is just pushing boundaries imo...

I'm not against DLC at all...I just get a little weird about it when DLC is being talked about just as much as the base game is, and when the plan is to release DLC so close to the actual game...if your game has the needed content to fulfill consumer's idea of value, you sure as hell don't need to be talking about what you're going to push out soon after...

[Omegasyde]

@above

Alot of flawed concepts above^^^

"The dlc is only cosmetic who cares??"

Because the actual 60$ worth of content is not there. Its like buying call of duty with a 2 hour campaigne and 3 multiplayer maps.

"Mk9 had a lot of content"

It did have decent roster but look at past MK games. Look at Mk armagedddan and look at mk9. Id much rather unlock fighters and costumes than concept art and meaningless soundfiles. Save that stuff for the collectors edition.

[user5575708]

if the sheeple keep buying it they will keep making it

[Blues Cowboy]

When reviewers get promo copies long enough, they can forget that games actually cost real money.

[geddesmond]

One day publishers will catch on. I will never buy Evolve because of the DLC and I wont but this game either. One day sales of these milking games will not sell well and then devs will cop on.

[SharnOfTheDEAD]

it might be cosmetic but A it's bloody expensive for what is nothing but a skin pack and B the game is so damn shallow with unlocks, almost seems like they been cut out and sold separately.

[oO_bizkitz_Oo]

Lmfao .... and why is it evolves fault... have games not done the same thing before evolve

[Whitefox789]

I can say despite the fact I love Ed Boon both as a developer and as a person. I'm disappointed he caved into this business model for DLC and blaming another game for doing it rather then being example and showing how to do something right.

My stance alone on DLC is pretty much on par with what CD Projekt Red is doing with The Witcher 3. I would never charge anyone DLC even if it was something as grand as extending the story of the game. The audience already bought the base game which is required to use the DLC to begin with.

I know from the article they are getting pressure from the publisher to make the game come out sooner so they can't finish all the content. Still doesn't really give them the excuse of charging for DLC which was planned to be in the original product anyway. Especially at the price point of $30 for four new characters to the roster.

[ifistbrowni]

How is this any different than Mortal Kombat 9 where they charged like $5-8 for Krueger and the other characters (4 in total, I think) they released? The season pass for MK9 was $25, I think. Lets rage over $5 more!

Plus, lets not compare MKX to Evolve. The roster for MK will probably be fully developed and have all the content that we would wish to have in a fighting game.

Evolve is a game that is lacking tremendously in content and then saying: "hey, buy this for a bit more content on our already bare bones game"

[Gamer1982]

I'm sorry but characters shouldn't be DLC at least not anywhere near launch as that gives the clear impression they should have made final game and are being cut to make extra cash. The gaming world is too accepting of this and needs to stand its ground. We are being taken for mugs and are allowing companies to take us for a ride all too easily. I remember back in the day when extra characters were unlockables not paid DLC..

[SilentNegotiator]

"I thought reviewers would take it down by saying how much of a DLC fest the game is"

Oh, -Foxtrot, that's just silly. They wouldn't do that unless they also had another agenda behind it.

[lolosgolos]

KI is fair in how it offers extra characters. It would be cool if they could rotate them like in KI and purchase if you like

[Fireseed]

KI works because it's got for the most part just the fighting mechanics and a smaller story mode. MK absolutely NEEDS the 60$ price tag to compensate for the MASSIVE story mode they put in.

[IrisHeart]

There is no possible way to defend day one dlc. Especially 4 locked characters in a fighting game. Enough is enough. This goes beyond Evolve.

[littlefatgirl]

Evolve is a $60 with microtransactions AND DLC characters. Mortal Kombat X made extra characters after completing the game, and wanted a little too much money for it.

[IrisHeart]

Boon is telling us it is because of DEADLINES. If it was because of time they could hold the release date until they finish or give us the characters free for the first week or month. But nope. MK went from day one buy to "wait a year and get it for 20 bucks".

[jackanderson1985]

@iris it might well be down to deadlines... publishers set a deadline and there is financial penalties if they miss them

[Baka-akaB]

You truly believe that in this day and age , fighting games characters that are dlc , arent just planified cut content ?

Well i dont , and usually there are tons of proofs leading to confirmation that on disks

[Gamer1982]

they always blame deadlines but the fact is its complete BS they use to cover up day 1 DLC. There shouldn't be any DLC other than cosmetic and yearly updates.

[Hoffmann]

"Boon is telling us it is because of DEADLINES. If it was because of time they could hold the release date until they finish or give us the characters free for the first week or month"

Never trust Ed Boon....or Warner Bros in general.

[IrisHeart]

Or Capcom!

[Gamer1982]

Indeed if it really was deadlines preventing the characters they could give for free.. Why charge if they were planned in the final game?? What a bunch of BS. He admits they were planned but then cut thanks to time restraints and now they are charging you. So the real fault here is the publisher. Or at least thats who devs keep blaming but its both the dev and the publisher.. They both keep blaming each other.

[Dark11]

You do realize that the 4 DLC characters are NOT day 1 right?

[TheCommentator]

What do you want to bet they ship on the disc like Street Fighter did it?

[vallencer]

The characters for the last mk they made weren't on the disc. So I'm pretty sure these won't be either.

[CorndogBurglar]

They havent said whether or not the 4 characters and 15 skins are day one downloads.

Its my understanding that they will be released later, just like how they released the extra characters for MK9 and Injustice. I could be wrong, but there is some confusiin because they haven't said either way. They've been vague about it.

[CocoWolfie]

where did anyone say the 4 characters are locked on the disc? ._.

[MSpence516]

This all started with Oblivion's horse armor.

[kurruptor]

Would you guys rather they delayed games a few extra months and increased their prices to $70-80 as a default?

Games are cheaper than ever. $60 has been the standard price for a very long time, hell some of them used to be more than that.

The reason for that is DLC. That is how they make up the rest. So, if you don't want to pay for that.... you'll have to pay for more up front.

[Kurt Russell]

More to the point why should every game cost $60? It's not like the work and effort is equal to every game released.

[Kingscorpion1981]

Turtle rock are vulture's lol. Money hungry developers. Evolve is not even worth 60 dollars. It's only a boring multiplayer game that should cost around 20 to 30 bucks with free DLC

[SharnOfTheDEAD]

You'll find more content in a free to play game, heck Warframe offers more than Evolve

[KaoSouL]

So what, name a fighting game that doesn't have DLC characters and costumes.... you can't, because it's been happening since last gen.

Pay to play, or don't complain.... you live in a material world where shit costs money, and more shit costs even more money.

It's called supply and demand..... as long as people want a bazillion characters, modes, and options in games, game companies will try to leech extra cash from us.

If it offends you, skip buying the game for a year or two, and wait for a rerelease of the game with all DLC included.

[Wonderful101]

Injustice had over $70 on DLC. After only seven months they released the Ultimate Edition with all the DLC.

MKX is not worth the launch price with the inevitable Komplete Edition just months away.

[CocoWolfie]

mk9 had a season pass too right? like with 4 characters and 3 skin packs too, and still came out with komplete edition. its inevitable but i dont see why people are complaining :/

[GearSkiN]

This post DLC is ridiculous! More more more money is what developers wants these days, I'd prefer season pass, but now there's season pass and DLC that you don't even get on season pass.

[CocoWolfie]

dlc after launch is ridiculous? o_0 if dlc isnt included in the season pass! sure >.< but dlc's great when its done and priced right.

[mhunterjr]

I don't care about paid DLC for cosmetic items... Especially if the "whales" are financing the dlc I get for free.

I buy games to play them, not play dress up with the characters.

[CorndogBurglar]

What about that Barbie Dress Up game you have? That thing is completely based around dressing up characters.

Hypocrite much? Yeesh....

Lol, kidding.

[NicSage]

Sick and tired of this DLC bullshish.

[Fireseed]

Then don't buy it?

[Goldenarmz]

So wait, you say you couldnt add this content before you wouldnt have had time. So if you did have time, would you have added it to the game and it would be part of the 59.99 price tag? But yet, you release the content, which you just claim you wanted it to be part of the game but you had to wait. But yet you release it for 30 bucks. That makes zero sense. Its almost like they want to raise the price of gaming but know that wont go over so well so they disguise it in DLC. NO way i am paying the price of a used game for new characters.

[fanboysmackdown]

Why do devs even announce these pricey dlc packs before launch, are they that dense? Why not wait til the game's released a couple weeks or more to announce these gouging practices. It's like sending the horses out first at a parade.

[Tedakin]

MKX has a standard priced one and done Season Pass that gives you 4 characters and 15 costumes. Evolve has 90000 different things that add up to 200 dollars.

[ion666]

Hey remember back in the days when fighting games had a certain number of fighters in the arcades . When it was time for console release they added characters for free. Crazy right?

[Hoffmann]

Back when 6 of 26 characters were unlockables because online gaming was not a thing yet.

Good times

[mgszelda1]

Why not just make it the same cost mk9 was

[Dan50]

Waiting for the Komplete Edition.

[Deadpool616]

YES Dan50! That a way!

[Xavior_Reigns]

Only a matter of time before all games drop doing such editions. But for now, yep that's the way to go.

[Izzy408]

"DLC content can't get done in time for launch..." Ok; then delay the game a couple weeks and launch the game with the DLC content. But of course, as we already know, that's not the real reason you won't release the DLC with the game.

[lifeordeath617]

its sucks that the DLC characters have to be paid for. Not saying that you technically have to pay for it. But i believe that characters are the MAIN CORE of a fighting game. They should be free however that's my opinion. I'm not a developer so i cant really say much. they honestly could've pushed the game back another year so it can be finished. DLC should be costumes and extra modes or something!

[WilDRangeRfc]

I dont have a problem if its cosmetic items such as a Union Jack skin for a gun or costume(bought British Union Jack baseball cap in TLOUR online)but map packs,characters or actual content such as weapons that can affect the game are BS,dont buy it dont support it,I bought the season pass for Titanfall as I didnt mind because the maps that Respawn gave us to begin with were all excellent and plentiful and I thought they deserved it for the work they put in,COD do it and the maps you get are limited because they know people will buy the DLC maps thus no effort goes into the original maps,I dont buy COD DLC and after AW COD altogether

[WilDRangeRfc]

And Evolve can kiss my arse after what I have been reading PASS

[Der_Kommandant]

I'm pretty sure they should just rename Evolve, "DLC: The Game".

[Xavior_Reigns]

Pretty heated in here. Anyways just remember all you DLC defenders, be sure to thank yourself in the mirror when every single virtual round of ammo, gallon of gas, tire, leather, etc costs $2.99 or more. Also be sure to smile once games come with only one mode (even though they showed off 6 modes say at E3) and they cost $25.99 each on top of the $59.99 you already played. Don't forget health packs will also cost you $5.99 and your limited to only 2 - want more, you gotta pay $14.99 for an additional spot.

It sounds ridiculous but some of this garbage is already similarly priced in mobile games. Keep it up though with the excuses, eventually all of you supporting these methods will bring all of the above upon us.

I get it though, some of you don't know better since you started gaming in 2005 or later. But for you that have been gaming before I did in 1992 (I just turned 28) shame on you.