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Aaron Greenberg: DX12 Will Affect Xbox One Provided Devs Use It, Shares Updates On Fable Legends

Aaron Greenberg, marketing team lead across 1st & 3rd Party Game Studios at Microsoft has confirmed that DirectX 12 will have a substantial affect on PC as well as Xbox One.

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1060d ago Replies(5)
hello121060d ago (Edited 1060d ago )

OK lol even more prove i was right. It was so obvious this would benefit the x box 1 and the PC

PC and x box 1 are x86- using similar cores to run games and both the PC and x box 1 use directx11

Why would it not benefit the x box 1 at all? Directx11 area of problems would be the same for PC and x box 1!

BG115791060d ago

Must be true, Aaron Greenberg said so... /s

gfk3421060d ago (Edited 1060d ago )

No one said that will not affect the X1, but as Phil Spencer said DX12 will not bring a "massive change" to the X1.

http://www.dualshockers.com...

Having in mind that 50% is the MOST optimist gain for PC games (and in most cases will fluctuate between 0-50), it means that X1 will not have a massive gain from DX12.

Also, the CPU power is almost irrelevant... The future of gaming stays in the GPU and not the CPU. According to a Ubisoft benchmark the PS4's GPU power is 16 times more powerful than PS4/ X1 CPU power and almost twice than the X1's GPU.

http://images.eurogamer.net...

Thus, any performance gained by X1 from DX12 will not provide major changes - for example - in the overall results of the above benchmark.

Spid3r61060d ago

Yet the PS4 is showing big weakness in CPU bound open world games. The Frames keep dropping is all I can say. So the fact that Xbox open up another core and will reduce overhead on the CPU side spells bigger games for Xbox One. Not only that DX12 will be adopted fairly quickly thanks to MS giving away Windows 10. Which means again that the Console of choice will now be the Xbox One so they can port over games to the PC.

gfk3421060d ago

@Spid3r6

The weaknesses that you are mentioning are found also in the X1 version of the games.

As you said, such weaknesses are due to the fact that the games are CPU bound AND the CPUs (in both consoles) are weak.

Both consoles are built for GPGPU, namely the CPU task to be taken by the GPU. Why would both MS and Sony put a much more powerful GPU in the consoles (the PD4 GPU is 16 times more powerful).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Bear in mind the following numbers regarding the PS4/X1 power (please google if you don't believe me):

CPU:
- PS4 102.4 GFLOPS
- X1 112 GFLOPS

GPU:
- PS4 1.84 TFLOPS (which means 1,840 GFLOPS)
- X1 1.31 TFLOPS (which means (1,310 GFLOPS)

The above numbers are theoretical numbers, meaning the maximum value that each console could reach.

Having said that, DX12 WILL NOT increase the theoretical power of X1, but will ONLY help X1 to achieve this theoretical power.

In conclusion, even if X1 achieves (with the help of DX12) its maximum CPU theoretical power, it is negligible compared with the GPU power.

This is the reason that the future is for games that will be GPU bound (with the of GPGPU programming).

Foehammer1060d ago Show
rainslacker1060d ago (Edited 1060d ago )

@Spid3r6

Yeah, I saw the weakness in ALL ONE of those CPU bound open world games. That ONE game which was rushed out the door and was broken on release on both systems and the PC because of it. It's so obviously indicative that the PS4 has a problem because of that one game, and in no way does Ubisofts own incompetence come into play since moving AC to a yearly release schedule.

Here's a fun fact, GPU compute is the new thing. It's what both the X1 and PS4 were designed to do.

On topic

Just let the software tell how much improvement it will bring. At this point, everyone is just going round and round. If DX12 is awesome and brings 50% more power to the X1, great. If not, then so what? It's getting to the point where the only way to really tell is going to be 1st party games, and neither side will admit the other has better games anyways.

Azzanation1060d ago

It doesnt have to be major to be noticeable. DX12 will make a difference for X1 regardless of all your down playing. DX12 benefits multicore CPUs, its only works on Win10 devices and the X1 has both.

IGiveHugs2NakedWomen1059d ago

@Spid3r6

You do know that the PS4's CPU is specifically designed to provide support to and processing for the GPU. The CPUs on these consoles were not designed to run games exclusively, rather, these CPUs were designed to run games in tandem with the GPU.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 1059d ago
Nekroo911060d ago

Goddamit everyone knows it will benefit the xbox but consoles already have a low level acess API, pcs dont.

Thats why Phil Spencer said it could reach untill 50% performance boost but he was showing pc footage, and he said "it wont be a massive change on the xbox" 50% would be MASSIVE!

And dont even start with "even more prove i was right" with a Aaron Greenberg statment, hes probably one the most hated guys in the gaming industry because he is full of bullshit, or you forgot about his comments on the cloud, or even tomb raider exclusivity deal... when Phil said it was timed and even in the video for xbox games in 2015 it says "exclusive on xbox one holiday 2015"

Bigpappy1059d ago

Would you stop posting that misinformed junk? DX12 isn't just a low level API. Do you only read what others comment on N4G? Do you not get that it allows multiple cores to talk to the GPU at once? Do you not understand that this tech was a combined effort of the most prominent companies in hardware and software design (NVIDIA, M$, Intel, ...

christocolus1060d ago

I'm so glad to hear this confirmed once again. Fable legends is the first so i'm sure Halo5, TR, QB, scalebound, Forza6, Gears,Crackdown,Rares new ips,lionheads other project and a lot more will be using the new and improved win10 and DX12 api. Great times ahead.

DigitalRaptor1060d ago (Edited 1060d ago )

Depends on how "wrong" people believed you were, and what you were saying.

From memory, people were not saying it would not affect Xbone at all, but that it would not have a massive impact (as Phil actually confirmed and most sensible people believed) and that it would not help it catch up with PS4's hardware and the impact ICE team's progress on their own api. Phil didn't mention Xbox so much as PC being the benefactor the other day at the W10 conference, because he's furthering his stance that DX12 will not have as strong an impact on Xbone as on PC.

I think you might have a problem when it comes to "proving yourself right", because nobody was trying to prove you wrong in the way that you're trying to imply here.

More importantly, Aaron Greenberg is the LEAST trustworthy Xbox executive, so why you think this proves anything when it comes out of his lying, hypocritical corporate troll mouth is beyond me.

otherZinc1060d ago

I told one of my boys 2 years ago, after Mark Cerney launched a controller; that Halo 5 & Forza Motorsport will embarrass multiplatform developers.

Now Halo 5 & Forza Motorsport 6 will be 1080p 60fps later this year. Look out!

DigitalRaptor1059d ago

Halo 5? https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Forza MotorSport 6? I'm waiting for the downgrade. http://www.gamepur.com/feat...

You don't embarrass multiplatform developers with downgrades mate.

christrules00411060d ago (Edited 1060d ago )

The Xbox One is already a closed console. Developers have already been optimizing specifically for it. They have not found out how to use the full potential of the system yet and I expect improvements even without DirectX 12. However not a big jump.

The difference is with PCs there are so many different variations of parts that it is a ton harder to optimize for every different PC configuration. This results in PCs having to power through games rather then being completely optimized like consoles. DirectX 12 will help developers code to the metal easier on PCs and may help a bit with the Xbox One considering it'll help them learn to optimize the Xbox One better.

greenlantern28141060d ago

Read the second part of that statement, if the devs use it. IMO games that are coming to both consoles we will not see a difference. But games that are exclusively XB1 games will be better with it.
Because I don't see devs putting any extra time or money to make a game better one one console over the other, unless of course they get money from MS or Sony to do it.

Kal0psia1060d ago

Remember the question to developers and Phil were hardware specific, and they said no which makes sense because you can't boost hardware performance. But what "gamers" fail to realize is that Dx12 effect on XOne is software software specific with it's features sets and development tools.

So perfoamnce boost, no! But we will see some pretty cool stuff in games developmed specifiaclly for Dx12. No doubt Gears will be the first true Dx12 devloped game, or Crackdown with cloud compute. It's like Microsoft are actually using those state of the art resoruces in my opinion.

Gamer19821058d ago

Look at his choice of words. "devs have to make use of it." He knows fine well 3rd party devs who make non exclusives will not be making DX12 optimized games purely because PS4 does not support it. So they will make a game that runs on both consoles to save time and money on porting. Like now all 3rd party multiplatform games are DX11 compatible but don't run directly native because that would be a massive time hog. Thus to save time and clearly a lot of money they do a version that ports easily from one console to the other.

Its the same with the unique API PS4 uses too. Meaning 1st party games will outright beat any 3rd party game this generation just like with last generation. Look back at the ps3/360 generation for proof. No multiplatform game looked better than the top looking exclusives.

Also this is Greenberg to be fair the man who said MS couldn't just switch off the DRM remember?? Then when he got caught he said he doesn't really know anything about the hardware side really. So take that with a pinch of salt.

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 1058d ago
OrangePowerz1060d ago (Edited 1060d ago )

@KNWS I don't recall people saying it won't have any benefit at all, but it will be far less compared to PC because console games have a lot more low level coding done that already do what DX12 will do on the PC.

If the benefits are so big why did Spencer leave it out and only talked about the PC performance improvements? Instead of that the PR guys talk about?

I wonder when they finally get rid of Greenberg and MajorDbag ehm I mean MajorNelson.

RiseofScorpio1060d ago

MS didn't requisition a $3bn custom APU for nothing its clearly apparent that it was built for DX12 and Esram the XB1 is built for the future. But its obvious you won't believe that since you're a known hater.

pompous1060d ago

ummm, yes they did. They had to make it custom, which increases the price, because of the ESRAM band aid they
had to use. The ESRAM took up real estate on the SoC making it cost more to produce hence custom. So you can pretend all you want. Also ESRAM isn't some future proof concept, it's a band aid to fix the severely lacking bandwidth their console design has.

headblackman1060d ago

x1 cpu is clocked at 1.75ghz (add 50% more speed to it plus allowing each core to talk to the gpu)

(just for kicks and giggles) take a pc cpu that's clocked at 3.0ghz (add 50% more speed to it plus allowing each core to talk to the gpu)

the speed and access changed, but the hardware stayed the same (this is what phil was saying). the x1 still has a 1.75ghz cpu and the pc still has a 3.0ghz cpu, but they gained speed which unlocks the potential for the the cpu to feed the gpu more power then ever before. dx12 will allow the cpu and gpu to work to pretty close to its full potential (which has never been done before (EVER!)

OrangePowerz1060d ago (Edited 1060d ago )

@ Headblackman

Lol add 50% more speed to it. That statement is wrong in so many ways. The first one being that you can't add 50% more speed to the CPU via DX12. The speed wouldn't change, the resource managment would change making the cores of the CPU more efficient.

Console games use low level coding or the term you might know is coding to the metal. In that case the inefficient way DX11 handels multi core CPU usage is not a factor because you make your own code that makes sure the different cores are used properly.

The goal of DX12 is to have a more efficient use of hardware in the PC (similar to what AMD wants to do with Mantle) that's more like how console games use their hardware (unless they are lazy ports).

@Waluigi

Got all of that from Mister X? The ESRAM was put into place due to the RAM they use. The console is a multimedia device and therefore they had to go with that RAM to make it easier to use all of the Snap stuff, watching TV while having other apps open and so on because these processes are more CPU heavy instead of GPU. If it would have been built for the future they would have gone with a larger memory pool for the ESRAM or another solution without ESRAM. The ESRAM solution is a compromise between having all that non gaming stuff working and having to play all games.

I won't believe that because I know better than you and have more knowledge about things. I have the tendency not to believe in lectures from armchair "developers" when they throw stuff around they read somewhere on the internet that some random person wrote. In your opinion (irrelevant) I might be a "hater", but I would say critical especially regarding to baseless PR talk.

rainslacker1060d ago (Edited 1060d ago )

The increase in speed isn't speeding up the hardware. The performance increase comes from how fast or how much of the information can be processed at one time.

DX12 is a code optimization, not a hardware optimization, and it certainly isn't a firmware that overclocks the hardware.

DX12 is a API that handles how code gets to, and is subsequently processed, within the CPU itself. The CPU will process it at the same speed regardless of how it gets there. Allowing more cores to do work at any given time may speed it up some however, but not by 50%, and speeding up any routine up to 50% does not mean that the program in general will be 50% faster.

If the CPU has to add one thousand variables, it will do it at the same speed as before. Those one thousand variables may now get to the CPU faster, or may be able to output faster due to more efficient routines.

Also, each core could talk to the GPU before, nothing has changed there. All DX12 does is make it so they communicate independently. Not sure how much that will mean if MS wants devs to use the ESRAM though, since the CPU and GPU don't communicate directly...or at least that's not how the X1 was designed.

kickerz1060d ago

Major Nelson ain't that bad. He's like the crazy uncle lol. I would be mates with him.

Seafort1060d ago

Phil Spencer has already said DX12 will be primarily for PC gaming and not Xbox.

The Xbox One will not be greatly affected by DX 12 at all.

This is what Phil Spencer said,

"On the DX12 question, I was asked early on by people if DX12 is gonna dramatically change the graphics capabilities of Xbox One and I said it wouldn’t. I’m not trying to rain on anybody’s parade, but the CPU, GPU and memory that are on Xbox One don’t change when you go to DX12. DX12 makes it easier to do some of the things that Xbox One’s good at, which will be nice and you’ll see improvement in games that use DX12, but people ask me if it’s gonna be dramatic and I think I answered no at the time and I’ll say the same thing."

If you believe anything that MS troll, Aaron Greenberg, says there is no hope for you.

Wikkid6661060d ago

Everything in life is interpretation.

Will it help in development, yes.
Will it directly improve things, no.

Simple translation. Since the development process becomes easier... the developers will have more time to optimize the game. So in the end the game could very well have better graphics, etc. But there is definitely no special sauce here.

OrangePowerz1060d ago (Edited 1060d ago )

Spencer just undersold it to not give anything away to the competition. /s

1060d ago
gameon19851060d ago

But but Phil said, Phil was trolling you sony fans and that is fact. Any idiot with half a brain knew if they say the console was built from the ground up for DX12; there is no way in hell the Xbox would not benifit from it. I mean Damn, Phil is the same guy who basically Said Fack gears and then turned around and bought the ip.

rainslacker1060d ago

Meh.

It's at the point where I don't know why it matters. The whole, "Wait until XXXXX" seems to have been the mantra of X1 fan boys since before launch. It's rather funny since they call the PS the delaystation. You'd think after a year they'd realize not to pin all their hopes on the next big thing, only to be left underwhelmed when that XXXXX finally comes.

Let the games speak for themselves. Play the games that are out now regardless of DX12...they're still good games.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 1060d ago
DanielGearSolid1060d ago

The DX12 secret sauce is still a thing?

strangeaeon1060d ago

The term "secret sauce" is still a thing?

hasamalaha1060d ago

Yes, when every other month MS fan boys have something new that is going to save the day.

DanielGearSolid1060d ago

Since it's ever-evolving

Yea I would say the secret sauce is still a thing

JasonKCK1059d ago

I use salt in my sauce, it brings out the flavor.

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Spid3r61060d ago

Just because Xbox One was built with DX12 in mind. Its all about speed not about the size of the engine.

Moldiver1060d ago

Porche and lotus would like to have a word with you! lol

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