During the Windows 10 Keynote Xbox Division Head Phil Spencer introduced a video comparison showcasing the performance of the upcoming DirectX 12 API pitched against the current DirectX 11.
Dx12 looks good. So does that mean it will increase the performance and frame rate if it crashed or stopped on dx11 on the same pc specs or what?
It's a synthetic benchmark designed to show the shortcomings of the old APIs and how they've fixed that in the new one. Adding ridiculous amounts of draw-calls on a DX11 application will eventually choke it and slow it down, especially with a crappy CPU. DX12 removes that big draw-call bottleneck and allows the CPU to keep the GPU fed with data more efficiently. That's what going on here. It'll have much less effect on systems that already largely work around this bottleneck like the Xbox One does.
Thanks for the explanation.
That was a great description. Can I keep my ol 2500k due to dx12?
But what about the "Every CPU core talking to the GPU instead of 1 core at a time" benefit? Supposedly only 1 CPU core can talk to the GPU and now all cores can talk to the GPU at one time, wouldn't that make the 6 (now 7ish)cores in the CPU be drastically more beneficial than just 1?
This will be great for High End PCs but not for Xbox one
another coffin in the nail on having little impact on X1. @LOLbiasedMUCH Are you serious? You honestly think technology to use all cores dont exist unless DX12? There is already software, middleware exist to do this. Even Ubisoft talked about this. Time to accept reality.
gutzandpapercuts... thats the main benefit, or more specifically...that is exactly where the draw call overhead is reduced... with previous DX api's, frame culling was sync'd in a way that required a specific set of tasks to be completed before the draw call was sent to the GPU... mantle, and now DX12...get around that by somewhat unlocking this issue by arranging the rendering path in a way that every core can independently send draw calls to the gpu...the reason it can do this is simplified calcs for the cpu, more of a brunt on the gpu (more 'behind the scene' stuff is being calculated by the gpu, of which was traditionally handled by a cpu)...which is fine, as currently gpu's are WAY ahead of modern cpu's in terms of processing potential. This is precisely why mantle had some pretty big improvements on PC's with high core'd cpu's...but little to no improvement on cpu's with lower core counts, but high IPC figures...cpu's with high IPC numbers aren't stressed out by sync'd draw calls because they're blisteringly fast per cycle...but when a low IPC, high core cpu has the renderer split among 8 cores...its a major bottleneck...and mantle helped tremendously... TL;DR...For PC, mantle and DX12 are API solutions that allow a bit of a dated cpu to run a very powerful gpu, and get great results...without either API, a weaker cpu won't be able to feed a powerful gpu. for consoles, specifically the Xbox One?...be ready for a lot of marketing BS...both consoles already have very 'to the metal' api's, that is a fundamental advantage of a closed hardware system, and why the 'weaker' consoles continue to put out visuals a lot better than what the hardware would suggest...
so what cards are supported? my 550ti wont be i bet
the question is - when there will be DX12 compatible graphics cards for affordable price?
Oh Really? the nonbelievers will not like this at all. Keep up the good work MS.
Do we really need that? Keep it on topic. No need for fanboy debate, you are just asking for it.
This IS on topic! The topic is DX12 and what it can do vs DX11. Stop being an apologist.
Somebody is sensitive.
Oh am sorry, i didnt know the non believers were part of the topic. If he said Keep up the good work MS . I would not have said anything but he is asking for someone to troll just to prove his point. Why cant we just get along?
It already was part of the conversation, when looking at promised performane gains, there has been lot of skepticism from devs such as ice team and treyarch on what kind of advantage dx 12 would allow when it will launch in 2015 (edit first dx 12 games in 2015?). I am still not confinced but it should at least allow for easier cross platform development of apps and games in the windows 10 environment. Good news seems to be that dx12 is now available to the big game engines such as unity and unreal. edit : http://n4g.com/news/1488572...
@Charybdis Ice Team and Trayarch were talking about the DX12 performance boost for the xbox One, not PC.
Probably a dumb question but will I need to upgrade my Gefore GTX 680 to a DX12 card if I want to enjoy the benefits of DX12? I just bought my 680 and Im not too keen on upgrading my GPU again for quite a while
The GTX 680 is already years old at this point. You're going to need a DX12 GPU to take advantage of DX12.
It seems you dont know that nvidia cards from gtx 400 going forward will all support dx12, this was confirmed by Nvidia already!
That's completely different. Yes you can run DX12 applications on older cards, but you're not going to be able to take advantage of any of the features that require specialized hardware. It's simply a fallback. Much like DX11 GPUs had all the extra bits for tessellation and stuff, DX12-native GPUs will have extra hardware built in for DX12-specific tasks.
But the possible 50% increase will come out of lower cpu overhead in DX12, it will have nothing to do with DX12 gpu features, this is the first time that the performance will came from much better software, but to be honest, dx11 is just plain broken, broken hard. So don't worry, maybe gtx 680 is old, but after dx12 update it will have a second life and great performance.
"At GDC 2014, Microsoft and Nvidia have taken the lid off DirectX 12 — the new API that promises to deliver low-level, Mantle-like latencies with vastly improved performance and superior hardware utilization compared to DX11. Even better, DirectX 12 (and D3D 12) are backwards compatible with virtually every single GPU from the GTX 400 to the present day." http://www.extremetech.com/...
i.e you'll be able to use the DX12 API on older cards, but you still won't be able to take advantage of any of the DX12 hardware features, cus you still lack the new hardware. I'm curious why Rich would buy a GTX 680 in 2015, when there's so many better options out there.
@Pandamobile So maybe list for us those DX12 hardware features that will make that increase in performance. You are wrong, the performance increase WILL NOT COME FROM ANY DX12 hardware feature, it is pure software fix, yes fix, cuz dx11 is a broken mess. Nobody says "i'm rich" nor will buy gtx 680 in 2015, but many people have 680 so there is no point to change it if it is great and will support dx12.
the 680 is a beast, you should have no problem, just install windows 10 when it comes out and you'll be set.
All DX11 cards will be DX12 compatible, so no, no need to upgrade.
Yep as DX12 is a new way for windows to access the GPU directly without middle-ware so to speak (laments terms) So the GPU itself won't need nothing more thana drive update to talk back however really old cards probably could do with an update anyway ;). DX11 cards shouldn't have an issue at all. It's not like when DX10 came out that was a whole new API that functioned differently and graphics were rendered differently to perform better. Thats not the case this time around. Thats also why it won't have a lot of impact on Xbox. Which is probably a good thing as DX upgrades in the past although have made graphical improvements they have actually SLOWED DOWN your hardware..
You also need Windows 8 or later for dx12, I believe. Fortunately, I am on Windows 8.1 (will get 10) with a DX12 native GTX 970.
same here. Off topic those gtx 970's are amazing
It's neat that they're letting all Win 7 and up users to upgrade to 10 for free within the first year.
Like how they paused the Directx11 and kept moving the directx12 to show improvement
I couldn't help but laugh outloud after reading your comment. Not saying its true but it made me laugh....thanks man
It wasn't paused..
PC and x box 1 are more unified with windows 10 and directx12. Intel even showed weaker CPU's perform better with directx12 and guess what the x box 1 and PS4 have weak CPU's there is going to be a noticeable performance for x box 1. Playstation fans are falling into the trap directx12 will be more beneficial for PC they are going to be wrong on that. From that video i see about 5 to 10 per cent increase in visual quality its not a huge leap and i think that maybe thats what Phil was on about massive change. I don't see a huge leap in graphics performance from directx11 to directx12 going by that video. Mechanism i never said Sony would be unable to bring out something like directx12 in the future you must be confused? The problem it directx12 wasn't an overnight thing its takes many months if not years of coding. Sony would have to look at the code break it down and work at it could take a while to come out with something like it. Mechanism the only people wrong about sales were you guys i remember you boys touting 16 million around October and November and i said it was around 13 to 14 million around November. I was right (13.5 end of october) you moron. Sony supposedly added 4 million consoles in December only for that 1 month everyones numbers on here were entirely inaccurate but you guys are too dumb to notice when wrong.
No, you are just far too naive to realise that Sony aren't just going to sit around and do nothing with regards to similar updates.. EDIT: I must be confused, O child.. Once again, you are so naive.. ha.. You think Sony have been sitting around doing nothing? You think they have nothing in the pipeline with regards to updates? Even though these DX12 plans have been known for a long time.. Man alive.. Sony fans are going to be wrong huh? Are they going to be as 'wrong' as you were about PS4 sales not long ago, what a joke. You got proven wrong multiple times, not just in that sales instance, but in nearly every comment you make.. You are the most deluded person on here without a shadow of a doubt.. You really do live in a dream world.
@ Mechanism microsoft isn't sitting still with system sells, but they are still loosing that battle right now. this api (dx12) will be no different from that situation. sony's not a software company! now they do enough to get buy, but they are a hardware company and they rely heavily on the muscle of the hardware, so no, i don't think that anyone believes that they will just sit back idle (and im sure you've never heard anyone ever say that or even allude to that simple minded thought), but neither will microsoft and we both know who's better at this software game. just like people who prefer ps4 want people who prefer x1 to except and buy into the idea of microsoft not ever being able to catch up in system sales, people who prefer ps4 need to except that there is no way that the ps4 will ever catch up when it comes to superior software tools that allows the most for developers and to the consumers experience. but again i say, no here or in this world believes that sony will sit by in an idle position and not at least attempt to compete in the api area.
AMD are going to love DX12 as it means more cores get used and AMD are all about the cores..
When did he say it would only benefit PC's? Can someone tell me what exact time in the video he says that? I'd like to click right to that moment and watch it, cause' I think I missed it the first time.
Well in the past he clearly stated its PC centric. And they are thinking of ideas to apply it to the Xbox which will be a great idea to increase the frame rate and they performance.
that app that was running was some version of 3d mark which is for pc, but im pretty sure dx12 is coming to xbox one aswell, the fable legends dev said that the game is running on dx12 during the keynote, there you have it
good news!!!! will this improve xb1 graphics and performance also?
"Minimal" according to Phil, but who knows how minimal . For the disagrees :P “On the DX12 question, I was asked early on by people if DX12 is gonna dramatically change the graphics capabilities of Xbox One and I said it wouldn’t. I’m not trying to rain on anybody’s parade, but the CPU, GPU and memory that are on Xbox One don’t change when you go to DX12" http://wccftech.com/phil-sp...
Well its obvious gpu and cpu dont change, this is a new API, not hardware and could you please quote where Phil sayd the increase in performance will be minimal
It's always funny to see troll that don't have the bals to print the entire quote: "DX12 makes it easier to do some of the things that Xbox One’s good at, which will be nice and you’ll see improvement in games that use DX12, but people ask me if it’s gonna be dramatic and I think I answered no at the time and I’ll say the same thing.” Edit. so what the troll is trying to understate is that there will be a difference, just like Phil said. #dealwithit
Again for the naysayers above ^^ http://www.dualshockers.com... "It will help developers on XBOX One. It’s not going to be a massive change but will unlock more capability for devs" "People ask me if it’s going to be dramatic, and I think I answered ‘no’ at the time and I think I’ll say the same thing. But it will ease development – and especially for guys who are doing games on PC and on Xbox – because those two APIs, if they’re the same, then it’s obviously just less work for studios to manage the differences between platforms, for studios doing work on both PC and Xbox One." http://blogjob.com/oneangry... Antonyms for massive : little miniature miniscule minor minut Antonyms for dramatic : calm ineffective ugly unimpressive untheatrical weak You get the point :P
They don't change but how they work will. They will be able to be more efficient the cores will work together instead of now were the 1 st core dose about 70 percent of the work. The gpu will also be able to work in a similar fashion too.the Xbox 1 was designed with dx12 in mind there might not be a secret sauce but the games will look better and start to hit higher standards.
yes it will be a massive boost, 50% or more, you can safely say goodbye to the blurry mess that is 900p/792p/720p and bask in the beauty of the crisp clear image of 1080p
I think the 50% figure is comparing how DX11 performs when compared to DX12. Some people are really getting WAY ahead of themselves.
I'm curious to see how much of an improvement DX12 will have over DX11 in a general real game scenario. I've just ordered my new PC parts yesterday. Great to see that MS is offering the Windows 10 upgrade.
It been said by many expert that DX12 is going to give devs the power to render more objects on screen. I also see something else... DX12 will gives Devs the option to use more surprises in a game. Rendered Objects will no longer feel arranged. They can use any of the cores to render an objects at will.
I wish they showed this with Cloud on top so we could really have our minds blown. I really don't understand the Sony trolls rooting for this to fail. If Sony could magically flip a switch and make the PS4 10x better I WOULD WANT IT TO WORK. I wouldn't be able to buy a PS4 fast enough. But the Sony trolls don't care about playing great games, they want everyone else to be miserable. DX12 will a have meaningful, but not massive impact. It will be on par with Mantle on a low end AMD CPU. 20%-30% improvement in minimum framerates. People claiming Xbox already does all of this are clueless. No one is programming in a way that efficiently loads all 8 cores. Without DX12 that was almost impossible. It's the same for Sony, and yes they will implement some version of Mantle. And I hope it succeeds.
30% increase seems reasonable, best to keep espactaitions low. DX12 will do things on Xbox one, it's not about having a lower access( to the metal) apu. It's about cores, ultilizing the CPUs to talk to the GPU at one time. Ryse looked good and Forza Horizon 2 looked good, I wouldn't worry about Xbox one visuals after DX12. Fanbums, I await your hate...
Sorry to sound stupid but do all dx11 cards upgrade to dx12? Me no so good when it comes to pc tech talk.
Google is your friend. every single GPU from the GTX 400 to the present day will be backward compatible with DX12
Technically that's forward compatibility ;)
how about radeon 7870?
@Jaymart2k Radeon HD 7000 series and newer.
He mentions % 50 more power on PC side but the the impact will be much bigger on XO because the hardware already totally designed for DX12 and XO is a console which means a stable hardware that the devs will be able to focus better to max out the system. No doupt we will see dx12 games this year looking 2x better than Ryse like Quantum Break, Halo 5, Forza 6 and ROTTR. Once PS4 fans always quoting "but Phill said" now my turn. Now Phill saying thr impact is ridiculously huge. @Pandamobile LoL @ you clueless friend.Better come wtih something to suport your claim.I have my ones. http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... http://www.winbeta.org/news... so on so on while you have nothing "but Phill said" good luck with you!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/wat... Yeah no.
You can line up 50 programmers, hackers, and tech nerds right in front of people like HeMan76 and have them all explain in simple language why DX12 will not be able to do the things he thinks it will do and all he will say is "Nuh Uh."
Still so many choose to deny the benefit DX12 will have for X1. This is either ignorance or just denial. We've heard developers stating (Brad Wardell for example) that even consols are still only using one cpu core to feed the gpu at a time. And with DX12 all cores are shearing the load. How can this no be a huge benefit to Xbox? And that is just one aspect of DX12.
How about we all wait for the 1st dx12 games to release and then have this debate.
lol anybody heard of greeble ? looks like that what they used in the demonstration.
Oh god everytime we hear about DX12 and how its going to affect tablets and PCs people assume that means xbox too as Xbox games will use the tech.. Give it up already.. Xbox already has direct access to hardware which is what the point of DX12 is! Remember MANTLE?? Thats what DX12 is basically trying to do but AMD beat them to it and locked it to there own brand and now everybody can use it the main difference of course is games have to be programmed for one or the other. If you really have to read something thats not true into this to justify your purchase of your console then your clearly not happy with your choice are you?? I think N4G should ban DX12 articles from Xbox sections unless it specifically mentions it in future.. Unlike this article.
This has nothing to do with being a low level closer to the metal API. It's about efficiency in workload, and multi-threading, core utilization, etc... no matter how efficient the console was prior, it still dumped all of the workload onto one core. I believe this should bring about noticeable changes. Not massive per say, but noteworthy. They wouldn't implement DX12 on the One if it wasn't going to be beneficial to the console.
I wonder when the first DX12 supported games will come out
Witcher. Don't let anyone know I told you.