The gaming community over the past decades has faced an immense amount of change, once considered a fading culture today is the part of the main stream phenomenon. In today’s world this industry has become a giant that generates billions every year.
What percent of that percentage are the console or Steam/Origin PC adult women players? In other words, the ones that don't just play Farmville, Candy Crush, etc.?
This. Eliminate cell phone gaming from the equation and then give us the real percentage. Not that I have an issue with lady gamers. I just don't like skewed numbers.
Especially when leaving out certain info and the skewed numbers are used to paint misleading pictures.
I worked at gamestop the numbers aren't even close.
Exactly, no polls take this into account Ever since the Wii brought in casual gamers we've seen a rise in female gamers but it doesn't mean they actually play the games hardcore gamers play Yes they are games but in MY opinion you can't play on shit like them and call yourself a gamer. Not to mention a gamer is someone who is passionate about the industry, not someone who just plays on games to kill time or because they are bored. I just don't see why sites are so bothered with statistics to prove female gamers are on the rise. You can't force diversity. I'm sorry but what do they expect, gaming is a male thing, yes there is female gamers I'm not saying there isn't but it's like trying to say their is a rise in female footballers when it's mostly a male sport, they exist yeah but do you see league games on TV and people chat amongst themselves over what female team is better...no you don't. Why try to say everything is for everyone when there are some things out there which caters to a very select audience.
And here you see the typical GamerGater mentality. Whenever there's a GamerGate article, Foxtrot is the first there to champion the cause. Who's surprised he thinks gaming should be left to the boys and we should be always content with the status quo? I'm sure he thinks it all started to go downhill the moment women got the vote. To recap: "Gamer" is a male term. You can only be a gamer if you play male approved, "real" games. All other games that don't meet our definition don't count, and we get to say who's an actual "gamer" and who isn't. God forbid women are allowed in the clubhouse. They might want more games like Beyond Good and Evil and less where the female character's moves involve stripper polls. Personally, as a gamer and a father of a girl too young to get into gaming yet, I hope there is a wider variety of gaming options for her when she starts gaming. I'm told that makes me some sort of crazy feminist. Go figure. I'm not saying we need to censor games, I just hope there's more variety for her to choose from. There's no harm in that, despite what Gators think. It's called progress.
@darkride66 Don't do what you do to people on actual GamerGate articles and twist their comments so you can try and make them look bad. " Who's surprised he thinks gaming should be left to the boys " Did I say that, did I actually say females should not be allowed. Look what I said ***yes there is female gamers I'm not saying there isn't*** " I'm sure he thinks it all started to go downhill the moment women got the vote" Wow...just wow, that's low man. Why even bring up something like that, it serves no purpose. You see what I mean about you trying to make someone look like they've said or done something when they haven't. You are the person who defends con artists like Anita who is exploiting the gaming industry and trying to ruin it....YOU ARE SUPPORTING SOMEONE LIKE THAT and defend people like her at every turn. She's the person who said he wasn't try to "censor" out games yet guess what GTA V has been taken off shelves in Australia. I mean that's just the start and it's all because of people like you giving her support and trying to spin the anti GG side You know what I'm talking about GG and it's not even a GG article...thanks for bringing something up which has no bases to this article.
Oh, I'm sorry. I must have misunderstood your "gaming is a male thing" comment. Please explain to me how pro-woman you are with your "games shouldn't cater to them" comments. Tell me again how Anita Sarkeesian banned GTAV, Gator. Meanwhile, I'll go back to being an informed father who wants better games for his daughter so she can enjoy the hobby just as much as her Dad. Edit below: You're seriously saying I'm attacking a strawman when he flat out stated "games are for men and should stay that way", then went on to say Sarkeesian banned GTAV? Pray tell what did he actually mean then? You'd better go slow though. I'm old.
@darkride66 I said gaming is a male thing but that dosen't mean I said "It's a male thing so females can f*** off" did it. So it's now sexist for saying a hobby, sport, activitiy is gender orientated. Hair dressing or Nurses are mostly a female thing but you do get men who take up those practices, is it sexist to say it's a female thing...of course not because it is. Just like Gaming and Football they started off a male focused things and that's what we have today, there is females of course but what it started out as you can't deny. Where do you think all those "Those geeky guys and their computer games, how sad" lines came from Your just making yourself look silly mate, just stop. You support a con artist who is trying to ruin video games by exploiting the industry...your just as bad as her if that's what you want to support.
"So it's now sexist for saying a hobby, sport, activity is gender orientated." No. It's sexist to say that it should stay that way and you shouldn't "force diversity" by making games more inclusive to a growing female audience. Why downplay the idea of games become more aware of their female audience? Seriously, where's the harm in that? Explain to me how that's going to "ruin videogames" as you put it instead of building a bigger audience which is good for the industry?
***they exist yeah but do you see league games on TV and people chat amongst themselves over what female team is better...no you don't.*** But I do see a huge increase in advertising and football-related elements that focus on women. Women liking football doesn't mean they want a woman's football team. It means they like football. So, increase in female interest means an increase in elements that focus on women and not men. I think it's a very similar scenario for female gamers. I think a lot of things are done to aim at the female crowd. A lot of it is unnecessary since many female gamers already like what they have (I have a few online friends who are big into Borderlands and are currently loving the heck out of Dragon Age, for example). But, that won't change the desire for companies to try and draw in more females to the world of gaming how they can. Edit: Gotta love disagrees. Not only do I not support the idea that just because there are more female gamers that it means we need change core gaming as we understand it, I also mention that female gamers like what we like, and you still disagree. It's like it's an "All Boys Club or Nothing" with some of you. That's why so many people have so much trouble taking you seriously. You are acting just as extremist as you say Anita and others do.
@darkride66 I think you're misunderstanding the comment here. No one's saying females shouldn't be allowed to play games. It's just a fact that more males are attracted to hardcore games than females. Now in future we could have a new fact depicting a much more mixed demographic, or maybe not. But why don't we just let it go with the flow instead of trying to pull bogus statistics to prove women's relevance to gaming, because it shouldn't matter. How can you assume your daughter will even like gaming? You have all these plans here to introduce her to gaming and she may not even be interested. This is true for a lot of people including myself. Of all the girls I know, maybe 20% play games seriously, and their "seriously" usually means play Cod on their brother's accounts, etc etc. Obviously I'm not gonna assume all women are like that, but in my surroundings the fact remains that very little women play games seriously.
You disappoint me darkride. I used to highly value your opinion, but know you've proven you can't discern facts and use straw man arguments. Are you also pro harassment like so many other anti GGers are?
exactly, because then they use data like these to argue that AAA games need to be censored to supposedly be more inclusive. But most of the women are in a different market segment and may want to play casual, not AAA games no matter how PC they make them.
Damn I love women I think phone games are great introduction to gaming. Then they might crave better experiences after a while. The more girls the better imo. If I can find a bad girl who loves bloodbourne I will be in love for weeks!
Until she starts showing you up and trash talking you online with your buddies :P
Honestly, doesn't matter where they game. The fact of the matter is that the market will take more note of them where they find an increase in female gamers. It may not be on your typical console release, but they are still there and they have money to spend. And, just FYI, MMOs have become one of the things that is dominated by female gamers in the U.S.
A market is comprised of audiences. There are a lot of target audiences within gaming culture, the so called hardcore and casual. Age and gender are usually part of any games target audience at a production level. That isn't sexist, it's just the way it is, because different groups tend to like different things. Whatever the majority of the stated 36% here plays doesn't typically affect the games that a different demographic gets. Sometimes they affect each other, such as with micro-transactions, although that was just because it was successful in one area, so it got expanded. Despite all the complaining, I haven't seen a major change in hardcore content. It's becoming more realistic in it's presentation so groups are often just represented better. I don't think that had anything to do with any agenda driven movement, it was just a natural advance in game design to give better or different experiences.
My girl is a huge gamer. Im talking Dragon Age, Resident Evil, Mario, Monster Hunter, Persona, Gears ext. Shes starting Sunset Overdrive today. Sounds good and all, but trying to get some Evil Within in is hard right now lol.
Exactly because I mean my Mom plays Candy Crush but I certainly wouldn't call her a 'gamer'. She liked Zelda though.
Yeah, Farmville, Candy Crush etc don't count.
in that case you should be looking at what segment of gaming appeals to women, and developing it further. Not listening to demands that the whole of the industry be restructured to cater to them.
But where's the harm in making more games inclusive? Is Destiny any worse off because they thought of female gamers when making it, and invited Sarkeesian to speak to their team during development? Just as movies and television have seen female roles evolve over the decades, why shouldn't games as well to acknowledge the growing female demographic? Instead of segregating women to only playing "girl games" what's the harm in thinking of female players and drawing on their tastes as well when creating more mainstream games? Just like movies and TV, you'll always have games that cater to the male audience just as some cater to a female audience, but there's no harm in developers making games that are more inclusive of their female demographic as a whole. As I mentioned above, it's called progress. More inclusive games = a bigger audience. A bigger audience = a healthier industry.
The harm is in "asking" that female filters be applied to everything. Just as there are TV shows and movies that are made to appeal to only either men or women, there's no reason the same shouldn't to be true of games. But this article isn't looking at nuisances. Its only taking blind statics and trying to apply them broadly in order to create "inclusive" constraints. This at a time when the industry is far from healthy creatively.
See, this is what I don't think you understand, darkride. Unless they're trolls, there's not a person in gaming saying they don't want women in gaming. What we're saying is we don't want gaming at large to suddenly become more female focused. Make games that appeal to women. Include themes that appeal to women. But don't sop making them appeal to men in the process. Be it this article or Sarkeesian, the majority of folks aren't asking for inclusion, but replacement. A scantily clad woman is sexist, so even though that character is obviously not meant to appeal to women, she has to go because she doesn't appeal to women. People take issue with studies like this because they paint the picture that women are a more significant driving force in the industry than they are, that they make up more of the core audience than they do. Since the core is what sustains the industry, this distinction is insanely important. That doesn't mean women should be marginalized or not catered to at all. But just as the market at large doesn't follow the whims of gamers who love visual novels, neither should the industry bend to be overly more reflective of a female interest if they're not actually that large of a contingent. This can only be determined if the studies detail the types of games played by the two genders, how much they play, and how much the industry in general means to them. This last part is important, because anyone who doesn't really care what happens to the industry is a casual, regardless of gender; those are the absolute LAST people gaming should be changing to accommodate. If most women who play games fall into that category- and these studies never divulge that information- then why should the industry shift its focus to them?
@darkride66 I SO AGREE WITH YOU! I know it may be hard for people like Godmars290 to accept but many people don't find acting like a violent misogynistic sociopath to be especially "fun". The sooner we can leave behind games that feel like they've been inspired by angry doodles in an angsty teenage boy's notebook the better.
***See, this is what I don't think you understand, darkride. Unless they're trolls, there's not a person in gaming saying they don't want women in gaming. *** Spotie, check my comment above, #1.2.8 Notice how I say absolutely nothing about changing what we have at all? Notice how I say female gamers like what we play? Yet, notice the disagrees? These are the people you say that don't exist, but they do. In some way or form, there are people out there who aren't happy with any agenda that shows support of female gamers because, for some reason, they take it as an affront to what they know. So, while I get what you are trying to say, I see many instances where people defy this by their actions and disagreeing with anything that isn't just a full on "Let's Not Even Talk About Women" line of thought. Feel free to disagree with this comment.
Please read and consider Deadpool616. That in their interpretation of "inclusive" that many would be excluded and misjudged.
Do you know why we see that evolution in TV programming? It's because women are the primary purchasers in the majority of households. Because of this, TV producers make more shows with good female representation, so more women will watch those shows, then the stations can charge more for advertising. Other shows that are aimed at males still exist. Shows aimed at children, different races, different sexes all exist without much problem. Why does gaming as a whole have to be inclusive across the entire spectrum? Can't games just appeal to their target audiences, and the progression happen naturally? You say there's no harm in developers making games more inclusive, and I would agree. But why is it OK to shame the community because the games some people like to play aren't as inclusive as some would like them to be? Do those people just not understand that they can change things by playing the games that they think appeal to them, and let market forces decide the fate of what is represented in games? If a developer wants to make a game that appeals to a particular demographic, say women, then I say more power to them. If they decide not to though, that is not cause to discredit the developer, and call for boycotts or try to call out sexism. In the same vein, if 36% of gamers are women, and lets assume that that's the hardcore market, does that mean that 36% of women generally have no problem with the content presented? In that case, why do some groups think it's their right to speak about what developers should make to appeal to that 36%? If they want to say what needs to be done to appeal to the other 64%, but there is no reason to demand it. Let the publisher decide if they want to take the risk.
That's what publishers do, because despite seeming stupid, they actually understand business. Sometimes it seems like people assume all games have to appeal to all audiences without realizing that there are so many different audiences within gaming. It's not like it was 10 years ago when most gamers were males in their mid 20's to 30's. Now it's a pretty diverse hobby, with several different communities.
"they actually understand business." Yeah...can't really agree with that. Not when some idiot thought that COD should be applied to *everything* or that multiplayer shooters needed RPG elements. Nevermind the nonsense of prioritizing stock shares well over product quality and consumer satisfaction. Note I said "well" over.
Like I said, they make stupid decisions, but I meant more that their decisions are usually based on making more money, not really pleasing their customer base. The top execs at publishers are actual business men more than they're gamers. They understand market forces, target audiences, and how to market a game towards a demographic. They also understand that just because 36% of gamers may be women, that doesn't mean that that 36% buys hardcore AAA games, and that making a game to appeal to that demographic means that their expensive investment would likely flop since it wouldn't appeal to their core demographic. I'm not saying that they may not try to appeal to another audience, nor that they may not try to be more inclusive within their current AAA development, just that they know where their bread is buttered. It's a risk to try and move into something new, and until that risk is taken, and proven successful, nothing is going to really change that much. Maybe a few examples here or there, but realistically, we can't really say that all the SJW have really affected AAA game development that much outside a few examples here or there which are yet to be proven money makers.
I'd love to check out the survey to see their barometer of what determines these statistics. How long they play games, what kind of games they play...you know, what criteria is required for anyone to classify as a gamer. Too bad the link in the article that goes to the survey is broken, so as a result, this article's content is completely speculative.
Demographic info would be interesting, but I'm glad this is an emerging trend. It's probably more widespread than we think. I imagine it's under-reported, but this is great news regardless. The old boy's club stereotype gets old.
So what games appeal to women (in general)? God of War? GTA5? Uncharted? Tomb Raider? Final Fantasy? Candy Crush? Zelda? Mario? LBP?
Speaking for our site, we have several women on the team at the moment and have had plenty in the past. One of them is currently tearing through Dragon Age Inquisition and also loves Halo, among many others. Jenna prefers more adventure-type games, but also a good strategy game. It's stereotyping to suggest that most female gamers only play social and casual games. Female gamers have always existed, and they always will.
Totally agree. Where do people live that so few women are gaming? I admin several Facebook gaming groups and there are TONS of female gamers.
Thing is, the inclusive argument is being used to constrain games like Halo and God Of War. Nothing is stopping women from playing them, especially GOW since aside from Accession are SP, yet if the people presenting the argument had their way those games would not exist. People who enjoy those types of games would be excluded in the new inclusive world they want.
I knew a female gamer who completed RE2 Hunk mini game. Much respect because that was hardcore to complete. The sad fact was that she was better than me @ RE2 LoL
GEARS OF WAR? Would hello kitty move units? Seriosly a super realistic sims game mmo would have more women buying gtx 980s! Lol I would to see more hardore gaming girls.
Most females I know love most of those games.
BBC ran a study finding 40% of MMORPG gamers were female, which is pretty substantial. Anecdotally, when my gaming friends who are women are talking about playing games, it's usually WoW, CoD, Destiny, and Assassin's Creed... so basically, the biggest and most marketed games out there. If you want to get into tabletop games, they play Magic quite a bit. Not surprised at Dragon Age either, CP. Plenty of DA:O fans out there who are women.
I am sure the figure is on the rise, gaming is becoming more mainstream every year and it stands to reason that the more mainstream it becomes the more varied the userbase will become. My daughter is 18 and she plays PS3 and PS4 games regularly however her tastes differ a great deal compared to my 15 year old son. Story is the primary factor in determining her interest with Heavy Rain, Walking Dead, The last of Us and Uncharted being her favourites. I think that as story telling continues to improve it will continue to broaden its appeal to female gamers along with more and more girls being raised around games by parents who game as a primary choice of entertainment. Having said all that, I do suspect that the figure in this article is including anyone who plays CandyCrush on a mobile device as being a gamer......but then, who am I do decide what a real game is or isnt. The bottom line is, the more mainstream gaming becomes the wider its audience and revenues become and the stronger the medium as a whole becomes......I would love it if my wife was a gamer instead of watching her shitty soap operas and Xfactor of an evening :)
Nice. Also, I certainly hope I'm still a gamer if I play Ridiculous Fishing or Threes or Hearthstone, because those and other mobile games are freaking great.
29% of which are casual, so we know at least 29% of gamers are casual. Good information! I wonder how we can find the casual male gamers? I suspect homosexuls are often casual, as well as any elderly. I suspect nearly half of gamers are casual based on this alone. Oh, wait, I'm going to be called a troll or worse for my "unfounded" opinions. Oh no!
No, just offensive and ignorant.
I suppose you think all gay people like interior decorating and musicals? Don't be so ignorant.
Go, women of gaming, go!
there was a whole bunch of article before saying it was 50% so which is it. and I'm sure most of them are casual gamers.
about 50% of gamers are female, not all of them are adults though. there are girls playing too. those that haven't been driven away by those claiming gaming is a boys hobby and as girls they're not real gamers that is.
funny how when there's an article criticising gamer gate the first person to always bleat that gamergate isn't about the boys club mentality, is also here claiming gaming is a boys club and women who game are just playing casual games and don't count as real gamers. hypocrisy eh? never seen that on the internet. >_>
it's not hypocrisy if its true, men put way more hours into video games then most women. https://www.youtube.com/wat...
@hazelamy Pay no attention to them. They're all so glib. They'll never understand how being in their stupid boys club is only hurting gaming for everyone. It doesn't matter what people play. I don't care how fun or not fun the games are. That doesn't matter. All games could be not fun for all I care. What matter is people are playing it. They're all ignorant hypocrites, I simply can't stand it.
Let's see. I'm a male, and I'm looking at buying a "hardcore" AAA game, and people claim these statistics as their reasons that games need to be more inclusive, then yeah, the type of games that those in that percentage plays actually does matter if it's going to affect the hardcore AAA game that I want to play. If a AAA game is being made to appeal to the angry birds/candy crush crowd that plays games for a few minutes here or there, and doesn't explore the deeper experiences out there, and that has a negative impact on the experience of the hardcore AAA game I'm looking at, then it does matter 100%. It's not hypocrisy to express concern over it, or even to say how the assertions made based on these statistics are not representative of reality, it's just saying that I have a voice as well, and I don't like it being marginalized by what this very article admits is a minority within the community.
so the old "aren't we all gamers?" line that's bleated out whenever anybody tries to create a group for one minority or another is just bull? not that you could call female players a minority. it's staggering the hypocrisy in the gamer "community" that i can't stand. a story about a woman's experience in gaming shows up and people are all "we're all just gamers, we're all the same" yet a story comes out about how half of gamers are female and the bleating is now "but girls only play casual games, they don't count as real gamers" but no, they're only the same when it suits you. are all those female gamergaters just playing casual games as well? what would they think if the most vigorous supporter of gamergate here is also the same person who claims that women and girls who play games are just causal players and don't count? when any suggestion females in gaming are treated differently, you lot claim they're not, they're just the same, when there's a suggestion games need to better represent the women and girls that play them, suddenly they're not real gamers, it's a boys hobby. i really don't know what i hope to achieve with this, it's not like i'm gonna convince you lot. you're in the right, women are both part of and not part of gaming, depending on if its defending gaming from accusations of sexism or actually acknowledging women and girls play games as much as guys do. you know. i just realised something i think that might be it. maybe it's actually all about ego. could you be afraid that a girl might be as big a gamer as you are? is it just insecurity? or is it the old, girls invading the boys club, thing? either way, you're on the losing side of history on this one. women and girls play games, gaming is never going to be, just for boys, again. this invasion of women you're all afraid of and are desperate to stop? it's already happened, we're already here. just picture that scene at the end of invasion of the bodysnatchers.
I really think you're letting this whole thing get to you too much. First of all, a woman relaying her experience in gaming and the market demographics of female to male ratios are two completely different subjects, so there is no hypocrisy. The hypocrisy card is played way too often, and it's a cop-out to just avoiding making a solid argument. No, not all those female-GG are casual gamers, but 36% of all female gamers are not hardcore gamers. I'm personally not saying that women don't count, I'm saying that when it comes to the AAA experience, that causal gamers shouldn't be the target audience for those AAA games. You're not breaking down the target market within the marketplace that games exist in. You're making your arguments based on the assumption that everyone that plays games, plays all the same kinds of games, or plays every single kind of game, and that's just not the case. I've been in pre-production sessions with producers, and trust me, target audience is a huge thing. If we're making a causal mobile game, we don't target the hardcore AAA gamer, and more often than not, the target audience is said to be players between the ages of X-Y who like -insert genre here-. Sometimes it's broken down into gender, but not as often as you would think because it's PLAYERS that matter. Believe it or not, publishers want their games to appeal to everyone within a demographic, and believe it or not, there are women who enjoy some of the same things men do. Women are certainly part of gaming as a whole, the criticisms in this thread are more to do with the fact that there is no breakdown of what the numbers mean, and where they lay within the types of games we like to play. It's a statistical fact that male players play longer than female players. What this infers is that male gamers tend to be more into the hardcore games which provide the kind of experience that would compel them to play such long hours. Games were never really a boys club. Society put that belief into people's heads, but I've known plenty of female gamers since the NES days. They aren't uncommon, they just didn't go out of their way to advertise it...but neither did many male gamers. Gaming is becoming more mainstream though, and women are part of that...apparetly 36% part of it. No one is trying to keep them out of any kind of boys club. What I see is gamers trying to keep out casual trends from their AAA experiences. So while it may seem like some kind of attack on women, the truth is is that when it's a segment of a rather vitriolic feminist group who are using claims that women make up a huge market of gaming so they should be catered to, it's just natural to want to question if we want what is part of that percentage(the casual game) to make it into the hardcore community. You've been on this site for a while. Outside of trolls, have you ever felt that no one wanted you here because of your gender? Isn't it a bit presumptuous to assume that gamers want women to stay out of the community when there are quite a few female users on this site? Aren't you just classifying the entire community under one umbrella instead of just looking at individuals? Also, stop being so dramatic. I swear, I used to enjoy having discussions with you, but now everything is so contemptuous with your arguments.
Most of which could easily be MLG Flappy Bird contenders! I hope more women indulge in gaming, and no doubt with the amazing storytelling trend in games will open to more audiences!
Gaming rules! I myself have a 360, ps3, ps4 and 3ds. I love rpgs action adventure games and shooters ^-^
I don't see how this is even close to a surprise
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