DriveClub's launch was awful and Sony's excuse is even worse.
"Layden said that “you can’t effectively test” a game like DriveClub, which is a ridiculous claim. All you need is a proper open beta to adequately test the back-end server infrastructure. For example, Destiny had an open beta which had over 4 million participants." So...Destiny, the game that threw insect labeled error codes at launch? The game that was unplayable for some due to the net code issues? Great example. Hahaha! Throw The Crew in there too!
This story is two weeks old. http://ps4daily.com/2014/11... “In the development cycle, we try to do all things. In the development cycle, we try to test against every possibility. We have a QA team, we have a QA plan. You do a beta test, you scope against that. But now, in a connected world, you can’t effectively test in your house or in your beta group what it means to have 50,000, 100,000, 200,000 users hit your service. And the guys are struggling with that. It’s throwing up things they had not anticipated.” Whoever wrote this cherry picked from Layden's original statement in an attempt to create a silly flamebait article. DriveClub servers are up and running and the free PS Plus Demo version still isn't out. Get over it.
He is right... you can gripe all you want.. but it's hard to account for all the points of failure in a massively asynchronous environment. When you argue against his points you only prove how little you know of software development...That's why so many games have these same issues. Network games are very challenging when you go outside the normal templates and attempt to do something new.
Sounds like you are trying to provide justification for game that shipped extremely broken. And you would like us to get over a feature for a service not being available over month after it was supposed to be available. We as consumers should not "get over it". Sony has money. Sony has time. Sony has better IPs than driveclub. Sounds like a poorly developed game that we won't even get the promised plus version of in 2014(originally planned for 2013). Many complaints in the gaming industry are illegitimate. This complaint is very very legitimate.
Most Beta tests lately are just demos anyway.
I love how people on here throw ms under the bus for any little thing but will twist and distort something as flubbed as driveclub into something only minimally inconveniencing or deflect onto some other title that was also broken as if to justify a horrible experience. That launch was a freaking train wreck even after a year long delay and the apologists should just accept that sony doesn't nail it 110% of the time. No one does. Just like the MCC launch was a train wreck too. i like my xb1 and my ps4 but i won't defend either one of them passing off a polished turd as gold. Do any search for driveclub on the web and about 80% of the results will confirm how awful it was to some degree or another. I have friends that worked on that game and even they know. They knew before it launched.
Rubbish... DriveClub on Day 1 was far too broken to sweep it under the carpet of 'hard to account for all possibilities'. 1. They could have called the PS+ version a Beta, and got data that way 2. They could have released a limited open beta They didn't. They did a small internal beta test. And they probably ran synthetic tests. Even Bungie, who did their massive beta test for Destiny still had a few Day 1 problems with login queues. These days if a dev wants to release an ambitious online game - they need more than a behind closed doors beta run through their QA dept. The debacle with this game has made me wait until the PS+ version launched so I can gauge the quality for myself.
@IGiveHugs2NakedWomen Whilst I understand every possibility cannot be tested, there are many tools to automate a lot of tests..(The dev team use them in my job) And a beta will test the immediate back end infrastructure due to the number of requests etc.. An open beta might have provided enough capacity to show some of the bugs, not all. You cannot justify a broken game on day 1, when many games have betas and launch significantly better. GTA V had no online for the first month (And probably still doesnt have hesits), but when they launched online it did work. Destiny launched well.
They should have had an open beta for the game and then they would have found all the issues well in advance. Same thing could be said for Halo: MCC as well, even though their issue was mostly with the code and not really the servers. Still, Driveclub was a complete disaster and what's worse, we never got the PS+ version to try, even with just the single play modes. Completely sucks.
b-b-but Destiny!! Right, because other games having problems totally justifies DriveClub being a broken mess.
The point . You missed it. I bet you hear that a lot.
Haha. Someone's upset that they're being called out for their fanboy drivel, huh? :)
Yes there really is no excuse for this kind of shit both Sony and Microsoft should feel ashamed that they took peoples money for driveclub and Halo and release unfinished broken games. They both should of had open betas, these are first party flagship titles ffs not some 3 man indie deved first release. Anyone defending broken releases should be bummedinthegob.
Wow, it went over your head... His point is the article bashing on Driveclub not having an open beta to fix its issues before release, while comparing it to Destiny's open beta which had 4 million participants, which after release, the game had connection issues and NAT compatibility segregating the player base a lot, for a couple of weeks. Which was the point of Dramacydal the point which went right over your head, because of your fanboy point of view.
destiny's online issues are nothing even remotely close to driveclub's mess and i imagine destiny has and will continue to have more players online. even if we just compare ps4 numbers.
@Mega24 & @Dramacydal I think the point is that even when you have a massive open beta you still can have issues, at least Destiny's issues were to a lesser degree which is probably due to them actually having the beta. Driveclub didn't have a beta at all and look at how much more of a mess that game is. Get it?
Yeh great job picking part of what he said and try to bash Sony, bottom line is servers are back up for majority. Free psn edition should be out there is no excuse for Sony. We should blame a company when it's needed. Also real journalists gives the whole interview not cherry pick what he or she likes to mend their own agenda Some of the biggest game in next gen have struggle with server issues and games even struggle when they are single player games like AC:unity BF4 struggled for months man Halo MCC still struggling Destiny at launch had issues GTA5 at launch and heists still missing Now drive club Get use to having games not launch smoothly because it's true next gen, release a game have the paying consumers tell you what the problem is than fix it and say sorry while charging for season pass That's why it's better to wait at least 3-4 weeks and let the game be fixed. Because none of the gaming sites have the guts to call out a major release in fear of damaging their relationship with the publisher
I dunno if Shawn Layden knows how games work.
Honestly I miss Jack Tretton. I just don't know about Shawn Layden. Maybe he can at least learn to not say anything unless he's certain he's right about it.
Tretton was awesome but the difference IMO is Tretton was a suit with great passion for the product he worked for whereas Layden seems more like a gamer. Both are pretty cool IMO.
tretton really was awesome. layden on the other hand comes off as kind of a sleazeball like a lot of these higher up suits do.
The _Infected Man I am telling you we all miss uncle jack, he knew how to connect with consumers. I remember after psn hack he handelled that whole situation at E3 very nicely
I don't think you know how the infrastructure behind games works. To be fair, most of us don't but most also pretend to know. Have you ever deployed software to a mass group before? Now, I don't have any experience with PSN/XBL infrastructure or an infrastructure like DriveClub, but you are ALWAYS going to run into some issues when you deploy to so many end users based on a smaller sample, even if say you tested with 500,000 users and production was 1M, you could still run into unforeseen problems. Would it have helped to do an open beta? Sure. Did the studio behind Driveclub test inadequately? Apparently so. But, with that said, it's not an easy task and I wish people would stop thinking the problem is always as simple as "You didn't do enough prep." or you "You rushed the product." Disclaimer: I have not played and do not intend to play DriveClub so I have no bias for/against the title.
I work at a software company, and I agree with what Layden says. You can do all the careful planning in the world for a release, QA everything that think can go wrong, and then when we put the software out there it might break in a way that was completely unexpected, which will leave us scrambling for a fix. And our software isn't as complex as modern games, and only has a fraction of the users. It's not easy- QA must test and retest the same things as the code is being developed, looking for regressions. It's nearly impossible to test every scenario that can happen in a game, let alone retest them all frequently as the code develops. QA has to develop test plans that everyone thinks will cover the important things. This means it's possible and not uncommon to have test plans that miss important things. In the case of DC, it sounds to me like the net code they wrote doesn't scale. That means they can't simply throw more hardware at the problem because it's bottlenecked. They must rewrite it to get rid of the bottlenecks. Not a quick or easy task. I know these sound like excuses to the general public. But it's the way it is. All these games are shipping broken for a reason.
I don't think people will ever be able to relate. I understand people expecting games to work since they pay $60 for the game... But it's like buying a MS OS RTM and expecting everything to work flawlessly. Buyer beware.
uth11: I work with software development as well and I can tell you that yes, odd things do happen, but there is a level of comfort and trust you have in your code. It isn't completely unknown. It isn't as if they were employing some crazy @ss new game. In comparison, there are games that essentially releases to 10x the amount of players with far less nascent issues. There are also issues of: * just coming clean about not doing a good enough job * poor communication * slow fixes On top of all this, Sony continues to sell DriveClub at discounts to pad their sales, and witholding the promised free PS+ edition I have been waiting for. Even if they release it now, I would have already been over it. I was somewhat upset with Halo:MCC, but at least that game worked. It just had slow matchmaking after the first day. MS continually fixed it, had clear communication fixes where being done, and accepted fault for it.
@uth That's totally wrong on almost every level. The fact is, had they done an open beta, the "1 in, 1 out" infrastructure issue would have been noticed. What we've been told is that it's far deeper than simple scale of server issues. They said it's rooted inside the codebase forcing players in and out in a single file line. Again, that is something they WOULD have caught if they did a proper beta. Secondly, weeks ago, they said they were deploying new servers. The problem is, they've stated from the beginning it wasn't a server load issue, it was the codebase itself. So the problem is, it can't be both. Like you said, the way it was explained is that it's not a scalable issue you can brute force through. But if that wasn't the problem, then why would they need to deploy more servers? It's a broken problem in most likely more than one specific aspect. Obviously it's a codebase problem itself, but until that is fixed, nobody knows what other problems may occur as well, once it's fixed. Fixing one problem does not immediately make it become less vulnerable to others. 2 months after launch and we're still unsure of all the fixes and when they're coming.
“you can’t effectively test” a game like DriveClub" - President and CEO Shawn Layden Ok so that's a pretty lame excuse, but ok, let's say that's true.... What's the reason why even a Month later it still doesn't work??? Why is the game still broke right now? “Challenges” still don't work.. :( .____........___... .____||......||.......|___|| ||.........___||............ ||
Completely agree. You can't test a game like this..so just release it to the public and hope for the best? That's not a good strategy.
Not to mention they had an extra year to test/polish the game.
Yeah, they delayed because it wasn't finished and needed extra time to finish and test and it still came out broken. Probably needed an extra year but at that point nobody would have interest in the delayed launch game since Gran Turismo is said to be on schedule to release next year.
So why havent we seen the PS+ version yet??
Because they are completely redoing half of their server code? They have pretty much confirmed this via tweets and facebook. I have no idea how you could have missed it.
In my opinion they should polish it up and release as a free title for plus. That would be a good compensation for not sticking to their promise in my opinion
WTF does a server code have anything to do with the PS+ version?? I think its a BS trick they tried hoping some people couldnt wait for the PS+ version, then went and bought it retail.
It was a programming bug that prevented players from accessing online. They thought they could fix it with a day one patch but that obviously didn't work so they had to reprogram a whole portion of the game. Same thing happened with AC Unity.
Evo Not having an open beta for DC isn't the only problem because there's plenty of DC players online right now to perform the beta test. Its been about 2 months since DC released in stores so it should've been fixed by now. I think there's more to the DC connection problem than we know. on the flip side, My only guess, to the long wait is that Sony wanted to surprise us on their anniversary by releasing DC. I could be wrong. we'll see what happens.
Or they just stalled the plus edition to raise sells...? I do believe this game stalled for some reason. That online issue excuse is hard to believe. We r not on the 90'. Online gaming is not new.
Honestly, enough about DC. I have been playing online almost flawlessly for a MONTH. For the love of christ please stop whining about this game!
I agree it's a bad excuse. I do wish it had a perfect launch, but sometimes that just dowsn't happen. However, I still love playing Driveclub, and I still believe Evolution is a good development studio. I am excited to see what they're bringing to Driveclub in the future and what their next project will be.
I don't doubt Evolution is a good studio, but DC is not helping them in any way. I am skipping their games for some time untill they became reliable again. After all games do cost money, and I feel I can put my money on a safer bet.
Big Sony fan here but i agree, that excuse is simply dumb and inexcusable!!!!! GT that sold a gazillion on ps3 and was online didnt have all these issues and it was a fluctuating 60fps and 1080p but still looked good (obviously not as good but damn it was on ps3 hardware)
The don't have to test anything. Sony are selling millions and are hardly lifting a finger.
Same author wrote pretty much the same article like 2 weeks ago. Looking for hits much?
Release PS+ version with the online component disabled so we can still at least enjoy the single player. But then again there's something I'm sure i dont know about.
What they mean is you can't effectively test for a game like drive club when you don't want to because it costs too much like properly safeguarding psn. As sad as it sounds Sony is finding a way to let the biggest lead in a console race get in their way. Way to suck Sony
I didn't want to comment but... Really? (Cue to video clip of "you wouldn't let lie would ya!?" Off a old UK TV comedy called Vic reeves big night out)
what a shame ay , very lame answer
I am an Xbox One owner, and for a while i believed all the negative hype surrounding this game. So I went to Best Buy to pick up Sunset Overdrive, and I start to play to PS4 demos in the show case. Infamous was boring quick, but Drive Club not only kept my interest, but gave me a feel of nostalgia from GT in some ways of realism. And I noticed the interior of the car looked better than Forza (detail wise). Sure a lot of promises like dynamic weather were unfilled, but from a single player perspective I honestly enjoyed it more than Forza 5 (not FH2 tho). If they can fix all the online bugs, this game really might go places. Especially considering that it had a 999% sale increase as of Black Friday.
If drive club was a ms product all the gloating ego's on here would be bashing it to death. Flip flopping at its finest lol
Stop being a deluded MS fanbot.... If Driveclub were an MS product, it would get a FREE PASS, just as Halo:MCE did... Barely a skerrick of scrutiny thrown it's way, yet, Driveclub, which released before it, IS STILL being attacked CONSTANTLY. Fanboys, regardless of sides, are so delusional... "oh, this is a pro-Sony site".. "oh, Sony gets a free pass"... blah, blah, blah......"Wii-U is dead".. blah, blah, blah... Get over it.... ALL THREE consoles have there merits, & all three have MANY exclusive reasons to buy them right NOW, & will have even more in the future. Driveclub had some terrible issues, BUT, there have been a sh1tload of games, over the past few years that have been plagued with better, samely & far worse faults & glitches...... Yet, Driveclub has copped SOME OF THE WORST criticism of them all...It would be nice if EVERY GAME, released 100% glitch, fault free & perfect, but that would also mean we'd ALL be living in fairyland.. Games these days, release UNFINISHED, UNTESTED PROPERLY, more & more so... BF4 is a great example that had online issues FOR MONTHS & MONTHS & MONTHS, hell, probably still does... I wish I could buy a game & KNOW that it would be pretty much glitch free, or very low on the spectrum, & at the very least be more than playable....But that is just not a given anymore... What I do know about Sony is, that they will learn from this mistake, & try to not commit the same sin against there consumers again, as they know how much it can hurt them & sales of there games. And the fact remains, Driveclub was still playable from the get go, OFFLINE...and is a great little racing game. I know I have NO REGRETS in purchasing it, & am glad it is part of my collection....and I say that, with the added fact that I was very skeptical of this game & concerned it wouldn't be worth it salt....I was disappointed I wasn't getting another MS, as I LOVED that series (best racing game EVER, thus far still along with PS2's Burnouts & Daytona).... My concerns were alleviated when I actually played the game though... Great title.
If there's one thing I've noticed about X1 and Microsoft it's that they don't get a free pass on anything this generation. They even get ripped to shreds when they do good things.
Delayed 1 year and still came out a complete mess. I wont support evolution from here on out. Will not purchase another game from them
Still waiting for my refund... This game is such a mess I hate it. I hope Evolution catches a wake up after this disaster.
I LOVE the game. Single player alone is amazing! Those who haven't played it and love driving games are missing out. At least get a friend to play share it with and see what it's all about.
Sony pushed it out the door because Ms had the upper hand in the racing game department. In my opinion.
Oh yes , more cry baby articles about DC please. We haven't gotten enough of those. The most overblown issue in gaming.
Why is DC still doing head lines? I say that is nothing but a stunt to raise sells that miserably backfired at the game. Game was so hyped before release, I think they try to stall the plus edition to get on top of the wave. DC is a fun game to play. Players are (including me) just sore cause they didn't get what was promised. Me? Nah! I played the game at a friend's house day one and buggy online kept me from going to nearest store to buy it. I'll get it later, way later when I'm done playing my games on queues. I wish I had done the same w LBP3... another fun game to play riddled w bugs everywhere. Sadly I did get that one on day one. Should have put my money on GTAV instead.
You claim it's broken because it's online. as a single player game IT has what is needed. Spoiled brats don't stop to think. "beta testing your game helps but that's more p.r then break proofing it". playing online doesn't mean you don't get issues. The pc started online and great games still have issues,g I think wait a minute yep patches why would they use them? hmmmmm. so get over yourself any game that has to be patched after it is launched, is only a beta being refined, so stop complaining about something thats beyond you and don't play the game. Oh wait play the game you might enjoy it if your not to busy writing on the internet.
So any game has to be patched after release? In other words, you r cool buying a broken game and just expect the game to be fixed, AFTER u paid for it? No. How about they fix it first, then they got to see my money. And what about people who do not have internet? Like soldiers on deployment? So they have to suck it up because is the norm to "patch a game after release"?
If someone didn't have internet access why would they be concerned with the online portion of a game?
What about games w broken single player campaign?
DC is awesome and I love it - people get over yourselves and just relax. Nothing is perfect - look at HALO MCC having online issues...who would have seen that coming?!?!?! We are gonna see alot of this this gen cuz companies are in a hurry to get their games out and online patches day one are the norm now for some reason.
you bunch of sookie sookie lala's, stop all your fricken crying, the game was only broken for online for a short while (big deal, you cry about a great racing game that you cant play online with your make believe mates, put your controller down for a day and go outside and kick a footy around and have fun with real mates and be bloody patient, as for the biggest sooks of all time crying about something they haven't got for free yet, wheres a facepalm when you need one
Why keep harping on about Driveclub??? Dayum!!! Never have I seen a game dumped on so hard! People even complained about it selling tons of BF bundles??? We all know how much of a shamble it WAS...but it';s mostly fixed now. Just need to get challenges/weather in and it's pretty much done! Not making excuses for Evo/Sony because it is pretty poor tbh, but so many articles about a game almost 3 months old? #restgiveit!
It's the best selling next gen driving game title so every bits of negativity deserve to be exploited.
Maybe I'm being too uncritical or a Sony Pony (LoL), but I see Drive Club as being a work in progress. I'm sure a ton of lessons will be learnt from this (launch disaster), but I genuinely believe this game is significantly improving & will continue to improve both server wise & gameplay wise also. Vehicle/track/weather ect.
I'm really getting sick of this crap, so many new games are released broken and its getting to the point where I may just not buy games at launch anymore. I still can't progress in Little Big Planet 3(PS4) because it crashes every time I try to load a stage in the first world.
If there ambition is exceeding the technological or team's knowledge limits then they need to reign the game back in. At the end of the day it would be absolutely disgusting for any company in any other part of retail to send a product out that simply doesn't work half the time. Can you imagine the iPhone 6 that couldn't connect calls 50% of the time, or text messages only worked 30% of the time and it needed a factory reset every 2 weeks to make it more stable? People would put lawsuits against them for selling a product that is not fit for purpose. If a TV was produced by Samsung that would randomly turn itself off every 20-40 mins and not come back on without a 30 second delay would ruin the company as people shunned it. But when it comes to a game that struggles to cope with what it is built to do is released, people buy it full price, defend it to the hilt and then the company makes lame excuses as "Not prepared for the demands on it!". I am sorry but if you KNOW that there is a possiblity 200K people may play the game at the same time, you have to work to those limits. If you cannot, you push the game back and build a stable platform that CAN handle those numbers and if need be run 2 day Beta test with huge numbers pushing the hardware limits until you get the knowledge and confidence to release a stable game, and if you still can't...... you make a single-player racing game and leave the multiplayer stuff to people that CAN make it work with no issues at launch. If they cannot build a multiplayer network to support 200K players in a much more stable way, then their ideas for the game were too big for their development skills or the hardware they are working with and they should have reigned it back in until they had a working, stable game that was enjoyable to play and worthy of the RRP to the customer. Its ok trying to push "new boundaries" and to break new limits to produce epic games, but if they don't work and they just do not have the skill enough to guarantee a working game, then it is fundamentally wrong for them to expect the gamer to pay full RRP price for their "experiment". The gaming community somehow believe its ok to issue a multiplayer game for hardware that is simply plug-n-play technology and then create a dozen weak and flimsy excuses why it is broken and how the gamers are ungrateful. Driveclub should NEVER have been released in its current state until their team or the hardware they are working with had overcome their limitations to produce a stable working game. Assassins Creed Unity should NEVER have been released for the same reasons, and in some way Destiny should have been delayed for another couple of weeks and maybe a second Beta test to make sure it was more stable at the start. Game companies are simply trying to be the "next big thing" and hitting technical limitations and instead of saying "Well we COULD theoretically do this, but instead we need to scale it back down to make it actually work first time, out the box!" they are just pushing on and hoping the "epic" nature of the game shifts units and that they can then fix the problems later on, or conceded defeat 3 months later and announce a sequel that will work better instead. They are not treating Gaming and Gamers as an entertainment experience, some of them are treating Gamers as Guinea Pigs and hoping to make a few million $$$ from it and that is simply not right! If gamers are happy to pay full RRP for a product that does not function correctly almost every time you use it and are happy to defend poor game-making decisions over where to draw a line between a working professional game and a technology experiment, then so be it, you can also buy my broken iPhone 5 with smashed glass screen for £500 too if you like!