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Zoe Quinn: 'All Gamergate has done is ruin people's lives

Quinn is in the UK to talk about her work as a games designer, but most people at the event have come to know her as patient zero of Gamergate, the vociferous video game “protest movement” that exploded across the internet in August. Leaderless and chaotic, this ragtag community of self-identifying “hardcore” gamers sees its culture under threat from insidious outsiders – usually feminists and academics – who are challenging the industry on its sometimes questionable representation of violence, minorities and gender. Gamergate wants video games to be left alone.

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Ghost_of_Tsushima1107d ago

Here we go again with her nonsense.

-Foxtrot1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

Exactly

Trying to make it about her again and put the spotlight back onto her life. Then she'll end up complaining that people are targeting her...what does she expect. It's like Anita....they are basically poking a bear trying to hibernate then complaining when the bear gets angry claws their face off.

GamerGate was created BECAUSE of her but it wasn't really about attacking her, just looking at what she had done by sleeping with people in the industry and those people giving her free praise and what not, it was about the corruption over the fact nobody did anything despite what she had done. There it evolved into looking into corrupt journalism and moved away from her.

What about her anyway, didn't she ruin The Fine Young Capitalists thing despite being about supporting female developers.

uth111107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

The Anti-GG side ruined the life of the guy who created the Notyourshield tag, they continually threaten to blacklist devs who don't tow their line.

So it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black

Death1107d ago

It's amazing people are still going on about this so called corruption. Zoe did not make a game, she made a text adventure that no one cares about. Unless you bought Depression Quest and it turned out to be nothing like what the reviews said, what corruption exists? People are having sex with each other in the industry. This isn't something new and not exclusive to gaming. It happens every day and just about any place.

I'm more irritated with the people that still claim Depression Quest is a game. That's more misleading than the possibility of one of the reviewers being biased because they had sex with Zoe.

-Foxtrot1107d ago

@Death

Clearly you don't understand what went on

She or whoever created the game

She then used sex to influence journalists while portraying herself as a victim to receive donations and support

She slept with five different men who had positions in the video game or video game journalism industries

Zoe then fakes a hack on herself

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photo...

It then brings us to the Rebel Game Jam & The Fine Young Capitalists Doxxing, she might not of done it herself but she obviously had people do it for her as "revenge" I'm guessing.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photo...

On August 19th, the video game news blog Games Nosh published an article accusing Quinn of “exploiting games press for coverage.” Hours later, the @GamesNosh Twitter feed announced that their host had asked them to remove the article (shown below). That day, the page was removed and redirected a HostGator 404 page.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photo...

This brings us to home sweet home...N4G

We had this article get put up trying to expose her

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photo...

But it got taken down like so many others, including my own. Mine went back up after myself and other users on here complained, basically damage control...but it was too late those articles were lost from the hot topic front page.

After that you had Kotakus bullshit response

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photo...

Which meant nothing and to this day have done everything in their power to make GG look bad.

Following from that we had Censorship Controversy's and Conflicts of Interest and Journalistic Integrity

It goes on and on

So please Death don't say there isn't corruption when there is.

Death1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

There is no corruption. If the allegations are true, definitely bad decision making, but not corruption.

If I had to pass judgement I would say Zoe needs to seek help for her issues more than anything. Her sleeping with anyone and making Depression Quest has no impact on my life and I have no interest in what she does personally or professionally. I prefer to make my own decisions in life and don't rely on the opinions of others. If Zoes actions made any impact on your life or decision making, the problem is yours alone.

Let me ask you this since you are clearly bothered by Zoe, did you buy Depression Quest? If the answer is no, what exactly are you upset about?

Your crusade is against someone who is clearly unwell. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here. I would hope she gets the help she needs to be healthy. I'm not sure why you want anything else.

Anon19741107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

Death said "Let me ask you this since you are clearly bothered by Zoe, did you buy Depression Quest? If the answer is no, what exactly are you upset about?"

Depression Quest is free to play with a donation option where part of the proceeds goes to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. I'm not sure how anything he mentioned could be seen as "corruption in games journalism", nor do I understand all the harassment this woman has received. I guess people just want to bully her into silence. Sounds like a control thing to me. Otherwise, why would anyone care? As you asked, what exactly are they upset about? The rest of it just seems like tin-foil hat, conspiracy nonsense based on "he said/she said". GG, for all their efforts has no smoking gun. So what do they do? They parrot each other's misinformation, pat each other on the backs and continue to harass developers (harassing Brianna Wu about her dead dog? Really, gamergate?) and anyone who they can't bully into silence.

All one has to do is take a gander at 8chan or search Twitter for #Gamergate to see what's really going on with the "movement". It's a movement all right. Of the BM variety.

-Foxtrot1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

"There is no corruption. If the allegations are true, definitely bad decision making, but not corruption"

LOL...are you like totally blind. The stuff I posted above is like a fraction of what's going on, that stuff just relates to Zoe Quin which started this whole thing. Read through the ENTIRE Facebook group and you'll think differently.

"If I had to pass judgement I would say Zoe needs to seek help for her issues more than anything. Her sleeping with anyone and making Depression Quest has no impact on my life and I have no interest in what she does personally or professionally."

Why are you trying to make this sound like people are bothered in her sexual encounters, if she did that with five strangers fair enough, who gives a cross but the fact she did this with people in the industry and started all this off...things which were bound to get noticed then I'm sorry but it's her own fault. It dosen't bother anyone that she slept with five guys, it's her reasons for doing so that bothers us.

"If Zoes actions made any impact on your life or decision making, the problem is yours alone"

Unless that problem is the fact she slept with people to further her goals and exploit the gaming industry for her own greedy selfish needs. She's now playing the victim in order to gain money and funding, how can you agree with that and basically turn around and say "It's none of your business, let her be". That's pretty closed minded of you.

"Let me ask you this since you are clearly bothered by Zoe, did you buy Depression Quest? If the answer is no, what exactly are you upset about?"

Third time your trying to make it sound like people are just bothered with Zoe, like we are hating on her for no reason.

Her Game doesn't even factor into this, it's what she did within the industry and what she tried to do...exploit and benefit from it with horrible, greedy selfish ways.

Stop trying to shift the blame and make it about her silly game.

Whether you buy depression quest or not that's irrelevant

"Your crusade is against someone who is clearly unwell"

LOL..."unwell"

She brought this whole thing on herself and with things like this where she tries to get involved again putting the spotlight back on herself she's still continuing to play the "victim".

"I would hope she gets the help she needs to be healthy. I'm not sure why you want anything else"

Wow...just wow. I don't even...

If you want to buy into her "I;m the victim" stories "I've done nothing wrong" fair enough but don't try and force that crap on other people who aren't that gullible.

Death1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

Foxtrot, she is just as important to the industry as you are. If you want to make an impact on society, donate your time to a good cause. Take up a charity you believe in. You are wasting time and energy on someone who is nothing to the gaming industry. As for the whole group of whoever that is doing whatever that is bothering you, why are you empowering them in the first place? When I don't care for a group or person I don't dwell on them like you are. I'm starting to feel stupid spending the time I have today just discussing this with you.

If you feel this strongly about ethics in game journalism start up your own site or contribute to an existing site in the way you feel it should be. Being a bystander pointing your finger in protest does nothing to make the changes you feel need to happen. Getting a group of people to point their fingers with you won't do much either.

I am not claiming she is a victim of the nonsense GG is rambling about. Depression is an illness that affects many people. I am not a doctor and I have no idea who Zoe actually is. I don't know or care to know about who she is sleeping with or why. If she is using sex as a way to make herself feel better that is very unhealthy. Sex and depression go hand in hand and the affects are different for everyone. She made a game about depression. She's making risky decisions about sex which is a symptom of depression in itself. Has it occurred to you that you are picking on someone that suffers from a mental health illness?

-Foxtrot1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

"Foxtrot, she is just as important to the industry as you are"

If I was more involved with this industry and was making a game the last thing I would do is sleep with people to further myself and then exploit the industry for my own personal gains. Not to mention play the victim card and gain money because of it.

"If you want to make an impact on society, donate your time to a good cause. Take up a charity you believe in."

"When I don't care for a group or person I don't dwell on them like you are."

Really because these responses say different, you are defending the shit out of her and are trying to make it like it's about her when it's not. Telling people like me that the whole "crusade" is about her when it's not, it started with her nothing more

"I'm starting to feel stupid spending the time I have today just discussing this with you."

I'm starting to feel pretty stupid that I'm here wasting my time with you as you twist everything I and others say to try and make this whole thing into something it's not. If you do feel stupid then it's your own fault you replied to me.

Next time though don't reply like a blind sheep who doesn't have a clue what Gamer Gate is about. You;d fit quite nicely in at Kotaku, every tried for a job there?

"If you feel this strongly about ethics in game journalism start up your own site or contribute to an existing site in the way you feel it should be."

I don't need to, the Facebook group is doing quite well on it's own. I'll support them and I'll support the thing by speaking out about this.

"Depression is an illness that affects many people"

Yeah I know, I have it and I'll tell you something if she had it the last thing she would do is keep speaking out to make people attack her more so she feels even more crappy. You would shut down and hide yourself away to get better.

" If she is using sex as a way to make herself feel better that is very unhealthy. "

So your basically saying people who use sex to get what they want have something wrong with them...wow.

"Has it occurred to you that you are picking on someone that suffers from a mental health illness?"

Here we go, your're loosing this argument so your trying to take the morale highroad by making it look like your defending a "sick" person to be all noble. Just because she has depression doesn't mean she can get away with anything she wants.

Death1107d ago

I sincerely hope you never have to take care of someone with a mental illness. I've watched cancer eat at someones mind and seen how it affected them daily and seen first hand how depression can tear someone apart when left untreated. If Zoe is suffering from depression and it's not being treated by a professional, I do feel for her. I also feel for you since you can't see past your own needs to understand or have empathy for someone else.

At the end of the day we are talking about video games. The fact that you see corruption here is a joke in itself. Videogame journalists are only as important as you make them.

Farsendor11107d ago

people should step away from gamergate and make something more unified without the assholes because the gaming media does have issues. some people just made it about one person when the issues are much larger than that.

I seen some of the things people tweeted her and gaming journalist it was disgusting and shameful.

Dramacydal1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

GamerGate is a collection of cowards hiding behind the Internet, while harassing and bullying anything and anyone with a differing opinion. Corrupt journalism...of video games...hahahahahaha. Jesus wept.

Let's ignore the harassment done in GG's name. Or the vile joy GG memebers extract from their victim's pain. It's better to soapbox the ideal and not the actions. And for what? Not liking a review score? Pathetic little boys.

thewhiteelephant1107d ago

Woman have been sleeping to the top for years. Good on them if I was an attractive female I'd do the same as I'm not getting much further than I am now (although my job pays extremely well anyway) this ganergate is another way for gamers to have a whinge. Its time for gamers to actually grow the F up

DragonKnight1107d ago

Wow. I've never seen so much willful ignorance in my life.

@Death: Do you honestly believe for one second that the light placed upon Zoe Quinn has strictly been about Depression Quest? We're talking about a woman who sleeps her way to the top with impunity, successfully ended a project that was DESIGNED TO HELP WOMEN GET INTO GAME DEVELOPMENT, and managed to convince so many people that a movement filled with thousands of people who are made up of members of every ethnic background, gender identity, sexual orientation, and sex has for months been completely misogynistic and sexist because they can't get over her sleeping around.

GamerGate has ballooned way beyond Zoe Quinn. It involves a gaming journalism group where they discuss how to deal with employees that they are in competition with, whether or not to censor forums, what kind of stories to write with a particular narrative, even the suggestion of sending Zoe Quinn a gift from every member of said group in a show of solidarity, which itself is an example of cronyism and nepotism.

You frickin' KNOW the gaming press is corrupt. We all know it here. Do I have to remind you of DoritosGate or Jeff Gerstmann?

Honest to god, it takes like 5 seconds to look this stuff up and see through this nonsense idea that thousands of people got together to harass one, absolutely hideous and morally bankrupt woman who is so self-obsessed that every time people STOP talking about her, she has to insert herself back into the limelight saying everyone is harassing her just so people will continue talking about her.

And that's not even going into the kind of stuff her supporters have done to pro-GG people. But of course sending someone a syringe filled with liquid, a knife with a note that says "kill yourself", and ruining a guy's career is not something you care to discuss right?

DragonKnight1107d ago

@Darkride: "Depression Quest is free to play with a donation option where part of the proceeds goes to the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. I'm not sure how anything he mentioned could be seen as "corruption in games journalism", nor do I understand all the harassment this woman has received. I guess people just want to bully her into silence. Sounds like a control thing to me. Otherwise, why would anyone care? As you asked, what exactly are they upset about? The rest of it just seems like tin-foil hat, conspiracy nonsense based on "he said/she said". GG, for all their efforts has no smoking gun. So what do they do? They parrot each other's misinformation, pat each other on the backs and continue to harass developers (harassing Brianna Wu about her dead dog? Really, gamergate?) and anyone who they can't bully into silence."

Spoken like someone who's received their info from a place like MSNBC and hasn't spent more than 3 seconds actually looking at GamerGate stuff thus knows absolutely nothing about it.

"All one has to do is take a gander at 8chan or search Twitter for #Gamergate to see what's really going on with the "movement". It's a movement all right. Of the BM variety."

Oh?

Well here's an imgur link of what appeared for me when I went to 8chan.co/gg

WARNING: There are at least 2 images among the many present on the board that are NSFW. However, actually read the comments and you tell me what about them is misogyny, blackmail, hate, etc...

http://imgur.com/kzJMzBp

And now an imgur link of what you'd see on the twitter page. Sorry for the poor cropping quality, twitter isn't exactly easy to get a screencap of with the extension I use.

http://imgur.com/2XcjzwG

Again, point out your problem. Doubt you will though.

Seriously, it's not at all hard to see that GamerGate is about how awful gaming journalism is these days.

Halo2ODST21107d ago

How are you guys able to comment like 5 times, I'm capp'd at 2 comments?

DragonKnight1107d ago

@Halo2ODST2: That's because you only have 2 bubbles. You see those 2 things that look like speech bubbles? That's the number of times you're allowed to comment. To get more bubbles, people have to agree with what you say enough to give you a bubble up vote. Enough votes will get you an extra bubble and an extra comment.

viperman2401107d ago

@Foxtrot @DragonKnight

Those are some good ass truth bombs.

How anyone can gloss over what either of you said it just sad, and willfully ignorant. As they say, ignorance is bliss.

Either that, or they have something to lose by admitting the industry is messed up.

pivotplease1107d ago

Kind of with Death here...He's not defending her but rather pointing out the triviality of this entire situation. Said corruption exists in every facet of humanity. If most people knew the inner-workings of global or even national politics they would cry themselves to sleep.

I'm sure this person and the industry at large are morally bankrupt, but it seems like directing attention towards her revitalizes the cycle. The industry as a whole obviously deserves some attention, but I am personally over it. The state of disarray in the world easily eclipses video game corruption that has been present for years (and has yet to palpably impact my life). If GG has different priorities then so be it. They just need to isolate themselves from certain people (youtube commenters, people who play COD and Halo, the clinically insane, and other sweeping generalizations that might imply a person who would resort to death and/or rape threats).

So to recap...against corruption...against Zoe...just not enough to care...seems trivial...and GG is a good idea, it just needs some alterations.

hazelamy1107d ago

i've got Depression Quest.

i got it free when she gave it away after Robin Williams committed suicide.

what a bitch right?

k3rn3ll1107d ago

Yea they were all over Brad Wardell of Stardock last night harassing him. She would use his twitter account name in tweets slandering him. Then when he would respond defending himself shed say stop contacting me Brad and respect my privacy shit

Anon19741107d ago

@DragonKnight. Oh please. It's because I've been watching this whole mess unfold and have been following that I know just what garbage the whole thing is. Again, if Gamergate had a smoking gun or links that undeniably exposed the conspiracy and corruption with which the industry is apparently riddled with, you'd be shouting it from the rooftops...but all you have is conspiracy theories, petty grievances and a complete lack of common sense as to how these sites operate.

How was it about "gaming in journalism" when Gamergate supporters opened a thread on 8chan to discuss whether or not Brianna Wu was a jew? How was it about ethics when 8chan threads shared Anita Sarkeesian in all manner of racist, jewish caricature cartoons (she isn't jewish by the way)? How is it about ethics in journalism when gamergate supporters debate on twitter and 8chan on whether or not Brianna Wu used Kickstarter funds for a sex change? Or debating how many people Zoe Quinn actually slept with in the industry? Is it one? 5? Sixteen? No one seems to have an answer of how many she had to sleep with for her text based game to get the reviews it did. But I'm sure it's a lot, right?

The Zoe Quinn story of sleeping with Grayson for reviews was untrue. So why hasn't it stopped people from harassing her if it's about journalistic ethics?

And as for journalists talking among themselves about topics, what country do you live in? Somewhere were there isn't freedom of speech and freedom of association? Because journalist are free to talk to whoever the hell they want in most places. Unless you think they should be monitored by the thought police.

So tell me, if one journalist emails another to get his thoughts about a topic, is that Ok? Should these emails be made public? What if they CC another journalist, does that then have to be disclosed to the public? What's the number of journalists that should be allowed to gather in one place to discuss the topics of the day over beers before we need to crack down on it?

Ridiculous...

And if you have issues with who these sites are allowed to take advertising dollars from, don't visit those sites but know that advertising in game journalism isn't going to go anywhere. It's not the fault of gaming journalist sites that they need to get paid.

Death1107d ago

@Pivot, Glad to see you get it.

@DK and anyone else claiming Zoe slept her way to the top, Zoe isn't at the top. The only relevance Zoe has is the relevance people like you are giving her. When you look at the wild claims people make and then look at actual facts, they aren't even remotely close.

Zoe isn't a dev.
Depression Quest isn't a game.
Depression Quest was free.

So what did Zoe sleep her way up to? She didn't make money. DQ is a digital text adventure and not a game. Why gamers are upset is beyond me. You guys didn't buy it, didn't "play" it, weren't mislead since you weren't interested in the first place. What are you upset at?

If you want to look at the real issue, it is ignorance breeding ignorance and taking a stand against something non-existent. Yes, I am standing by while Zoe has no impact on my life or even gaming in general. The stand some of you are taking is not only trivial, it's based on nothing. Stupid people do stupid things everyday. If you are going to get upset by this, you aren't going to be a very happy person in life. Try to focus on the things that actually affect you and then narrow that down to the things you can change.

DragonKnight1107d ago

@darkride: There have long been MANY smoking guns with regards to corruption in gaming journalism. Do I need to remind you of DoritosGate and Jeff Gerstmann too?

"How was it about "gaming in journalism"...

That entire paragraph is the worst kind of logical fallacy I've ever seen. So because some people on 8Chan post messages about Brianna Wu in any way, GamerGate isn't about ethics in gaming journalism? All of your examples are "some idiots on one site acted like idiots, therefore thousands of people fighting against corruption every single day in Gamergate actually just thousands of sockpuppet accounts who really only care about being racist and sexist. You sound like a typical radical feminist with that completely lack of awareness or even effort in reading. Zoe Quinn doesn't matter. People started calling her LiterallyWho because we don't give a flying f*** about her anymore. She's irrelevant and you're acting like the fools who think that, just over 3 months later, GamerGate is still about one hideous and promiscuous person cheating on her boyfriend. Everything you've said sounds like cherry picked nonsense someone handed to you.

"The Zoe Quinn story of sleeping..."

Are you kidding? She never shuts up about alleged harassment she allegedly receives well after people have stopped talking about her. Are you the kind of person that thinks that random individuals are talking for thousands? So if I say "you're an idiot" for example, I guess that I've just harassed you in the name of thousands of people? Zoe Quinn is going to receive harassment long after GG finally ends because she courts it, she provokes it, and it seems she actively seeks it out. Even someone who has no degree in psychiatry can tell that she craves attention and doesn't care where she gets it from, that's why she slept with 5 guys, including her own boss, all while she was in a relationship. I'm surprised the one guy's wife hasn't been "harassing" her for being a home wrecker. Is the fact that she gets harassed right? Not at all. But what do you think happens when you point a loaded gun at your face and try to test the safety out over and over?

"And as for journalists talking among themselves about topics, what country do you live in?..."

Nice non-answer. The fact that they're discussing censorship, Ben Kuchera calling for someone to be axed he DOESN'T work with, and trying to coerce The Escapist into banning anyone who even mentions GG is totally just freedom of expression. Yeah, it's got nothing to do with corruption at all.

"And if you have issues with..."

As I said to David Jaffe when he came up with that B.S. reasoning and then had the temerity to demand to see who uses adblock and who doesn't, not visiting a site has literally the same end result as email advertisers to get ads pulled. If you don't visit a site, advertisers will see the drop in unique visitors and pull their ads costing the site money. The act of emailing advertisers and telling them that a site condones bullying (Gawker) or calls the very demographic the advertisers actually want to sell product to "dead" (Kotaku, Gamasutra, and about 10 other sites), is a legitimate consumer tool with the same end result but with the added benefit of adding an actual voice to the dissatisfaction.

You know, the kind of thing people here b**** that we should all be doing against publishers for stuff like Microtransactions? Your entire post sounds like you got someone else to give you your opinion.

DragonKnight1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

@Death: "@DK and anyone else claiming Zoe slept..."

She slept with her own frickin' boss Death. You're trying to tell me that sleeping with your boss holds absolutely no benefits? Gee, that means that the people doing so for hundreds of years were just wasting their time. Oh, and I suppose national news coverage, the entire SJW army, and most of the gaming press all converging on you like a shield isn't a benefit either. Nope, she's received absolutely nothing from sleeping around, ruining TFYC until GamerGate and 4Chan stepped in, and generally being a piss poor example of a human being.

"Zoe isn't a dev.
Depression Quest isn't a game.
Depression Quest was free."

Oh really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

"Zoe Quinn (born 1987) is an American independent video game developer and 2D artist."

What's the 2 words after independent?

"Depression Quest is a 2013 interactive fiction game dealing with the subject of depression."

What's the 3 words after 2013?

Right. Next.

"So what did Zoe sleep her way up to? She didn't make money. DQ is a digital text adventure and not a game. Why gamers are upset is beyond me. You guys didn't buy it, didn't "play" it, weren't mislead since you weren't interested in the first place. What are you upset at?"

We don't care about Zoe Quinn. The possibility that she slept around for positive press (and although Grayson didn't review the game, he did mention it in a list of games for an article he wrote in which he praised it) is what started The Quinnspiracy. Then people like Leigh Alexander started calling gamers dead with more than 10 articles all released on the same day by 10 different sites. This prompted Adam Baldwin to coin the term GamerGate and it ballooned from there. So no one cares about Zoe Quinn but her, her SJW cult followers, and you apparently.

Right, right. There's no corruption in gaming journalism at all. That's why Dean Takahashi didn't report on getting an $800 swag bag back when Halo 3 was coming out. That's why Jeff Gerstmann wasn't fired from Gamespot for poorly scoring Kane and Lynch. That's why Rab Florence didn't leave Eurogamer for exposing a promotional scheme and risked being sued because of it. That's why Geoff Keighley isn't the DoritosPope. That's why Microsoft didn't start a promotional campaign with Machinima by proxy of a 3rd party. That's why there isn't an email list journalists use to make employment decisions that affect future careers. That's why Leigh Alexander never told at least 2 people that she can ruin their careers in gaming journalism before it begins just by being pro-GG.

No, you're right, gaming journalism is the height of respectability, transparency, and fairness. Which is why the FTC isn't going to look at making it law that gaming journalism sites must disclose, publicly, the information about their affiliate advertisement programs that sees them plugging products on sites like Amazon that they inevitably get paid to plug but have not, up until this point, ever disclosed, and that's why Kotaku hasn't retroactively gone back to disclose said information on their site.

It's all sunshine and lollipops in gaming journalism, completely ethical. Right?

Anon19741107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

@DragonKnight. Than by all means. Let's have the evidence of this widespread industry corruption of which you speak. If Gamergate is aware of it, why on earth are they keeping it to themselves? Is it a secret that they only share to themselves and the rest of us are all left wondering what their fascination with is with certain female personalities and their frothing loathing of Gawker because, apparently, a couple of Gawker employees hurt their little feelings with a couple of tweets?

Doritosgate was product placement, not a scandal. I don't care for product placement but it's hardly a symbol of journalistic corruption. The Gerstmann thing 100% pisses me off, and I've always been up front about that, but he wouldn't be the first person fired for pissing off a sponsor and he won't be the last. That has nothing to do with journalists and everything to do with large publishers who SHOULD be the target of gamer contempt, not the people who write about games.

And where on earth do I say that it's all about harassment but nothing about ethics? Here's a clue. I don't. But, like I said, the small good that has come of Gamergate doesn't for a second erase the mountain of bad. And what has Gamergate accomplished really? Intel pulled ads for a month from a developer news site before realizing their mistake? That certainly taught those developers not to blog about game issues, didn't it now? The FTC updated their FAQ page? Please...

"You sound like a typical radical feminist..."
And you sound like a bully who can't address a single point I raise so you resort to personally attacking me, namecalling and trying to belittle my comments rather than arguing the points I raise.

"although Grayson didn't review the game, he did mention it in a list of games for an article he wrote in which he praised it"

OMG. So he wrote an article listing 50 games Greenlit and mentioned that Depression Quest was one of the standouts in his one paragraph "article". That's obviously corruption in game journalism that runs industry wide! I've seen the light! Gamergate was right all along!

http://www.rockpapershotgun...

Swag bags used to influence journalists are a problem. Paid vacations and publishers wining and dining reviewers are a problem, but that's an industry norm, and it's a problem with publishers, not reviewers. When I worked in finance, I was taken out by mutual fund reps all the time and given swag bags to try to get me to buy their products for my clients. I didn't unless it was something I thought my clients needed, just like it's not an issue with journalists, unless they're swayed into giving positive reviews. Then there's a problem. That's how these things get done. Don't be naive.

You don't believe journalists have the right to talk to each other about industry topics or run their sites how they choose? You don't believe they can discuss their opinions of employees? Who deputized you into the thought police?

"or calls the very demographic the advertisers actually want to sell product to "dead""

You just tipped your hand right there that you didn't actually read any of those articles.

Anyway...good luck with all that gamergate stuff. You guys have fun with your club.

DragonKnight1107d ago

@darkride: Paragraph 1: This paragraph shows you have spent exactly 0 minutes and 0 seconds reading up on Gamergate.

"Doritosgate was product placement, not a scandal..."

Wrong. DoritosGate was about Rab Florence and Eurogamer. How Rab exposed an event in which Sony tried to create positive press by offering members of the press a free PS4 if they tweeted out how much they loved it. He used a specific tweet and was nearly sued for it, as was Eurogamer until they pulled his article and he left. If you don't think trying to create positive press by bribing the press is corruption, you don't know what corruption is.

"but he wouldn't be the first person fired..."

Did you just type that nonsense? So because he won't be the last to be fired for pissing off a sponsor, that makes corruption ok? OF COURSE IT HAS TO DO WITH JOURNALISTS! Gamespot could have NOT fired him for, you know, DOING HIS JOB! They chose money over integrity. THAT'S CORRUPTION!

"And where on earth do I say that it's all about harassment but nothing about ethics?..."

The mountain of bad? You mean the mountain of gross misrepresentation by the SJWs, the MSM, and you? You know, because ONE person threatening Brianna Wu = All of Gamergate doing it right? Same with Anita Sarkeesian cancelling her talk at the Utah university is because all of Gamergate collectively sent her a death threat right? Oh that's right, none of that was ever substantiated as having any link to Gamergate, but why let facts stand in your way. Intel didn't make a mistake. They were bullied into submission by people like you saying GamerGate is nothing but a misogyny campaign. One that has somehow managed to garner the support of hundreds of woman of all backgrounds who I guess internalize their own misogyny right? What part of "the FTC is going to review things" do you not understand? Next year the FTC will review the requirements, why would Kotaku bother doing anything if they didn't think the FTC will force the issue? Please...

"You don't believe journalists have the right..."

You think people like Ben Kuchera have the right to try to coerce sites he doesn't work for into censoring/banning members for being pro-GG as well as pretty much DEMANDING someone be fired?

"You just tipped your hand right there that you didn't actually read any of those articles."

Oh, you mean the articles that call core gamers online "obtuse sh*t slingers" and wailing hyper consumers" who call out people like every single member of this site for being upset with B.S. like Mass Effect 3's ending? You mean the article that says that people like every member of this site (that includes you) are not, and should not be a demographic despite the fact that we put the most time and money into the industry? You mean the articles that quite literally say that "fun" ought not be a consideration in game development?

You didn't read a single sentence of those articles. I can tell because you have the opinion that people like Leigh Alexander was saying that a specific type of super troll, and not "gamers" in general are who she's talking about. Yeah, that's why she literally said the term "gamer" is one that people allegedly are increasingly disassociating themselves from right? Oh no, I'm sure she specifically mean the types of gamer with xX420BlazeItQuickScopingNoobKi ller69Xx as their online handle which is why she specifically mentioned those people and didn't make a broad sweeping generalization.

Just because someone has handed you an opinion, don't act like anyone else hasn't actually read stuff.

DragonKnight1107d ago

part 2: "And you sound like a bully who can't address a single point I raise so you resort to personally attacking me, namecalling and trying to belittle my comments rather than arguing the points I raise."

I've addressed all your points and you've come back with the same B.S. lies that the SJW/Radical Feminist crown have used to misrepresent GamerGate since day one.

"Swag bags used to influence journalists are a problem. Paid vacations and publishers wining and dining reviewers are a problem, but that's an industry norm, and it's a problem with publishers, not reviewers. When I worked in finance, I was taken out by mutual fund reps all the time and given swag bags to try to get me to buy their products for my clients. I didn't unless it was something I thought my clients needed, just like it's not an issue with journalists, unless they're swayed into giving positive reviews. Then there's a problem. That's how these things get done. Don't be naive."

It's not a problem with publishers because it's expected of them to do whatever they can to get positive press. Jeff Gerstmann and DoritosGate and all the other reviewers that accepted the $800 swag bag prove that the problem is with the journalists that take all of those offers. You know they do, we've seen it happen, I listed the examples which you acknowledge happened, and yet you're still mired in this idea that corruption doesn't exist and Gamergate, despite being comprised of hundreds of women, is a sexist, misogynist, racist hate campaign all dedicated to Zoe Quinn. The willful ignorance is painfully depressing.

"OMG. So he wrote an article listing 50 games Greenlit and mentioned that Depression Quest was one of the standouts in his one paragraph "article". That's obviously corruption in game journalism that runs industry wide! I've seen the light! Gamergate was right all along."

Being facetious does nothing for your case.

Quick, contact Zoe Quinn so she can continue telling you what to think.

JMyers1106d ago (Edited 1106d ago )

@ FoxTrot... EXACTLY!

Its about credibility in gaming journalism. Many sites reported on her and not the ethics issue. Twisting the whole #gamergate to something else.

They keep making it about them, and/or women in games... its NOT about that at all. And of course death threats are wrong and should be condemned. This happens in every indusry and no one supports it. Its not more prevalent in gaming, this woman... or just towards them, or women in gaming.

Its jornalism ETHICS

Dee_911106d ago (Edited 1106d ago )

She made a crap load of money because of it... but her life is ruined by it.. right, seems like she wants it to keep going.

@Death
That incident brought light upon countless other similar incidents, so yea, I'd say there is corruption.

@Foxtrot & darkride66
Kudos for still having the energy to still be replying to these ignorant comments, because I completely give up on trying to tell people whats really going on because they apparently are interested in the situation enough to continuously comment on it,but not enough to actually read about it... I mean dear god DragonKnight is still asking for proof..

blackpanther251106d ago

I see people are putting their capes on.........

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Gaming247allday1107d ago

Can this women just shut the hell up already? where does she get the ego to think we care so much about her life, i don't care about her, her boyfriend, or who she was screwing, just be quiet already lady because your are nothing but an annoyance to most of us, so just move on with your life jesus

gamey1107d ago

You sure SEEM to care. Regardless, a lot of people do care (in very aggressive ways) about her sex life, her role in the video game industry (trivial). Those are the people who need to seriously shut the hell up and move on with their lives, jesus.

elninels1107d ago

Can we just figure out what happened with fish? Remember that stuff everyone? He got hacked or whatever? I cant remember the story. No one seems to follow it up. It had actual implications.

It was more legitimate than this zoe quinn ish. Shes unimportant, news regarding her is unimportant.

GAMERGATE STOP FUXXX ING IT UP FOR THE REST OF US!!!! Seriously they're causing trouble and giving the fanhood too much negative attention. They're making all gamers look like rage heavy woman hating nerds.

madpuppy1107d ago

She is like the thing that never goes away.

Knuxxx1107d ago

Is it just me or does this writer seem like they've got an agenda? I feel like they write for Fox News. That or they're trying SUPER hard at damage control. And the logic...

"19 March 2014 The Game Developers Choice awards receive bomb threats: the aggressors say they will explode a bomb if the organisers go ahead with giving Anita Sarkeesian an award. She is given the award and the threat proves empty. Police search the building beforehand yet find nothing.

19 August 2014 Quinn is “doxxed” anonymously – this is where someone’s address, bank details, telephone numbers are published on the internet. It is hard to trace the culprits, and leads to harassment and very real threats."

So... if the bomb threats are fake, then I would assume a majority of the threats being made to her are as well. Her going on about someone hiring a Private investigator to stalk her are her being emotional and deluded. How she's been acting says to me that mentally, she has some issues.

3-4-51107d ago

Your not all seeing the bigger picture.

This is about ALL MEDIA lying.

The Anti-GG people are getting help from higher up.

From people with political influence.

It's not a level 1 complexity anymore...

It's gone to a level 2-3.

It's a deep level ruse meant to trick a lot of people.

Just mirror this issue, with the "real Media", and what do you see?

OUTRIGHT LYING on national television to the American People by news agencies with "credibility".

If the top dogs are doing it, it's then trickling down to lower levels.

Liberals don't require facts, they just make up the truth and bully you into believing it.

gamey1107d ago

Just stop it you. You're going down a really scary paranoid path. The fact that you tied sensationalist media (motivated chiefly by profit, mind you) with a political stripe shows you don't understand the issue of media in our society at all. Just because you think you understand something as a conspiracy doesn't make that the reality. Sometimes you're just not getting the actual picture.

elninels1107d ago

Still disappointed these people had sex with her. Blows my mind actually. Who risks their livelihood, reputation, and health for that.

Seems like she's got a poor personality and I think as a community we can agree that aesthetically she's rates as a four at best.

That four is so so generous too. Even her porn work looked awful.

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yarbie10001107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

Gamergate made me aware of how the media has secret groups where they gather and discuss which stories they are going to talk about and which ones they are going to slide under the rug.

Gamergate made me aware of just how corrupt many of these news sites are who allowed journalists to donate money to the very people they are suppose to be critically reviewing.

Gamergate also made me aware of how many people will try to distort a movement - and how we have quite a few people who are "Professional Victims"

I don't think anyone dislikes Zoe Quinn for being a woman - I haven't found anyone who hates this person for having 2 X Chromosomes.

But acting like a slut - and portraying a boohooing victim every day - distorting facts and reality could probably ruin your life.

Anon19741107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

Wait? So game journalists aren't allowed to talk to each other about the industry? You don't think journalists everywhere have groups where they discuss their work with each other, or the latest news?

And you don't believe that people in the industry should be allowed to donate their personal dollars to any cause or project they see fit? Having a financial interest in a game is a completely different from simply backing a project via Kickstarter or the like.

But go ahead, you judge people and tell them who they can talk to, how they should conduct their personal lives and where they can spend their own money. See how far that gets you in life.

Edit below: Well sorry to break it to you, but journalists, like anyone else, are allowed to associate and talk with whoever they want. No one is going to play big brother and stop that, and there's nothing wrong with it. Every industry does this. As for political contributions, that varies from organization to organization. Many have no objections to where their staff chooses to contribute. If game journalists choose to donate to a project, as long as it doesn't impact their ability to report on other projects, what's the issue? Again, this isn't the same thing as having a financial interest in a title that they'd profit from. That's completely different.

yarbie10001107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

No I don't think its okay for a group of trusted media to conspire to keep some topics hidden from the public while pushing an agenda for other topics. Glad you're okay with that.

No, donating money as a journalist is unethical and why all news organizations ban the practice. You can't be a journalist and donate money to any political party for instance.

And if it was right - why did some sites come out and say they were banning the practice?

-Foxtrot1107d ago

Jeez all the defending you do towards these corrupt journalists is the reason why the think they can do what they like.

Anon19741107d ago

@-Foxtrot. Please explain to me how I'm "defending corrupt journalists". Where's this widespread corruption you speak of, and my defense thereof?

If a journalist does something wrong I'd be the first in line to condemn them. Talking to other journalists isn't corruption. Spending your own money on projects you want to support isn't corruption. Failing to disclose close personal relationships (like the journalist/dev roommates thing) I completely think is inappropriate. But let's face it, we've had months now of GamerGate digging through journalists trash and they've come up with bupkis overall. There's no widespread corruption among game journalists.

I completely support the call for more transparency from game journalists, and I think they should be held to a certain level of journalistic standards. I just think GG is a witchhunt that's ruining real people's lives for few gains.

Death1107d ago

If you are basing your decisions on a journalists opinion there is a much bigger issue you aren't seeing. You should be able to make your own decisions and form your own opinion. A journalist or reviewer should not have the kind of influence you are claiming they do on a reasonable person. Not to mention Zoe didn't sleep with every person that reviewed her work. The alleged "corrupt" journalists review was inline with the others.

Dramacydal1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

Secret groups. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Over video games. That they didn't make. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Makes total sense.

Spotie1107d ago

More and more disappointed in you, darkride. Not at all surprised by Death, given how he defends other crappy practices in the industry.

Here's the bottom line: Quinn and her actions were the tip of the iceberg. At the same time, they were the tipping point. You're both being intentionally obtuse, pretending like we weren't all complaining about shitty journalism long before we ever heard of Quinn, her abhorrent game, or the gamergate hashtag.

The movement has, from its very start, been about a lack of impartiality in gaming journalism. People with obvious- and not so obvious- biases pushing their opinions on us, who rely on them to give us news on the industry.

Yes, journalists can converse amongst themselves and talk about whatever. Nobody is saying they can't. What should not be acceptable is them deciding what subjects to cover, and which ones to bury. They should not be donating to games they then cover in any way, be it a full review or just an endorsement. That presents a conflict of interest any other industry would more than frown upon.

Sleeping with a developer most definitely falls into that category, even if "developer" is a bit strong of a word.

I'm most baffled by your willingness to disregard EVERYTHING out there saying #Gamergate is more than just hating on Quinn or women. It's like their efforts with TFYC and other such organizations, other such causes don't even exist.

How about actually taking the time to educate yourselves on the other side of the story? Cuz it's clear you've both- among many others- heard a small bit of it here and there and decided you'll follow the same line as the mainstream media: gamergate is just thinly veiled misogyny.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/...

EVERY bit of green text is a link proving just how stupid your defense of this attention whore is.

The question is: will you even bother to take that evidence into consideration, or have you already made up your mind based on the fragments others have chosen to divulge to you?

Honestly, it's pathetic that it even has to come to this.

UnwanteDreamz1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

Thank you spotie

I encourage gamers to read what is at the other end of that link.

InTheLab1107d ago

Don't you run a website? Or is it a different darkride I'm thinking of. The one I respected had 1 bubble for a year because he went hard at corrupt sites that shown bias for a particular console.

Perhaps I'm mistaken.

Anon19741107d ago

@Spotie. I disagree. I think gaming journalists have every right to discuss among themselves what topics are interesting, what to cover, etc.. It's conversation. It's not like there's some shadowy group that hides behind the scenes and dictates to all game journalists what to report. That's nonsense, yet that's what Gamergators would have you believe they're fighting about.

As for donating money, they should be able to support whatever cause they want to with their funds..as long as they don't have a undisclosed financial interest in that project. If I'm a journalist and I see an interesting game in the works, why wouldn't I write a story about it if I thought others would find it interesting? And if I personally wanted to chip in $10 or $100 to a Kickstarter, who the hell is going to tell me I can't? I'd even be up front about it in my articles! "I love the look of this game, I'm an unabashed fan and I personally kicked into their kickstarter." How on earth could anyone take issue with that? Why shouldn't journalists be supportive of the game industry and projects they're interested in? As long as it's not impacting their reporting on other topics, what's the harm?

Just like you're article mentions, it's about bias. Bias isn't corruption. It's bias. If you don't like the bias displayed by a site, or media organisation, use another site you're happy with. Trying to say journalists shouldn't have bias, you might as well be an old man yelling at a cloud. And as for all the "good" in the article Gamergate has accomplished, it doesn't erase the mountain of bad. It's like "Hey, there's a daisy growing out of that mountain of shit." You can't simply ignore the facts. It's not illegal for mods to censor their forums. It's their forums, they can do whatever the hell they want. You certainly can't deny that a lot of GG behaviour is a clear violation of the terms of use on most sites when it comes to language, harassment, etc. If forums want to shut down all discussion due to the toxic turn the debate inevitably takes, that's their prerogative. Don't like it, make your own forum, which is what they did! The system works.

The sad thing is you think this one sided article somehow outlines Gamergate's justification for their harassment of industry figures. It doesn't.

@InTheLab. I did run a game news aggregate site years ago but simply don't have the time for it and sold the domain. Don't think they did anything with it. And having one bubble for a year...try more like 5 years out of the 7 or so I've been on this site! If sites show a bias, if sites display questionable ethics, if reviewers use one set of rules for one game but not another...damn straight I still have issue with this. But that's not what gamergate is about. If it was and they had any evidence whatsoever of wrongdoing it'd be right there with them. But it's conspiracy nonsense for the most part, or issues of so little import all I can do is shake my head.

elninels1107d ago

You have some fair points.

"And you don't believe that people in the industry should be allowed to donate their personal dollars to any cause or project they see fit"

No they shouldn't. Their ability to cover a subject objectively becomes impaired.

It goes like this.
I am a journalist.
I invest in a start up.
I review said start up's product or service positively, even if said project or service sucks, to drive sales.
I collude with my peers to proliferate misleading reviews.
I make more money.
I abandon journalistic integrity.

Anon19741107d ago

@elenels. But that's not what we're talking about here. I've been very clear on that. If a journalist has an investment in a company and would profit from a game's success, that's a conflict that needs to be addressed and that journalist shouldn't discuss that game.

Supporting a game via kickstarter or by other means where there's no benefit to the journalist if the game succeeds or fails. ..that's a completely different situation obviously. There's no earthly reason a journalist, developer or anyone else should be told they can't donate to a cause or project they want to support. That's not the same as an investment where a return is expected in the end.

Dee_911106d ago

It appears @darkride66 can't quite grasp the thought of a journalist and a person whose not a journalist can't do the same things.It appears that he believes that since 'teh everybudy else duz it, it is therefore okay!' It appears he doesn't know anything about journalist ethics most journalist learn about early on in school, that clearly state a majority of the stuff you personally see no issue with ( because of your ignorance) as being against journalistic ethics..You can try to make it seem as innocent as you want by ignoring the specifics of exactly what that group was doing until your face turn purple, but the fact is that group goes against journalistic ethics.. So actually.it does not matter what you personally feel, what matters is the reality.

Also wellsaid @yarbie1000

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donwel1107d ago

What gets me is how she's supposed to be "afraid for her life" yet keeps going on these worldwide misogyny tours, which surely would make her an easier target?

jspsc1231106d ago

its not just gaming media, its all media. thoes who control the money control everything and will do anything to keep contol.

ReconHope1107d ago

So there was never an actual review by kotaku. Can't believe everything you read on the internet.

-Foxtrot1107d ago

There was never a review but there was two articles by the same guy praising her game telling us to go and buy it. Someone else did the same thing on another site, I think it was Rock, Paper, Shotgun

ReconHope1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

She conveniently left that part out I suppose. Can someone post a link to these two articles that the guy was praising her game that she slept with.

gamey1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

Oh seriously, LINK IT. I thought it was free to play? Raise money for charity? Jesus. You have made a mountain of the the tiniest molehill. Most of it is based emotionally in this idea that she slept with people to "get ahead" somehow. People have sex. Gamergate hasn't accomplished anything but giving a little protective cover to the idea that it didn't start out as a vicious rabble with severely touchy ideas about women. All your assertions and timelines ultimately mean nothing important. It really doesn't matter how many pieces of "evidence" you have if they don't add up to an actual picture. You're doing a good job of giving the IMPRESSION something catastrophic happened. It didn't. It is time to move onto productive things. Like ethics in journalism. Like calling out bigotry and sexism. Those are great. Stop focusing on trying to prove this started out clean. It didn't.

Anon19741107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

You're correct. There was never a review by Kotaku. Grayson mentioned Quinn in an article regarding a indie game reality show she was on but never favorably mentioned the game. This was prior to any romantic involvement between the two. You can see the article here. This was the only article Grayson ever wrote about Quinn on Kotaku.

http://tmi.kotaku.com/the-i...

For Rock Paper Shotgun, Grayson wrote an article about 50 recently greenlit games on Steam in which Depression Quest was on the list. That was it as far as a search on the site goes.

Here's the thing about these claims. If there was any legitimacy to these claims, wouldn't GamerGate be linking these articles and quoting them non-stop to prove their point? Of course they would. They don't because they're dead wrong. The evidence doesn't exist. It's just conspiracy nonsense.

So right there...if GamerGate were about ethics in journalism, shouldn't it have ended the moment it was revealed that the original claims weren't true? You'd think so. But instead, the mob just packed up their pitchforks and torches and moved onto condemning another target. Ethics in journalism indeed....

Edit below: Clearly both are talking about her.

Death1107d ago

The fans and the mob mentality that seems to follow are a much bigger problem than journalists. Fans don't require proof before going off the deep end and are never held responsible. Who is it that is still talking about Zoe anyway? Is it the fans or the journalists?

ReconHope1107d ago

Very informative. Thanks for the facts.

mixelon1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

Nice to see people going against the status quo here. :D

Maybe there's some hope for the commentariat after all!

... The fact you're getting such a ratio of disagrees/agrees pretty much proves how reality-averse these guys actually are. Still.

creatchee1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

The thing about GamerGate that amuses me is this:

If you check the comment history of the people on this site who support GG, you'll find that a majority of them are fanboys for one console or another. Not fans, but fanboys. They are the ones who repeatedly go into rival console-related threads and talk trash and start flame wars. And it's understandable, because the same mentality applies.

It's the "my thoughts are the only ones that matter and I will go to obscene lengths to disrupt and disparage anybody who disagrees with me" mentality. Basically, the idea that somebody else thinks they're right or at least being treated unfairly means that they should be treated WORSE and constantly reminded that they are foolish and horrible people for committing the grave offense of having a different point of view.

Honestly, I would have given GamerGate more credence when it started, but when I saw the who were supporting and propagating it, I knew that it was simply just another avenue of hate veiled under a supposedly worthy cause.