Top
320°

The Cornerplay: Xbox One's struggles are traceable to one bad decision

Microsoft made two important announcements recently. The first was about Office 365 becoming a game changer. Today, I'll(Jeffrey Yuwono from Techspot writes) touch on the $50 price drop for the Xbox One. From November 2nd to January 2nd, you can get any Xbox One SKU for $50 off, which makes the entry level version $350. That's cheaper than the Playstation 4 at $400....

Read Full Story >>
techspot.com
The story is too old to be commented.
DJ1503d ago

Agreed, GDDR5 meant more room to fit GPU units onto the PS4 APU die. And on top of that, the PS4 gets to perform at twice the speed of Xbox One.

Xbox One's design seems to be the result of infighting amongst various departments.

NextGen24Gamer1503d ago

The biggest reason Sony is ahead in terms of console sales is due to the fact that the Ps4 launched worldwide, while the xbox one launched in just a few countries up until recently. Xbox was never going to out sell the ps4 (world wide)no matter what ram they put in the console.

In regards to the USA, Xbox will likely surpass the Ps4 by the end of the holidays. All data I've seen shows that the Ps4 only has a 1 million console advantage in the USA.

Out of the 80 million xbox 360s that were sold, I would say only 10 million are hardcore gamers. Most gamers care less about the difference in Ram. For most gamers it's about playing the games that they want to play. In the USA xbox 360 & xbox One account for 50 million consoles sold. Ps4 & ps3 account for 30 million. Right now the ps4 has sold 4 million in the US & Xbox One has sold 3 million. There are a heck of a lot of gamers who haven't jumped on board yet. And I would dare to say most of the Hardcore gamers have already made a choice & jumped in to one console or the other or if they are like me they got both.

The doom and gloom is a little premature. The price cut coupled with Halo & COD advanced Warfare should make things really interesting in the USA.

All in all interesting read, though I disagree with his points.

BiggerBoss1503d ago

Do you REALLY believe that?

LamerTamer1503d ago (Edited 1503d ago )

The old worldwide release dodge. Seriously retire that talking point.

I do think the price cut will help, and they do have better exclusives this season than PS4. There are so many multiplats coming that are great this year though that I wont have time for them all. Most of those (except maybe for AC:Parity) will look and/or run better on PS4. When I am playing a game that looks/plays good I don't sit there worrying if it is exclusive or not, but I do enjoy the better graphics plus a good game is a good game.

Vegamyster1503d ago

The Xbox was never that big outside of the US and parts of Europe, the big issue i saw was how Microsoft handled their PR. The DRM & unclear message was a huge issue, you had Adam Orth & Don Mattrick blatantly insulting the consumer "Deal with it" "Don't have internet? Get a 360" ect, it doesn't surprise me at all that the PS4 is doing so well because Sony had the clear message. Out of the 3 consoles last gen i enjoyed my 360 the most but what they did turned me away from their product immediately, that being said Phil Spencer has done a good job cleaning the image up and I'm considering one for the Halo Collection.

TFJWM1503d ago

So the biggest reason PS4 is ahead is that they launched in more countries but than why is the Xbox behind in the US(and every territory they are both in).

I find it very hard to believe that during the holiday season even with a huge price cut that Xbox1 will sell more than 1,000,000 PS4s...

All in all your post is an interesting read, though I disagree because it makes no sense.

IGiveHugs2NakedWomen1503d ago (Edited 1503d ago )

@nextgen24gamer

"The biggest reason Sony is ahead in terms of console sales is due to the fact that the Ps4 launched worldwide, while the xbox one launched in just a few countries up until recently."

That's not exactly true. The "more markets" argument is pretty much irrelevant because in every market where both the PS4 and Xbox One have been released, the Xbox One has been outsold in every one, including North America. The article is right, first impressions and perceptions are everything. Even with all the negative attention that PSN and DriveClub have received over the past few weeks, the PlayStation 4 will still outsell the Xbox1 in North America for 2 reasons: 1- PlayStation 4 is perceived to be and has been proven to be the better machine; and 2- Microsoft left a bad taste in the mouths of consumers at E3 2013 and they sure haven't helped their cause by making ridiculous comments like the one Phil Spencer made claiming that the Xbox1 parity clause was in place to benefit Xbox One gamers. (FICTION)

You don't build a reputation in the gaming community by being leeches, parasites, and con-men, you build trust by asking for feedback and compromising with your customers. Yes i'm biased towards Microsoft for a reason, they are very well known for using double-speak, word games, and nickel&dime schemes to milk customers to death and increase their profits. Sure they've put another guy in charge of the Xbox division, but Microsoft will always be "Microsoft."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

http://gearnuke.com/microso...

http://www.buzztubeonline.c...

http://www.pcworld.com/arti...

Just because a snake sheds it's skin doesn't mean that it will stop being a snake.

mikeslemonade1503d ago (Edited 1503d ago )

"Perception is reality"

That's certainly one of the key elements of why PS4 is winning. PS4 is perceived to be the stronger console by a bigger margin than it actually is. The way casual gamers talk about the PS4 they make it seem like it's about twice as fast as the X1 but in reality it's way less than that. But perception is reality and MS chose to ignore the eventual negative PR, and now they are hurting.

However I disagree with ram being the main element. The world is still PlayStation. PlayStation brand still carries more mind share. In fact the PS3 prooved that it can outsell the 360 even at $150 more. So the X1 launching at $100 more you're gonna have the fence sitters choose PlayStation.

PlayStation 1 and PS2 were the main systems when the kids were 10 years old. Now these guys are 24-30 years old. They are deciding who wins the console war because they got the money to buy these systems.

This is how I rank the factors that decide the console war:
1. Brand
2. Price
3. System Specs (ram, resolution etc.)
4. Peer pressure from friends
5. Multiplat superiority
6. Exclusives
7. Online Service

aceitman1503d ago

So now x1 has launched in every territory including China which ps4 is not why is ps4 selling 2-3 times more world wide.

donthate1503d ago (Edited 1503d ago )

Some of the reasons why the PS4 is selling better are due to:

* the biggest reason though is the false information rampant due to the DRM reaction. This propelled the PS4 to so much hype that MS will have to deal with for long long long time.

* selling in almost three times more regions (it helps!)

* the unfortunate memory decision MS had to make, because they targeted a multi-tasked system that required more RAM. It wasn't just sourcing the GDDR5 that would be difficult at that size, but also the unknown cost. This led to some hugely graphically different resolution on the games.

* Playstation brand in Europe and Asia is very strong due to two generations of market dominance. Even when PS3 competed against the Xbox 360, it was these regions that kept the PS3 propped up. In the US/UK, the gap between PS3 and Xbox 360 was wider in favor of Xbox.

As you can see, MS is rapidly trying to fix the three bottom problems. The first one, which is the most difficult one remains lingering.

But it is quite amazing how MS is closing the huge gap every month between the two in the US. The situation has drastically improved, and with the great games and bundles, I think MS might have a chance at breaking even with PS4 this holiday.

Also, I think that as both an Xbox One and PS4 owner, I think this is the golden age for Xbox gamers. MS has never been more aggressive and motivated to win and the result is we have had amazing experiences compared to the PS4 which is just marred in problems after problems and almost no games. Sony doesn't have to try, they just keep selling based on word-of-mouth and the hype.

------------------

As an aside on the memory issue:

DDR3 was pretty much known, but a cascade of decisions had to be done. It was a bet, and Sony won, but imagine what it would be like if Sony lost, and had a 4GB GDDR5 memory console? Remember how Sony lost this exact same bet with the PS3? XDR had a higher bandwidth, but due to dedicated memory and the limited size of the PS3, the Xbox 360 won out and we all saw the result.

So previous generation it worked in MS favor, and in this generation it worked in Sony's favor.

This highlights the philosophical difference between Sony and MS.

The sort of news though is that this difference is in the grand scheme marginal. We have hit the
diminishing point of return.

To the naked eye in a blind test, I doubt the majority will be able to tell difference between 900p and 1080p and that gap keep shrinking.

Trekster_Gamer1503d ago

Look at the disagrees here at news for sony gamers, imagine that. This site breeds fanboys, if they would keep the Xbox One articles seperate from the ps4 rhetoric there might be less infighting.

I bought my Xbox One day one with no regrets. I have a better selection of exclusive games and no real noticeable different in the look of multiplatform. If a few extra pixels bothered me as much as it does the psfanboys here then I would get a pc.

shadyiswin1503d ago

i can agree with you nextgen24gamer, the lead in the u.s.a is very small and xbox one will easily surpass ps4 sometime next year. I have 10 friends who switched to ps4 and 7 who are coming back because of psn. You should see my facebook feed,its me trolling them,them defending sony,then they are slowly giving up and that $50 price cut put them over the edge,knowing they can sell there ps4 and get an xbox one with a game for maybe $75 is a deal,one friend is selling his ps4 and vita,he is totally done.

Yes the ps3 caught up to the xbox 360......but not in america. The xbox 360 has something like a 30 million lead in america,it's really not even close. Granted the xbox one has been out for less than a year with a $500 price point and the bad press and is only behind by a million,by the time halo 5 is here everyone will be singing a different tune while they pray uncharted will be better than tomb raider (which it wont be). Overseas is a diff animal,xbox one will always be number 2,only winning in months of halo gears and forza,but thats fine,all you need to win is america anyways.

Retroman1503d ago (Edited 1503d ago )

"There-are-heck-of-a-lot- gamers-who-haven't-jumped- o n-board-yet"

why-should-we-that-not-hardco re-gamers???-maybe-Sony-haaaas - not-contract-out-more-games-to - Dev. yet-games-we-like.not-every-ga mer-on-the-FPS-open-world-kraz e .
if-every-freakin-new-ip-only- be-open-world-games-and-Zombie - games-im-cool-with-my-ps3-with -VARIETY!!no-game-alike.

if-playstation-four-will-only -offer-fps-and-open-world-type -games-Zombie-games-why-get-of f -the-fence??? ?-we-been-through-this-for-7-y ears-already-why-should-we-gam e rs-go-through-it-again??
played-COD,Battlefield-and-th e-rest--im-tried-same-shit-sam e -format.

spacebar-broke

The93Sting1502d ago (Edited 1502d ago )

@GT67

Holy crap

A real life robot ladies and gentlemen!

W-h-a-t-'-s u-p b-u-d-d-y ?

"why-get-off-the-fence?? ?"

Lmao

PeaSFor1502d ago

your argument is invalid since the XboxOne is outsold weeks after weeks by the PS4 everywhere, yep even where the XboxOne is released.... hell even in its own backyard.

its_JEFF1502d ago

its so interesting seeing someone try to explain something that he can only see. The mind is fascinating, in its numerous ways it twists and turns to keep its own sanity.

It's clear that the PS4 launching in all territories isn't the reason why it's seliing more, you just simply have to look at the numbers by region where both consoles launched at the same time... but the when ones mind cannot cope with that reality so it twists and turns grasping at something that can provide some relief ignoring hard facts.... insanity.

To the ones saying that the X1 will out sell the PS4 in the US by the end of the year.... it's possible, but it's gonna be hard. Just think about what that means. If the PS4 sells 200k in November and 400k in Dec that would mean that X1 would have to sell 1.6 Million consoles from now till the end of Dec.

+ Show (11) more repliesLast reply 1502d ago
Yetter1503d ago

until I see this 'twice the speed' show up in some kind of actually game I'm very skeptical of this.

USMC_POLICE1503d ago

installing games is a lot quicker as is loading between levels and what not in game, i have both systems for the record.

WickedLester1503d ago

Tomb Raider PS4 60fps. Tomb Raider X1 30fps.

1503d ago Replies(2)
diesoft1503d ago

This will probably be an unpopular opinion but in a way it's not the worst thing for gamers for xbox one specs to be underpowered. That means that Microsoft will have to try harder with the important reason we play games in the first place: FUN.

Just like genesis vs super nintendo, sega had to try hard with great exclusives to win gamers over. If XB1 and PS4 were exactly the same, who would really give a damn which console they got then. It does suck XB is struggling to keep up so early in its life but if you're like me then just have fun with good games.

If you like good games, give me an agree. If you think it's all about tech now, give a disagree.

lelo2play1503d ago (Edited 1503d ago )

I have to agree with this article. Microsoft should fire the people responsibly for designing the Xbox One hardware. They designed a console that costs as much as their main competitor to produce, and yet it's roughly 50% less powerful. For me that's incompetence and a reason to terminate their contracts.

From the start everybody knew the X1 was a badly designed console, and yet Microsoft decided to continue with it's launch. Like the article points out, Microsoft will loose this console generation essentially because multiplatform games will always look better on the PS4. Most gamers will always purchase the PS4 version of a multiplatform game.

Jack of Death1502d ago

You suck @ lelo2play. Just stop.

WilDRangeRfc1502d ago

I have both and I bought COD AW and Fifa 15 on X1 so your talking shit,as shown over time and especially recently Xbox is the better choice for online gaming,voice chat quality and stability is far superior on Xbox,just like you can't argue that PS4 is more powerful (no where near 50%) you can't deny that Live is decades ahead of PSN

TheWatercooler1503d ago

PS4 isn't more power because of the ram. It's more powerful because it's graphics card is more powerful. PS4 is a 1.84 teraflop machine XBone is 1.31 end of.

The ram is just icing on an already tasty cake

sonic9891502d ago

My guess is that this time around both consoles were released at the same time thats why sony is dominating the same thing happened with the ps3 worldwide ps3 surpassed the 360 even though it was cheaper even though it was released earlier even though it had more games in the first 2 years but playstation as a brand is way more powerful than xbox worldwide.
The American market seems to only focus on the price not the brand in the country where I live they mock the xbox for being shooter centered on shooters and ( I know its bad ) for being American.
Btw most people do like Japanese products they have high quality stuff with the exception of apple which seems like they created a country of their own I cant see Microsoft succeeding ESPECIALLY against sony.

Magicite1501d ago

the curse of Mattrick.
dark touch of Mattrick.
damned legacy of Mattrick.
choose whatever...

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 1501d ago
Muzikguy1503d ago

He didn't say anything about a power brick in there. I can't believe I read all that. Seems to me that the DDR5 in Sony's console was always the smarter move. It has been one year already, and these articles are still being written. I guess we won't ever move on

Mega241503d ago

People feed from negative news, doesn't matter for which console/machine/corporation.

dcbronco1503d ago

That is the key right there. It is simply people following the views of a few really loud and persistent people. The fifty percent more power has yet to show. 1080 to 900 isn't proof of it. Also as the generation goes on I believe things will the cloud will play a role. Games will need better AI and physics and as they do Xbox will be in a better position to deliver that. That additional demand for GPU compute will show on multiplats. DX12 will also make Xbox more efficient than DX11 is now. I believe that efficiency will make the cloud a larger factor. Microsoft is pushing the cloud for business as well as consoles, you can bet the spring update will be huge for Xbox as the OS is moved to Windows 10. Windows 10 and Azure are made to work together and you can bet DX12 is being made with Azure in mind. And Xbox One was too.

badz1491503d ago

@dcbronco

"The fifty percent more power has yet to show. 1080 to 900 isn't proof of it"

wow! so much ignorance in just that 1 sentence!

"Also as the generation goes on I believe things will the cloud will play a role. Games will need better AI and physics and as they do Xbox will be in a better position to deliver that."

"That additional demand for GPU compute will show on multiplats."

"DX12 will also make Xbox more efficient than DX11 is now."

LOL. talk about being delusional! you blatantly disregarded proof that is already prevalent which is 1080p vs 900p in the PS4's favor, but then took all the PR words from MS that is yet to be proven as "proof" the Xbone is the better-built machine?!

sure, suit yourself MR.X!

larrysdirtydrawss1502d ago

dcbronco + 17h ago
That is the key right there. It is simply people following the views of a few really loud and persistent people. The fifty percent more power has yet to show. 1080 to 900 isn't proof of it. Also as the generation goes on I believe things will the cloud will play a role. Games will need better AI and physics and as they do Xbox will be in a better position to deliver that. That additional demand for GPU compute will show on multiplats. DX12 will also make Xbox more efficient than DX11 is now. I believe that efficiency will make the cloud a larger factor. Microsoft is pushing the cloud for business as well as consoles, you can bet the spring update will be huge for Xbox as the OS is moved to Windows 10. Windows 10 and Azure are made to work together and you can bet DX12 is being made with Azure in mind. And Xbox One was too.
#2.1.1

do you even know the % difference between 900p and 1080p? its quite a bit,then throw in the always better framerate on ps4 and better AA somutions, better shadows, better v-sync ect and you really start to see the %50 difference..... do you think that sony are sitting on their asses when it comes to tools? they make the best in the business and have been for years,,you think sony ice-team havent been making tools that are gonna make(and continue)ps4 even more efficient?

Yetter1503d ago

GDDR5. Great for graphics but a serious bottleneck for the CPU. We will see how this plays out over the next 5 - 10 years

LamerTamer1503d ago

Read the article. It mentions that due to the better speed of the GDDR5 in the PS4 it makes up for that bottleneck.

MasterCornholio1503d ago (Edited 1503d ago )

Let's hop on the garlic and onion bus and see how that solves latency issues with GDDR5.

:)

You do know what garlic and onion are right?

Jack of Death1502d ago

Maybe that's why it takes so long to get apps out and the OS is so shitty compared to xbox1. Wow just got the YouTube app on my PS4... but wait had to deal with my PS4 not coming out of standby mode... wtf. Sony fail!

babadivad1502d ago

@Muzikguy

I hate to be "that guy" but it's GDDR5[modified DDR3 for gpus].DDR5 doesn't exist yet. DDR4 just launched very recently. Probably won't see DDR5 for at least 3-4 years.

Mega241502d ago

Actually, DDR5 SDRAM already exists, slated to be commercially available between 2018-2019.

bmf73641503d ago

Article basically explains the architectuarchitectual flaw in the Xbox ones architecture of including the 32mb eSRAM.

It overall explains that if the eSRAM IS useds properly by developers that the system can be on par to the PS4, if not more powerful. However, it takes extra time to utilize this unique architect to the fullest extent so devs are simply leaving a lot of the X1's power unused.

Ive said it before that the Xbox One is on the same exact road as the Playstation 3 with its marketing and architect. Trying to breeze off of the success of its predecessor and using a complex system nobody understands with a multi-billion dollar investment wasted behind it. The PS3 had the CELL CPU which Sony IBM and a buttload of companies invested in. Microsoft spent billions of their own on Kinect but Sony never decided to remove the CELL CPU from the PS3 because developers complained or consumers never benefitted from it in the early run. However Microsoft unbundled the Kinect after saying over and over that it's part of the Xbox One.

Overall Microsoft has made it's decisions but if they simply stuck to them the Xbox One wouldve succeeded in the long run like the PS3.

MrSec841503d ago

ESRAM doesn't make the XBox One more powerful if developers use it correctly, it doesn't even close the gap between GDDR5 in PS4 and DDR3 in XBox One, you're talking about a tiny pool of memory, 256X smaller than GDDR5 in PS4 and one that is still 22GB/s slower in bandwidth.

In terms of RAW GPU hardware PS4 also has 2X the ROPs and overall 40% more GPU power, but it's also much more efficient because of the extra ACEs and the greater flexibility of GDDR5 because it can both read and write at once, while DDR3 cannot.

It's already been shown by Ubisoft that GPGPU actually pushes PS4 to 2X more performance than XBox, if both are pushed.

PS4 is a much more efficient design and a significantly more powerful one.

Yetter1503d ago

Whenever I see someone talk about the 'tiny pool' of ESRAM it is perfectly clear they don't have a clue what they are talking about.

And then you bring up GPGPU. Those benchmarks were specifically about GPGPU, the reason the PS4 is significantly better at it is because it depends on it, the CPU is gimped by high latency GDDR5 RAM. Thats right GDDR5 RAM has amazing bandwidth and awful latency which is why PCs use GDDR in their graphics cards and DDR for their CPUs.

Cerny specifically touched on how the PS4 is going to become more powerful as devs get better at GPGPU when the PS4 was announced because he was specifically asked about the CPU bottlenecks

Dudebro901503d ago (Edited 1503d ago )

@mrsec
Dont spew nonsense. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

LamerTamer1503d ago (Edited 1503d ago )

@Yetter

32mb IS pretty small. The article also talks about how the GPU in the xbone is much smaller and how the low amount of ROPs and compute units etc. will hurt it.

The CPUs in both are similar and pretty weak honestly. The CPU bottlenecks will plague both systems. What gives the PS4 the advantage is the extra GPU grunt.

The PS4 depends on GPGPU? I doubt many games are using it yet as most are ports, and even those tend to run at higher resolutions and have better lighting shadows etc than xbone.

MrSec841503d ago

@Yetter, 32MBs is tiny compared to 8192MBs, 32MBs is actually 256X smaller than 8192MBs of RAM in PS4 and that just happens to be where PS4's fast memory access is, not to some tiny pool of memory.
It's clear you have no clue what you're talking about if you're arguing against that point.

GDDR5 is actually about the same in terms of latency compared to DDR3, while also being more flexible because it can be both written to and read from simultaneously unlike DDR3.
GDDR5 doesn't limit PS4's CPU, that's a lie.
2133MHz DDR3 has very high latency compared to lower speed DDR3 and about the same level as GDDR5 in PS4.

GPGPU is a bonus, not some part of the design to offset CPU deficiencies, it means PS4 is 2X more capable of any tasks that GPGPU can handle, which includes Physics, AI, Lighting (proven by Q Games).
PS4 didn't just render nothing, it actually rendered higher character counts, because of GPGPU.

@Dudebro90 explain otherwise don't hate.
Educate yourself otherwise you look like a fool.

badz1491503d ago

MS should have gone 4GB DDR3 + 4GB GDDR5 combo from the beginning considering how they have always intended the xbone to work if they were really concerned about the overall cost.

maybe it's just me but this combo will serve both the CPU and GPU just nice for a closed system like the Xbone. DDR3 for the OS and GDDR5 with CPU+DDR3 assist for games. I think skipping GDDR5 for a x86 system that plays games in 2013 has always been the wrong choice from the start!

IGiveHugs2NakedWomen1503d ago

Yetter stop spouting nonsense...

It makes my heard hurt when I try to decipher your mumbo jumbo...

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 1503d ago
johndoe112111503d ago

"It overall explains that if the eSRAM IS useds properly by developers that the system can be on par to the PS4, if not more powerful".

The level of crap in that statement is mind boggling. You just keep telling yourself that buddy.

lemoncake1503d ago

X1 seems to be basically built around tiled resources being introduced, that 32mb suddenly becomes very powerful in that environment maybe even more so than the gddr5 and at a much better price point.

MrSec841503d ago

Both systems have tiled resources, it's standard AMD technology and it's called Partially Resident Textures or PRT for short.

eSRAM isn't powerful at all because it's memory and not processing logic.
It should also be stated that 8192MBs of GDDR5 at 172GB/s of real world bandwidth trumps 256X smaller 32MBs of eSRAM at 150GB/s real world speed.

In the case of PS4 GDDR5 is not only faster, it also has substantially larger storage capacity, while being just as flexible because it's ability to read and write simultaneously (unlike DDR3 in Xbox One, which also happens to be over 3X slower, because it's clocked at 55GB/s real world speed), only lacking in latency compared to eSRAM (not DDR3).

RAM isn't powerful, it provides the ability to feed processing logic and temporarily store data need for the hardware to use and PS4 has more of that.

MRMagoo1231502d ago

@MrSec84

It is always refreshing when someone knows what they are talking about, maybe go tell DCbronco up top about all the wrong in his post too please :)

From one MR to another well said bubble.

Crazay1503d ago

Yep. Don Mattrick.

'Nuff said

turdburgler10801503d ago

Looks like this author is a little late to the party. Folks had these articles for a few months after its launch.

Spenok1503d ago

Only a little late. You know, like 12 months or so xD