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Why do we (gamers) find it so hard to embrace disagreement?

It seems that attacks on the likes of Anita Sarkeesian and the likes have escalated to the point of pointless aggression. Ideally, the best way to to tackle disagreement remains healthy debate and discussion. Recent flare-ups relating to #gamergate have also painted a bad picture for gaming communities. MWEB GameZone asks the question: Why do gamers find it so hard to embrace different opinions and disagree with dignity?

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HanCilliers1130d ago

Cause entitlement and fanboyism is a real thing in gaming

plut0nash1130d ago

Or perhaps that they don't want to be seen as something other than what they've established themselves to be?

ABizzel11130d ago

THe Title is enough for a wonderful debate, the problem I've come upon why most gamers can't accept disagreements are exactly what @HanCilliers and @pluto0nash (lol Eddie) said.

But there's one more thing, Ignorance. I've never seen so many ignorant people make such ignorant comments and remarks about games ever before, and if you don't know the definition of ignorance it's lacking knowledge or information, and many of these uninformed fanboys (because I refuse to call many of the people on n4g gamers) have absolutely no knowledge or experience to draw from when they make most of their ridiculous claims, and what makes it so bad is that it's not just one sided, each fanboy with their platform bias is generally like this.

It's okay to have preference and identify yourself as a specific gamers of a certain brand, but it's also acceptable and mature for you to be able to appreciate a job well done from another platform. Just like it's acceptable and mature to see fault in something you enjoy that doesn't make it bad, or mean you have to hate it now, it's just something you can hope they improve upon.

In my experience these fanboys are like politicians, and so far gone to the left, right, north, or south (3 consoles, and PC = 4 directions) that there's little point in trying to discuss or have an educated debate with any of them, because they're childish and ignorant fanboys.

One side is completely ignorant and I have thus dubbed them "a new level of stupid", One side believes they're the gift of gaming, one side is just completely clueless and accepting of whatever befalls them, and the final side fells they above everyone else. I'm sure you can figure out who's who.

As a multi-console gamer I think it's just complete ignorance that causes these incidents, as I've had personal friends and family who fall into the same category of ignorance and have absolutely no experience with a "rival" platform yet 1 in particular claimed he would quit gaming if his platform of choice went away. "A new level of stupid" and ignorant.

MrPink20131130d ago

Lack of empathy

Immaturity

The fact they are anonymous with hardly any accountability

Narcissistic behaviour and only caring about their own opinions

Entitlement

Fanboyism and loyalty

These are all issues that pollute forums but happen quite frequently in game forums. Not much can be done about it.

zerocrossing1130d ago (Edited 1130d ago )

I really doubt "entitlement and fanboyism" has much to do with social justice issues.

The violent death threats and defensive arguments are coming from the vocal minority (As is typically the case) I don't condone such behaviour but then, it's nothing new. People all over the Internet have been threatened with rape and death threats for years, we just know to ignore such hollow threats now.

But then these feminists used those hollow threats as ammunition for their own agenda, painting all gamers as violent, women hating, sociopaths... And that is simply not the case, most gamers like seeing strong female characters in games, look at how popular Samus from Metroid is, the Boss from MGS 3 and Ellie from TLOU too.

Gamers are very progressive and forward thinking. I've personally had plenty of open discussions with people on and off of N4G regarding these "Social justice issues."

I think you'd find gamers far more willing to talk about these problems if people like Anita weren't painting us all as violent misogynists, afraid that women are going to take boobs out of games and start making us finally respect women (Which we do by the way).

Oppressive feminists like Anita, who used lies and deceit to back up their claims, they are the real problem here. Not the gamers who rightly called them out on it.

@plut0nash

"My only question is this: What is a threat were real? How would you differentiate that from a hollow one?"

My answer to that question is this: That one true threat is still not representative of (all) gamers.

Just because there are some gamers who actually are misogynists or sociopatths, does not mean we should all be lumped in with with them

Anita has generated a lot of hate towards herself due to lying and decieving others. Had gamers just ignored her she would have likely disapeard, but instead stupid people threataned her and she used those threats to further her cause.

Anita gained her popularity after being victimised for her opinons, or so it would seem. But when she was slowly falling into obscurity, what happened again? More threats that ended up placing in the limelight yet again.

I'm not saying she's using the hate to maintane relevance, but it sure does seem that way.

plut0nash1130d ago

There are plenty of them around, let's be honest. There are plenty others who choose to insult as opposed to dissect and criticise.

Some go as far as suggesting that Sarkeesian is in it for the money, and if you look at certain angles of her approach it certainly seems that way.

My only question is this: What is a threat were real? How would you differentiate that from a hollow one?

ABizzel11130d ago

@zero

There's a same pool of us mature enough to even be willing to have a "discussion" on n4g without it turning into a troll / fanboy war. There's a reason why flamebait articles are almost always at higher degrees than an educated article.

Trolls come here to see what's happening with their console of choice, then go looking for a fanboy war. And it's sad.

zerocrossing1130d ago

@ABizzel1

One of the biggest issues I've noticed on N4G, is how incapable so many people seem to be at ignoring blatant trolls and fanboys.

Trolls feed off of the attention and by getting into pointless arguments with them, we all just end up derailing the topic at hand.

Fanboys are often worse, because at least trolls are aware that they're talking nonsense. It's impossible to have a discussion with a fanboy because they will only ever see their (insert gaming device/publisher/developer/etc ) of choice as best and everything else is garbage by comparison...

SilentNegotiator1130d ago (Edited 1130d ago )

"There are plenty of them around, let's be honest. There are plenty others who choose to insult as opposed to dissect and criticise"

Yeah, but that's life, not gamers in specific.

HanCilliers1130d ago

Cause entitlement and fanboyism is a real thing in gaming <-- that was my reply to the title,

Why do we (gamers) find it so hard to embrace disagreement?

Ever seen a PS & MS fanboi pissing contest? It's like the can't disagree respectfully, it has to be all you this or you that shit

ABizzel11130d ago

@zero

"One of the biggest issues I've noticed on N4G, is how incapable so many people seem to be at ignoring blatant trolls and fanboys."

I completely agree. People like truefan get under the skin of so many of these people, and I look at it and laugh at some of the sheer ignorance of his comments. The only time i respond to a troll is to try to get them to change their ways, or when they're spreading lies and misinformation, which I simply post the truth and links supporting the truth.

But at the same time, this is also why I think users with 1 bubble after getting so many downvotes should get a temporary ban, then perma-banned. Why even let them stay here and troll all day long.

"Fanboys are often worse, because at least trolls are aware that they're talking nonsense. It's impossible to have a discussion with a fanboy because they will only ever see their (insert gaming device/publisher/developer/etc ) of choice as best and everything else is garbage by comparison..."

OMG yes 1000x. This is the n4g gospel if there ever was one. I have every platform, so I go into an article that interest me. And I can go in there and says this looks good, but it can be improved in area X, and area Y, and I will get disagreed and commented to death as if I just said the game is utterly trash.

It's absolutely ridiculous to me, and I've noticed that any remote criticism of XBO game brings the fanboys out in full force. Anytime you mention sales things looking better for the competition (specifically XBO sales growing from selling in more regions and finally offering things that could make it comparable to PS) the fanboys come out in full force. Soon as you criticize Nintendo for not catering to their core fanbase more instead of trying to get family and casual, because they know the core will come regardless fanboys come out in full force. And anytime you give credit where credit is due, and say a console game looks amazing compared to some PC games the fanboys come out in full force.

It's mind-boggling to me have someone can have such blind allegiance to a freaking piece of plastic + metal + transistors + resistors + logo.

Perfect example when the new Halo: MCC screenshots came out people instantly started comparing it to Destiny, and said it looks much better than Destiny.

My response:

"Destiny also has bigger maps, more players and AI spread across these maps at a given time, so it's not really an apples to apples comparison although the franchise was created by the same developer.

That being said Halo: MCC looks good, because it has such a clean look to it and the backdrops are gorgeous. The textures aren't top notch, and it could use some AA, but the overall look of the game and contrast of colors makes everything just pop."

And the disagrees started rolling in like wildfire, and it's just sad that most people stick to their console of choice, and only a few people are willing to speak up and debate in an educated manner, because they fear if their opinion doesn't match up with the majority then they're going to lose all their bubbles.

zerocrossing1130d ago (Edited 1130d ago )

@ABizzel1

Glad you agree.

It seems like a lot of people here (or online in general) just come to start trouble or blow off some steam.

As for user bans and bubbles. Yeah the bubble system is kind of broken. We have two kinds of one bubble users IMO.

Those who are either trolls or fanboys, or those who unfortunately don't share the majority opinion and are penalised for it... Good look differentiating the two.

We try not to ban users permanently because for one thing, it's pretty harsh. And on the other hand, you don't know how many other people have accounts under that IP address. We really wouldn't want someone getting band who didn't deserve it.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 1130d ago
Sillicur1130d ago

Anonimity breeds this kind of behavior as well

Blacktric1130d ago (Edited 1130d ago )

"I think that the discussion around Anita Sarkeesian comes down to one thing: Respect for the right to an opinion and an open mind."

"and an open mind"

So this has all come down to "lol nerds can't accept the fact that games are making people sexist!" again. How cute

Story Quality - WTF
Like This Website? - NO

plut0nash1130d ago

Hah. Since when does open-mindedness equate to blind acceptance of her ideals? No. The point made is that one has a listen first and then consider whether they agree or not. Blind resistance is just as bad a blind acceptance.

Gh05t1130d ago

The fact that you assume "Gamers" resist Anita blindly is the most ignorant comment I have read in a while.

I would say a majority of people know exactly why we don't like Anita. I bet if you asked Anita why we don't like her she wouldn't give you the same reason. Who listens to who?

I have seen many counterpoint videos that are well thought out and articulate many issue but I have yet to see Anita address any of the appropriate criticism of her videos.

Its not "Gamers" who are a problem, its individual people.

Blacktric1130d ago (Edited 1130d ago )

"Since when does open-mindedness equate to blind acceptance of her ideals?"

Ever since she started spewing posion whenever she opened her mouth in any one of her "Tropes vs Women" videos maybe? Sorry, but it perfectly equates to blind acceptance when nothing she says holds any sort of credibility that's backed up with facts or proper research.

Edit: Gh05t once again put it into words much better than I ever could.

"Its not "Gamers" who are a problem, its individual people."

There's your answer to the bulk of the complaints in the article...
If she showed us any credible evidence that proved games DO make people sexist (and by proxy, murderers since it also works the same exact way), I wouldn't have written a negative comment regarding this article.

Bimkoblerutso1130d ago

"Why do gamers find it so hard to embrace different opinions and disagree with dignity?"

Because these people are not communicating with "gamers."

There is an endless supply of evidence to support their argument because they literally pull it from an endless source. "The internet" is NOT "gamers."

I have yet to talk to a gamer in the real world that believes women should have no place in gaming. Not that they do not exist, but it does not DEFINE what gamers are by any means.

And then you also have to factor in that a lot of the level-headed gamers that ARE responding online are more upset over their recent misrepresentation in the media than they are over the issue of diversifying the industry.

You can only wrongly accuse an entire group of people of hating women so many times before they start calling you out on it. That's really why I think there is more activity than usual surrounding these events. I am angry because I am about as far from being a misogynist as I can possibly be, and yet that is who I am being lumped in with. It's insulting, and it is clearly a very manipulative tactic that most people are offended by.

hkgamer1130d ago

i dont think gamers find it hard handling disagreements. actually o dont think its a gamer thing at all. its more of an internet thing where many people including myself dont have the skills or cant be bothered to use any skills to write up a decent and constructive argument.

ABizzel11130d ago

@hkgamer

You make a good point.

"its more of an internet thing where many people including myself dont have the skills or cant be bothered to use any skills to write up a decent and constructive argument.

But my question to you is why bother, trolling or attacking, instead of just walking away. I don't understand the point of not adding something intelligent to the conversation. Who do you think takes these people serious when the first thing they post is a childish remark. I've ignored so many people on here it's ridiculous. I can enter a comment section and can only read about 1/2 the comments.

Not saying you're 100% guilty, because obviously I can still see your name so you're not ignored.....YET XD

hkgamer1130d ago

i dont really troll' i just get a lot of disagreements because i say things which people dont like to hear :P

however, my post meant that people dont post a constructive argument or discussion therefore only posting a one sided argument that is very pro or con.
so all we get are a bunch of pros from one side and a bunch of cons from another side, add that with hash tags and it looks like people are taking sides. taking the middleground, understanding both sides dont exist in these discussions and is there even a hashtag for being in the middle. just looks like black or white no grey middle area.

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