Jodie Rodgers: "Congratulations are in order for all you older ‘gamer girls’ out there; it appears you’ve reached the top."
Not true https://www.youtube.com/wat...
That sounds to us more that she doesn't want to be called a gamer, purely because she doesn't want to associate herself with the culture - despite admitting that plenty of women play games. The violence correlation stuff is a complete tangent that is irrelevant. It's true that games are primarily made by, and marketed to, men; but all that proves is that it's a male-dominated industry, not that the community itself is male-dominated.
Agreed, she only cites two studies and makes ABSURD correlative connections. But she is correct in dismantling the ESRB survey- Adult Women are NOT the largest growing demographic of gamers that play between 2-5 and 10-20 hours a week. The industry is changing, but the rancid core that sometimes does possess terrifying tropes persists. I agree with your core principle: http://n4g.com/news/1588735... Let's develop a discussion!
Your possible conclusion is as flawed as you claim hers to be, the difference is she has an academic background to back hers. Adult women are only the largest demographic in gaming when you expand gaming to include literally everything up to and including minesweeper and computer solitaire. Being the largest demographic doesn't mean anything when the core gamer, of which is most assuredly mostly male, spends the most on the industry and remains the longest. These studies by the ESA are so poorly done and only exist for singular purpose of publishers attempting to justify to their shareholders why they are going certain routes with their business models.
Now there's a feminist non-gamer that's not an idiot
They...they EXIST?? lol
lol, yes, because if you want an authoritative view on gamers, just ask the American Enterprise Institute. Excuse me while I go get my flat tire repaired at a Starbucks.
And of course, the flip side is if you want an authoritative view on gamers, just ask Anita Sarkeesian right? Or about 2200 people like the ESA?
Thank you so much for posting that link! I have been so angered by all that has happened surrounding gamergate and these attacks on gamers that my rational head is buried in a haze of confusion and anger. This video so eloquently explains my and countless other gamers thoughts. I wish this video could reach the masses! Although by posting it on n4g you have already done a great service to us. People who watch this, try to get behind this logic with intelligence and just don't troll the haters any more. Don't give them reasons to try to infiltrate our lifestyle choices.
Where was this video last month when we needed it? An actual unbiased look at the industry, from a middle aged educated woman no less. I'm just as angry when I see a macho muscley gruff male lead as I am when I see a scantily clad female sidekick. But it's in all aspects of mainstream entertainment, there's plenty of great work below (and sometimes luckily, above) the radar that caters to both genders equally and has something to say about the human condition. Or sometimes about the elvish and orc condition. And these are the games I tend to play, the books I tend to read and the movies I tend to watch. When I see a meet the spartans, an oprah book club best seller or a call of duty I just roll my eyes and get back to whatever it was I was doing, because I fully understand things aimed for a wide and broad audience tends to be watered down and say nothing about anything, its only further glorifying the idea that focus groups are a thing that still exist and sometimes those focus groups are full of misogynistic idiots from a bygone era raised on focus group entertainment, its a vicious cycle I guess.
"I'm just as angry when I see a macho muscley gruff male lead as I am when I see a scantily clad female sidekick." Sounds like you need to stop gaming I'd say.
@dragonknight Plenty of games that don't have that kinda stuff so I think i'll stick around. Of course you'd realise thats where I stand if you'd taken the rest of my post on board instead of concentrating on the aspect you quoted. I see it in all facets of entertainment regardless of medium. And I just push through it to the good, soulful stuff.
* A HUGE % of those women are playing games like Candy Crush & Farmville though. Those should be separate stats.
"But now, gamers are dealing with a new army of critics: gender activists and hipsters with degrees in cultural studies." Shots fired, shots fired!
In other words, Marxist spoiled brats.
No they are not, Pay 2 win mobile and facebook games that seem to draw females in like moths to a flame DO NOT COUNT.
A Game is a Game and a Gamer is a Gamer no matter what Gender. The problem is that there are now people whom want to categorize gamers into subgroups based on gender, what next Race or Religion? Is it right to start saying X amount gamers are Black vs Y amount of White? @Pintheshadows I played PONG as a 6 Year Old on an Atari 2600 and I consider myself one of the first generation of gamers, so Yes they are one of the first mobile gamers!
By your logic, someone who only played Snake on a Nokia 3210 is also a gamer. The fact is, there are different degrees of everything. The tags have nothing to do with a gender either. There are both male/trans/female people who take part in this activity to varying degrees. Using the everyone that plays a game is a gamer logic all games should be marketed to everyone. They aren't though. Everyone has different tastes and interests and whilst I disagree with segregating our community based on sex or race (which is a truly abhorrent idea) the tags will always exist. 'Casual and Hardcore' And the hardcore will always sneer at the casuals, as we are the gaming equivalent of movie snobs. And lets face it, it would also be insane to attempt to market a game like Outlast to my 60 year old mother. @DeadRabbits Your edit addressed none of my points at all. You really think playing Snake makes someone a gamer? Your requirements are too low my friend. And good for you. I also played Pong on an Atari 2600. The difference is that was the PINNACLE of gaming back then. That is no longer true. The likes of Candy Crush are stepping stones at best. And if they get people to buy some serious kit then good, but if that is all they play, I am sorry, but they are a 'casual'. They are doing nothing to move the industry forward by investing in truly brilliant experiences. They aren't going to be buying games that will help the industry to move forward and evolve. They are buying cash cows exclusively. They will never try a Journey.
You are absolutely right. A game is a game. However the reason for doing a study like this is to analyse the market. But we always get extremely vague info. We have so many studies telling us who is playing, but not what they are playing and where they are playing.
@tekolie, I wonder how much "what they are playing and where they are playing" actually matters. Big game publishers releasing $60 games have their target demographics in mind - they're not going anywhere, and they have that detailed data you're looking for as proprietary information. Often that type of data in other industries is released in an expensive paywalled trade report meant for other business insiders. Look into Nielsen PRIZM to see the types of groups that are most likely targeted by games - their up-to-date data on the groups is paywalled, sure, but some of their definitions are at least available. And what if 60% of all gamers are only using iPhones and games costing $0-$7? Does that mean they're not gamers? Mobile gamers may be exploited via Candy Crush as console gamers are exploited via day-one DLC or season passes for crap stuff down the line. Mobile gamers can be pretty freaking hardcore in games like Super Hexagon or Wayward Souls, or really casual in Angry Birds. Console gamers can be pretty freaking hardcore in games like Dark Souls 2 or really casual in single-player Call of Duty campaigns. I think it's more important to know that "gamers" on the whole are diverse, and that there are women out there to make games for - the exactly what-and-when about it is often kept behind closed doors, but such is capitalism.
By that logic, a board game is also part of gaming. My sister played Monopoly once.. she's such a hardcore gamer.
I'd be remiss to not include my friends who play 5-6 hour sessions of Arkham Horror or Caylus in a "gamer" category. Or the top Go players, for that matter. Yes, board game players are gamers, as people who read Web news articles or eBooks are still readers.
@MoveTheGlow I absolutely agree with you. I was really trying to highlight how you can't start or end the conversation with this simple bit of information. If anyone wants this discussion to move forward there needs to be more public info. At this point in gaming though I feel as though demographics are FAR less defined by biological differences than it used to be. Which really is what confuses me about the whole conversation. Gamers have all sorts of backgrounds and interests to the point where being Male, Female, White or Black become irrelevant to whether you like something or not. (In fact I'd argue that goes far beyond gaming these days in the western world at least.)
The pope's elbow once rubbed against a joystick. The pope is a gamer.
A game is a game is a game.
Really? Do you honestly believe that? There is no difference in the type of consumer between an only angry bird player and an only Call of Duty player?
Someone should to do a survey on console gamers.
Yea, a place I worked a few months back was full of middle-aged women playing Candy Crush all day on their smartphones. Going back and forth on how to get past certain stages. I'm not sure that should be included in the argument of women being the largest demographic, if they only play certain smartphone games and don't touch consoles or even deeper gamer games on iOS/android. It's just a way to try and make devs look bad and like they're excluding females unfairly. I don't mind games pushing for more females as main characters, but I hate it when devs are being yelled at and forced to change their creative view by some random feminist groups that don't even come off as gamers. For instance, the Assassin's Creed Unity trailer comes out, then immediately afterwards there's dozens of angry feminist articles about there being no female assassins. Now we know there are female assassin's in the game, but they couldn't hold their breath for a second just because the original trailer didn't show any. That is very annoying.
yeah I don't buy it with all gaming drama that's happened recently don't try to tell me their isn't a agenda present behind these articles
lol @ people thinking that because more females prefer casual games (and they have wider market expansion) it means they also play the core games in equal magnitude. I tire of those misconstruing statistics to push a point. Yes, more women play video games than men (this has been the case for years) but it's the KIND of games they play. I'm not going to do the research for people, but look at the studies that showcase how many hours each group of gamer puts into what kind of game. Also, search up who plays what games more (surprise, surprise, there are more female mobile gamers than male mobile gamers). The ESA is counting the entire gaming spectrum, from core games to casual games and all the browser and Facebook games in between. More women play Farmville than men, just the same as more women play online checkers, Bejeweled and Candy Crush Saga than men (which has helped King profit pretty big over the past couple of years). Women play games, yes, but are they the blood and guts, shoot'em up types? Not quite. You'll find studies showing that casual gamers prefer mobile devices to home consoles, and you'll also find studies showing which gender demographic prefers playing most on consoles for 20+ hours a week. Vague assertions based on generic statistics can be manipulated to suit any argument.
Nope. And what poorly written article.... How about..."lets treat everyone with respect." Let's start there.
Sorry you didn't like the article; we welcome alternative views.
ContinuePlay, What you were trying to say is, of course, welcomed. I took issue with the following assertion, "Not only that, but the gaming community itself has been recognized as a sexist one, especially by the media and people who experience video games not through playing them, but through knowing others who play." Much of your article hinges upon this general proposition. Relying upon "media" as proof of sexism in the gaming community is not a compelling source. In my opinion, for this to be a compelling article, there would need to be cites to research and studies. Relying on "media" is circular logic and does not impart any insight or logic. I also find the overall message of the article difficult to ascertain. Of course, I agree with this paragraph: So what can we do to make things better? Well, a start would be to set an example to others. Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. I know, that sounds like phrase that comes directly out of the Bible and that’s because it is, Tomb_Raider_Reboot_Lara_01actu ally (Luke 6:31, look it up); but it’s the truth. In order for the gaming industry to gain the respect we so deserve, we need to drown out the cries of those who wish to lessen us by becoming a community which parents wouldn’t mind their kids being a part of, a community which someone wouldn’t be ashamed to associate with, a community which can be regarded with respect, the respect that other forms of media have demanded before us." However, before the article gets there, it must first say why "gamers" are horrible and sexist. Obviously, Continue Play can write whatever it chooses, but this could have been a well received piece about treating everyone with respect instead of a fly by, poorly researched, hit piece.
My mum still refers to my gaming devices as Megadrives. Never fails to make me laugh. My favourite one was on the phone to her recently. She clearly knew I wasn't paying much attention. 'Are you playing your Megadrive?' 'Well actually mum, for once you are right. I am playing Golden Axe 2 right now... and yes, that is why you don't have grand kids yet.' She only plays Candy Crush. I don't think this 'study' is entirely accurate. Whilst they may play on mobile, I would hardly consider my mum (for example) to be in the same league as someone who sinks 100's of hours into Dark Souls, or even someone who does the same in a FIFA (I do, I have to be honest) or a Call of Duty. There are always different degrees to an activity. I wish more people would realise this and try to stop thinking of things in such a black and white way. There is a reason the 'casual gamer' tag exists.
you're right. that's like calling someone an athlete because he went for a walk.
I know one female gamer friend very much into games and she isn't into candy crush. This new casual audience aren't gamers in a similar sense to those that only buy FIFA games. In fact I'd imagine it's frustrating for hardcore female these days being labeled in this same bracket
They must be referring to phones and pads, because when I go online all I seem to be met with is a bunch of "harda**es"!
Yea maybe with mobile games not console games.
Mobile games aren't "true" games! When will the stupid learn that consoles are the main gaming market, in which women of any age group does not dominate gaming. Futile filths!
Of course they MUST be casual! They couldn't possibly be core gamers like us! It takes testosterone to be a core gamer.. Stay classy N4G
It's not that they 'Couldn't possibly', it's that the actual research strongly suggests that they're not.
Or, ya know, "core gamers" tend to be male by an overwhelming margin. http://www.datagenetics.com... Its not a "must" be testosterone, it is merely that it "IS." Not that "IS" can't change, but gotta start with facts first. Also, to Saito's point, do you think that casual candy crush type games should be discussed in the same way as "core" games? Is there no difference in your mind?
I think you people are just nitpicking. Even if they were all core gamers you'd still find another excuse to invalidate the female gamer.
There is nothing in my post that in any way invalidates a female gamer. Nor is here anything in the link I posted that "invalidates" female games. Games are fun, and the more the merrier. Viewing who are the primary audiences for certain types of games is necessary to view the topic objectively.
Oh, shut up. Damn tired of these faux feminists and white knights pushing their agendas. Women do not make up the majority of gamers, and no poorly conducted survey with a vague result but obvious intentions can change that. A gamer doesn't just play games any more than a teacher tells people things, or a pro driver turns a steering wheel.
Candy Crush is not a game.
Thank you candy crush
The enthusiast side is still packed with men. There's really no need to do a headcount when it comes to this. We all know it's true.
"Congratulations are in order for all you older ‘gamer girls’ out there; it appears you’ve reached the top" Last i heard there was never a competition between Men and Women on who Gamed more.Why are Women making a big deal out of this...This is so silly.It's like they're trying Soo hard to prove something to us men...I say get over yourselves Ladies.
Yeah, about that. Talk about painting with a broad brush. Not every female gamer wants or needs to "prove" something to male gamers. If anything, stories like this seem to bring out the kneejerk defensive reaction of some men, like they're insecure. Generalizations aren't helpful.
If you are offended by what i said then i apologize.But this is how i feel and i stand by what i said.We are all entitled to our opinions And believe me i'm not trying to be offensive towards Women. Have a nice day my lady! ;)GAME ON
I'm an adult female gamer, and I play both casual and core games. It's not an either/or proposition. The fact that a company like Bigfish Games - which specializes in Hidden Object/Click Adventure, Match-3, etc. - sells millions of games a week at a much lower price point than console games - proves that it's a very viable market. Just because anyone here may not consider casual games to be "real" games doesn't matter in the slightest to game companies. There's plenty of room for different game types and gaming styles. Just as video games are no longer the sole domain of nerds - which they were when I started gaming, back when you didn't actually proclaim yourself a 'gamer' - they are no longer just for teenaged boys. Relax a little. You'll still get your Halo, your God of War, and your Super Smash Bros. It's just that the nature of gaming has changed as technology has become cheaper and more mainstream. A lot of middle-aged men rock Candy Crush, Bejewelled, and Peggle. too. ;-)
so many scared little boys bleating about how "women only play casual/mobile games" do women in gaming really threaten you that much?
Ridiculous crock of shite trolling article meant to inflame more gender war garbage.
Yeah... no. No offense at all, but this is simply not true. Sorry.
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