SIG: High X360 Attach Rate May Be a Negative

Microsoft's attach rate for its Xbox 360 just keeps on growing it seems. That's a good thing, right? Wrong, say SIG analysts Jason Kraft and Chris Kwak. They believe that the growing attach rate is actually a sign of the 360's poor health.

Each time Microsoft sends out a release to promote its Xbox 360 business, the company tends to highlight a number of statistics, including those for its expanding games portfolio, Xbox Live usage, and the Xbox 360 attach rate. Currently, the attach rate for the system stands at an impressive 5.2 games per console. But is this actually a healthy statistic? Susquehanna Financial Group analysts Jason Kraft and Chris Kwak argue that this high attach rate may actually be bad sign.

"If the Xbox 360 sports an attach rate of ten by holiday 2007, it will probably be because it has failed to gather critical momentum."

The duo continues by pointing out that the majority of 360 owners are the hardcore gamers and early adopters who typically buy more games. In order for a console's install base to grow, more casual gamers (who generally have lower attach rates) need to come on board...

[bung tickler]

this just doesnt sound right. i do not see how if 7 million people own an xbox 360 and on average each one of those people buy 5 games how this could possibly be a bad thing... it would be better if they only went out and got 1 or 2 games? just because the average ps2 owner only had 2 games (which isnt really true because a large percent of the systems sold were not sold to new people they were sold to people whose first system took a crap on them something like 33% so if you do the math that would be an attach rate of 3 not 2) doesnt mean that once those same ps2 owners "jump in" that they will continue on the same buying pattern. maybe, just maybe, they actually like the 360 better and enjoy the games more... so in turn they buy MORE games. i swear people are so dumb. i dont know how they get paid for this crap.

[Voodoochild]

These people are complete idiots. How can a successful attach rate hurt a game console. To this one I have to shout a big WTF!!!

[Silver Bull3t]

what kind of inverted retard logic is this... um yeah, so now selling software (where the $$ comes from) is a BAD thing?...

[Xtrm L1481L1TY]

You took the words right out of my mouth. Who TF came up with this dog and pony show?

[TheXgamerLive]

It's the obvious truth.

[Silver Bull3t]

newsbot should be taken offline and flogged. No more news from Dumbass Daily please!

[power of Green]

Does this make any sense to any of you?. PS2 was a trendy console not having one was like not having a TV PS2's low attach rate isn't reflective of healthy casual growth, PS2 was a must have item like the Holly Wood indorsed Wii. PS2 was a fluke with lots of good luck.

I keep hearing 360 only has hardcore fans as of right now, but in my reality all my girl friends (or friends that are wemen) don't play disc games and bought the 360 for the Juke box capabiliites and Arcade games not to mention a video phone.

Alot of my buddies dads have a 360 for COD's, RIDICULOUS!.

[Raist]

PS2's attach rate is 10, actually.

[Antan]

Ludicrous.

[Grown Folks Talk]

he didn't write it. i would think that if hardcore gamers buy 8-10 games per, and casual gamers buy 2-3 per, then that still equals a lot of sales.

[Silver Bull3t]

Isn't newsbot N4Gs automated news troller program?... It just looks for keywords and posts the story.

[Dusk]

it could mean that there are some quality games on the 360 that people want to buy. I find it hard to believe that the fact that many games are being purchased for the 360 is a bad thing. This article doesn't make much sense to me. The first adopters of all consoles (or anything for that matter) are usually the hardcore. Casuals wait for price drops, are just slower to adopt, adopt once many of their friends do, wait until they have extra money, etc. 'Casual' consumers will also go for the cheaper product, which in this case is the 360 for HD gaming, online, etc. and the Wii for kiddie games and a different style of interface.

Either way, more games being purchased means more money for developers. More money for developers means more games developed for the 360. More games for the 360 means more 360 owners. More 360 owners means more games being purchased. And the cycle goes on.....

In no way is this possibly a bad thing. In fact, it's quite the opposite. These 'analysts' are retards and this is just another sorry attempt to pee on someone's parade.

[rexdriver]

Maybe PS2's attach rate was low because most people were playing pirated games? I can't imagine even a casual gamer spending $$$ on a console and not try to stretch that capital layout with more than 3 games. I personally bought well over 10 games within half a year.

[BIadestarX]

Ok, let me get this straight!
If Sony attach rate is less than one they are winning. And if microsoft attach rate is 5 than microsoft is in trouble because selling games is bad.
ahhhh ahahahahaha! Sorry I had to. This is the first time someone turns attach rate on any console as a bad thing; considering the fact that it is the only(and accessories) way console manufacturers(except Nintendo) makes a profit since they are losing money on each console sold. I guess microsoft should stop making games so the attach rate can be like Sony.

[THAMMER1]

360 owners are getting games and loving them. There is nothing wrong with this. But I do see where the 360 is leaving out casual or less experienced gamers.

XBL arcade is O.K. me. But it's not enough some people need more flare in the games offered. The Wii is the perfect option for those people. Because casual gamers tent to care less about graphics and more about bright colors and cartoons.

[power of Green]

Yep! PS2 did win many fans because of it's cartoon loving sub culture.

If MS pushes more colorful Anime "QUALITY" tittles like Blue Dragon and Viva and that Aracde game that's comming out tomorrow they'll do fine competing against Nintendo.

I still think the Wii will not do so well after the Holly Wood launch crazz dies down.

[PS3n360]

all they are saying is that hardcore gamers are the only ones buying the 360 thus the high attach rates. once the hardcore gamers are consoled up then sales will slide on the software front. It makes very grey fuzzy sense but they are merely guessing that the casual gamer wont buy into the M360. I personally bought 10 games since launch because they were great games I wanted to play and I am a passionate casual gamer not a hardcore gamer.

[power of Green]

It's nonsense there's no getting around it. I'm a casual gamer also i just now earned over 2000 points after owning the 360 for 8 months.

People will be buying the Wii(for Now) and the 360, Casual gamers dont spend $600 bucks for console's So i guees he saying the Wii is the console people will buy with the 360 trailing with little but soon to come casual disc games and it's very casual new built for the 360 Arcade games.

[drewdrakes]

Theyre right, MS should stop selling games altogether and just sell the console. It will just sit pretty in peoples houses.

[DJ]

that a high attach rate this early on means that a console isn't selling as fast as it should. When a console is brand new, most people only buy one or two games with their system, so when the attach rate is something like ten games per console it means that sales are becoming stagnant.

Their statistics are including all owners, ranging from people who bought their systems a year ago to those who bought it yesterday. I hope that makes sense for you guys. The PS2, for example, has a lower attach rate because it's still selling at an incredibly fast rate and new owners haven't had a chance to buy that many games for their systems. Old owners, like myself, have purchased 20~30 titles over the past 6 years while fresh owners who barely got their's a month or so ago barely have one or two.

The one problem I see with this though is that the term 'high attach rate' is very subjective. Some people think 5 games per console is high, and others think 20 games is instead. How you compare attach rates between consoles that don't have matching shelf-lives is a bit difficult as well.

[power of Green]

I! see!, if MS was selling more console's People that already have one will not buy so many games i understand now thanks!.

Only if MS would have Sold lets say 20 million people wouldn't buy as many very high scoring games. Even if the casual market was half of the 360 fan base how much difference is it really going to make?.

Sony's low numbers of console's and the time it takes to make them; Sony had better hope they have an high attach rate to make the money back so i guess attach rate is an double edged sword ofcouse the 360 side of the sword is not sharp as this artical is complete BS.

[TheXgamerLive]

I know statistics and this is BS. He's making an incomplete point though, due to the Xbox 360 's strong and continued sales. Ya see if he had seen the attach rate is a current 2.1 he'd of said Hmmm this sounds good, the Xbox 360 must be selling a million units a month, no no no no, the so called hard core of us, may have 10 games where as newbies may have 4 so there's the true explanation and not his watered down sony robotic drewl. The attach rate is a positive thing as long as the consoles continue to sale like they are. Not a negative thing. This is good b/c we know that some 2 plus million units have sold in the past couple monthe or so, if sales had stopped at 5 million or 3 million well that's a different story, but a fony sony will alway's try to prevaile. Sad, again just sad.
DJ, go and justify w/some more idiotic logic why the ps3 with it's less than 270,000 sales worldwide is a good thing, lol!! Remember there's a link to this proof, and it's a worldwide sales link.
http://nexgenwars.com/

[Silverwolf]

Doesn't M$ and Sony make there money for there lost in hardware by selling software? This is without a doubt the dumbest article ever!

[DJ]

even at $180. The slimline PS2 on the other hand has been selling at a significant profit since the system only costs $98 to manufacture.

I know it's hard to believe, but the author is actually making a correct observation...to an extent. What's missing is a comparision of how many units of software are selling per month (or even better, per week), and comparing that with complimentary hardware sales. Of course, some of you are jumping the gun and crying like a bunch of wussies because someone posted info that makes the 360 look bad.

The hostility on this site is pretty laughable. I get attacked even when I make positive statements about Microsoft. Hell, even Topgamer can't stop talking about me, haha.

[Aflac]

Are these guys frikin retarded?! Does it not occur to them that perhaps there's a LOT of games worth buying asapfor this system?! These guys must have been the "school retards" back in highschool.

[ElementX]

They're picking up! The holidays are right around the corner.

[Indigo]

C'mon wtf 360 is kickin @ss people are buying games cuz let's face it there's so many to chose from. Whereever the hell this guy came from he was probably paid to make such foolish statements. Keep on bringing the games M$ and when Halo 3 hits ill pick up my 360 bundle and kick some @ss with everyone else.

[Dusk]

The other issue that skews the PS2 attach rate numbers is that the PS2 has been out for a long time. Long enough that many of its fanbase have had their PS2s crap out on them after their warranty expired. Therefore they buy a new PS2 (especially since it's cheap now), but already have the games. This skews the attach rate because Sony classifies these new PS2 purchases as new owners to inflate their 'total number of PS2 users' number. This inadvertently makes it look like PS2 owners don't really buy a lot of games. This isn't true, however, it's just that there aren't quite as many PS2 owners as Sony would have you believe. Those PS2 owners that do exist (which is still a ton), however, do buy more games than the listed PS2 attach rate.

Since the 360 is still very young, no one buys a new 360 if it craps out, as it's either covered by a warranty, repaired for free by MS if it was a launch console, or repaired for $130 if it is not. These don't count as new 360 users and keep the attach rate more accurate.

As for this article, the 360 sales are picking up, not diminishing. Therefore, these jacktards' theory of the 360's high attach rate being bad is just foolish.

[power of Green]

Goop point.

[power of Green]

Good point.

[DJ]

"many of its fanbase have had their PS2s crap out on them after their warranty expired." I know 1 person out of 25+ PS2 owners that have had their system crap out on them (the issue was not being able to read CDs, DVDs still worked). I've had mine since March 2001 and it still works without a hitch.

[Balance]

ok i think what they mean to say if the attach rate is too high it is because console sales are not keeping up. for example 10 people buy the 360 and buy 5 games each (5 attach rate) good yes?
but if the attach rate goes to 10 it means those people bought 5 more games each (still good). but if the attach rate goes to 2.5 that means they sold 10 more 360s (assuming the new consoles didn't buy any games). if MS stopped selling 360s the attach rate would sky rocket as people who have one keep buying games and no more consoles go into the denominator. the only time attach rate is a good stat is near a launch because you get an idea of how many games people actually buy with each new console (this was very good for the 360 and very bad for sony). once a console has been out awhile it doesn't make a ton of sense to use attach rate since people who have one will buy games, so as a 360 owner if i buy 2 games a month this is good but i am not out buying 2 consoles a month. after a launch a good system will always have a high attach rate because i have a console and am buying games, there aren't enough people in the world to keep up with my game buying. another example, i bought gears of war (love it) if everyone who has a 360 buys it (and they should) GOW just sold 7 million copies for the attach rate not to go up MS would have to sell 7 million 360s that month.

and yes hardware sales are not slacking off, the 360 just has so many good games it is driving the rate up faster than consoles are being sold.

[TheMART]

Although I don't believe in actual sales counted, this is funny from nexgenwars.com:

"28.7%
pick Xbox 360 consoles sold

7,212,342

market share:
17.5%
pick PS3 consoles sold

267,965"

PS3 stopped counting. 360 going strong. Going to 7.5 mln soon. And millions of customers shopping this holiday season for the next gen gaming experience.

Seeing Gears of War on the demopods rocking, seeing Resistance being COD3 with some aliens. And having the best version of COD3 on the 360. For the kids and girls Viva Piniata.

360 will sell 10 million just like MS predicted. Last year, when 360 launched, over 700.000 were sold in December. Then there were shortages. Now we're at half November. Enough 360 consoles produced. Millions are sold in November/December

[THAMMER1]

10,000 and hour since last week after the PS3 launched. So people that are hate 360 are just trying to hard to hate and it is ugly. Your hate is the #1 reason why your cause is fruitless and also the reason why others will not join you.

Stop the Hate the 360 has proven to be up next. ROLL WITH IT BABY. JJJJump IN!!

[Boink]

I can see the MS execs sitting around the table at the boardroom going:

"GUYS WE ARE IN BIG TROUBLE, WE ARE SELLING TOO MUCH, if we keep this up we will do nothing but make money, and that is no good.get the bomberman people to make more games like that, that should stop this terrible trend."

sigh...

[willymcd]

add in to the calculation that many xbox 360 come in package deals that come with games. this could have an effect on the attachment rate.

[THAMMER1]

Click let him speak add positive feed back and help me get my bubbles back. Thank you for your support.

[TheMART]

Man don't mind about the bubbles. One is taken from me also, but it's very randomly, because the largest Freaking Fony Fanboys are still running around loosing no bubbles.

Don't mind. You have four, make your posts extra long instead of having five. I wouldn't mind, if I'd had one, I would wright a book in it commenting on every post made that I would react on haha

[PS360PCROCKS]

Lol damn you Microsoft how dare you sell a system with good enough games for everyone to buy atleast 5!! Shame on you Microsoft, shame on you...this is totally moronic

[specialguest]

you idiot, you should lose a bubble for that comment. Newsbot is the most unbaised member here. he doesn't even post comments, he just post news. better watch what you're saying about Newsbot, cus i have a feeling he's most likely a mod, or a friend of the mods.

on a side note, yeah this article does not make any sense.

[Silver Bull3t]

I know, I'm just totally out of control.. meh.

Now go back and read post 7.1

[Aflac]

"18.3 - Why do I keep seeing this statement:
DJ - 9 Minutes ago | Let him/her speak
"many of its fanbase have had their PS2s crap out on them after their warranty expired." I know 1 person out of 25+ PS2 owners that have had their system crap out on them (the issue was not being able to read CDs, DVDs still worked). I've had mine since March 2001 and it still works without a hitch."

My first ps2 was defective from the start, I brought it back to compusa (i bought their 2yr replacement plan ;-) so that I ouldnt be forced to buy a new one by sony). But my second one didnt have a problem for the 5yrs i had up to the day i sold it. so, some ppl got lucky, otheres didnt, this is how it is with many consoles.

[Dusk]

for you concerning your opinion that the PS2 was flawless.

http://www.ps2settlement.co...

[DJ]

when did I state "the PS2 was flawless"? Never. Yes, there were a few issues since some users complained about the laser issues, and I was even kind enough to state that one of my friends suffers from the problem. He was thinking of buying a slim-line, but the PS3's already out so he'll just get that instead. Yay for backwards compatibility.

What bothers me is that anti-Sony people are claiming that the company only sold 106 million units because the majority of their stock was faulty. Talk about fanatic jealousy at its worst.

[ElementX]

With the money people would use to buy a PS3, they could buy a premium 360 and a couple games.

[marcusfenix]

http://unscleric.com/Infowa...

[THWIP]

SIG is assuming that new adopters of the 360, are only going to buy maybe one game....which is f***ing retarded.

Many of the well-over-100 360 titles, have been discounted to $30-$40...and alot of gaming retailers have monthly specials, which make them even cheaper. Bundles, 2-for-1, 3-for-2, etc. are some of the ways people are given the ability to purchase more software for their $.

Compared to the 360 launch window (which was still the strongest hardware/software launch IN HISTORY), the current software lineup is HUGE, with several AAA EXCLUSIVE titles, that many having been waiting to play for a looong time.
When I bought my 360 last Nov. 22nd, I picked up 5 titles: 2, of my choice (COD2 and Condemned), came with the bundle, and I also picked up Kameo, PDZ, and NFS:MW.
I can GUARANTEE you, if I'd managed to wait an entire YEAR for the 360...which would have been impossible...I would've had my $$ saved, so I could pick up NO LESS than 10 games....likely more like 15. Although I've traded some in,along the way, I've bought 19-20 360 titles in the past year.
THAT is the reality, and the reason the 360 is so strong; it has an amazing lineup of software...with a ton more on the way. By comparison, Sony has pretty much nothing...R:FOM, and maybe 5 other titles in the next year worth getting.

[EasilyTheBest]

Lets just say theres 30 of us on this post and we all got 360s apart from DJ of course.
We ALL buy 100 Xbox360 games NEW from the shops. Right, thats bad for Microsoft WTF!!!
I can see their are trying to say only hardcore gamers buy more than just 2 games so 360 hasnt sold to casual gamers yet. But thats just STUPID, whos to say that casual gamers havent started buying 5,6 and 7 games per console. This post has no logic to it what so ever...STUPID STUPID STUPID... Ive said before, Sony is losing something like $300 per console if no one buys any games after buying a PS3 Sony loses money. Microsoft should go out and buy all the PS3s that become available and just stick them in an empty warehouse, or better still sell off the bits, you know the hard drives, the processors, it ll cost SONY billions.....

[FadeToBlack]

I currently own 15 games! If people like me continue to buy games microsoft is doomed!!!!

[tackleb0x]

There have been a ton of quality releases for the 360. I dont think its alarming that people like to buy good games.

[original seed]

trying to make up for POOR software sales PS3 games had? :)

[mephixto]

Imagine this: the xbox360 as a a basket and the games as apples ok?
You only carry $15 ok?
The basket(xbox360) cost is $10 and you only have $5 for 1 apple(game) = Atach rate 1
This is good for the hadware manufacturer because he knows that he sold a console but:
if he sold 5 games per user that's bad because that user already owns a 360.
Why?
Is less probable that a user who buy a 360 also buy 5.1 games at the same time. Then MS realize that they are not selling new consoles only risig the number of games per owner.
The Xbox360 is selling games at a good rate but this article is about hardware not software.
That's why the PS3 attach rate is 1.5 game per console this is good by now but this number will rise in the next weeks.
A high attach rate is only good when the console is old like the PS2 or the original Xbox.
Good for game developers, bad for hardware makers.

THIS ARTICLE IS ABOUT HARDWARE NOT SOFTWARE

[Munky]

What kind of backwards thinking is that?? The more games console owners buy, more ppl will be introduced to games, which will result in more ppl buying games. Which ultimatley will lead to more console sales. It's about generating interest in a product in anyway possible, through advertising, through word of mouth, and best of all physically trying a product. A company creates a product to sell it, plain and simple.

[mephixto]

But with the actual attach rate of the Xbox360, all the points you post like advertising, through word of mouth and physically trying aren't giving results, because only the people who already owned a xbox360 is buying more games and few people are buying a console and a a game. That's the main subject of that article, the xbox360 is losing the momentum for sellig consoles. The 5.1 attach rate of the 360 only indicates that the games for the 360 are sellig good but MS is failing in generate interes in new costumers for buying a new console.

As simple as this:

New 360 with 1 or 2 games = Most probable
New 360 with 5 or 6 games = Less Probable, this show that somebody is buying more games for his xbox360.

Finally that is not a backwards thinking, is a critical point for console makers beacause the attach rate shows them how good is the strategy they are applying for his product.

[Munky]

The article doesn't make sense, the reasoning is flawed. A company creates a product to sell it, plain and simple. Do you think MS or any other succesful company has ever said "we are selling to much, this is bad"? I don't think so, sales equals revenue, which is the the goal of every company. PERIOD.

[mephixto]

Man the article is about SELLING THE CONSOLE NOT GAMES!!! The xbox360 is selling a tons of games, that`s a fact but MS isn't selling consoles as good as they want.
The 5.1 attach rate indicate that people who ALREADY HAVE a 360 ARE BUYING MORE GAMES(that's good if you are a game developer) but for a console manufacturer isn't that good.
Look at this:
if the total of game copys sold of all the 360 library is 20 Millon then 20 millon/Attach rate(5.1) = 3.91 Consoles Sold tha's not good for microsoft. but whith an attach rate lower like 1.5 for example: 20 millon/Attach Rate(1.5) = 13.3 Game consoles sold. That would be a perfect number for MS. PERIOD.

Answer this Question

Which attach rate is better for MS?

-2 Hardcore owners of 1 Xbox360 console each one and with 5 games each one(Attach rate of 5) = 2 Consoles sold OR
-5 Casual owners of 1 Xbox360 console each one and 2 games each one (Attach rate of 2) = 5 consoles sold

[Munky]

Dood, we can go back and forth like this til the cows come home. Let's just agree to disagree.

P.S. I am right ;)

[FordGTGuy]

The Xbox 360 is the fastest selling console in the market and is only showing signs of speeding up and none of slowing down while facing the holiday season.

This article would only make sense if the 360 sales were getting slower and slower but they aren't. The console itself has a high sales rate and a high game attachment rate and the only conclusion is that its a successful console.

[Ugly American]

Until the holiday season is complete, the data is relatively inaccurate. The sales of the 360 DID slow down. That is a fact. When is the end point for their time period? The summer is always a slow point for new software, so it is also harder to sell consoles.

I am in the Navy, and our Exchange has had an ENORMOUS stack of 360's throughout the summer through October. I walked through yesterday, and they had 5 left. People are beginning to suck up the 360's with Gears of War coming out(that will lower the attach rate because people are buying one for this game alone), the holidays, and the lack of availability of the PS3.

You can expect that the sales of 360's will be exponential through the New Year. THEN rewrite this article and see where MS is REALLY at.

I bought a PS3 and one game the day of launch. I went and bought two more games in pure desperation that it was worth the hype. Ugh.

[MicroGamer]

What they are saying is if there are 10 million 360 owners out there with an attach rate of 10, that means that 100 million games were sold. If there is an installed base of 50 million, with an attach rate of only 3, that is 150 million games sold. So with a lower attach rate, but a larger installed base, publishers can potentially make more money, so number of hardware units sold is more important than attach rate, unless both happen to be very high, which would be a dream for them.

And for those drawing comparisons, my personal PS2 attach rate was over 50 before the laser unit broke not including PS1 games, and my XBox attach rate was only about 12 and I still bought a 360 instead of a PS3.