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4A Explains How They Achieved 1080p/60fps With PS4, Xbox One's eSRAM Small Amount Is A Pain

Metro Redux which was recently released on the PlayStation 4 runs at 1080p and 60fps on Sony's console. Given that Sony's first party studios like Naughty Dog have somewhat struggled to achieve consistent 60fps in their games, it's surprising that such a demanding game is running at full HD on the PlayStation 4. So how did 4A Games achieved it?

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FlunkinMonkey1125d ago

Not that MS fans will take any notice of this, it was only the other day a developer of a PINBALL MACHINE GAME said they had no issues. It does make me chuckle.

Really intrigued in this game, never played them before.. How does it stack up to other atmospheric heavy games such as Bioshock etc. ? Is it worth getting both, or maybe just Last Light (digital)?

Thanks!

MRMagoo1231125d ago

This game would be worth the purchase imo, it was worth it when the old version was new and this one is a lot better.

The esram will always be a problem especially later on in development when they use more gpu compute processes and they need that ram because the xbone gpu is weaker, they will find its just not big enough to hold everything they need.

4Sh0w1125d ago (Edited 1125d ago )

Hmmm or if you listen to his actual UN-editorialized quotes you can draw your own conclusion:

Overall hardware=

Oles Shishkovstov: "Well, you kind of answered your own question - PS4 is just a bit more powerful. You forgot to mention the ROP count, it's important too - and let's not forget that both CPU and GPU share bandwidth to DRAM [on both consoles]. I've seen a lot of cases while profiling Xbox One when the GPU could perform fast enough but only when the CPU is basically idle. Unfortunately I've even seen the other way round, when the CPU does perform as expected but only under idle GPU, even if it (the CPU) is supposed to get prioritised memory access. That is why Microsoft's decision to boost the clocks just before the launch was a sensible thing to do with the design set in stone."

"Counting pixel output probably isn't the best way to measure the difference between them though. There are plenty of other (and more important factors) that affect image quality besides resolution. We may push 40 per cent more pixels per frame on PS4, but it's not 40 per cent better as a result... your own eyes can tell you that."

ESRAM:

Oles Shishkovstov: "Actually, the real pain comes not from ESRAM but from the small amount of it. As for ESRAM performance - it is sufficient for the GPU we have in Xbox One. Yes it is true, that the maximum theoretical bandwidth - which is somewhat comparable to PS4 - can be rarely achieved (usually with simultaneous read and write, like FP16-blending) but in practice I've seen only a few cases where it becomes a limiting factor."

SDK since update=

"But Microsoft is not sleeping, really. Each XDK that has been released both before and after the Xbox One launch has brought faster and faster draw-calls to the table. They added tons of features just to work around limitations of the DX11 API model. They even made a DX12/GNM style do-it-yourself API available - although we didn't ship with it on Redux due to time constraints."

marcofdeath1124d ago (Edited 1124d ago )

So let me get it out first, i was right about the 2X performance increase of consoles.......
PS4 is a HD7970 at 3.2TF close box performance 2x.
ESRAM is = to GDDR5's maximum theoretical of 176GB/s. This speaks volumes. We know that ESRAM's effective bandwidth is 140- 150GB/s so you make up your mind.
PS4 is coding to the METAL and XB1 is not,this is big trouble for one of these consoles?

One last thing (the first party in house studio TURN 10) Forza motorsports 5 running on a 5.2TF PC GPU / 2 = 2.6TF. We will see,~

BX811124d ago

@ marcofdeath
Lol. Can you do me a favor and explain the school yard version of your point? You lost me in all of the numbers. Thanks.

marcofdeath1124d ago (Edited 1124d ago )

@BX81
Well let me just say that i called this mouths ago.
I told PEOPLE here that the closed box 2X performance increase of consoles 2XCBP, in this case PS4 was 3.2TF or = to a HD7970. These people don't like that, why? PC people think that it's just 1.8TF do to being a PC lover that hate console,so they need it to be as low as possible, and PS4 people don't like it do 1 main reason, more on that later. Do you remember the 14+4 thing from a while ago, well it's true, Not that the whole GPU can't be used but there is not enough bandwidth to keep all the ALUs busy so they sit idle, Page 54 http://develop.scee.net/fil...
You are looking at 18CUs with 64ALU that = 1152 SPs. The dark blue ones are ALUs working, the uncolored squares are ALUs sitting idle that equal 199 ALU not used at any given time or frame. So that's 199 / 64ALU = 3.109375 CUs sitting idle, That puts us right at 14.89 CUs.
PS4 is 15CUs x 64ALU x 800MHz x 2MADD = 1536000TF
x2 closed box performance = 3072000TF now we add in from page 56 GPGPU and we gain back 104ALU x 800MHz x 2madd = 166400 + 3072000 = 3238400TF or one HD7970.
That is how i know PS4's theoretical close box performance all from Sony's own developer PDF.
I don't hate PS4 that's a real good number, But here is why they hate the 2xCBP, it's Forza motorsports 5 or FH2 engines made by Turn 10 who helped design XB1, these are both x86 systems but in no way do PC's have the efficiency of consoles. In there minds XB1 is 1.3TF well just like above you don't need a 5.2TF GPU to get there. The math will not work.. At this time I can only speculate as to how Xbox one is getting this type of performance but there are other things known now from this developers words like they are not using the very clearly specified from Xbox one architects function of each ESRAM back fill into DDR3 (render target will not have to all fit in ESRAM) or even coding to the metal. Both of these features are huge....
You can work backward from 5.2TF but it is missing one big part, another 1.3TF. FMs5 is not even using all of DX12 as turn 10 has said.

imt5581124d ago Show
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garos821125d ago

i got the ps plus version for free on PS3 and i have to say it was extremely imppressive.Loved the atmosphere and the gameplay was great. The visuals were extremely impressive on ps3

Will be picking up both versions on PS4 later in the year for improved visuals and also to try Metro 2033 out.

Dynasty20211125d ago

There are no games around that match the Metro series for atmosphere.

They're arguably the greatest under-played games in the past decade.

LordMaim1125d ago

I agree, and I'd probably also put the STALKER series in that same category. If only they'd sort out their ownership rights, I'd love to see the same sort of treatment that Metro got on the current-gen consoles/PC.

UltraNova1124d ago

Add Dishonored to that list...

KentBlake1125d ago (Edited 1125d ago )

I played both games, the first one on 360 and Last Light on PS3.

I have to say I really loved Last Light, but almost gave up on 2033, because the gameplay was so punishing and buggy. But I read somewhere that for the Redux version they improved a lot of gameplay aspects. That, along with 1080p/60, are enough reasons to try this series.

It's also very different from the standard CoD/BF/Killzone/Halo breed of shooters, and for me that's another reason to try it.

Graphics, atmosphere, story are all very good. But definitely play 2033 first, for story reasons.

Evilsnuggle1125d ago (Edited 1125d ago )

[email protected]

Wow me to bro . I was super excited about playing metro 2033 on 360. I love all things post apocalyptic or dystopic future. When I got metro 2033 I played it . Metro 2033 was a buggy mess and I stopped playing. So I will get on PS4 i love the story and atmosphere.

There is nothing wrong with Esram . No it the amount of Esram that Microsoft chose to include x1 that is the problem. 32 mb of Esram is to small for 2 1080P frames of animation with anti aliases. It's just enough for 2 frames animation without AA. The x1 will only struggle with resolution because of Microsoft hardware choices . Microsoft chose to build a media center hub first and game console last.

Microsoft x1 lead engineer
“We targeted more as a broad entertainment play and did it in an intelligent way

"We purposefully did not target the highest-end graphics,”

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/r...

ramiuk11124d ago

they used last lights engine on 2033 with redux,redid the whole thing

FunkMacNasty1125d ago

If you've never played the metro games before, and you like dark, atmospheric, distopian shooters, you gotta play this one.

It's a good mash-up of Gameplay, plot elements, and atmosphere of Fallout and Silent Hill, with an emphasis on stealth and survival for good measure

700p1125d ago

How come you couldnt comment without bashing the xbox? :)

SilentNegotiator1125d ago

The article is about 4A struggling with Xbone's small eSRAM, too, you know. Not sure if you fell asleep halfway through reading the title, or what, but his comment was completely on topic. Fanboys were pretending like no developer has ever had trouble with the eSRAM because a develop didn't have trouble making a PINBALL game on Xbone.

SilentNegotiator1125d ago (Edited 1125d ago )

I'm sick of reading how "impressive" remasters and cross gen games are and how developers had no problem reaching 1080p with them. The games were designed for WEAKER hardware; you'd better not have a really hard time making them run well on 8th gen systems. Excluding cross gen and remasters, Xbone's 1080p games only make up about a third (of just noncross/non-remaster games)...which is why I'm not surprised that "certain" users make a big deal about D3/Destiny getting the hike to 1080p.

InTheLab1125d ago

This game was actually designed for PC. Metro on PC is one of the most demanding games and I couldn't run it at 60fps when it launched. I don't think this is a case of porting the console versions, which were crap by comparison.

HaydenJameSmith1125d ago (Edited 1125d ago )

Remastered Games are actually harder to make for these consoles than new next gen games... when they make console games there designed and optimized with the hardware in mind. So its really hard to remaster a game without designing it from the ground up which would take as long as making a brand new game...

So it is pretty impressive feat in itself from 4A that they made this Remastered Redux Pack in 4-6 months with these Dev Kits.

Off-Topic

I noticed this comment in the interview...

"Counting pixel output probably isn't the best way to measure the difference between them though. There are plenty of other (and more important factors) that affect image quality besides resolution. We may push 40 per cent more pixels per frame on PS4, but it's not 40 per cent better as a result... your own eyes can tell you that."

This a million times... I am glad to see there is some developers that don't realize there are more important things to push for than just resolution... they even used the Kinect reservation to stabilize frame rate.

SilentNegotiator1125d ago

Optimization aside, unless they're completely redoing the models, you still have a bunch of low poly models and stuff. I'm not saying I'm not impressed with the developer's work, just that making a big deal of remasters and crossgen games managing 1080p/1080p60fps is kind of silly.

ramiuk11124d ago

actually was pc and it crippled many.
i stopped plaing on my p[c because i had to turn so many things off or down it was fugly

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FlunkinMonkey1125d ago (Edited 1125d ago )

Thanks a lot guys, me and my gf have been looking for another post apocalyptic adventure of some sort, looking forward to this.

@700p

Listen. I don't think I really have to sit here and get a small non-constructive lecture about bashing a system from a 2nd account troll, do i?

What I said was entirely reasonable, it's a shame you had nothing interesting to add to the mix.

Sorry you're so salty friend, O and please try and get past the 5th word in a headline before accusing me of speaking on matters that are unrelated.

Thanks.

Blaze9291125d ago

almost a year in this generation and we still talking about 1080p 60fps yet we have nooooo games to play

Spotie1125d ago

We have plenty of games to play(though maybe you're not interested, or have a console with less games than others), and the same performance debates went on ALL last gen.

Why so up in arms now?

Tsar4ever011125d ago

Wow, just what the XB1 needs right now, another Dev explaining how great porting their game to PS4 and Not so great porting to XB1, I wonder if devs even realize how much of this negative publicity is hurting the credibility of the xb1 as a choice for console. If this keeps up it may very well end up like the ps2 vs Xbox original.

On another point about these remaster fad, When's Bethesda gonna announce Skyrim: Legendary Edition and BioWare announce Mass Effect Trilogy for Ps4/Xb1?!

mkis0071124d ago

IO would die for a skyrim remaster and red dead remaster to go with gta 5

Azzanation1124d ago (Edited 1124d ago )

What you need to understand is fanboys and mainly kids believe that ESram is a bottleneck when in fact ESram can achieve alot and is a great benefit. Crytek who made one of the best looking next gen games in Ryse which won multiple visual awards, came out and said they had no issues.
Depends on the developers.

If X1 didnt have ESram then it would be weaker. With it they can match PS4 games if used correctly. The more ESram the bettu.

Godz Kastro1124d ago (Edited 1124d ago )

Show me a game that Ryse would be embarrassed in front of...

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zsquaresoff1125d ago

I played the 2nd game, it's practically impossible to get the good ending.

If you do get the good ending, you've practically attained sainthood from not killing anybody.

XtraTrstrL1125d ago

It's kinda corny for them to bring up Naughty Dog struggling to achieve 1080p x 60fps when it's only because TLOU was coded to the metal for PS3 and they were upgrading it. It's not really an accurate or fair comparison. It's good to see they hit that new next-gen standard though.

johndoe112111125d ago

It wasn't corny. The author knew very well that his statement reeks of hypocrisy and that he's full of sh! t.

dumahim1125d ago

I especially liked how they said Naughty Dog "games" not just "game" because so far it's only been The Last of Us.

Didn't ND say they're targeting 1080p/60fps for Uncharted 4?

Qrphe1124d ago

It's actually quite a feat they were able to max out a game running on a very complex CPU-bound system.

Hanuman1125d ago

They lost me at; 'per-vertex tangent space'. WTF?

MRMagoo1231125d ago

Come on..... don't tell me you don't know about the space in tangent vertexs , if it wasn't for vertexs and there tangent space we wouldn't have discombobulators or right and left falangies and I am sure I don't have to tell you what that would mean....../joke

mrmack001125d ago

Yeah, seriously..How could you not know about the Quantum synapes and Flux Capacitors??

If you want to game, you need to know this stuff..really.

Bathyj1125d ago

I didn't even know ps4 had a falangy

aerisbueller1125d ago

There's a local space that can be described as the world relative to each vertex. They said GCN doesn't like interpolation, so it seems they were interpolating (using simple math to calculate the local tangent space for the pixels between vertexes) these matrices, and for whatever reason it's more efficient to calculate the space directly for each pixel rather than only calculating vertexes, and extrapolating the space between.

A tangent describes a line or in this case a plane that only intersects with a given point at exactly one spot, and where the angle of the line or plane is parallel to the angle represented at that point of the curve or curved surface. Tangents are really mathematically useful for calculating accurate lighting and physics collisions.

NovusTerminus1125d ago (Edited 1125d ago )

A vertex a shape, generally a square or triangle combined with more to make a map.

Think of it like a spider web.

So "per vertex" would be per square or triangle.

Tanget Space, if I recall correctly, is a way to add shading to flat texture, suche as debris on the ground, ect

aerisbueller1125d ago

a vertex is a point where more than one edge meets, a triangle has 3 vertexes, a quad has 4 vertexes.

what you're saying is "per vertex" is "per poly"

and tangent space is the local frame or reference to world space for a given tangent

Toiletsteak1125d ago

It really doesn't bother me as long as games are fun to play.

FriedGoat1125d ago

I hear the NES has some good games.