In an open letter, Editor-in-Chief Kahlief Adams of TheSpawnPointBlog airs some of his grievances with the popular gaming news aggregator site @N4G.
Think it will fall on deaf ears but I definitely agree as far as the sourcing of information goes. As long as the piece is actually an opinion piece. Submitting a "news" article with loose citations to the source doesn't count (not that I'm implying your site does this - but many on here do and it's a personal grievance of mine). I'd also contribute that the Sony-warriors on here could stand to take a step back. I'm getting kind of tired of seeing the same "Xbox sucks" article posted any time anything remotely interesting happens. One article per piece of news, one discussion. Opinion pieces after the fact are fine as long as they contribute something new.
Thanks for the reply. We do our best to make sure that we do report news in a proper way and give credit in our articles to the sources. The internet has made that more interesting because it's not like one outlet gets information (unless it's exclusive) from a particular source. It's like telling folks that get a press release that if they report on that same release after a bigger site does that it isn't news. Sure on here it would be a duplicate but like I state in the article there are measures for that. Thanks again for reading!
Hey boss, just want to thank you again for this and backing me up before. It's been a crazy ride. Your article is well-written and points to facts. Thanks a ton!
If you guys have a problem.I suggest you pm the mods. Also regarding this. *I'd also contribute that the Sony-warriors on here could stand to take a step back. I'm getting kind of tired of seeing the same "Xbox sucks" article posted any time anything remotely interesting happens. One article per piece of news, one discussion. Since you guys are fairly new.I'll let you on in a little secret.Early PS3/360 ear this was a xbox fansite.Sony fans were attacked on daily basis and then early 2009 things started changing around.So this wont change.
Thank you for your thoughtful response, I've totally PM'ed mods and gotten mixed results. I would say that most of them haven't really helped make situations better. Mind you I'm not the agitator type, I'm super polite and will admit our own wrongdoing even sometimes to the detriment of our team. I will also say that these kinds of incidents aren't new this has been happening for a while. We've been posting here for as long as our site has been live 2+ years.
Not sure if you're just resigned to the fact or think that because the scales were balanced the other way before, it's somehow justified? I enjoy reading news on all things gaming. I could just do without the constant spin. There is no need for it other than to feed the sites looking to bolster their view counts.
The issue is why even go there , "sony warriors" ? There is a problem on every sides with people submitting for an agenda . It was all fine till you tried to single out a side .
That's a great stance tit for tat. Anyways this has become PRO Sony site but like you stated the shoe was on the other foot at one point and Xbox fans didn't stay humble. That's the nature of the beast I suppose
It's always <6 month old and one/two bubbler accounts complaining about Sony fanboys.
Honestly, I'm tired of seeing the comments about how Sony fans always attack Xbox, are hypocrites because "Sony did it", etc, etc etc. The fanboyism goes both ways. It's not limited to one side. There are more Sony fans on here, so obviously you will see more Sony fan boys. What happened at the beginning of last gen wasn't right either, and what's going on now isn't really revenge for that, it's just a swing in the pendulum to the other side. Fan boy crap has always ebbed and flowed. The only thing I can say is people crack down more on the trolls, and get the mods to do what they should be doing. There are too many on both sides that ruin discussions regardless of what they are. The decent fans of both systems go mostly unnoticed, but they actually outnumber the fan boys by a wide margin.
@ Askanison4 My only gripe is all the people who call out n4g as being Sony fanboys are all people like yourself that haven't even been members to this site for even a full year. People like myself remember the time when the Xbox 360 was dominating the market and like wise every article here was PS3 is doom and gloom. Its pure hypocrisy. I've been here long enough to witness both sides.
Most people like myself stated the same thing then. Stop with the ps3 articles.
But some people, like me could've been reading this site for a while before making an account.
I've been reading a lot longer than I've been a member. You completely missed my point. It's not about one or the other. It's the articles with the spin and arguments in the comments that I'm referring to. At the minute, it's 90% Playstation articles bashing on Xbox.
@Software_Lover...Not to be disrespectful, but I believe your statement "Most people..." is highly incorrect. I don't subscribe to the tit for tat mentality myself. Which is why I stay away from flamebait articles for the most part. N4G has always been, at least in my years, a take it or leave proposition. You take what you want and leave the rest. It's a great place to gather many bits of news. But, because it is controlled by submission, it gets dominated by what is popular.
I think Vegeta's point was get the hell over it. Not only is it just things being reversed from last gen, but there are still plenty who- overly or covertly- take every opportunity to slam anything having to do with Sony. If you can get those people to back off, you MIGHT see the Sony side do the same. But don't hold your breath.
there are more social PlayStation owners than Xbox. So of course they will appear to seem louder.
I'm just pointing out that's it's not just Sony-Warriors. I found this site when i was looking for gaming news besides IGN. Since then I love to come here and comment on interesting articles and sometimes submit news. I do feel that there are 2 sides on this website and they are pretty easy to distinct from each other. I like having nice conversations with the people who have interesting things to say.
"That's Going Bury The Xbox One" I seen a article with that on it. Made laugh soo hard. The fanboyism is real on here. I cant say anything positive about xbox on here or i get perma disagreed or blocked. ;( lol
Also the skewing of quote and missing using them out of context to incite a flame war. Any interview posted on this site 90% has the quotes taken out of context just to bloat the title.
Happy to see this approved!
Why? It's basically some butthurt article that claims they wanted to do something, the mods said no and gave them a suspension, so to get back at them they wrote a long winded article to receive both what they wanted and alert people of their plight. With that being said, I want to clarify that I wouldn't be so harsh to the writer if they actually added some details, such as which article it was reported, why exactly it was reported, which mod they contacted and finally why exactly they suspended them. This is important because "response articles" where one site calls out another generally don't get approved and couldn't ALL of this (literally all of it) had been avoided if the author simply linked to the Kotaku article in their own article? I mean, what difference does it make if N4G has both links if you simply link to your article and then have that one link to their article? In the end, you would ideally read both articles, it would streamline the process (that way I didn't have to click both on N4G) and ultimately it is a far simpler solution than asking N4G to not only change their rules, but implement things.
Thanks for commenting admiralvic. If you'd like to read one of the articles in question I'll link it here: http://thespawnpointblog.co... In the article you'll see that Kotaku WAS properly sourced. This isn't our first rodeo. Our site has existed for over 2 years and we go to great lengths to make sure that we are responsible journalists. I would recommend, going forward, that you do the necessary research prior to commenting, authoritatively on said subject.
@ StubbyStan "I would recommend, going forward, that you do the necessary research prior to commenting, authoritatively on said subject." So, basically the article tells me "Recently, we posted a commentary article about a Kotaku piece, sourcing our site as the main source (for the commentary), and Kotaku as a secondary source," which is about as vague as can be and when I say the article should tell me this information upfront, I am told to do "necessary research?" Why can't the author just post a hyperlink to the aforementioned article so I can look at it and not have to guess which article it is or go off vague clues (I don't consider 14 days / 2 weeks recent and on a more active site, there could be well over 100 articles posted within that timeframe). "In the article you'll see that Kotaku WAS properly sourced. This isn't our first rodeo. " Anyway, I can't find your original N4G article to see what the report was, but looking at the article I am willing to bet it was "wrong source" and you were told to put Kotaku as the source. If that was indeed the case, then that is an accurate report and you're in the wrong. Not to sound like a fanboy supporter of the site, since frankly I think there are many areas they can improve upon (like making some of the rules more apparent), but the way N4G works is that the submitted article should always be the source (unless the source is someone like a random forum post posting a claim with no proof), which due to mentioning "according to Kotaku," TheSpawnPointBlog was not. For this reason the article should have been submitted as Kotaku as the URL and TheSpawnPointBlog as the credit (credit refers to the site that submitted the news / deserves credit, not the site you're taking information from). N4G also does not allow duplicate articles (to avoid clutter), so if the Kotaku version was already up, then your article would have been taken down for being a duplicate. However, you could have submitted it as a secondary source. If this is indeed what happened, then I really don't see the issue. Sure the suspension might have been overly harsh (I also got suspended once for submitting the wrong source), but beyond that everything makes sense. Assuming I am right about the report and such anyway.
Here's the N4G link since StubbyStan supplied theirs. http://n4g.com/news/1562022...
@ cl1983 Thanks! I was looking for it using the original articles title and wrongfully assumed it didn't become the Kotaku version and figured it was either deleted or lost in the failed area. With that being said, I guess that confirmed it was a source claim and it was for the reasons I gave. I also see why StubbyStan didn't feature it, since not only were they in the wrong (as per the rules that Emilo, and CL outright told them "When posting a story, always link to the original source of the story. Many websites recycle news from other websites, so try and track down the source of the story and use that site’s story as the basis for your post. Word to webmasters and staff members: You should always submit using the original source URL where you found the news. You can input your article in the "Credit URL" box"), they were also told by multiple sources that it was wrong and still disagreed with it with their own logic and were suspended thusly.
"When we questioned the moderator about this inconsistency, my writer and I were banned for three days" wow really?
Yeah it was pretty strange. It's ok in some ways. Gave us time to cool our jets haha!
I got a restriction for saying that Gameinformer's EIC was a professional.
The reason the mod gave was basically "don't question why a article was flagged" I thought "what constructive criticism"
Absolutely believe that. I got banned for three days by LtSkittles when I pointed out that he censored the story on Killzone Shadow Fall not being true 1080p. Someone asked why the story disappeared for hours and I answered why. Banned for posting off topic. It's off topic to answer why the topic was censored for hours.
Yeah, moderators do abuse their power alot. There's so much wrong with this site, I dont know why instead of banning and flagging, they instead aim to fix the site and make it better for users.
The biggest excuse N4G uses to justify their hatred is that n4g was xbox paradise around 2006-7?? I beleive? I wasnt here at that time but ive come to realize this is all a lie,if you go on the full site and go on the articles calendar, you can go back to check those articles and see how many more Sony fans there have always been on this site and they have always been trolling. Edit:Hellsvacacy- your comment was the first ine there agreeing w the xbox side, but that seems like something everyone would agree with, if the ps3 version was really that bad then why buy that version? That would still happen today, just common sense
http://n4g.com/news/585419/... That's one article of MANY from the time
You know what's depressing about that? That even though the article is extremely old the comment section seems the same as the one that we have today. What I mean by this is that the battles between fanboys and the trolling hasn't changed a lot since then. Sure before it was about bashing the PS3 and now its about bashing the Xbox One but in the end its still a bunch of immature posters fighting each other over anything.
Oh I totally agree, it'll be no different next gen, i've changed the way I leave my comments, I trolled abit in the early years admittedly, I took the attitude if I couldn't beat the I must join them These days i've risen above it, I try to be nothing but honest
"...but that seems like something everyone would agree with, if the ps3 version was really that bad then why buy that version? That would still happen today, just common sense" Exactly. And it does. Just replace 'PS3' with 'X1', and 'no grass' with 'lower resolution'.
Ripsta, I never ever say anything about that, because it's true what you say. There has always been a large contingent of Sony fans on this site. In fact the main topic of discussion in those days was that Microsoft would not do well with the Xbox 360 because they abandoned the Xbox. That the PS3 would continue the reign of Sony with the PS2. That was the narrative that was in many posts, and posters. Anyone who had a different opinion went through the same process that goes on today. Railroading of their voices. All you have to do is pay attention to who have the most bubbles, the content of the conversations, and those on the other side. Again as you said Ripsta anyone can go into the calendar and take a look at what was being done and said from 2004-2010. I'm talking about even before the release of the Xbox 360. I never speak on these fanboy topics anymore like I used to. Up until today I had to share my voice to this conversation. It's much more constructive to create your own platform, and participate that way. Because here, lots of people have convenient amnesia when it comes to what has gone on this site for years. For me, its also about balance. I used to get told not to come across bias towards platforms. We have all engaged in some fanboy drivel at times, at the same time there has been a clear agenda at work on N4G. I just want to make sure that as a site owner I get the same fair treatment that the agenda sites get. The fanboy stuff is whatever. Like what you like, feel how you feel.
I first came to this site a few months after the PS3 came out. Mostly looking for a broader view of gaming news. At the time I lurked around a lot, just reading the news, and maybe some comments from time to time. After a couple of days, my impression of the site was pretty low because it seemed that Sony was being attacked more than there was actual news on the site. I read some comments and noticed that a lot of Sony fans were pissed that Sony kept getting attacked...sometimes quite maliciously. I stopped coming here after that, because I honestly thought this site was a joke and possibly a front for MS to push it's own console. I came back about a year later, and it was even worse. It died down after a few years, but it was pretty prevalent up until Sony announced that they had surpassed MS in sales. The entire tide changed when MS announced their DRM policies. Guess the sleeping giant of the quiet Sony fans was woken up. I can't say that what MS fans are having to put up with now is better or worse than what Sony fans had to put up with, but I can say that MS is deserving of a lot of the criticism they've received, but will admit not deserving of all of it. Anyhow, there was plenty of MS hating back then too. Fan boys of all colors are pretty much the same.
Can I have my bubbles back :( the disagree phantoms took them away from me
An Open Letter To N4G can we change this god awful comment system?
I remember when a few years ago we had a "fanboy" comment section. Too bad that flopped :P
Open Zone was the best thing that ever happened on N4G. reading comments on Open Zone would make anyone's day. i miss those days.
This is actually a well put together article, and I do agree with most of the points. I think there was a time when a lot of little and middle-name sites kind of ruled N4G between 2008 and maybe 2010, where opinion pieces and news came from all over the place. At this junction we're seeing smaller game sites kind of fade away in prominence while established sites continue to rule the day. This is not to say that smaller sites don't have a chance, because they do, it's just that you have to know your way around N4G's minefield to avoid getting burned.
Remember those terrible "surfer girl" articles that'd come in because he/she was allegedly an industry insider. Good times
I'm only here because Gamepro died. Most of the people on my friends list for ps3/360 came from gamepro. I do fantasy football league with guys from gamepro. That was a great forum. I helped a few people build PC's. Made some music for a few guys. Those were good times.
This is very well written, and I think your requests are fair, but I doubt it will change anything. Just yesterday an article was approved that used internet expeculation as source for the article. I sh#t you not, that actually happened.
Thank you so much, if you have a gripe I think you have to be honest and fair when bringing it to the greater community if you are asking them to take your side in matter. It seems like this article is resonating with people here which let's me know I'm not crazy. Thank you so much for reading and commenting!
Completely agree with you! Lets get this post to the top!
Bubble system is the real drawback of any "pro" sony movement people see. I'm sure there are multiple people who have lost 1/2 bubbles for being pro MS sometimes, but not often. But that's the way of the world... N4G is what the community makes it, I enjoy the atmosphere. It's 10+ mil for PS4 and <5 mil for X1 at the moment. I'd say the environment of the console gen affects the "pro" sony stuff here more than N4G itself.
The 1-2 bubble Xbox fans (or anyone with 1-2 bubbles for that matter) are trolls 95% of the time. There are plenty of Xbox fans on N4G that do just fine in bubbles, plenty of them with just as many bubble as myself. Also lots of 1-2 bubble PS fans that are also trolls.
I understand your point of view but I have had bubbles added and then removed for no reason and based off my comments I can find the 2/3 that lost me the bubbles and all were "nice job for MS". There is undoubtedly a tie between favoritism of MS and the amount of bubbles someone has. I am glad you've been here long enough to have an embarrassing amount of bubbles but to say that there isn't a strong anti-MS movement here is ignorant at best.
I would agree with you that "the environment of the console gen affects" what N4G reflects. I've been here since the about the second or third year of last gen. I was down to 3 bubbles for innocent opinions expressed against the grain of popularity. There was a conscious effort to take bubbles away if there was a hint that you were of a different opinion than the status quo. All the while, obvious trolls gained bubbles in every article. Pretty much how it is today. Not saying it was and IS right. I'm just saying that it's the nature of N4G at this point.
There are plenty of reasonable Xbox fans with plenty of bubbles. They don't go around trolling Sony fans, and they often have great comments. Two of my favorite top 5 posters on here are Xbox fans. One is a Sony fan, and the other two seem to be console agnostic.
Anyone remember the old G4 forums? Those were good times. I love to talk gaming, and I'm that guy that has to have all the shiny new hardware. My tag is SmoothNinja on every console for anyone who actually games but N4G definitely isn't about that life as a whole. It's more 1080p/60fps or lulz this site rarely talks about actual games and more about why your console of choice sux even though half of you haven't even bought a current gen console! *shakes head*
This site has TONS of gaming news, but it's always buried under the click-bait. Heck, there are plenty of sites that only focus on games, new games, old games, interesting games, game mods, etc., but that news barely gets above 40 degrees. Either a lot of people just aren't as interested in that kind of news or that kind of news just isn't reaching its appropriate audience.
The trolls on N4G have gotten almost as bad as what I see on GameFAQS. Mods need to fix that.
N4G has almost nothing to do with news. It's about clicks and quantity over quality.
Not true. Look at any of the stories reported by me. If someone has a problem, or needs clarification, I am willing to answer their questions, and I know all of the other moderators are too. We are here to make sure that submissions follow our guidelines, and the rest is up to the community(mostly). If I don't have an answer for someone, I make sure that someone is aware that it is being asked. Feel free to pm me, if you have any questions, or open a ticket.
To be honest this is a fantastic article, and there are many website owners whom I've spoken with on this subject. There are some really great mods on N4G, but at the same time if you are not part of th`e "agenda" you do not get supported, posts get railroaded, and rules that are very vague, and arbitrary are put in motion. I don't have an issue with N4G, but if many sites are saying the same thing, then at some point there needs to be some self reflection. Yes, some sites do engage in inflamatory content. But, if you are going to police them, you have to police it across the board. That's the biggest issue every site owner I've spoken with about N4G and it's policy's feels is inadequate. I've had posts that were approved going by the guidelines of posting, and suddenly due to the "mob" mentality an approved post gets taken down. Then on the flip side when there are posts that are clearly breaking the same arbitrary rules. A mod will say the community ruled on it, so they can't take the post down. I've had people PM me and ask why a post was taken down, and I could not give an explanation. They would in turn bluntly confirm what we all know is happening on this site. What that is a biasness against content that again does not fit the agenda of N4G. I actually hate writing this comment because I have always tried to work with N4G and those that are in charge of making sure the site functions. It just touched a nerve that many other sites are going through the same thing. Sure N4G is not the main contributor to my site traffic, but it's a good place to get feedback, and interaction from the community. N4G should be policing that the communication is heard from many different points of view rather than what we get today on the front page.
Thank you so much for reading our story and for your comment. I totally agree with your statement. That arbitrary nature which seems to change with the wind is really frustrating especially when you are bringing on new writers and don't want them to be discouraged when they aren't doing anything wrong.
So, is that fabled site update coming to N4G anytime soon mods? That's been in the works since I started doing games reporting stuff 5 years ago now lol. Agree with some of the issues aside from the main reason why the article was written. Sourcing wise, the OP was in the wrong and Kotaku was the source. Also, as far as the bubble system goes, I'm fine with the way it is. There's comment threads that get so out of hand sometimes on my site there's nothing you can do to even manage it, and with the community here, no offense to those that do have good discussion worthy comments, there's be an overload of junk to sort through to get to the actual comments. I VERY heavily moderate OnlySP's comment threads and it's still a job in its own. I've had one run in with a mod here who tried to ban me for 3 days because I disagreed with him that the Gameinformer EIC wasn't a professional when he most certainly is. Talked to CAT and got it sorted right away thankfully. N4G's a good place for sharing content, sure. But the community here really needs to pull it together. It'd be so much more enjoyable to show up here and actually talk about games rather than argue about stupid things like resolution numbers, whether Xbox or PS4 is better and so on. Mods should just hide those comments on arrival when they can, would help out a lot.
What the hell do the bubble quotes mean?
Doubt this will be seen, but if you guys want to make your moderation issues public then I guess it's okay to chime in for the other side. Kotaku story: n4g.com/news/1562022 The source of the news was Kotaku, so it needs to link there. Pretty strait forward 'wrong source' report. 'Plenty of N4G articles are allowed to publish in this format' - Uh, no. Going through to the front page and being 'allowed' are 2 different things. Something being on the front page doesn't mean it was 'allowed'. If someone else is improperly sourcing then please report it. That doesn't somehow justify someone else improperly sourcing. If we don't see it then we can't do anything about it. The numbered bullet points: 1 - those 2 statements are contradictory, maybe you aren't explaining enough? If a story is truly an opinion then it can and should be the main link. It's news and rumors that have to be sourced to the original source of the info. An opinion is an objective piece so it's source is whomever wrote it. When we do sourcing reports we are talking about N4G, not the site they are on. Not sourcing on the article is called plagiarism, and that will get a site banned. 2 - Yes. I would quit my job if I could get paid to N4G. I don't really think that's the way N4G wants to go though. The whole idea of N4G is based on the community deciding and that's what the higher ups want. Hiring mods to control things doesn't really jive with that. For the most part they want mods to just handle grievances and let the community play out the rest. 3 - They're called tickets and you are free to open one at any time for any question. Feel free to upload screens to it via image sharing sites. If you want another mod or to escalate something to an admin all you have to do is ask.
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