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Sony’s PlayStation 5 plans could include blazing-fast 3D stacked RAM

Warning: the following article contains intense speculations which may or may not anger the fanboy/girl within you.

Could the PS5 have RRAM? One site takes an educated guess, and the results seem fairly spot-on

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reddevilandy101107d ago

Interesting to think about the advancements in console hardware in five years time, especially since doomsayers suggest that the console is already dead.

Magicite1107d ago

I really doubt that next-gen consoles will be able to run games at 4k, but certainly graphics will be ultra-realistic.

amiga-man1107d ago

Well as far as hardware tech and innovation I would trust Sony to bring together the best of whats available, they have some of the best hardware engineers in the business it's what they do.

ColeMacGrath1107d ago

Last-gen people also doubted that PS4/X1 consoles will be able to run at 1080p.

4K will be as commonly-used as 1080p currently is in the next decade or so.

annus1107d ago

@ColeMacGrath

Ah... what? PS3 had games at 1080p, why would anyone suggest the successor would not be capable of it?

gfk3421107d ago

From my perspective 4k should be the main objective for both Sony and MS, taking into account that currently all TV manufacturers offer 4k TVs and in 5 years period they will be affordable for the majority of consumers (due to price diminishing).

extermin8or1107d ago

I'd rather an emphasis on better gameplay experience and systems. Better Ai etc than 4k but whatever.

ABizzel11107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

This is a complete no duh, simply because that's the direction that PC GPUs are headed, except stacked DRAM so of course this is all quite possible.

With Maxwell (2014 - 2016) NVIDIA has 3 goals, 20nm die shrink, reduce power consumption 20% and increase performance 20%, and create CPU to GPU link (Denver).

With Pascal (likely 2016 - 2018) they have another 3 goals. Create unified memory architecture with DRAM / 3D Memory, NVLink (basically improving the PCI to match the performance of high powered GPUs), and GPU to GPU link (SLI finally gives you that near 200% performance boost when using 2 GPUs).

The top end Pascal GPU should be more capable of being repurposed into the PlayStation 5 if it launches at my expected date of 2020. The real Maxwell is suppose to double the performance of Kepler, and Pascal is to double the performance of the Kepler refresh (basically the UHD 180 should be at least a 10 GFLOP GPU, 8GB Unified DRAM, 500 GB/s Memory bandwidth, and Denver CPU (like quad core by then)).

So yes the PS5 should be a beastly little $500 rig

@dmitrijs88

I expect the next-gen consoles to have multiple resolutions. 4k gaming @ 60fps just isn't going to be a common thing, simply because how demanding it is even today on games that are current-gen (Crysis 3, Metro, etc...). To run every game today in 4k @ 60fps you need 3 or 4 GTX 780Ti which is 15 TFLOPS - 22 TFLOPS of performance (and $1,600 - $2,400 of GPU alone). By comparison the PS4 is only 1.84 TFLOPS. and looking at the potential for Pascal it's going to be around 10 - 12 TFLOPS.

The good news is that 3 - 4 780 Ti aren't using 100% of their performance between them, so realistically 4k gaming takes less than 22 TFLOPS of performance to achieve since there is always loss in performance when running GPUs in SLI / Crossfire. The bad new it's still going to take a good amount of power.

Looking at SLI 780's (which the top tend Pascal should be equal too), and you can do 4k gaming at more than playable framerates for most current games in 4k @ 30fps (Crysis 3 max).

So ultimately the PS5 / XB? would likely be using multiple resolutions when making their games from 2k - 4k (1080p has to go, simply because a 1080p game standing next to a 4k gaming is a night and day difference). So we'll have games with resolutions like 2k, 3k, 4k, 2.5k, 3.5k, and everywhere in-between.

Resolution is important, but framerate is more important which is why IMO the vast majority of PS5/XB? games should be 60fps given the huge range of resolutions possible.

ramiuk11107d ago

the thing is,4k is a huge jump in terms of the power needed imo for it to run smooth and look amazing.not to mention the size of the games.

VealParmHero1107d ago

I wouldn't speak too soon. 4K is only now beginning to be a reality for the general public. While very expensive just for "entry level" 4k Tv/monitors and even more pricey for 4K graphics, don't think for 1 second that 5-6 years time you won't be able to have 4K tech for a pretty reasonable price. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the next-gen of consoles could pull it off, even if it was not yet the standard.

Mithan1107d ago

I don't expect a lot when it comes to 4k. 1080p/1200p has been a common Desktop resolution for a long, long time now and the consoles can barely keep up with it.

4k is a huge leap, one you need a lot of money now to run competently at high resolutions, and games that push the bar basically instantly make your current "4k" system obsolete, like in the old days when id Software used to release a new game and you needed a new video card to play it maxed out at decent frame rates.

I am not saying it isn't possible, I just think the norm will be something else upscaled to 4k. Maybe 1440 or 1600p upscaled to 2160p

As for the guy above me saying something about nVidia, so what? You do realize that the Console Makers do not match the latest graphics technology. This could change, but the current GPU in the PS4 is about equal to a GTX580, which is still pretty good, but far behind something like the 780 or upcoming 880.

I think the best we can hope for in 3-5 years when a new console is released, is something about as good as the 880 when it comes out this fall.

As well, I still think we may see the console guys change their models at some point, and go with a Smartphone/IOS type model where we can buy newer consoles, and keep almost full backwards compatibility with old software. Sort of how you can buy a game on an ipad 2 and it will work on the new ipad Air, but an ipad Air game may not work on an ipad 2.

If that happens, we could see new hardware every few years that gives us incremental steps. I would love that.

BadlyPackedKeebab1107d ago

Maybe its just me but given you need a TV too big for most homes to really get the benefit of 4K I would prefer a really stunning 1080p image over "wasting" next-next-gen power on hitting 4k.

PLASTICA-MAN1107d ago

Damn, the jump from PS4 to PS5 will be hundred of times bigger than the jump from Atari 2600 to PS4 if they sue such technology. Hell no, it will be sth never done before and not comparable to any jump before (even bigegr and higher than the ulta halo jump of Felix Baumgartner).

andibandit1107d ago

Given that you need a 46"+ tv to even see the difference I really doubt it.

Firebird3601106d ago

No way will we get 4k next gen or the next after that. Ps5 and next box will finally give us all games 1080p @60fps.

ShinMaster1106d ago

I don't think they should focus on 4k at all.
I think games should focus on looking and running as best as possible within 1080p.

If they try to push 4k, games will look no better than they do today.

Nafon1106d ago

I don't get why people are down voting your comments. Last gen consoles, about 8 years older than current gen, struggled to maintain a 720p resolution in games (921,600 pixels). Current gen (namely XB1) are struggling to use a 1080p resolution in games (2,073,600 pixels). 4K, on the other hand, is 8,294,400 pixels. The jump between 720p and 1080p resulted in a little over 2x the pixels which was achievable at similar prices over 8 years. However, 4K is exactly 4x the number of pixels as 1080p, and Moore's law (which is slowing down, I might add) says that next gen consoles will definitely NOT be able to play games at 4K, unless we discover some miracle change to silicon or a whole new fabrication process. Or they come in over 16 years lol

mixolydian_id1106d ago

Wow, straight from the MisterXblog?

All likelihood... that tech won't be adopted until it's incorporated into mainstream computing.

It's more likely you'll see it in the Steambox first

solidt121106d ago

I don't see why not. 4k will be cheap to manufacture by the time a PS5 comes out.

+ Show (14) more repliesLast reply 1106d ago
Future_20151107d ago

Playing all my PC games at 4K, got battlefield 4 running on my 4K monitor on ultra settings but turned off AA and getting a nice 60fps with 2 gtx 780s and i7 3770k at 4.2ghz, consoles will need something special to get 4K gaming with their price point. Money = power

funkybudda1107d ago

@Future_2015,

your logic is false, at PS4's release point last year (even now), you still cant build a PC that offers the same power as PS4 for $399. What makes you think Sony cant come up with something in 5 years time for a PS5?

extermin8or1107d ago

Hmm and thing is you can generally get ps4 cheaper than the 399 rrp.

ABizzel11107d ago

@funkybudda

IMO the PS5 / XB? will have exactly what Future has in his gaming PC, but better.

They'll have a comparable CPU, but with more cores since that's the direction Intel is going with their CPUs and basically what they did with their APUs (if AMD expect 12 - 16 core (FX 6300 X2 / FX 8320 X2), if Intel expect 8 core, or 6 core + 6 threads).

They'll have a single GPU with the performance of two 780s (but since it's a single GPU it'll have the better performance, since SLI causes some performance loss currently; NVLink)

At best they'll have a large pool of ultra fast unified memory, at worst (in this case worse meaning still amazing) they'll have split memory probably with minimum of 8GB of DDR4 (OS, consoles don't need much for the OS) + 8GB of GDDR6 (Games).

Minimum PS5 / XB?
FX 12 - 16 core CPU (AMD is simply the cheaper option to go with)
UHD GTX 180 or AMD equivalent GPU
8GB DDR4
8GB GDDR6
$500

So his comment has some truth to it, Sony and MS are bound by price, and they can't release a console that cost over $500 or it simply won'r sell to their liking. On top of that with those specs 4k gaming is achieveable on current gen games, but with graphics improving it's going to be hard on 2020 games looking for high end graphics. However, the power for 4k gaming will be there, it'll just need some tweaking, and more importantly Future is in the extreme minority of PC gamers.

choujij1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

@funkybudda
"you still cant build a PC that offers the same power as PS4 for $399."

I was curious, so I tried on Newegg and I was successful:
https://pdfshare.it/doc/7HY...

(Sorry for the PDF share, the public wishlist wasn't working).

I think the extra $13 was justifiable, cause I went with a faster quad-core cpu. As well, this build is probably a bit more powerful thanks to the Maxwell GPU.

TheDevKit1107d ago

@funkybudda

I've heard a number of people make this claim and seen it disproved multiple times.

ThatOneGuyThere1107d ago

you forgot OS and input devices. Also, does a 750 really stack up? Meaning, can you run games as nice looking as Infamous at the same resolutions and frame rates?

choujij1107d ago (Edited 1106d ago )

@ThatOneGuyThere

"you forgot OS and input devices."

The OS is up to the end user of course. Steam OS, Ubuntu and other free Linux builds can be installed at no further cost. As far as input devices go, there's ultra cheap to high end. You'd pick your own, and add it to the final price.

"Also, does a 750 really stack up?"

This is a 750 TI. Speaking from personal experience (as I have a 750 TI in my HTPC), I was able to play Watch_Dogs at 1080P 30+fps, with 2x TXAA and other medium/high settings. That was the one game I skipped on PS4 since I was pissed it was being upscaled from 900p.

"can you run games as nice looking as Infamous at the same resolutions and frame rates"

There's very few games that look and play as nice as Infamous: Second Son. :D Plus, I can't play PS exclusives on PC. But with regard to multi-plats, the biggest difference will probably be if the game is well optimized on the PC version. If so, expect the PC version to always look and play as good, if not slightly better. The 750 TI is a very capable and efficient low cost card, which is suitable for 1080p TV's and monitors.

And don't forget, if you're feeling adventurous, you can always download a tool like msi afterburner and crank out some more frames. For me though, I do enjoy the convenience of gaming on my PS4, so most of the time that's where I'll play my multi-plats. Watch_Dogs was an exception. But little did I know at the time, what I gained in res and frame rates, I paid for with the crazy amount of glitches. In retrospect, it wasn't worth it and greatly added to my disappointment of that game.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 1107d ago
Stoppokingme1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

True, There will be a ninth generation for sure. But beyond that is uncharted territory.

People are worried about Moores law hitting a brick wall, but that is still a long time away and surely somebody will find a way around it.

sprinterboy1107d ago

@stoppokingme Moores law will be obsolete by 2025, a world famous physics professor mentioned the nxt computers would be molecular tech, quantum physics is 50/100 yrs away despite what google says

The Great Melon1107d ago

Don't know what you are talking about sprinterboy. Quantum physics is very much an issue with current processor design. Leakage currents occur due tunneling of electrons through the small feature sizes of circuits. The more we try to shrink the features of our ICs the more the electrons just tunnel through everything.

extermin8or1107d ago

@thegreatmelon I think he is talking about the idea of quantum computers and getting abit muddled. The idea that you could have computers doing.multiple processes at the same time with a bit being both on and off at the same time. Ofc I struggle to see computers ever working this way as can you imagine trying to programme for that it would be mind boggling. far more promising is IBM's recent prototype of a pc where an electrolyte is used to conduct the electricity and power the machine instead of wires and also transfers heat out of the machine. Along with things like 3d ram and inevitable could and got advances that is the future.

Dark_Overlord1107d ago

I'm quite interested in this from HP (if it works that is :) )

http://www.extremetech.com/...

The Great Melon1107d ago (Edited 1107d ago )

@extermin8or

Ah, I see. Unfortunately quantum computers will likely not be a revolution for general purpose computing. The types of problems they can solve well are different in nature to what conventional computers are capable of performing. In some instances conventional computers have the upper hand. Regardless of the problems, I look forward to seeing whatever the next paradigm shift in computing will be.

ZoyosJD1106d ago

Moores law is already grinding to a halt on the GPU end. Our first 28nm GPUs launched in 2011, and we're expecting the next set in a few months time to still be 28nm.

There is only so much you can do to architecture without a die shrink.

Intel has been doing amazingly with their finFETs, but they are disabling so many of their die's cores to make it happen. And I don't think 16nm (32 Si atoms) and associated spacing is going to make that any easier.

I'm certain we will see 20nm finFET GPUs as well, but it is still an expensive endeavor and may not see silicon as a feasible option for further shrinks due to the quantum tunneling mentioned.

As for quantum computers, they are indeed an entirely different design requiring a complete overhaul in approach.

Gallium Arsenide and Graphene seem to be the next best bets either traditionally or with opto-electronics(although silicon could possibly be repurposed here as well).

Molecular based tech seems best suited to large scale data storage, not processing at this point.