Warning: the following article contains intense speculations which may or may not anger the fanboy/girl within you. Could the PS5 have RRAM? One site takes an educated guess, and the results seem fairly spot-on
Interesting to think about the advancements in console hardware in five years time, especially since doomsayers suggest that the console is already dead.
I really doubt that next-gen consoles will be able to run games at 4k, but certainly graphics will be ultra-realistic.
Well as far as hardware tech and innovation I would trust Sony to bring together the best of whats available, they have some of the best hardware engineers in the business it's what they do.
Last-gen people also doubted that PS4/X1 consoles will be able to run at 1080p. 4K will be as commonly-used as 1080p currently is in the next decade or so.
@ColeMacGrath Ah... what? PS3 had games at 1080p, why would anyone suggest the successor would not be capable of it?
From my perspective 4k should be the main objective for both Sony and MS, taking into account that currently all TV manufacturers offer 4k TVs and in 5 years period they will be affordable for the majority of consumers (due to price diminishing).
I'd rather an emphasis on better gameplay experience and systems. Better Ai etc than 4k but whatever.
This is a complete no duh, simply because that's the direction that PC GPUs are headed, except stacked DRAM so of course this is all quite possible. With Maxwell (2014 - 2016) NVIDIA has 3 goals, 20nm die shrink, reduce power consumption 20% and increase performance 20%, and create CPU to GPU link (Denver). With Pascal (likely 2016 - 2018) they have another 3 goals. Create unified memory architecture with DRAM / 3D Memory, NVLink (basically improving the PCI to match the performance of high powered GPUs), and GPU to GPU link (SLI finally gives you that near 200% performance boost when using 2 GPUs). The top end Pascal GPU should be more capable of being repurposed into the PlayStation 5 if it launches at my expected date of 2020. The real Maxwell is suppose to double the performance of Kepler, and Pascal is to double the performance of the Kepler refresh (basically the UHD 180 should be at least a 10 GFLOP GPU, 8GB Unified DRAM, 500 GB/s Memory bandwidth, and Denver CPU (like quad core by then)). So yes the PS5 should be a beastly little $500 rig @dmitrijs88 I expect the next-gen consoles to have multiple resolutions. 4k gaming @ 60fps just isn't going to be a common thing, simply because how demanding it is even today on games that are current-gen (Crysis 3, Metro, etc...). To run every game today in 4k @ 60fps you need 3 or 4 GTX 780Ti which is 15 TFLOPS - 22 TFLOPS of performance (and $1,600 - $2,400 of GPU alone). By comparison the PS4 is only 1.84 TFLOPS. and looking at the potential for Pascal it's going to be around 10 - 12 TFLOPS. The good news is that 3 - 4 780 Ti aren't using 100% of their performance between them, so realistically 4k gaming takes less than 22 TFLOPS of performance to achieve since there is always loss in performance when running GPUs in SLI / Crossfire. The bad new it's still going to take a good amount of power. Looking at SLI 780's (which the top tend Pascal should be equal too), and you can do 4k gaming at more than playable framerates for most current games in 4k @ 30fps (Crysis 3 max). So ultimately the PS5 / XB? would likely be using multiple resolutions when making their games from 2k - 4k (1080p has to go, simply because a 1080p game standing next to a 4k gaming is a night and day difference). So we'll have games with resolutions like 2k, 3k, 4k, 2.5k, 3.5k, and everywhere in-between. Resolution is important, but framerate is more important which is why IMO the vast majority of PS5/XB? games should be 60fps given the huge range of resolutions possible.
the thing is,4k is a huge jump in terms of the power needed imo for it to run smooth and look amazing.not to mention the size of the games.
I wouldn't speak too soon. 4K is only now beginning to be a reality for the general public. While very expensive just for "entry level" 4k Tv/monitors and even more pricey for 4K graphics, don't think for 1 second that 5-6 years time you won't be able to have 4K tech for a pretty reasonable price. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the next-gen of consoles could pull it off, even if it was not yet the standard.
I don't expect a lot when it comes to 4k. 1080p/1200p has been a common Desktop resolution for a long, long time now and the consoles can barely keep up with it. 4k is a huge leap, one you need a lot of money now to run competently at high resolutions, and games that push the bar basically instantly make your current "4k" system obsolete, like in the old days when id Software used to release a new game and you needed a new video card to play it maxed out at decent frame rates. I am not saying it isn't possible, I just think the norm will be something else upscaled to 4k. Maybe 1440 or 1600p upscaled to 2160p As for the guy above me saying something about nVidia, so what? You do realize that the Console Makers do not match the latest graphics technology. This could change, but the current GPU in the PS4 is about equal to a GTX580, which is still pretty good, but far behind something like the 780 or upcoming 880. I think the best we can hope for in 3-5 years when a new console is released, is something about as good as the 880 when it comes out this fall. As well, I still think we may see the console guys change their models at some point, and go with a Smartphone/IOS type model where we can buy newer consoles, and keep almost full backwards compatibility with old software. Sort of how you can buy a game on an ipad 2 and it will work on the new ipad Air, but an ipad Air game may not work on an ipad 2. If that happens, we could see new hardware every few years that gives us incremental steps. I would love that.
Maybe its just me but given you need a TV too big for most homes to really get the benefit of 4K I would prefer a really stunning 1080p image over "wasting" next-next-gen power on hitting 4k.
Damn, the jump from PS4 to PS5 will be hundred of times bigger than the jump from Atari 2600 to PS4 if they sue such technology. Hell no, it will be sth never done before and not comparable to any jump before (even bigegr and higher than the ulta halo jump of Felix Baumgartner).
Given that you need a 46"+ tv to even see the difference I really doubt it.
No way will we get 4k next gen or the next after that. Ps5 and next box will finally give us all games 1080p @60fps.
I don't think they should focus on 4k at all. I think games should focus on looking and running as best as possible within 1080p. If they try to push 4k, games will look no better than they do today.
I don't get why people are down voting your comments. Last gen consoles, about 8 years older than current gen, struggled to maintain a 720p resolution in games (921,600 pixels). Current gen (namely XB1) are struggling to use a 1080p resolution in games (2,073,600 pixels). 4K, on the other hand, is 8,294,400 pixels. The jump between 720p and 1080p resulted in a little over 2x the pixels which was achievable at similar prices over 8 years. However, 4K is exactly 4x the number of pixels as 1080p, and Moore's law (which is slowing down, I might add) says that next gen consoles will definitely NOT be able to play games at 4K, unless we discover some miracle change to silicon or a whole new fabrication process. Or they come in over 16 years lol
Wow, straight from the MisterXblog? All likelihood... that tech won't be adopted until it's incorporated into mainstream computing. It's more likely you'll see it in the Steambox first
I don't see why not. 4k will be cheap to manufacture by the time a PS5 comes out.
Playing all my PC games at 4K, got battlefield 4 running on my 4K monitor on ultra settings but turned off AA and getting a nice 60fps with 2 gtx 780s and i7 3770k at 4.2ghz, consoles will need something special to get 4K gaming with their price point. Money = power
@Future_2015, your logic is false, at PS4's release point last year (even now), you still cant build a PC that offers the same power as PS4 for $399. What makes you think Sony cant come up with something in 5 years time for a PS5?
Hmm and thing is you can generally get ps4 cheaper than the 399 rrp.
@funkybudda IMO the PS5 / XB? will have exactly what Future has in his gaming PC, but better. They'll have a comparable CPU, but with more cores since that's the direction Intel is going with their CPUs and basically what they did with their APUs (if AMD expect 12 - 16 core (FX 6300 X2 / FX 8320 X2), if Intel expect 8 core, or 6 core + 6 threads). They'll have a single GPU with the performance of two 780s (but since it's a single GPU it'll have the better performance, since SLI causes some performance loss currently; NVLink) At best they'll have a large pool of ultra fast unified memory, at worst (in this case worse meaning still amazing) they'll have split memory probably with minimum of 8GB of DDR4 (OS, consoles don't need much for the OS) + 8GB of GDDR6 (Games). Minimum PS5 / XB? FX 12 - 16 core CPU (AMD is simply the cheaper option to go with) UHD GTX 180 or AMD equivalent GPU 8GB DDR4 8GB GDDR6 $500 So his comment has some truth to it, Sony and MS are bound by price, and they can't release a console that cost over $500 or it simply won'r sell to their liking. On top of that with those specs 4k gaming is achieveable on current gen games, but with graphics improving it's going to be hard on 2020 games looking for high end graphics. However, the power for 4k gaming will be there, it'll just need some tweaking, and more importantly Future is in the extreme minority of PC gamers.
@funkybudda "you still cant build a PC that offers the same power as PS4 for $399." I was curious, so I tried on Newegg and I was successful: https://pdfshare.it/doc/7HY... (Sorry for the PDF share, the public wishlist wasn't working). I think the extra $13 was justifiable, cause I went with a faster quad-core cpu. As well, this build is probably a bit more powerful thanks to the Maxwell GPU.
@funkybudda I've heard a number of people make this claim and seen it disproved multiple times.
you forgot OS and input devices. Also, does a 750 really stack up? Meaning, can you run games as nice looking as Infamous at the same resolutions and frame rates?
@ThatOneGuyThere "you forgot OS and input devices." The OS is up to the end user of course. Steam OS, Ubuntu and other free Linux builds can be installed at no further cost. As far as input devices go, there's ultra cheap to high end. You'd pick your own, and add it to the final price. "Also, does a 750 really stack up?" This is a 750 TI. Speaking from personal experience (as I have a 750 TI in my HTPC), I was able to play Watch_Dogs at 1080P 30+fps, with 2x TXAA and other medium/high settings. That was the one game I skipped on PS4 since I was pissed it was being upscaled from 900p. "can you run games as nice looking as Infamous at the same resolutions and frame rates" There's very few games that look and play as nice as Infamous: Second Son. :D Plus, I can't play PS exclusives on PC. But with regard to multi-plats, the biggest difference will probably be if the game is well optimized on the PC version. If so, expect the PC version to always look and play as good, if not slightly better. The 750 TI is a very capable and efficient low cost card, which is suitable for 1080p TV's and monitors. And don't forget, if you're feeling adventurous, you can always download a tool like msi afterburner and crank out some more frames. For me though, I do enjoy the convenience of gaming on my PS4, so most of the time that's where I'll play my multi-plats. Watch_Dogs was an exception. But little did I know at the time, what I gained in res and frame rates, I paid for with the crazy amount of glitches. In retrospect, it wasn't worth it and greatly added to my disappointment of that game.
True, There will be a ninth generation for sure. But beyond that is uncharted territory. People are worried about Moores law hitting a brick wall, but that is still a long time away and surely somebody will find a way around it.
@stoppokingme Moores law will be obsolete by 2025, a world famous physics professor mentioned the nxt computers would be molecular tech, quantum physics is 50/100 yrs away despite what google says
Don't know what you are talking about sprinterboy. Quantum physics is very much an issue with current processor design. Leakage currents occur due tunneling of electrons through the small feature sizes of circuits. The more we try to shrink the features of our ICs the more the electrons just tunnel through everything.
@thegreatmelon I think he is talking about the idea of quantum computers and getting abit muddled. The idea that you could have computers doing.multiple processes at the same time with a bit being both on and off at the same time. Ofc I struggle to see computers ever working this way as can you imagine trying to programme for that it would be mind boggling. far more promising is IBM's recent prototype of a pc where an electrolyte is used to conduct the electricity and power the machine instead of wires and also transfers heat out of the machine. Along with things like 3d ram and inevitable could and got advances that is the future.
I'm quite interested in this from HP (if it works that is :) ) http://www.extremetech.com/...
@extermin8or Ah, I see. Unfortunately quantum computers will likely not be a revolution for general purpose computing. The types of problems they can solve well are different in nature to what conventional computers are capable of performing. In some instances conventional computers have the upper hand. Regardless of the problems, I look forward to seeing whatever the next paradigm shift in computing will be.
Moores law is already grinding to a halt on the GPU end. Our first 28nm GPUs launched in 2011, and we're expecting the next set in a few months time to still be 28nm. There is only so much you can do to architecture without a die shrink. Intel has been doing amazingly with their finFETs, but they are disabling so many of their die's cores to make it happen. And I don't think 16nm (32 Si atoms) and associated spacing is going to make that any easier. I'm certain we will see 20nm finFET GPUs as well, but it is still an expensive endeavor and may not see silicon as a feasible option for further shrinks due to the quantum tunneling mentioned. As for quantum computers, they are indeed an entirely different design requiring a complete overhaul in approach. Gallium Arsenide and Graphene seem to be the next best bets either traditionally or with opto-electronics(although silicon could possibly be repurposed here as well). Molecular based tech seems best suited to large scale data storage, not processing at this point.
@ZoyosJD I don't know if graphene will be as promising as the media likes to make it out to be. While the mobility of electrons is ridiculous high in ideal cases, it unfortunately suffers from the lack of a band game unlike conventional semi-conductors. It essentially makes circuits that can never be turned off. I know of several research groups that are beginning to focus elsewhere at my university as progress in graphene hasn't been great in the past couple years. Granted these are public research programs and I don't know what Intel has under wraps exactly; however, I know from my friend they seem to still have a lot of R&D in graphene. Regardless, while graphene may be useful in certain applications of computing, it won't be any sort of major replacement to silicon (the semiconductor industry loves their silicon to no end). Don't know to much about molecular computing, but it sounds interesting as that is a little more foreign to my electrical engineering and physics background.
Stacked dram is said to be the plan for both nvidia and AMD in the near future, so it only makes sense that'll be in the next consoles as well. Why would anyone get angry about that? Oh right, I remember. Fanboys are not rational.
The PS4 hasn't even had it's first birthday yet. This conversation is a bit premature. Edit: That's what she said!
Those doomsayers are idiots, though. They are replacing statistics with speculation. The console market has never been this good.
They also say the Wii U dead, but it looks like it's going to have a great second half this year.
Consoles 7 years from now could be using technology from 2014? Sounds about right when GDDR5 was from 2007
It will have something like 16GB GDDR5 or even stick with 8 as the RAM probably wont be what need upgrading.. Most people thought the PS4 would come with silly futuristic hardware 2 years ago. These never happen for 2 reasons.. 1. They choose cheaper more mass market hardware to keep down costs. 2. They will have learned already from PS3 that new fancy hardware that they have to learn to develop for doesn't help there situation. Sony went X86 this gen to help developers I cannot see them going back to new gen hardware and alientating them again.
I for 1 do not comment on random gaming sites rumors or speculations.
I agree and for all the people saying in the next decade or so 4k will be common place try again considering they by 2015 or next year they will be able to produce 3d fully coloured holographic images. So 4k in a decade will be old tech by then....just sayin. If you don't believe me check out this site. http://www.phonearena.com/n...
TOO EARLY for talks now plus I don't even have a ps4 yet
the PS5 will be better than the Xbox2...no doubt about that
Next-next-next gen when everyone debates whether a console multiplat runs at 12k resolution or not ;p
4k, not 12k. And that's only if 4k becomes the high def standard by then. We have to be realistic here.
It was a joke mate. next-next-next gen, unless that was a joke as well, in case mindfucked :/
@ jg4xchamp, I totally missed the part in the beginning. My apologies.
Don't think 4k will ever come mass market just like 3d ever did as people are very happy with 1080p. To be honest they only upgraded to blu-ray as DVD couldnt do 1080p. 4K is going to be a very hard sell and I think people will want to spend there money on other forms of media than getting TV looking better hell our broadcast networks still don't even broadcast in 1080p they onyl do 720p and not even a quarter of the channels are in basic HD.
/hmmm well xbox isn't going anywhere the RRam sounds like sane business sense as it could generate alot of money especially if it really is as simple as they make out although i'd say ps3 has at least 2-3 more years on sale.
PS5 are faaaar away. Who knows what specs will be.
Good observation! I remember last generation when infinite predictions were made regarding ps4 and xbone, but in the end none of the predictions was even close with the final product :-) None of them thought about an APU, but both Sony and MS chose this solution. So we should wait and see :-)
Well you need to look at Amd and Nvidia road maps for upcoming years,atm both MS and Sony are doing post mortem and they will start working on next gen HW next year. The hardware has to be set in stone atleast 1 year before they start production.
1. PS5 is likely 2020. 2. We can predict specs, simply because we have a timeline from the biggest manufacturer in GPUs and graphics processing (NVIDIA). On top of that they've given multiple presentations and layouts of where they want GPUs to go and be over the course of the next few years. http://techreport.com/r.x/2... Maxwell 2014 - 2016 (750 and 750 Ti are out now, the 800 series should start before the end of the year, and possibly a 900 series for 2015 - 2016) Pascal 2016 - 2018 (which the PS5 / XB? are more than likely to be based on in pre production). Volta 2018 - 2020 (which the PS5 / XB? are likely to be finalized upon; however, still have a reference model based on Pascal just like the PS4 and XBO are technically R-series GPUs, but still have reference models in AMD 7000 series) Finite details we'll never know until they launch. Speculation, and speculations of performance can be easily theorized and executed today (with multiple GPUs).
Knight's Landing's Successor might work. http://www.extremetech.com/... It would probably be close to 12 teraflops. It would need re-purposing with texture units and maybe a rasterizer, but it could be interesting.
@cchum LAMO, that's complete overkill. An i7 4770 is more than enough already.
It's fair to say that they could begin R&D for PS5 as early as next year. The PS4 R&D started late 2007.
In that case, I have about 7years to start caring about PS5 R&D
R&D never stops just because a new console launches. There are ideas that did not make the final build because of cost and time, That will make it into the next console. Taking Nintendo's R&D for example- Wii-Mote concept was around during GameCube but Nintendo decided to wait for a new launch and a "faster and more powerful" system.
Am I the only one that thinks a box under your TV will be massively phased out within 5-7 years? The foundations are set, ps now, access etc. I see future TV's just being able to do play games out of the box of with updates etc. I personally would much rather have a console however!
Yeah, it is likely that at some point in the future we'll all have internet enabled TV's / devices and MS / Sony will have developed streaming services to the point that it will be as commonplace to stream a game as it now is to stream a movie via Netflix etc. We are moving toward a service driven landscape for gaming rather than hardware driven one. It will take a long time, but I can't see any other way it can go. I think 5-7 may be too soon as the whole thing is very reliant on network bandwidth and response times - which are moving forward quickly, but not quick enough. PSNow and Cloud Compute are the first steps on this path. EDIT: Also, with the sales of PS4 and XB1 hardware outstripping the previous gen at the moment I can't see either MS / Sony abandoning hardware any time soon. Next gen will likely focus on ensuring 100% profitability of hardware from Day 1. Which is achievable if they continue making their console 'PC like'
I think a large part of the success, especially the ps4, of current sales surpassing last gen for this stage are down to really good marketing and the fact console gamers were absolutely crying out loud for the next gen, especially with the PC performance levels just destroying last gen. As a businesses. They could just as easily focus their marketing strategy on streaming through TVs or supplying a digital focused gen of purely no physical 'PlayStation 5' needed. Of course this is entirely dependent on how the internets infrastructure is setup by then, as it stands it won't work. PS now for me is just like a beta for how they want the future to be, I'm not sure if I like that though. I'd miss my console and discs!
i have a feeling the PlayStation TV is the PS5. its obvious Sony and MS don't want us to own our games. PlayStation TV will release very cheap and pure guess in 6 years time Sony says "surprise PS5 released 6 years ago and you can buy it right this minute".
We aren't getting rid of dedicated boxes anytime soon, nor physical games regardless of the storage medium disappearing either. Sony and ms can do whatever they please, but they are at the mercy of whether the gaming public is onboard or not.
When things like Google Fiber are more largely available and Cable is available everywhere so DSL doesn't exist anymore, maybe.
Too early to tell. They could be powered by dna from a monkey's butt, for all we know...
I feel there is no point in discussing next gen, when this gens hardly even started. I hope PS4 has a long life cycle as considering were almost a year in, it doesn't feel like it. I personally think that this generation started a year too soon. Imagine if it released this fall, with all the games so far released and all those coming this fall being its launch titles!
"I personally think that this generation started a year too soon" It didn't. If the PS4 and Xbox One had been released this fall, it would have been the same scenario. The reason the games take a while is because they plan them according to the launch. So most likely you would still have to wait a year for the flow of games to begin. However, it's actually good that the PS4 released last year, since we are just 6 months from having great games (although there are great games coming this year too). Next year is going to be packed with great games throughout. 2015 is when it begins to be awesome having a next-gen console.
Looking at it that way, youre right. Its a shame,as although there's been some great games out this year, it just hasn't been enough to fill my time.