"The Talos Principle is an upcoming puzzle game for the PlayStation 4 and PC. The game was first announced at the Sony’s press conference at E3 this year. The Talos Principle is being developed by Croteam, the team that bought us Serious Sam."
Sony got it spot on with the designing of the Ps4
That's what happens when you do your homework and give consumers and devs what they want.
Or, you know, have an actual game developer as the system architect. Thanks again Mark!
I love hearing about Dev's learning new API and all the sub programing languages. I am a complete noob, but took a few classes in programing and it just has been a boat load of fun. It to me is like putting puzzle pieces together. I think that these new consoles X1,PS4, and even WiiU will have longer legs then we expect. Sure my super high end PC is better, faster, etc I think user access being so easy will always have a home with a lot of customers. I just wish I could get access to learn some of the fundamentals for PS4 API. Does any one know when I could look into this? Thanks,
@Edvin1984 Their API is just OpenGL core (modified sure). They also use FreeBSD as their OS (codename Orbis). X1 is using DirectX 11.x, and next year they are using 12.x and a Windows 8 core OS. So the idiot that's talking about how different the PS4's API is from OpenGL and DirectX/Direct3D is just moronic and a Sony mouth peace. I think its in the contract if Sony lets you put an indie game on their Console you have to verbally suck them off online.
You won't be able to find too much information on it besides high-level discussions in things like interviews. That comes with signing a developer NDA. You've got the keywords 'GNM' and 'GNMx' to look up though. 'GNM' is the PS4's lowest-level API and 'GNMx' is a higher-level wrapper around that. Strangely, a lot of people mistakenly think 'PSSL' is the name of the API, but that's just the official name for the shader language used on the PS4 ('PSSL', as in 'PlayStation Shader Langauge'), so don't be thrown by that if you see it. Have a scan through for the relevant sections in these. They should help a little:- http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... Beyond that perhaps look for some industry presentations on Mantle and DirectX12 that came out earlier this year (can't remember the names off the top of my head - definitely one from DICE though). There are some good articles on the net for them too. You may be able to see possibilities of how the console API's function looking into these. The principle isn't too dissimilar.
Thanks guys this is pretty interesting stuff, and its just a hobby. As I said I am just a beginner, but I really enjoy my entry level programing thus far. In a way it is like playing a video game, but with better AI, no recharging health, and no one calling my mom names lol......j/k. Very interesting stuff now I have something to read up on. Thank you,
Cerny did an amazing job with the console. I'm glad that many developers love it.
Cerny glued over the counter PC parts into a box and tilted it at a slant. Besides the GDDR5 there is nothing amazing in the PS4. No matter how hard people want to believe it, you don't pay $400 for revolutionary tech. Same can be said for X1.
But that doesn't mean that he didn't do an amazing job with it... It's exactly what most geeks would have made if they had the choice and budget. Rather than skimp on hardware to include the hardware version of bloatware in the box. Ps4 is exactly what it should be for $400!
What the matter ,you got sand in your vagina?
At many PC Mucstard race already hate to admit, but the fact is you cant build gaming PC for $400 that performs like PS4. And the fact that Xbox One is charging the same price as PS4 with inferior hardware is plain robbery. I guess some people just like to pay more for less.
@mwjw696: I'm willing to bet you don't even know how a light bulb works. Do me a favor and find all the parts in the PS4 from a PC store. Don't worry. I'll wait. I imagine I'll be fifty before then, so I'll see ya in a few decades.
@mwjw696 When the 360 came out it was bleeding edge technology that was better than anything in PCs at the time. So yes, $400 can get you top of the line hardware.
@Spotie Positive AC current flows through a copper wire typically 12v current. Goes through a filament that's normally I think Zinc or tungsten (could be wrong) that causes a chemical reaction the cause the filament to glow brightly. That connects to the negative AC current wire... any more questions? I apologize if I confused you about gluing the parts together. I mean there is nothing special in that box. Its a 7970M (but downgraded) AMD GPU, an underclocked to 1.6Ghz(capable of 2Ghz but lowered because of the heat) 8 core AMD Jaguar CPU, a 5200RPM 500GB Laptop hard drive, and 8GB of GDDR5 RAM. WOHO LOOK AT ALL THAT SPECIAL HARDWARE! The Ram is they only thing of note and it was a bad choose. It will not show right now but the Ram + CPU will be its main bottleneck down the road. What would a no talent Indie know about maxing out a machine, and what would a child that worships Sony know about building a PC... @Sy_Wolf Did you know when it launched at $600 USD the PS3 Cost Sony $900 to make? That does not include shipping overseas, advertisements, Retail costs, and defective units. The New Xbox One and PS4 are already selling for a profit. It took 3 Years for the 360 to make a profit, and 5 years for the PS3. So yes you USED to be able to get more for your money, but that's because Sony and MS lost money. Not this generation.
It's the architecture of the ps4 , both on the inside and out that make it such a beast , mark cerny be thy name.
I'm not a tech guy at all, but if the API was close to the metal from the beginning, do they have space from improvements? It is important to improve the API and for this they need resources. Am I right that the current API is based on the CPU and for the future will be based on the GPGPU?
I do not understand the disagrees. It was a sincere question. What I said wrong? Please enlighten me. Thanks in advance!
It's as good as it ever will be. Consoles don't get much in the way of improvements (a few OS updates). Maybe they could put in a better wireless card and optical drive but nothing that fundamentally updates the graphics
All consoles use close to the metal APIs. The reason they can do that easily is because of the completely static nature of the hardware. Higher level APIs were designed because on a PC there are basically infinite amounts of hardware configurations. Just because the API is already basically at the metal doesn't mean that it can't be drastically improved. Improving the API has nothing to do with moving it "closer to the metal" on consoles. Console APIs used to not get tweaked much but that changed last generation when online was pushed so hard. The APIs in the 360 and PS3 are almost indistinguishable from what they were 8 years ago.
Yeah. To put it simply, there is almost always a more efficient way to do things in programming. Close to the metal just refers to the ability to bypass higher level code, which itself can be just as efficient, but typically isn't as it is typically more generalized. In a console however, high level code can be extremely specific to a purpose, unlike in a PC. In fact, many high level functions for consoles are written by developers in order to make that low level coding easier for things that get done repeatedly so they don't have to continuously rewrite the same low level code, but they would be more efficient than a typical library API. In low level code(close to the metal), you have to do things procedurally, which means you have to take the code step by step through the process of getting an end result. With high level code, you can write a generalized function, which the compiler or RTE will translate all those steps for you into machine code. To make low level code more efficient, the API's designed to access the hardware can give access to things not used before, or use more efficient methods of getting ones code to the hardware, or improve the pipeline used to shift data around within the processor or system bus(although the latter is typically a system wide change) However, as a caveat, much of the improvement later in a generation comes from developers learning new tricks which get that last little bit of power out of the hardware, thus making their own code more efficient. Sometimes that can be due to better API's which make low level coding simpler. Sorry if I went off the simplicity I promised at the beginning.:)
Thanks for your elaborated and friendly answer!
The fact that so many Sony fans are high fiving each other actually makes me believe they now acknowledge DX12 will make the Xbox One better. This developer says DX11 is bloated. That's what Xbox One currently uses. But next year Xbox One moves to DX12. DX12 is not bloated at all. In fact, it has some improvements not seen on other APIs. So if the lack of bloat makes 1080p easy on PS4, than DX12 will make it easy for Xbox One. GPUs from five years ago could do 1080p. And the GPU in Xbox One is much more powerful than those. So expect Xbox One to match PS4 in resolution in the near future across the board. Code once across all platforms.
"The fact that so many Sony fans are high fiving each other actually makes me believe they now acknowledge DX12 will make the Xbox One better." Very few ever said it wouldn't, though you may want to pretend otherwise. The point of contention was from XB fans claiming it would improve the console by leaps and bounds, when even MS says it won't.
So now people believe what Microsoft says? The problem is most have said that it won't make much of a difference. Naughty Dog said it wouldn't make 1080p more likely. But this developer says the low overhead makes 1080p way. And he says DX11 has a large overhead. But we all know D12 will be much faster. So if this developer is on point about low overhead, then the same properties have to exist for Xbox One. Only a idiot believes the GPU is just incapable of doing it. And as for what Microsoft said about DX12, if you were them, wouldn't you play coy also. Why blab about it before you get a big reveal at next year's E3.
I can't speak for others, but I never claimed DX12 wouldn't make the X1 better, or that it wouldn't help in making 1080p more achievable on the X1. I just didn't believe that it would make the system super powerful the way some X1 fan boys were claiming. Anyhow, OT. DX12 will make it easier to achieve 1080p. That pretty much goes without saying, as the code is simpler and more efficient than the current bloated DX11.x. However, 1080p in the X1 is still going to be limited by the hardware in the X1, and no magical API is really going to change that for a console which already uses similar methods of optimization to achieve higher graphics with weaker hardware. That was my main argument through the whole ordeal a couple months ago. X1 already uses low level functions and close to metal programming, which is the biggest benefit that DX12 brings to the table. The improved shader pipeline and memory management will help, but again, it will be limited by the hardware. The only way to improve the actual graphics as drastically as many were claiming, would be to find new ways of processing graphics data which is drastically different and much more efficient on the memory bus/processor. That's unlikely to happen, and if it were, it would be designed around a new processor architecture anyhow.
@rainslacker, I don't believe it will make Xbox One a super machine, but I do believe it was designed with DX12 in mind. To run it as efficiently as possible. During the Build talk they mentioned having paths to send information. Some of the diagrams I've seen of the APU in One show multiple paths for the code to move. It looks like it's not about sending massive chunks, but just what's needed without any delays. I admit I'm not in the field, but I do recall many of the different talks over the last year or so that don't mean much separately but taken together mean much more than some are saying. Especially when the detractors are coming from within Sony or from the press.
on amazon you can find ps4s below 400 bucks and other websites to its even cheaper
Closer to pc lol. 60fps or 120fps. Are you lowering settings and leaving out features to achieve this? As time goes on these console game engines become more optimized but people forget new gfx features and tech always comes out throughout their life cycle. Right. It's tech these consoles can't handle, what's gonna happen in a year or so. Great info tho. Just bring the games.
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