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Sony sued over Killzone: Shadow Fall's graphics

The lawsuit alleges that "'temporal reprojection' is not the 'native 1080p' that Sony promised" and that Sony has not updated its packaging and marketing to reflect the game's actual resolution. Class allegations in the suit include negligent misrepresentation, false advertisement, unfair competition and fraud in the inducement. The amount sought in the suit exceeds $5,000,000.

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famoussasjohn1205d ago

What sucks is being misled. Granted $5 million is rather excessive. I would just ask for my $60 back. Same would be for BF4 for being a complete mess.

kneon1205d ago

The problem is even if you were to win you wouldn't get your $60 back. After the lawyers take their cut you'll be lucky to have enough left over to buy lunch.

Class action lawsuits are almost always pointless, the only winners are the lawyers.

donthate1205d ago

There should be a ceiling on lawyer compensation as a percentage of the final settlement or payout.

That guarantees they will handle in the best interest of the client instead of some arbitrary number based on "how many hours or work was spent reported by me, the greedy lawyer".

That said, this will make Sony think twice about deceptive marketing. Don't say 1080p native, when you mean 1080p jagged experience (aka temporal reprojection)!

Aceman181205d ago

all i can say is wow lol. he won't see a dime of this money.

ShinMaster1205d ago

"I fail to see how this is any different than Xbox 360 game boxes displaying that games were 1080p when they were in fact 720p upscaled to 1080p."

Detoxx1205d ago

BF4 is not a mess for me. It's like every other Battlefield game, ever. I love it.

Utalkin2me1205d ago

@Detoxx

Stevie Wonder is that you?

kreate1205d ago

Glad they're getting sued. Win or lose.

This will show the industry not to do such things. Or at least be more clear.

DevilOgreFish1205d ago

ShinMaster -
"I fail to see how this is any different than Xbox 360 game boxes displaying that games were 1080p when they were in fact 720p upscaled to 1080p."

you mean at the back of the box? no game says "native" at the back of box unless it's part of the game's description of merits.

"In Beautiful 1080p Graphics!"

The back of every box is the support section. supports - "480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i ,1080p".

Sevir1205d ago

LOL WOW! but The game DOES run Native 1080p on SINGLE PLAYER. and Temporal reprojection is employed on Multiplayer to achieve 60fps... I cant believe that this is actually happening.

How and as far as the Box says for shadowfall... it says HD Video output 1080p... whether the console upscales it to that resolution or the TV does. NO WHERE ON THE BOX does the GAME EXPLICITY claims NATIVE!

and BF4 on PS4 doesn't list the native resolution but the box does say the very same thing for KILLZONE SHADOWFALL... my head hurts over this!

purp13m0nk3y1204d ago

Considering KZ MP is heaps of fun, plays brilliantly, has virtually zero bugs and looks gorgeous (irrespective of the 1080p argument) this is kind of sad.

Especially considering BF4 has been a complete mess and basically unplayable for much of it's release. Where do I sign to sue EA for that abomination?

As for KZ SF being native 1080p. Well I had thought that debacle had been settled months ago! I can't believe people are still arguing that it's not 1080p native. Just because the average gamer doesn't understand how the render pipeline for this game works, doesn't mean it's not 1080p native. It just means they are misinformed and/or ignorant.

This law suit will never see the courtroom. Anyone with at least some common sense and the ability to understand the tech behind the "temporal projection" technique will understand the stupidity of this suit.

Boody-Bandit1204d ago (Edited 1204d ago )

Frivolous lawsuit and they wont see a cent of it.

It does not state on the box anywhere that it is "Native 1080p". Instead it's written "1080p video output". In the fine print it's written "Video Output in Full HD 1080p requires a "Native 1080p Display" This is a play on words that won't hold up. Lawyers are such leeches.

Image of KZ retail box
http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/ent...

GG's lawyers will have a field day with this. Output vs Full HD vs Native will be a battle lost for these losers bringing forth this nonsensical lawsuit against GG. They have to prove intent to deceive. Not going to happen.

Gorilla_Killa_X1204d ago

I guess we have some lawyers up in here. Hahaha.

sinspirit1204d ago

@DevilOgreFish

"1080p" means native. If a game is 720p then the game is 720p, no matter if the console upscales it to a higher resolution, the actual content is at that resolution. What the console supports is different form what the game actually features.

KillZone: ShadowFall itself produces a native 1080p image. So, I would consider it native 1080p no matter what trick they used to get it to that native resolution.

callahan091204d ago (Edited 1204d ago )

@sinspirit: "KillZone: ShadowFall itself produces a native 1080p image. So, I would consider it native 1080p no matter what trick they used to get it to that native resolution."

This is right. It's 1080p, and natively so. The actual image produced by the renderer is a native 1080p image. They employed some rendering tricks to get to that, but that doesn't make it any less so. It isn't rendered at 720p, or 900p, or any other resolution, then upscaled to 1080p. It is actually rendered at 1080p natively, which they accomplished by using temporal reprojection. And besides, the single player experienced was 1080p native WITHOUT temporal reprojection to assist the rendering process. So what's the problem here? This game was absolutely stunningly gorgeous, as well, so the complaints are just stupid.

Guitardr851204d ago

@youaresalty

I've heard this argument a lot about careers that other people think "make too much". If there was a cap on how much you make, then why choose that career in the first place?

ChronoJoe1204d ago

What about all of the Halo and Call of Duty games that come packaged with 720p or 1080p on the box?

What about Wipeout HD which is advertised as 1080p but actually dynamically switches between 720 and 1080p?

This is an interesting case, I'm fairly confident he won't be successful, but if he were it would set an interesting president leaving Microsoft and Activision with the most to lose.

Pain1204d ago (Edited 1204d ago )

Pretty sad that people will try and sue a company over a games graphics.. Nothing better to do with your lives?

hears a hint play games get a life and try your hardest to find a wife and have a family and learn what life really is and not be daft loser fanboy suing a company over graphics oh sorry false advertising waaa waaa.. waaa.. shoot your self.

warczar1204d ago

@kneon

A class action lawsuit is about the only way you can sue a corporation. The "law" grants them all kinds protections, that's why they could give a fuck less about false advertising.

badz1491204d ago

OMG this is happening?? Let me join in the fun while we are at it but suing KZSF is kinda pointless as only the dumbs would believe it's not 1080p. Instead, let's us all sue EA for BF4 (that's acronym for BrokenField 4 if any of you are wondering) and Bethesda for Wolfenstein TNO because that game is proven to use variable resolutions to achieve 60fps when it was advertised as native 1080p! I think we'll have a better chance with those.

How dare they deceive us, right?

4Sh0w1204d ago (Edited 1204d ago )

Listen let's cut the BS, Sony/GG were not upfront or totally transparent when it comes to KZSF's resolution BEFORE it launched but that doesn't amount to a lawsuit. Also I'm not defending sony but remember the singleplayer is native 1080p. At most I think the tiny minority upset over such a minor difference should have just returned the game to the store or asked sony directly for their money back. I mean are gamers that caught up in pixel counting that such a trivial difference makes the game itself any less enjoyable? imo KZ SF wasn't that good but it sure as hell had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RESOLUTION. The game graphically looked amazing, really nothing visually to complain about.

This lawsuit is BS plain and simple.

CuddlyREDRUM1204d ago

@kneon... The lawsuit against EA from a couple years ago told me otherwise. All I did was fill out a form and got about fifty bucks.

When companies lie and get away with it stuff like this will happen again.

Dee_911204d ago (Edited 1204d ago )

Why the hell do you all believe this lawsuit will go through? If this doesn't get thrown out immediately, which is very likely to happen, you bet your ass Sony will fight to the point the guy suing goes broke or his lawyers back out.

gootimes1204d ago

@YouAreSalty

Deceptive marketing? How is 1080p native single player and 1080p temporal deceptive?

That is why they didn't put native on the box! Because only the single player is standard native 1080p.

Microsoft claimed their games were 1080p, but they are up scaled! They don't get sued? Micro gets too many free passes, Killzone isn't even up scaled, the pixels are all there.

BallsEye1204d ago

What sucks is that suddenly by reading comments I see all the fanboys changing their tune and saying 1080p does not influence the experience and does not matter at all. If there's any XO game running 1 pixel below 1080p sh!t storm begins.

Giul_Xainx1204d ago (Edited 1204d ago )

Whoever wanted to sue over this had to be a fanboy.

But seriously class action lawsuits are mostly a waste of everyone's time. The only winners in this scenario are the lawyers.

ShinMaster1203d ago

@ DevilOgreFish

It's still misleading. The back of PS3 game boxes said the actual resolution (720p or 1080i).

+ Show (25) more repliesLast reply 1203d ago
Silver3601205d ago

For everybody that doesn't understand. This guy is not suing for 5 million by himself. Class action means that everyone that brought the game can be a part of the suit and get some small portion of money. Even if he does when he will no get that money by himself, it will be held for others to share.

iamnsuperman1205d ago

Still a large amount of money. It seems more of a ploy to get a settlement than to win out right.

Muzikguy1205d ago (Edited 1205d ago )

I doubt we will see anything, the lawyers will get the money. Personally I'm getting tired of the deception companies are trying to pull lately.

Magicite1205d ago

Nowadays You can get sued for almost anything and the more money You have the more You can loose.

JeffGUNZ1204d ago

To me, this is more of a march of awareness of the false advertising. It's good they are getting sued. I doubt they will have to pay much or anything as the single player runs in native 1080 I believe? Yet, it brings the issue to light that gamers don't want to be lied to. Saying it was not native 1080 on MP would have probably changed zero minds on whether or not they would have bought it.

CuddlyREDRUM1204d ago

If you purposefully lie to sell a product, yes you will get sued. Sony also tried something with Watch Dogs before it came out...

http://www.gamespot.com/art...

Then a day later they found out it was false advertising and lying, having to retract it.

http://www.thesixthaxis.com...

joab7771205d ago

Would u really ask for ur money back? Yeah, I don't like being lied to, but c'mon, it didn't effect my experience 1 bit.

rezzah1204d ago

While that may be true for some or most, this case brings to light the intentions of Sony to the public. It puts Sony under a shadow and makes them lose trust, something they've recently been successfully building.

Also it with likely force them to be truthful about other future games resolutions, that is if they want to regain public trust (not overall, just primarily in the resolution department).

joab7771205d ago

After reading what is really going on, this is parsing words. Many games use many techniques that are not 1080 but are considered native.

It's actually a testament to the technique that it performs so well and allows resourced to b used elsewhere. We can nitpick but the other alternative, since so many tricks r used in making games, is to never say native or not but to give a paragraph long description of stuff most ppl won't understand anyway.

DoomeDx1204d ago

Guerilla's answer so this entire situation:

http://killzone.com/en_GB/b...

Technically, they have a point

Ju1204d ago

In that regard no game is native 1080p. The rendering pipeline consist of various buffers at various resolutions which are combined to render into a backbuffer. "Native" usually refers to that backbuffer being 1080p native. But how you combine those buffers often does use a 1:1 ratio. Filters are applied to textures before hand, shadowmaps are scaled, etc. This is nitpicking and ridiculous, seriously. But w/e. Some people just have creative business ideas...and here it sure isn"t Guerilla having that idea - even though I give them the props up for creativity coming up with the temporal scaling. Has never been done before. I guess what that guy really is suing about is the motion blur...which actually got toned down in a patch.

CuddlyREDRUM1204d ago

1080p has always been 1080 pixels running vertically, natively.

Temporal reprojection means it is not native 1080p. This means that they lied about it.

Technically, they lied about it.

ITPython1204d ago Show
wsoutlaw871204d ago

This is so idiotic. Not only was no one deceived and the single player was in 1080 as the devs stated but it wasnt a main advertising point by sony. Hes stupid if he thinks he can prove in court that everyone should get their money back because of a technique they used that no one even noticed or cared about. It wasnt a main part of the game and the case doesnt say anything. Some idiot is just trying to make headlines and polygon is actually writing about it.

Kavorklestein1204d ago

It's killzone. Everyone should be begging for their money back... lol I'm kidding BTW but I do think if this goes through, that 5,000,000 is a bit extreme

Exari1204d ago

polygon finding something bad to say about sony. im not surprised

Gh05t1204d ago

I hate polygon as much as the next person but for them not to run a story like this would be irresponsible as a news outlet. Bash them for all the other news they overlook but not for what they do report unless its reported with bias.

Blaze9291204d ago

sad part about this lawsuit is Sony will likely have to settle. Based off a simple technicality - that's all you need in the court of law in MERICA.

http://blog.eu.playstation....

"Then there’s the competitive multiplayer mode which, like the game’s campaign, runs at native 1080p and 60 fps."

the fact that to this day, Sony hasn't changed that seems funny. And that's all the lawers will need to point to as well as DF's article to win - a technicality.

rdgneoz31204d ago

"And that's all the lawers will need to point to as well as DF's article to win - a technicality."

Yet the back of the box does not say native 1080p... Articles are wrong every day, and not every one goes back an corrects it's mistakes. And that article was not written by a member of the GG team.

From BurtallyHonest's post:

http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/ent...

Notice "1080p HD video output"? Doesn't say native. That one word left out will win them the lawsuit.

extermin8or1204d ago

They won't have to settle because native means the frame isn't upscale and Killzone frames aren't upscale. They simply are using an algorithm to generate pixels based on where that pixel was in the previous 2 frames and it's motion. It requires less of the hardwares power todo this than to regenerate all the pixels every frame. Despite this the image outputted isn't stretched andni a 1080p display will be 1080p and wont require any upscaling.

ziggurcat1204d ago

Like all of the other frivolous lawsuits filed against Sony in the last 4 years, this one will also fall flat on its face.

The last I read about this idiotic suit, the complainants were saying that killzone was 720p... Which it is most certainly not. That alone would be enough to throw the suit out of the window.

Ju1204d ago

It still IS native 1080. It carries all the information of a 1080 frame each frame. How this is done is something for engineers to define. But from a pure visual standpoint, you get the full information of a 1080p frame - each frame. Now if some of those pixels are actually 16ms late is irrelevant in that respect. He didn't sue for "half of my pixels are late"...and I am sure he wouldn't (nor would any judge) understand what that means.

kenshiro1001204d ago

Settle for what? These people have no case.

CuddlyREDRUM1204d ago

The game doesn't run at 1080p, that is more than a technicality.

gootimes1204d ago

^
The game absolutely runs at 1080p, that is a fact.

Single player 1080p NATIVE, mp 1080p temporal.

- doesn't claim "native" 1080p on game jacket.

- "game experience may change online"

Just because there was a slip up on the website doesn't mean the game jacket advertised it as such. People mess up on blogs all the time. Look at Aaron Greenberg saying all Xbox One games are 1080p. Should MS be sued?

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 1204d ago
avengers19781204d ago

Well here's a waste of people's money... They are never going to win this lawsuit... KZSF runs 1080p in single player, and the MP runs 60 fps. It's a good game, looks great, and plays great. Once they put a copy in a PS4 and show the judge the game he/she is going to say sorry case closed.

Death1204d ago

"Temporal reprojection" is upscaling. The problem here and the confusion is from people's perception of upscaling. Early upscalers simply stretched the image to fit the screen. The upscalers we have today are filling pixels exactly how GG explains their technique. Why Sony feels the need to rename upscaling is beyond me. It is very deceptive and not necessary. The only ones that care about native vs upscaled graphics are the Playstation fans that have been told it makes a difference.

rdgneoz31204d ago

"The only ones that care about native vs upscaled graphics are the Playstation fans that have been told it makes a difference."

I guess you missed all the PS360 DF / graphics / AA comparison articles last gen. The ones with the 360 bragging for the first half of the gen when not many knew how to work with the cell and the 360 was easier to work with.

Now the shoe is on the other foot and suddenly graphics do not matter. Especially when at launch (and for several months after) you pay $100 more for lesser graphics.

extermin8or1204d ago

@death no temporal reprojection isn't upscaling the difference is an upscale frame/image is generated in a lower resolution THEN stretched. If you are using temporal reprejection the frame is only ever generated in 1080p the adding of pixels is done prior to this and is based on past frames. Whereas in other upscaling the frame is upscale by adding in pixels post generation. So if say there's a pixel of value 2 and a pixel next to one another generally a pixel value of 3 being added Inbetween the two will be given a value somewhere between the two. (really crude example. Plus the box and posters etc never said 1080p native they justify 1080p. Let's be honest this guy suing is some sad act xbox fancy who likely doesn't even own a ps4 let alone Killzone.y the

Death1204d ago

When Sony kept downplaying the Xbox 360 saying it wasn't "TrueHD", they brought it on themselves. "HD starts when we say it starts" ring a bell? You didn't see Microsoft or it's fans claiming the 360 was going to dominate, it was the other side. When the PS3 released and didn't live up to expectations what did you think would happen? Yes, people did point and laugh when the "super computer" turned out to be a game console after all.

ziggurcat1204d ago (Edited 1204d ago )

@death:

No, it's not upscaling. You've completely missed the mark on what temporal projection does, not do you really get what upscaling means. Upscaling is taking a smaller image, and artificially enlarging it while temporal projection is very similar to an interlaced resolution in that it very quickly alternates between even/odd lines of pixels. It's still a full 1920 x 1080 image being displayed, it's not taking 960 x 1080, and stretching it to fit 1920 x 1080.

nitus101204d ago

@Death

I think it is best for people who are interested in "Temporal reprojection" to go to the Killzone web site, which is: https://www.killzone.com/en...

Personally I think this litigation is stupid but you can never tell when the lawyers on both sides bring out their arguments in "legalese" (only understood by the law profession not Professional Engineers). Nobody wins except the lawyers.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 1204d ago
lelo1204d ago

Contrary to moron fanboy belief, every company lies to sell a few more copies of their games... Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo.

legionsoup1204d ago

Why is someone suing Sony for Killzone, but no one sued Sega for Aliens Colonial Marines?

Blaze9291204d ago

if you read, you'd see that the ones behind the suit are also the ones behind the Aliens litigation.

Spenok1204d ago

My god people are retarded. Are you kidding me? People are some damn entitled little brats to think they deserve ANY money after something like this.

This is ridiculous and it's stories like this that makes me sad to call myself a gamer.

+ Show (11) more repliesLast reply 1203d ago
fonger081205d ago

Wow, if the plaintiff is really just trying to make a name for his/her self, there are plenty of other non-wasting time/tax payer money to go about this.. got love of our American judicial system... sigh.

wsoutlaw871204d ago

tax payer money? Im sure both sides would pay a good share of court fees. But, it will never get that far.

DVS-Zev1205d ago

This is so hilariously sad.The army of lawyers on Sony's legal retainer will annihilate this desperate cash grab attempt.

xer01205d ago Show
Yahdaree1205d ago

I hope so DVS. Besides shouldn't we be getting money from BF4 first for a game that honestly did not even work.

JeffGUNZ1204d ago

The law firm would not take the case if they didn't think they had any grounds to proceed. Obviously this law firm believes Sony committed the list of offenses to file the claim.

Majin-vegeta1205d ago (Edited 1205d ago )

Wait the guy wants $5,000,000??Lol he wont get squat.

The guy maybe could have had a case when the game released but almost a year later and he barely brings it up.He has no chance.

I hope Sony sues this clown in return for the amount he wants.For making them waste their time.