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PS4 And Xbox One Feature Modern CPUs, Having Faster Memory Isn't Useful If The Processor Stalls

"Both machines feature very modern processor designs which include features such as out of order execution," says David Miles, CTO of BabelFlux.

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mochachino1175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

I'd say the CPU is the least impressive thing about the new consoles.

fullmetal2971175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

Yeah, I agree. A processor clocked at under 2.0 Ghz is quite underwhelming. Even modern laptop Intel processors has some kind of boast core clock that can reach up to 3.0 Ghz during load.

Grap1175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

The speed doesn't mean anything i have seen a lot of cpu preform better with half of speed than a cpu with 3.0 Ghz. the current gen console yes they have low speed but they also have 8 core which is far better than any cpu with 3.0 Ghz with less core(if the developer wouldn't be lazy and not Distribute the task between the cores) keep in mind we are talking about laptops here not pc cause we all know modern intel cpu crush console cpu single handed.

XBLSkull1175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

I'm sorry but processor speed does mean something, ask anyone who knows anything about processing power lol. Why do you think PC's get overclocked, if it didn't mean anything people wouldn't bother. This is something where updates to Sony's API/DX12/Cloud Power should really show their benefits.

andrewer1175d ago

@Grap 0.1GHz equals 100.000.000 more operations per second. In what universe this means nothing?

gapecanpie1175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

@Grap

You clearly know nothing of cpu and how it works.... a 4 core I7 (even some I5) blows away 8 core AMD prorssor with a higher clock....

Those CPUs in the X1 and PS4 are low powered tablet processors and they suck and there's no way around that!!!! If Sony would have went a updated Cell processor most all the ps4 game would be 60fps no problem but Sony and MS wanted something cheap and went the Nintendo route this gen.

I'm surprised with how many people actually agreed with you but then again this is N4G.....

the-pi-guy1175d ago

A CPU's clock isn't the end all of performance.
Clockrate, IPC, number of cores together give a pretty good idea about performance. A Pentium 3 at 1.0 Ghz will beat a 1.3 Ghz Pentium 4. Much higher clock rate, newer CPU and it loses.
The CPU on the new consoles are very disappointing, but they should be good enough. The GPU is where most of the stuff matters. The GPU's are decent on both consoles. And can actually overcome some of the shortcomings of the CPU due to their design.

SilentNegotiator1175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

A desktop that I recycled for a friend from about the turn of the century or so had a 3.0Ghz....the speed on its own, without context, doesn't mean much.

tommygunzII1175d ago

I had a P4 processor 10 years ago that had 3.2 ghz and it probably wouldn't load this page if it had to xD

andrewer1175d ago

@tommygunzII then probably there would be something wrong with your internet

CryofSilence1174d ago

Laptops usually have 2-4 cores. The new consoles have 8.

Hairy Chewie1174d ago (Edited 1174d ago )

Higher GHz is really important for computers, not so much to consoles that have multiple cores. PC programs generally only run on one or two cores, so the higher the GHz the quicker it runs. Console games are designed to utilise multiple cores, so even though the GHz is lower, you can still push through a lot of information. The benefit of lower GHz is less heat, which is pretty important for a console sitting in a cabinet. That's my understanding anyway.

Gamer19821174d ago

Haha people who know nothing about processors lineup and comment.. Clock speed is nothing more than a number these days for over clockers to gauge how much extra juice they are getting. For proof just look at intel vs AMD you will find a 3.2ghz dual core intel out perform a 4.1ghz AMD 6 core CPU because of better architecture..
http://www.tomshardware.com...

Dehnus1174d ago

Erm, you do know that GHZ is just a clockspeed and not the actual speed of the CPU right?

That said the CPU"s in these consoles still are not something I would write home favourably about. But ghz is really not the only thing that matters.

Bajablast1171174d ago

@grap

an i3 4350+ series dual core blows away 8 core amds in gaming because of hyperthreading 4 additional threads.

most amd 8 cores are not even "8" cores they are 4 cores with 2 integer units on each module.

badz1491174d ago

Seriously, this article is such a waste of the internet space! It's like saying your Ferrari is useless if don't have fuel! Duhh...

the-pi-guy1174d ago

@Baja
Those i3s have 2 cores + hyperthread = 4 threads.
Most games are actually only made with one core in mind for whatever reason. The IPC is much higher on intel CPU's so even a dual core i3 will beat a quad core FX for most games. BattleField 4 is made with more cores in mind so the FX-8350 will actually get close to the higher end i7s.

+ Show (12) more repliesLast reply 1174d ago
Hanuman1175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

PS4's GPU alone, can do some amazing sh*t in 1080p. All it needs is a cpu that can keep up, and it has one...Case closed...

Future_20151175d ago

The PS4 GPU is an under clocked 7970 custom chip nothing that special or expensive to make

lifeisgamesok1175d ago

Actually the CPU in the PS4 is its biggest bottleneck

gapecanpie1175d ago

7970 is so old and outdated and its not even a full 7970.... it been heavily downgraded and under clocked.

hollabox1175d ago

@Future_2015
PS4 GPU is actually closer to AMD's 7850 not an 7970. Looking at the 7850 and 7870 specs, if Sony did not commission AMD to build their GPU, I can see the PS4 GPU being labeled as a 7860. It latterly splits the 7850 and 7870 specs but with more ram and memory bandwidth.

andrewer1175d ago

I recently bought a GTX 770 and my Phenom II 6 cores 3.2GHz wasn't able to keep up. Although once I OC'ed it to 3.9GHz things started to go smoothly. It's not that easy to keep up with a GPU.

dantesparda1174d ago

@life

So if the CPU is the PS4's biggest bottleneck, then it is also a bottleneck on the X1. They are the same exact CPU afterall and if you fanboys honestly think that a scant 150Mhz speed boost somehow makes it magically much better than the PS4's CPU then you are sadly mistaken and the PS4 has already been shown to perform better on certain benchmarks and the games having a better framerate on average also point to/are a testament to a better performing CPU. So the MS fanboys would do wise to stop spewing that nonsense. Now with all that said. I do agree that the CPU is the PS4 biggest bottleneck. But seriously both systems are really weak and i agree with hollabox, the PS4's GPU is an inbetween the 7850 and 7870, i too would call it a 7860.

christrules00411174d ago

The CPU and GPU work together.

The CPU is responsible for calculating damage done, calculating damage taken, spawning AI, telling AI to have x conversation, telling AI to do death animation # when it's health reaches 0, it passes all of that info over to the GPU and the GPU draws it which then outputs to your screen.

It's like in Watch Dogs when your driving fast and vehicles appear in front of you. The CPU is having a hard time keeping up spawning cars.

Of coarse since the consoles are an APU design they can offload tasks from the CPU to the GPU. However the more they transfer over the less they will have for the graphical fidelity. For the best results it's best if they both could handle there own jobs.

thehobbyist1174d ago

PS4 has an APU not GPU or CPU.

ramiuk11174d ago

the thing is the consoel is optimised to run games and is coded that way which is why the lower power makes it look better than the pc equiv imo.

the pc brigade will always go on about how a pc is this and that,been old news for years.

but they dont get to play uncharted,god of war,last of us etc

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TheArkatek1174d ago (Edited 1174d ago )

@ gapecanpie

Very true. My quad core i7 3770k blows out the amd 8 core jaguar 😂

BluP1175d ago

I'm pretty sure that the CPUs are weak because devs are meant to utilize the GPU's GPGPU as certain calculations are much more efficient on GPU.

psionicinversion1175d ago

no there weak to save on the cost of the APU. the APU costs $130 i think it was which is the most expensive part of the PS4. With the compute units it can help speed up other code that can be offloaded from the CPU but it cant process everything

AndrewLB1175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

BluP- The problem with utilizing General-purpose computing on graphics processing units (GPGPU) is that in a system with a single GPU, running CPU calculations on the GPU reduces the overall graphics processing power since it's doing things other than focusing on rendering and frame-rates.
PC's have the ability to negate that performance hit by having a dedicated graphics card just for GPGPU functionality as seen with nVidia's CUDA and PhysX. Games with lots of PhysX features when played on a single GPU system definitely take a performance hit.

psionicinversion- PS4's APU costs ~$100 while the Xbone's costs $110. It is my understanding the GDDR5 cost more than the APU.

OpenGL1174d ago

Actually it's more related to the fact that console specific like GNM and whatever the Xbx One low-level API is require a lot less CPU overhead than DirectX 11, and Sony and Microsoft expect multi-threading and HSA to mitigate any CPU performance issues.

FanboyKilla1174d ago

@dantesparda lol i like how what he said made you go on a xone hate rant, and then you admit what he is saying is true. lmfao and then you called others fanboy. hilarious! wtf did the first part of your comment have to do with anything? lol fanboy. hey the ps4s cpu blah blah, bbbbbbbut xone. laaaaaame. L

VealParmHero1174d ago

Yea, no one really mentioned anything in favor of one console or the other, and he just sort of went off randomly to attack "fanboys". Really it just sounded like a failed attempt to stick in a little ps famboyism. What a joke

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Ashlen1175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

This article is so inaccurate.

The premise is basically faster memory isn't better because 1% of operations will fail to happen in a timely fashion.

Eonjay1175d ago

The developer is saying out of order calculations is a great CPU feature to have. They are saying that memory bandwidth is great, but you also need a CPU that can handle modern code.

Ashlen1175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

"So having the fastest memory in the world isn’t useful if the processor stalls whenever you have to branch to another part of the code.”

I'm telling you that stalls and faults even in sloppy code are only going to equal 1-2% of the operations.

Eonjay1175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

@Ashlen

Yes, but the comment about memory not being useful is not literal. He is simply saying that its the sum of the systems parts. What is the point of having fast memory if the CPU stalls? He is saying this ISN'T a problem because the CPUs have good branch prediction. Basically, the article is simply saying that everything is working well.

The article is accurate but it is titled in such a way for max clicks.

Dolf0451175d ago

It's off the wall alright. If the memory and architecture isn't fast enough to deliver messages to the processor it doesn't matter how fast the processor is, it will only go as fast as the memory throughput allows.

donthate1175d ago

No, the premise is you have to have a balanced system and I mean that in general on all systems (not just Xbox One).

If you have a fat water pipe, but a tiny outlet, it is kind of useless to have that fat water pipe drain water. This developer is right on the money!

Ironically though, out of order execution is darn old, but for the recently released consoles it is a "new" thing!

It is amazing how far behind consoles really are. What I would love to see is a two concurrent cycle console i.e. we have a low end and a high end and both are supported, and every 2-3 years you introduce a new and high end console and drop (as in optionally support) the lowest end console.

Utalkin2me1175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

@YouAreSalty

What do you mean how far consoles are behind? Consoles are designed for low cost gaming machines. If people wanted the newest tech they would buy or build a PC. Each console gen is a fairly substantial leap in tech. So in terms of last gen consoles to the new gen is fairly good upgrade. But if you wanted the newest tech in your game console, that would just be a PC.

slasaru011175d ago

Still, based on Steam statistics, Xbox and PS4 are way better than the most PCs available with gamers. I understand that high end pc is better but it's also unreachable for the most people

Anonagrog1175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

"This article is so inaccurate."

No, not really.

Memory and data transfer speeds never have been quick enough to feed processors when we talk about raw performance. It's the ever-growing 'processor-memory performance gap' that dictates how we design h/w and s/w for performance.

Unless you have a trivial control flow or predictable access patterns that can benefit from data prefetching there's always going to be the chance of starving the cpu. Out-of-order execution is one way of helping here, so that the processor can jump ahead and load, operate on, or store nearby independent instructions and keep the instruction pipeline and memory bus active whilst we wait for other such stalls nearby to clear up.

An i- or d-cache miss on the highest level cache in a modern cpu can cause pipeline stalls of hundreds of cycles as it waits on a load, or even a store in some cases. In the context of high performance code that's quite a hit to take when you consider how much could be done in that time. OOE helps to mitigate those 'worse cases', and even when data is in local cache because there's still the chance for stalls there. It's a problem that's by far and large the most critical problem to work around if one is trying to write performant code. Even processor cache speeds, as quick as they are in comparison to main memory, aren't quick enough to mitigate issues faced in the last generation of consoles. For example, the fabled 'load-hit-store' occurrence was a massive headache to work with on the in-order execution PowerPC cpus and could cause stalls all over the place if one wasn't careful or even used to looking for the cases for it's occurrence.

I wholeheartedly agree with this developer, as I'm sure most would within the industry.

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kingduqc1175d ago

"PS4 And Xbox One Feature Modern CPUs"

The cpus inside console are slower then a i7 920 released in 2008. Freaking slower then 6 years old Hardware.

psionicinversion1175d ago

thats an understatement, i have an i7 950 and it destroys the console cpu's. The console cpu jaguar is low power tablet cpu, 4+4 config like all 8 core AMD cpu's

donthate1175d ago

Yup!

Too bad, the benefits of PC doesn't outweigh its major cons. Otherwise I would be on it like a hot babe.

R-A-S-01175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

@YouAreSalty

What do you mean? I start up my PC in Steam's Big Picture mode, and use my Dualshock 4 to select my game. I never even have to look at Windows if I don't want to. Add to that the cheaper games, mod support, upgradability and tons of exclusives, and PC starts to look pretty good. And this coming from someone who also owns (and loves) a PS4.

Edit: I don't mean to sound confrontational, I'm just wondering what you feel are the major cons of PC gaming

sinspirit1175d ago

I know I have replied to you before, and I do not wish to have to dig up my past comments to find your old account that clearly lost bubbles because of your ignorant lack of spewing out the same fake information over and over.

It's a laptop CPU. Get over it.

No on cares that PC hardware destroys console hardware. If people want high end hardware then clearly they are going to get a PC. This is common sense that only ignorants latch onto in order to try and justify their gaming PC's. I primarily game on PC but I see benefits in console gaming and still enjoy it.

It doesn't matter what the hardware is. The PS4 gets great results.

imchuckbass1175d ago

I don't understand the disagrees, this is a clear fact.

Though with that said, you could go back even more than 6 years (to the Core2quads etc)... those would still be faster than the CPU's in the next gen consoles

psionicinversion1175d ago

yeah they may do but theyd also be missing newer instruction sets that help make things more efficient and stuff like that but raw power, most likely

Spotie1174d ago

But what does it matter? He got disagrees because nobody likes him, because his comments in console articles constantly lack relevance.

ProjectVulcan1175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

Bloomfield was a beast though. I7 920 is at least as fast as an FX 8350 on games which is years newer and has a massive clockspeed advantage.

These console processors are for budgetary reasons and such.

slasaru011175d ago (Edited 1175d ago )

The goals changed. Now they tend to power efficiency and low cost. Usually those mentioned Intel CPU cost twice or thrice as much, and require a kilowatt power supply (considering a good but outdated video card as well). Old PC gaming rigs would also require huge PC case, were extremely noisy and overheated

ProjectVulcan1174d ago (Edited 1174d ago )

The goals never changed in the past years, the most performance for the least power has been a main aim for decades. You are always looking at the server markets and applying your technologies to it, and power consumption/heat has always been a critical factor there.

If anything AMD have been the ones pushing the envelope for what is acceptable power consumption wise in CPUs. Their fastest parts were over 200 watts which is entirely ludicrous and never really been seen before in a consumer part.

I7 920 2.66ghz was simply monstrous and is still good for today's games. It matches an FX8350 @ 4ghz, which is difficult to overclock much beyond 10 percent (4.4ghz).

Whereas a typical i7 920 will overclock 30 percent (3.5ghz), and potentially more on a good air cooler.

These consoles CPUs however are low power consumption and have small cores to keep the costs down, costs for making the silicon and costs for everything else, cooling in the machine, size of the machine, power supply etc

n4rc1175d ago

A CPUs architecture and its functions etc are what would classify them as modern..

Speed isn't everything.. They make cars now that are slower then ones 50 years ago, it doesn't make them any less modern.

WheatBread1175d ago

They're even slower than a sandy bridge i3. They're just low-power laptop apus.

OpenGL1174d ago (Edited 1174d ago )

It also had a TDP of 130W, while the CPU components of the Xbox One and PS4 probably use less than 30W. The entire PS4 uses less than 150Ws under load, and the vast majority of its die consists of the GPU.

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