Silicon Studios' Masaki Kawase talks about the benefits of Microsoft's upcoming graphics API.
It use to be 10x and 40x more powerful. "@skidoo800R Depends on exactly what you are doing with the system. For purely local compute functions closer to 10x + Cloud. — Phil Spencer (@XboxP3) June 18, 2013" "@skidoo800R Cloud gives more, cloud really depends on game. Dedicated servers, async compute etc. gives devs more options. 10x is local. — Phil Spencer (@XboxP3) June 18, 2013" From Phil his self. http://www.vg247.com/2013/0... Now it's worlds. Give me a break. What the cloud is capable of seems to jump around alot, from making the Xbox One 40x more powerful to blowing up a building. What's true, what's not. " Xbox One is technically 40 times more powerful than Xbox 360" http://www.dvice.com/2013-5...
The truth is that microsofts cloud is for more than just gaming. On commercials it's advertised as I way to save files, movies and music for easy access anywhere. All those servers bought were never said to be just for games but just for microsofts cloud. The dedicated servers piece of the cloud is for gaming. All the hype is just marketing bs
I agree its exactly the same as ps network does if you have PS4, PS3, PSV and Experia share all movies, saves, photos (playmemories) and music through cloud its nothing new just Microsoft are advertising and talking it up a lot more.
I use the cloud all the time. Whether its with my computer, PS4 or mobile device. In all those devices its used to store things like documents, saves, photos etc. I doubt that the cloud can be used to render a movie like Avatar in realtime on a console.
@MasterCornholio, I'm not sure even the wildest of MS fanboy is claiming the cloud will render Avatar in real time for XBox players :) We know MS are attempting to utilise it for destruction in Crackdown, that's pretty much the most specific commitment they have made (that shows any real ambition anyway). So Crackdown should be a fair measure of whether or not they can deliver.
Hmmm, so first the fanboys say, cloud "doesn't exist," then they show star mapping and release games with cloud AI. they say "well it can't render anything." MS shows it rendering large scale particle rendering. They say it was "faked" or onpy worked because it was a "a PC" (clearly don't get how internet works...) another dev completely seperate from MS says they can RENDER an entire world. Now we are all the way around to "so what does it do?" .... the answer? AI, world rendering, physics rendering, static texture rendering, LOD and draw rendering, and more. It is kinda silly to deny it when -E3 stars were mapped in real time using the cloud -titanfall calculated all AI in the cloud -a physics based destruction model through cloud. - not to mention all the cloud demos that nvidia has had. It is getting pretty insane to still be denying it's existence and potential capability. @dante That is equivalent to saying I buy the theory of gravity hook line and sinker. The process not only exist it has been used for YEARS, using it in a different capacity does not suddenly make it non-existent. My only question is if they have the ability to do it with the current ROI, it cost a lot to provide on such a mass scale. ONlive and gaikai are 2 great examples of the possibility of data computed on a server and processed locally. With such minimal latency controller input is still tangible. However, my prior job (as a statistical engineer) I used data servers to process algorithms and string data in real time and contructed million (sometimes billions) of data point instantly. (All calculated and rendered locally, not 100% server based) That was 6 years ago on a ~10MB/s. @mixolydian unfortunately the server based services you are referring to are indeed different than what is being presented with the cloud MS is creating. (And not just because one has to do with gaming one doesn't) In the instances you are referring to there is no effect of latency, almost no local processing is being done, (that is the part most people are unsure about sychronisity/latency of local and server data) and both the latency and refresh rate of said data is FAR to slow to put in synchronisity woth another compute unit. That aside, despite those qualms, you are correct in saying that this technology is neither new, nor impossible. I just want to clarify before people start pointing out those descrepencies to further their own agenda.
To everyone on this thread posting "oh peopke said it wasn't possible blah blah blah now look" comments. What people actually said was it was theoretically possible to a point (not quite as exagerated as MS had said) and was not a new idea by any means. However the MAJORITY of people wont have internet at the level required todo anything significant neither will they have anytime soon assuming people ever reach the bandwidth and low latency that would be needed. Wtf is the point in spending time and money on a feature most of your market base will not experience properly anytine soon? There is no point. So and I maintain this about crackdown aswell that a) that demo was nothing a good graphics card can't do and b) anything done anytime soon using the crowd will either be played in a downscaled form by most players because their web cant handle it and they might even be oblivious to this without comparing it directly or it will not be all as impressive as the marketing teams etc have been saying. It's really that simple. Nothing else to it.
'Cloud' isn't just network storage. It's a tag line to simplify it's use to the end user. Im no network engineer but where I work we have 30,000 student +10,000 staff remotely accessing licensed programs, storage, operating systems, unique policies and credentials linked to each and every room within the company. Raid/remote servers mean next to no downtime, only slight disruption. Updates are rolled out when a user isnt accessing their remote desktop. Were just about to roll out a remote access Adobe CC to everyone using a site license... the software will be remotely updated daily direct from Adobe whilst the user isn't using their computer. The computers staff are using have a mere 4gb of local storage... and actually don't contain HDD's... They also use generic integrated graphics cards. The virtual adobe photoshop was already rolled out and works and if you didn't know it can be a very costly program to use when using realtime drawing techniques. I can even access my desktop computer wirelessly through my phone or tablet. Including all relative software. Remote server processing is real and the sooner Dev's learn about networking engineering... the sooner we will see the change it has to offer. p.s to elaborate, before I started working at this company, I would've thought it hype and BS, but I've seen it and seeing is believing.
@mixolydian_id That is a different type of network that you are explaining. Yes it is cloud based but it is different than rendering graphics in real time. Most of the items you stated are directly hosted instead of streamed directly when called upon. What you are stating is what most companies have been doing for years the only difference is that they are using the 'cloud' terminology versus network. So don't get me wrong, I do hope MS does discover a simplistic way of rendering graphics on the fly but I do not think it is currently possible because we do not have a consistent infrastructure to accomplish. If everyone was running on average 30-40 Mbps; no one would complain but that is not the case. I just got finished reading an article where it stated India had one of the slowest averages when it came to internet speeds at 3.5 - 4.5 Mbps. There are some areas in the US where that is the max. Also these little infrastructure setups is one reason why MS wanted to try CBG - Cloud Based Gaming. Azure is setup for many software programmers to to host content for their networked application. This is nothing new but it will be new for gaming. Rendering content (AI, particle effects)/graphics on the fly would be amazing. On-topic: didn't MS state a week or two ago that DX12 would not have a significant impact as most would think. So why is gamingbolt.com still doing articles like this. I could understand explaining what DX12 would do to your middleware but do not make claims or word it where it looks as though they are overstepping MSs statements.
Truth is the number changes because it depends on what time frame from now ur talking about. Since it wont be Up to customers to upgrade hardware, theoretically it could expand more and more as the variables increase (MS server upgrade, land line band with Increases, programming capabilities developing, and more). That would explain alot because if you say 7 years from now what will the power be its a hard thing to peg down. Consider if they do prove its worth and capabilities how much companies from all over the world would want a peice of it. The possibilities would only be limited by a band with and ping. And no one can say what that will be in 5 years. But it wont be less than now. So you do have that constant on ur side. If they can do it with low band with, say half of the world wide average, your looking at alot you can work with there. Then you will start to see breakthroughs from other people outside MS. Its how tech grows. Hard to predict that
Shouldn't claim something as overhyped or marketing when you have no idea yourself. No one knows how powerful MS cloud is, only MS. If they say it can do all these things well then we have to wait and see. The problem with fanboys today is there's no such thing as waiting, only "show me now".
We'll just have to wait and see - Crackdown is being made by Cloudgine . http://www.cloudgine.com/ They seem pretty confident in the tech - but seeing it in action would be better than any PR talk. The demo from the build conference was impressive , https://www.youtube.com/wat... but to what extent this will make it into the final game remains to be seen. If it lets me knock down a few buildings - cool , but if it lets me level the entire city - that'd be amazing.
And if it just totally fails to impress after such specific ambition, that's fairly conclusive proof that the tech is nothing to be excited about right now. If they fail to deliver on it I will join the dismissive crowd, but for now I will remain cautiously optimistic :)
***We're delivering rendering and processing power from the cloud, allowing game creators to define new ground-breaking online gaming mechanics.*** Online gaming mechanics... In a single-player game... IMHO, there's no need to waste online resources of this level on a single-player game. If there's an online mode, fine. But, otherwise... why?
cgoodno, if it can make that single player game better then that is surely reason enough? The more cynical side of me also says "it's perfect DRM", but putting that aside I say if the technology has the potential to make my games better then damn-well tap it, don't hold back just because some people that aren't me might not be connected!
@Volkama: "cgoodno, if it can make that single player game better then that is surely reason enough? " It greatly depends. First, if a game can't stand on its own, is it worth buying? Second, are we now to review games based on whether there's an Internet connection or not? Third, how much of what is expected is reliant on the Internet connection? Will non-Internet connected games have crappy AI? Remove destructible environments? Change the gameplay in some great way that makes it truly different? If not, then what's the point of the cloud as a selling point? Just, so many questions on it. I know it's possible. The question is to what level to make it worth someone's time while not making it affect those without it as well as to not make it a cost that MS can't afford without having to pass it onto the user?
Seriously tho your talking about a very small amount of people thay aren't. Sony said said 95% of there users are online. We didnt have this conversation when games like CoD were made tailored to Live users. Why is this any different? Why should they sacrifice the improvements of tech and enjoyment of millions just to not piss off the maybe 100000 that arent connected? Especially if it can be a scalable to where the non connected users can only do as much as the cpu can handle. It is 2014. There are decent connections offered in every corner of the globe except places without energy supplies. But they wont be playing either. I understand I have had to live without internet at several points in my adult life. But I've had internet for the majority of the past 18 years. If it is a monetary problem for some that is fine. I've been there. But when I didnt have internet I certainly wasnt spending my money on $400 consoles and $60 games. Not to mention the fact that if you feel that gaming is so important to you that you would buy the console without having internet, your most likely buying alot of games because if its that important your spending alot of time and are going to burn through single player campaigns quite quick. So you've got quite a bit of money in the long run. So how many people are like that? And how valuable are their sales in the long run to say nope we can't have improvements because a small minority will feel bad if they only have 2015 graphics and everyone else is a couple years ahead of them. Honestly if those people get pissed and feel everyone should suffer because they afford it, screw em. Those are very selfish aholes and i dont feel bad about saying it. Its funny how people (on the internet) can argue against features (on the internet). Maybe ill call up Ford and tell them they having to stop making fully loaded vehicles because I can only afford 25000 for a new car and and not 35000. How many of you people that are against cloud improvements on single player have Xbox one and Have Live? Dont worry ill check back and count. You all can disagree all tou want I dont care. This is real life! This is how everything works! Time to grow up and stop being so selfish that other people have to suffer because you can't afford internet or live. There will still be perfectly good I offline games for you. Go whine to ur senators and representatives if its that big of deal. /dropmic
Volkama and cgoodno are onto something. I have to admit that since Titanfall I was skeptical of this but after they failed to prove anything it made me stop doubting. Oh MS you sneaky you... They tried DRM the straight way, they got their ass kicked and now the found a way to bring it back not only with no backlash but in a way made their fans crave for it as it very cleverly disguised just like a Trojan Horse as free power-up for the xb1... Titanfall was supposed to reveal the cloud's power, well I didnt see anything not possible even by last gen systems. The new train now is Crackdown which is touted to do that all over again. Ask yourselves, is crappy AI and falling bricks a fair trade off for DRM through the back door?
i thin kthe thing iswith cloud is it should give everyone a better connection online as more local servers. I have a ps4 and although i love it,sony really needs to upgrade its online still.
Sounds like there is some potential to cloud on the horizon. Hopefully it pans out to meet expectations (at least the realistic ones,not the exaggerated ones). So far it hasn't been "seen", but it does allow for some cool AI to one game (which is already being using in it's successor that isn't out yet), and also allows one of the best selling X1 games to exist at all....so at least it's already doing something right. If later it allows for more graphical power, etc that is only good news for gamers. We know that the concept works because of the BUILD demo, true it was a closed stage demo, but it allowed one high end PC (assumingly stronger than any console) to run 16Xs better than it's twin that got bricked. So the tech itself works, the question still relies on getting a solid network for all users, and then what to do about those that don't have it. (I like the idea of looking into using local computers on the same network in your home as backups). Either way, it shows a lot of promise for the future, and MS has been clear the whole time that it wouldn't be an instant thing...so far all the actual experts seem to agree. I hope it works. Being as the advantage of the cloud working is that it adds to the system without too much interference, I'm pretty sure gaming without it will just look like it does today, but using it will make it look even that much better. Side note, it's good to see that Maria 2.0 is finally down to one bubble again.
why so emotional about it? Obviously your with the other camp, so why does this upset you so much?
So what happens if you aren't gaming online? Your graphics and worlds are gimped? What this 'Cloud' can do seems to change every week.
No you play the game as it is built for the One without a connection. The other stuff that the cloud will provide will be stuff that the console can't handle. Your looking at it like they build the game for the one and then take 30% and move it to the cloud. Thats not how its gonna work. Stop with the exaggerations and fear mongering. Your scaring the children with your lies and deceit
The only thing so far I have seen done in games from the cloud is Avatars from Forza. Show us what the cloud can do, because all we have seen so far is talk, besides some closed enviroment demo's. I'll be happy if they can do it, but I am very skeptical in the US anyways, as our infrastructure is poor compared to alot of countries.
Exciting times to be a gamer! Hoping the cloud comes through as planned
Just be sure to pet it in the right place! Because there's nothing worse than getting a lightning strike instead of a downpour of skittles.
And be sure you pat yourself on the back knowing you downplay what others look forward to! *waves*
@slate91 Take it for whatever you want to take it as! But seriously if no one caught on to my comment being a joke to lighten the mood, then seriously who has the problem? I could see if I said something to insight negativity, but I guess no one has seen the commercial about the old lady with the cloud that rains skittles, and the guy touches it and gets stuck by lightning, and she says that it doesn't like to be patted there!?
Still waiting to see the new cloud demo phil promised but i honestly can't wait to see what the talented devs out there can do with the tech.. Really pumped for crackdown, Gears and halo 5 though,I guess 1st party will need to lead the way. Mmorpgs and rts type games I.e halo wars and age of mythology could also be better with this tech.. Funny thing is both games are rumored to already be in development for the console.
Why is it that those who discount the cloud are always first in the article with guns blazing? We get it, you don't believe it...no need to bust in every article trying to convince everybody to have disbelief like you. With or without the cloud i'm currently enjoying my console, and at the moment, that's all that matters. I personally will wait for Halo to come out before believing it or debunking, as that's Microsoft's measuring stick.
So a Dev says what the dx12 can do for their engine etc and arm chair developers still claim it won't do anything? Gotcha
But Phil Spencer the head of Xbox just said that DX12 won't do much for xbox? So who do we believe? Should we not believe Phil Spencer?
Actually he said it wouldn't be a massive change. It still could be a small or large change and thats good enough for me. A dev who was asked about it and is working with directx12 said Phil was referring to development rather than directx12 itself. It will not be that hard to develop for using directx12
I wish we would just see a great example, or better, release a demo for xb1 owners. Proove yourself.
I'm soooo tired of seeing each day a new article on how great directx 12 and esram are and how easy it is to develop on xbox one. What are they trying to prove ?
It's all from devs, not Microsoft. How many articles a day from devs talking about ps4? Probably more. What's your point?
but then from devs there stuggling to reach 1080p. this is my issue at moment. i have a ps4 and keep thinking of getting xbone but with all the BS floating aroundbetwene companies and devs i just cant trust and approve the investment
@ TheCaptainKuchiki "..I'm soooo tired of seeing each day a new article on how great directx 12 and esram" If you are so tired then don't read them, don't comment on them. The solution is simple. You are the one who choose what to read no one is forcing you. There are plenty of other stories/articles in this website.
The Xbone hasn't even been out a year and were already saying what it can't do??? 3 years down the road and we still haven't seen any cloud tech then lets complain! I swear you PS fanboys are so defensive about toward the competition
Well, it's not like it's not being talked about a ton now... If it was something for 3 years down the road, they shouldn't have talked it up so much now. The problem is that it's become a major talking point before it's ever been proven, so it will continue to be discussed until it is proven (or not).
And still it's been less than 8 months.... We didn't see The Last of Us in year one much less month 8. PS fans are putting pressure on the sutuation out of spite it's ridiculous the Xbones been out less than a year! The only ones talking non stop about the cloud are playstation fanboys and girls hell it wasn't so much as mentioned at E3. A whisper here or two there is it really killing you guys that much
***The only ones talking non stop about the cloud are playstation fanboys and girls*** I did not know that Masaki Kawase was a playstation fanboy... ***A whisper here or two there is it really killing you guys that much*** Who? What? You might want to not try and generalize everyone in every way.
I honestly hope they do something very huge with with the cloud just to see how all the people who are doubting it try to downplay it.
i would love it to be succesful as it would be a boost to the tech world in general,its just the infastructure isnt there worldwide,but then again it wouldntbe the first time MS sold something to the world based on showing what it can do in 1 country. i have a ps4 and i need MS to be a success,otherwise sony will get complaicent. if all this BS floating ound doenst get sorted though there is gonna be a new horse in the race imo (nvidia,google or someone else)then MS gonna be up shitcreek and all the new horse has to do it copy sony
So if your internet goes out or gets choppy, what happens to the world?
You pay for good internet.
If good Internet exists in your area, that is. And, isn't gaming all about who has the best Internet to play a single-player game?
@sic_chops "So if your internet goes out or gets choppy, what happens to the world?" The same thing that happens to the world in DESTINY lol...I'm sure if the game is developed using the cloud, it will more than likely be online only.
All I see are clear skies. Where is this overcast again?
This Dev has commented once before on the benefits of DX12 and the cloud rendering on the X1. Great..we get it..it works. I watched the Crackdown demo..pretty cool, when they turned on the cloud compute, it held very steady compared to the one without. Then came the E3 demo which Spencer commented on saying the cloud demo was early work on Crackdown. Alright. Now what I want to see is a WiP demo on it using this tech...I get it that its not at that stage...only when this is shown, then it will be put to rest and people then can comment and see it for themselves. As for always being online..still have not taken my consoles offline since I got them over 8 years ago...so it does not matter to me at all if the game requires online.
I like MS but it's time to put up or shut up when it comes to the cloud. If it has the potential to do what they say then show it so ppl can understand and see it in action.
take it easy. Developers are already using it. Drivatars from Forza is a break thru idea, but I don't personally go for driving games. I have been enjoying Titanfall and the dedicated servers alone separate it from COD's lag fest. It will take time for these guys to make the most use out a new technology... should be a fun journey!
Yeah cawmaster I agree till we see it do something amazing its just pr talk to me. I actually thought the xbox one was going to be stronger than the ps4 with all the post 720 and orbus articles floating around before they launched. Now you see most games running better on ps4 and wasnt there an article stating cod main development was switching to the ps4?
I am calling BULLSHIT on this...until they can SHOW us how much better "The Power of the Cloud" (TM) makes this game, I refuse to believe ANY of the hype. "The Power of the Cloud" (TM) couldn't keep Titanfall's frame rates out of the mid TEENS, or give the AI enough intelligence to outsmart a cockroach, why should we believe this guy?
Because he has more credibility than your or any of the other arm chair N4G developers here
More credibility than Phil Spencer himself when he said that DX12 wouldn't give any significant benefit to the Xbox One? Or are you just going to cherry pick which articles and information you pay attention to?
All this developer said was it would help he didn't say second coming. Once again words are being twisted. Phil sai it would offer a performance boost which matches what this guy is stating so how is Phil's words contradicting these statements oh please do explain????????
As I've said before, the Cloud is not what they're making it out to be. I'm not gonna say it can't be some kind of benefit or help in any way... but it's not going to be rendering entire worlds. It's not gonna be some significant or massive gpu booster. Best it can really do is lower install sizes and help run things more smoothly, but this concept of doing entire worlds in real time or making the system 10x more powerful... no. Not by a long shot.
Reliance on cloud computing is stupid. What happens when the games are old and the system is taken down?
all I been hearing is how xbox zero is gonna get better graphics and games will run better via cloud and all that... ok and by the time they think games look any better the ps4 games will just look better because of the use of more power being unlocked... XBOX SUCKS
Who should I trust, a sony fanboy or http://segmentnext.com/2014...
DX12 will be great!...on PC. The XBO is a terrible system for DX11.
i really hope it powers up the XB1, i think it needs it!