"For those who are unaware, Yebis 2 is a post processing effects middleware developed by Japan based Silicon Studios. The technology has been used in several games like MotoGP 14, Fighter Withing and many more."
Cool facts, and interest how Yebis 2 is most irrelevant on PS4 because it's heavily based on the GPU then unified architecture.
That's what I don't quite understand about this article. If it's based on the GPU then the PS4 clearly has a big advantage because it has a better GPU. @vishmarx: Why should we do that? It makes no sense to suggest something GPU based will run better on a console with a weaker GPU.
Yeah, that does seem like an odd assessment on their part. Especially considering both are using GPU's from the same family.
The article was made in a way to create controversy. The Gamingbolt journalists don't even know what this is about.
oh for gods, once sake lets just all say "xbox is better" together, so we get over with this bs. we have 1 new article suggesting future xbox superiority ,every single day
@vishmarx "we have 1 new article suggesting future xbox superiority ,every single day". That is because it is factually not as powerful of a system and is selling less than the competition. Making articles like this makes the mass majority of people that went with PS4 want to take a look at it because it is flame bait that downplays the PS4, as well as caters to the minority that tries to find any excuse to try and say the system is better than the PS4. The system is good in its own way. If people like it then that is it. They don't have to try and come up with false information to say it is more powerful or something. PS2 was better than XBox for the mass majority but it wasn't as powerful as the first XBox. That doesn't mean the first XBox is a bad system. Both can be good. Stop trying to ignore facts and just live with it and enjoy it.
@vishmarx And all of them are being treated like they diverse as false advertising...
But will it blend
@GribbleGrunger The company's quote is taken completely out of context. PS4 has nothing to do with their quote. Basically, because the process uses the GPU, it can rely on ESram alone and circumvent DDR3 ram because it doesn't need the CPU. Remember the Xbox One CPU doesn't have access to the ESRam directly. If you don't need the CPU, you don't need to worry about UMA on the Xbox One because all you need is ESRam. The title is taken out of context because the UMA on the Xbox One isn't needed. For the PS4, you would need it because it is all that is there. It doesn't mean that the Xbox One has an advantage either, it means that ESRam is the most productive way to do it on that system.
@Eonjay: Fair enough. That headline is very misleading though.
@Gribble There was no point in even mentioning the memory, because the PS4 already support Yebis 2 as well. My guess is that since the eSRAM on the XBO is on the die, they simply used that for the buffer, whereas, on the PS4 there's no real RAM there so they just used the pure processing power of the PS4 to run it leaving them with full access to the memory still for other things like better Anti Aliasing. Read the devs. comment on its own. "The unified memory architecture is less of need for us since everything happens in the GPU.” There's nothing wicked about that, it doesn't become an issue until you read the headline of the article which makes it seem like he's saying the RAM is irrelevant, when he never really said that. He simply said everything is done with the GPU, the XBO has eSRAM on die with it's GPU, the PS4's RAM isn't so there's no need for them to use it.
Um... they did nothing but state the obvious. Any post processing on the image is going to be done to the frame buffer, which is going to be stored in the highest bandwidth area of RAM the system has (if it has split RAM), because frame buffers need that bandwidth. PS4's unified architecture (having CPU and GPU share the same pool of RAM) isn't going to yield improvements if the software runs only on the GPU (there's no need for the CPU and GPU to share data, the CPU isn't being used), but in no way does it imply that there will be any advantage to not having a unified architecture. It simply only uses half of the system. However, it would have the advantage of more RAM to work with, since this middleware is working on post processing effects it is going to need a lot of bandwidth. Having the GPU in PS4 able to access as much of the system's available RAM as the developer chooses, because every bit of it is high bandwidth RAM, means that the system will run better in many cases on PS4. ESRAM is only 32mb, and that space is being shared with other processes. Simple math will tell you that 32mb of high bandwidth RAM vs. several GB's of it will come out in favor of the latter, except for the rare instance where that extra 20-30gb of bandwidth that ESRAM *can potentially* have over PS4's RAM is needed, and that particular process does not need any more than what happens to be left at the time of the 32mb of ESRAM (don't forget, it's a shared pool, other processes take their chunk)... which isn't going to be as often as some here would like to think. @Xbottox, you don't know what the hell you are talking about, quit pretending to. PS4 has 176gbps access to all 8gbs of its RAM, even the 5 that are reserved for games. The other 3gb's are set aside for system functions which rarely access RAM at the same time games are, and when they do they have a minimal impact on overall bandwidth consumption. Quit making yourself look stupid.
typical gamingbolt sh*t
@ XBOTTOX Because that's not how bandwidth utilization works. You can fill 8GB of RAM while only using a small amount of bandwidth if your program isn't using tons of large reads and writes. CPUs usually don't need that sort of memory bandwidth, and I seriously doubt the PS4 or Xbox One OS uses more than 30% of the system memory bandwidth despite using something like 30% of the total memory.
Xbottox Ms themselved said that xbox one typically sits at 130 gb/s. Ps4 ddr5 has no problem maintaining full 180 gb/s since it is unified archetecture. Nice desperate try though.
Why are you guys discussing bandwidth again?!?!? This issue wa worked out months ago. You don't add bandwidth numbers, that was marketing spin. If you're adding them together then you don't know what you're taking about or haven't read up on it enough. Come guys, use the resources available to you... get educated. You guys are arguing something that doesn't need to be argued.
Yeah seems abit odd. @darth72. They are not from the same family. http://www.gamechup.com/ps4... Reading it again, he is basically saying the only way to get decent speed out of it is esram. Does not need to mess about on PS4.
@xbottox Even though it's already been said, I'll repeat it. Bandwidth does not work that way. You don't evenly divide the amount of gbps among each gb of RAM. Every byte of that RAM can be accessed at the rate of 176gbps. That means that even if there is only 2GB of available RAM, you can still access that 2GB at 176gbps, provided that there isn't anything else accessing their RAM at the same time. Then that speed gets divided among the number of tasks using the bandwidth at the same time. Think of it this way... you have an 8 gallon jug. A pipe going into the jug can move a half a gallon per second. It doesn't matter if you only have 4 gallons of water in the jug, you're still going to get that water out at a rate of a half a gallon per second. Now lets imagine within that large pipe, there are a bunch of smaller straws. Each of those straws is a process that is utilizing RAM. Each will be restricted by the size of the main pipe and how many other straws happen to be sharing space with it inside of the pipe. Even though PS4 reserves 3gb for OS usage, much like Xbox One, that doesn't mean that those 3gb's are accessing that data frequently. There are many times when the data isn't being used. Even when it is being used, it only uses the bandwidth it needs (which isn't much for system tasks) and the rest of that 176gbps is available to the rest of the system's processes, like gaming. Xbox One, on the other hand, has one 8 gallon bag, with a tiny drinking straw attached, and another bag that can only hold one cup of water but has a similar sized input/output pipe to PS4's. While that one cup of water and its large pipe may be able to accommodate all the little straws from the individual processes, there is only one cup of water of total storage. You can't store much in there, and if you have more than that cup, you must store the rest of it in the main 8 gallon bag and wait for the water to be able to transfer through that drinking straw. So, to summarize, available bandwidth is not dictated by how many gb's or mb's of RAM there is. It is dictated by how many processes are accessing that RAM at once and how much of the overall bandwidth available each process is consuming. Got it?
yo airheads, i never said xbox is superior . i said theres a daily article suggesting this bs so lets just get it over with and shout it out once so we can send these guys packing
Yes it does post processing uses alot of gpu power the xbox esram is taking some of the load off.
@tokugawa, "typical gamingbolt sh*t" I concur, not only do the ads keep the site from working on my Samsung galaxy s4 many times, but this particular article had 3 "close-able" pop-ups. Religious money ploy with misleading, flame-bait titles. The more I see gaming bolt, the more I down vote.
All this is saying is that Yebis will run the same on PS4 and Xbox One and it won't take advantage of PS4 unified GDDR ram since it's GPU based. Post processing is usually memory bound so it seems like an unconventional approach.
If I'm not mistaken the ESRAM in the box does the rendering. Where as the unifed Arch in the PS4 has to do it. In other words the ESRAM does all the work. The CPU and GPU don't have to worry about it on the box.
@XiSasukeUchiha- thanks for restating the articles title and posting it as a comment. Youve helped me, and likely everyone who comes to this thread, much needed aditional insight.
Not a swipe against PS4.just saying there is not much need for their middle ware on PS4. Title is once again misleading
It is not a swipe at the ps4, but he also isn't saying the middleware isn't useful for the ps4. He was asked directly by gaming bolt about the ESRAM and the amazing 8gb of GDDR RAM on the PS4, because gamingbolt have no clue what they are talking about and just believe these questions will generate click-bait quotes. In this case the guy was asked directly about the advantage if unified memory, but it makes no difference to hi so he explained that. He isn't saying it is a disadvantage though. I wouldn't be surprised if the next question was "what resolution and frame rate does yebis run at on the PS4?". Because gamingbolt.
Okay fine ex box is better with some super magical dream software that boost it's power. There now stop it with these articles seriously
@vishmarx "oh for gods, once sake lets just all say "xbox is better" together, so we get over with this bs. we have 1 new article suggesting future xbox superiority ,every single day" The Astroturfing for Microsoft by Media Means is well known and documented by Using the Media to steer people's perception of a Opponents product and to Bolster one of the Products they make. http://www.pcworld.com/arti... again http://www.pcworld.com/arti... hell even by Microsoft's own Internal Memo's http://techrights.org/wp-co... This is pretty clear why they do it, but the fact that people just say Oh' Well on any of the companies doing such is the reason why no one is really up in arms about it, sony and Nintendo and Google they all employ it, Microsoft just so happens to be very good at it.
That is not what we're looking at here. This article is not talking up the xbox, and it is not talking down the ps4. Really don't see where people are getting that impression from. They were asked if unified memory is useful, they answered that is wasn't really applicable to their middleware as it runs on the gpu only. Not applicable is not the same as bad. Besides which, this article is from gaming bolt. To say MS are influencing them is quite frankly funny. Every "we love the amazing gddr5 memory in the ps4!" indie interview you have read came from gamingbolt's special brand of leading questions.
i am so fedup of all these articles trying to say the xbox1 is as good as the ps4 you can clearly see in the games that the ps4 is way better and esram is a bottleneck 32mb which is very small amount of memory to shove your gfx's ect through. the xbox1 is a good machine but it is not as good as the ps4 end of story live with it. if you got the money buy both otherwise buy ps4 you wont be disappointed.
It's so f-in desperate, isn't it? People just need to face the cold hard specs. One corporation decided to make an all-in-one box that focused on "broad entertainment" rather than the highest end graphics, as quoted: http://www.gengame.net/2013... One corporation went with what the vast majority of developers were comfortable and happy with, and shaped everything about their console around developers, gamers and consumers. You can't just try and throw all your delusional grunt behind a product that is being outperformed left, right and centre to try and say it's better because "we're were the ones who made DirectX". Hardware is hardware. PS4 has significantly better raw specs than the Xbone. Phil Spencer has already clarified that you won't see any great performance increase through DirectX12, as many were led to believe. ESRAM is not a clever engineering design from MS either - it's a partial fix for a bottleneck that is useful in distinct occasions. Anyone trying to level the playing field at this stage is delusional.
Um Lol... I think you need to calm down. They're only plastic objects you shouldn't even be taking this serious because it won't effect your gaming experience. I have numerous colleagues who doesn't even care if the ps4 is a "tad" stronger. The way Sony preached about the ps4's power it seemed like every game is 1080p 60fps. The only one who can actually boast about strength are PC gamers "fact" and I had just upgraded the specs of mines after 5 years. I buy my consoles for the games and ms is bringing both AAA and Indies. Power isn't enough for me I need games
No. Console owners can boast about power just like they did last gen. Don't cry foul because you don't have the upper hand. I've seen you and many like you in secret sauce articles lauding rhetoric so power obviously matters. 900p to 1080p isn't a tad btw. Enjoy your games regardless but cut the morality act.
And I'm getting tired of this extreme skepticism about the real power of the XB1. To this date there is not one game on PS4 that runs 1080p and a smooth 60fps. None of Sony's first party studios have been able to do it. The multiplats that try to pull it off end up running worse on the PS4 (i.e. mudered soul suspect) So many people on this site go 'stronger GPU = stronger console' but that isn't how you accurately messure the strength of closed hardware like a console. I'm not saying the XB1 is more powerful than the PS4, I'm saying its been designed differently and there is good reason for it. The PS4 was designed like a PC with off the shelf parts (unified memory but otherwise, pretty much a PC). Its makes sense that the PS4 would have the edge right off the bat. The devs are familar with it, porting directly from PC with out specific optimization should be easier. The XB1 will require a little more time for the devs to figure out how to push more power out of the XB1. Seriously, the multiplat parity gap is already diminishing more and more ever month, which is all the evidence I need to back up my claims
What a load of tosh. You ignore all the other games that run better to highlight an anomaly. Reach much. Just accept the ps4 is the better hardware for gaming and move on. You only look desperate by trying to convince us of something contrary to the factual evidence. Both will improve or did you think it's only the x1 that could? 1080p 60fps is the bar so obviously the x1 has more room for improvement. That will not be the end. There will also be instances where games may have extra features like the sky in ground zero for example. It seems Sky is the new Grass lol
@yetter as far as i know there is no pc with unified memory at the moment so get your facts right.
Who give a s--t!! Before the age of social media and internet, system power was never an issue from Sega Genesis to SNES, PS to Xbox. It is ridiculous and sad that all the articles with 1080p, amazing graphics, my console is better than yours, are the ones with 500 plus degree and dominate the headlines daily. How about writing pieces about real games or interviewing developers for a change.
N4g.com could of done with your sentiment last gen, especially in all of those digital foundry and lens of truth articles. . . . . . Right
"You ignore all the other games that run better to highlight an anomaly" Take away the launch titles and that list is pretty damn small. And it isn't just Murdered souls suspect. Look at Wolfenstein, Strider and Trials Fusion all of these titles have texture streaming issues on the PS4 that are more noticeable than they are on the XB1. Like I said, the multiplat parity gap is diminishing more and more ever month, for the reasons I stated above. This false narrative of the PS4 being a supercomputer in console form is getting pretty tired.
Ok, Yetter, you are seriously starting to show your true fanboy colors. You are a seriously delusional fanboy, Wolfenstein in no way shape or form, runs better on X1 than on the PS4, it drops to 960x1080 and it does so more often. Where the PS4 only drops to 1760x1080 and has better shadows, FACT! And Trials runs at 1080p vs 900p on the X1 with less texture streaming issues. Nobody is saying that the PS4 is a supercomputer, that is just some delusion stuck in your head. Seriously guy, accept the facts and stop trying to find instances to make yourself feel better.
When you don't have facts on your side, lie The narrative is the ps4 is the most powerful gaming console made. No spin doctoring can ever change that fact....
Everyday same arguments over power. Pathetic, play games ;/
WHAT did anyone actually read the article he's not dissing the ps4 at all he just saying it a simple setup.
If it runs fine on both systems why is there a need to call out one as being irrelevant? ohhhhhhhhhhhhh.... because it's an article meant to bash on another and make the other sound a little bit better. So... trash. Why not write "trashy story to bash sony" in the title instead? That's what you're aiming for.
Eh, it's mainly for clickbait reasons Sensationalism is a more accurate word.
Who ever wrote the title misquoted Masake Kawase. “We started developing Yebis 10 years ago. For each new platform (18 as of today) we ported it to, we have always been keen on extracting highest performance by taking advantages of the specificities of the platforms” Kawase explained. ( “So again for Xbox One, of course we use eSRAM for internal calculation and internal buffers. The unified memory architecture is less of need for us since everything happens in the GPU.”) Kawase was referring to the Xbox One ONLY. Both the PS4 and Xbox One have unified architecture that is AMD based. Kawase was stating how his team was able to make use of the Xbox One's eSRAM as Microsoft intended, as a secondary buffer for processing whatever task developers needed the eSRAM for. Whoever wrote the article was either mistaken or intentionally trying to create a controversy where there isn't one.
I think this will be hot topic ( 1000 degrees ).
For guys who don't care about power and resolution and all that they really are desperate to see performance upgrades to their console. I'm not gonna pretend I know anything about this stuff but I would think the console with the better GPU would be better with this, but hey that's logical and logic hasn't applied to Xbox since the beginning of this gen.
Did you guys forget to remember the eSRAM portion of the article? This is what they are referring to. The PS4 doesn't have any embedded memory. Obviously the extreme read and write speeds of the eSRAM is very beneficial to Yerbis 2. The PS4 has more bandwidth with its GDDR5, but at the cost of latency, which is a factor. The article makes sense.
The author is trying to infer that Kawase is calling the PS4's architecture inferior to that of the Xbox one. Kawase never said that and the PS4's isn't inferior to the Xbox One. The PS4's GPU core is still superior to that of the Xbox One. GDDR5 has the advantage in terms of GPU processing power. The only advantage eSRAM gives to Xbox One is memory bandwidth, nothing more.
That is incorrect, ESRAM has almost 0 latency it is the reason it is so damn expensive and also the reason it was created to act as a cache. Higher bandwidth and no latency is what makes ESRAM cost 20 times more than DDR5. Also GDDR5 plays no role in processing power besides providing a tunnel for the data to travel to the GPU. It has no processing capabilities at all. It is storage/memory.
I never said GDDR5 has processing power. When the PS4's GDDR works with it's GPU core it is capable of processing far more data, faster than the Xbox One, to clarify and support my original statement; "The PS4's GPU core is still superior to that of the Xbox One. GDDR5 has the advantage in terms of GPU processing power." GDDR5 is designed to work with GPU's more efficiently and effectively than DDR3 which is one of the reason's why the PS4 outperforms the Xbox One in the graphics department. http://www.techspot.com/com... The memory is also fundamentally set up specifically for the application it uses: System memory (DDR3) benefits from low latency (tight timings) at the expense of bandwidth, GDDR5's case is the opposite. ("Timings for GDDR5 would seems unbelieveably slow in relation to DDR3, but the speed of VRAM is blazing fast in comparison with desktop RAM- this has resulted from the relative workloads that a CPU and GPU undertake. Latency isn't much of an issue with GPU's since their parallel nature allows them to move to other calculation when latency cycles cause a stall in the current workload/thread. The performance of a graphics card for instance is greatly affected (as a percentage) by altering the internal bandwidth, yet altering the external bandwidth (the PCI-Express bus, say lowering from x16 to x8 or x4 lanes) has a minimal effect. This is because there is a great deal of I/O (textures for examples) that get swapped in and out of VRAM continuously- the nature of a GPU is many parallel computations, whereas a CPU computes in a basically linear way.") Please pay special attention to the section of this paragraph which is in quotes and parentheses. Again, this statement from you, "Also GDDR5 plays no role in processing power besides providing a tunnel for the data to travel to the GPU," is incorrect since GDDR5 is specifically designed to work with GPUs to enhance processing power. GDDR5 Graphics Random Access Memory - "GDDR5 SDRAM is a type of high performance DRAM graphics card memory designed for computer applications requiring high bandwidth" I'm no computer engineer, but I do know what the PS4 can do.
Just wanted to pop in and say that there is absolutely no such thing as "DDR5". Don't know if he made a typo or not, but it doesn't exist. DDR3 does nothing at the expense of anything. It is what it is and does what its suppose. "GDDR5 is DDR3", just with a higher bandwith for process media at the cost of higher latency(which is "never" a good thing in any circumstance). GDDR5 will provide better results for graphics at a large scale while DDR3 provides all around even performance on all all fronts. Though sense all people care about with consoles these days seems to be graphics, the PS4 will have an advantage on that end for the most part. DDR4 is supposed to come out either this year or next year, and it will dwarf them both as it will allow far higher bandwidths at even lower latency with a smaller power draw. e*RAM(doesn't matter if its eD or eS) is all around better than DD/GDD anything. It is simply too expensive to use large amounts of it. The eSRAM in the Xbone can provide some behind the scenes performance benefits over the PS4, but it won't matter much at the end of the day given that GPU isn't quite as strong in the Xbone. Its not going to make Xbone games look better than PS4 games. Carry on.
You are correct and people are getting made over it. I don't know why?
What happens in the GPU stays in the GPU :D
All this coming from the dev that made the fighter within , seriously. That game didnt even sell more than a 100k units and was touted as painful to play. These articles will always come out because xbox fans just cant stand to be losing so very badly in every way, and i cant say i dont blame them i honestly feel bad for them.
they didn't make fighter within. They make middleware
So do I, especially that pauperstation guy. He's clearly mentally ill. I honestly don't think its an act and he's really like that. There is seriously something wrong with this lot.
You got 10agree for a game they didn't make. They are a middle ware company. They make effects like the ones found in Final Fantasy 15, so that means you just slighted a game that running on PS4 hardware. http://venturebeat.com/2013...
Thats just how powerful the fanboyism is around here. Its even sadder that Yetter got disagree slammed for correcting him. Accuracy and facts don't mean a thing. You speak well of Sony and bad of those who don't = you're golden. Facts and accuracy don't matter. At least back in the SEGA vs Nintendo days, people kept facts in their arguments.
ummm.. both system have unified architecture lol. Horrible and confusing article.
lol at the comments...
click bait? Article does not explain why esram assists this gpu heavy middleware.
Works better for CGI and Real time rendering videos "whatever you call it" .This engine had no history on other than just 4 Japanese games but FFXV is the only game i care to see how it performs on both platforms
People need to a) Read articles before commenting. b) At least attempt to understand articles before commenting. This piece doesn't even slightly suggest the X1 is more powerful, in any way. How people got that from it I really don't know. (other than the misleading headline)
wow this article and people are so delusional I'm an xbot to the fullest but wow anyone who try to justify it being more powerful than the ps4 is smoking far to much crack and needs tobe examined it's not possible even when direct x12 is released it won't be this huge 50 percent boost yu bought the weaker console don't let some random internet person make yu feel bad or make yu feel like yu had to defend something yu payed for shit both consoles are great but the ps4 is better straight up
umm what is yebis?