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Managing eSRAM Wasn’t Too Difficult, Not Limiting Due To Guacamelee! Being A Small Game: Dev

Guacamelee! was one of the best games released last year and now DrinkBox Studios will be releasing the Guacamelee: Super Turbo Championship Edition across the PlayStation 4, Xbox One, Xbox 360, and Wii U. This version will be similar to the Gold Edition that was released on the PC with all the DLC, new levels, abilities and boss battles.

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MasterCornholio1258d ago (Edited 1258d ago )

"We *are* using the eSRAM, but because we’re a small game we’re not really limited by it.”

Thats pretty interesting to read. And then he mentions that ESRAM might make AAA games more difficult to make on the Xbox One.

Very interesting indeed. So I guess ESRAM shouldn't be a problem for Indies but studios that make AAA will have a more difficult time with it.

P.S Take into account that AAA studios have more man power than indie studios so they should manage ESRAM better than indies.

Ron_Danger1258d ago

There shouldn't be any esram issues with this game because it's basically a big Flash game. I have it on both the PS3 and Vita and I'd say that if there was an esram issue with it on the XB1, it would be on the devs, not the system.

DoubleM701258d ago

It wasn't really pertaining to their game. They just wanted to here the Devs say the ESRAM is difficult. Read between the lines.

GameNameFame1258d ago

“I can imagine a AAA game using MRTs having some challenges"

Another confirmation of why Esram is limiting.

Add significantly weaker GPU, then we have an issue...

cyhm31121258d ago

it is a small game, might not even need the eSRAM to boost bandwidth. The main ram DDR3 is fast enough.

GUTZnPAPERCUTZ1258d ago

Honestly 68gb sec DDR3 is plenty fast for what is out now... I don't even know a game that would utilize that amount of textures or RAM extensive task that fast!? This whole RAM bandwidth controversy is blown way out of proportion as 68gb sec is PLENTY fast, hence why when ultra PC requirements for games never recommend Bandwidth speed... just 8gb. Me and a friend compared BF4 on his PS4 and my Xbox one for texture loading when you first join a match, needless to say they both took around 5-6 seconds to load the textures in the map!

dantesparda1258d ago

@Gutz

What are you crazy!? 68GB/s of bandwidth is pathetically slow by todays standards. Well at least on the PC it is and if was enough, then why would MS even bother adding in the eSRAM? The ESRAM is what made their inferior APU more expensive than Sony's ($10 more with a weaker GPU). Also, the reason that the textures load in at the same time on the BF4 is because they are loading in from the HDD, which are both more o less the same speed, (both 5400rpm). Put a SSD in there and then see it get cut down.

oSHINSAo1258d ago

Programers are Lazy, they have developed many lines of code that they want to just do/use the same, Xbox one requires new coding to use ESRAM and i think this is the main reason people dont use it, they develop for PC and PS4, so why do the same twice, it requires Work/time, and thats money

Anonagrog1258d ago (Edited 1258d ago )

"Programers are Lazy"

Unless you've invested a lot of time yourself developing well-designed high performance software, which you clearly haven't, I suggest you not weigh in on matters you absolutely know nothing about.

zeuanimals1258d ago (Edited 1258d ago )

Geez, you're asking for devs to give childbirth to put out their games. Squeezing all of the things they wanted to do on their game out of that small 32MB buffer is kind of hard to do, and most likely is impossible to do. 8GB of GDDR5 allows devs a lot of room to be lazy, sure, but it also makes things that weren't possible on 32MB eSRAM/8GB DDR3, possible.

32MB eSRAM = Micromanaging everything, this could lead to problems in later years if we get huge, beautifully detailed open world games with lots of high quality character models on screen with smart AI, destruction, and devs want to have very little loading between locations, buildings, etc. Devs are gonna have to cut things out because a couple GBs worth of data that needs fast RAM aren't going to fit on 32MB of eSRAM.

Gamer19821258d ago

What ?I want to know is how are they releasing this on Xbox? I thought companies couldn't release games on live if they released on other consoles first?

TFJWM1258d ago

It's considered a new game since its Guacamelee: Super Turbo Championship Edition. Thats why it can come out with no issues on Xbox1 and 360

scotmacb1258d ago

It all depends on the studios you give some artists the same tools some will draw a better picture than others

Funantic11258d ago

DX12 is really what's going to help X1. AMD and Nvidia both have praised DX12. People have to remember that MS has had the best programmers in the world working on DX12 for 4 years now. No way could any other console company have the money, team, or time to outdo DX12.

ScottyHoss1258d ago

I'm a bit skeptical that DX12 will make up for a lack of power.

dantesparda1258d ago

@fun

"AMD and Nvidia both have praised DX12."

Oh boy here we go again with this tired a$$ line. Do any of you fanboys realize that both AMD and NV were talking about it on the PC, not the X1? How would NV know how its gonna do on the X1? You people take what people and companies say and twist it into what you's want them to be.

"People have to remember that MS has had the best programmers in the world working on DX12 for 4 years now. No way could any other console company have the money, team, or time to outdo DX12."

More nonsense! So what does Apple have? and how about Google with Android and its own software, and Linux (you do know that Android is based of Linux right?). And you do know that OpenGL is used on MAC OS, Linux, iOS, Android, PS3, PS4, Vita, Wii/U and anything without Windows. Heck, AMD (not even a software company) was able to outperform DX with Mantle. And you think NV dont have amazing software programmers and the list goes on. MS is in no way the best. And you fanboys need to stop this fallacy. If anything, MS has been getting worst and worst lately with all their lastest offerings (Windows 8 anyone?). Even Sony a company not known for great software was able to outperform MSs API's perform.

XiSasukeUchiha1258d ago

EsRam can only handle Indies,and smaller name titles, not full intense, triple AAA's.

If so where's the proof and please an link article too for further proof.

fr0sty1258d ago (Edited 1258d ago )

Many of these indie games could run on PS1... NES even for some of them. of course ESRAM isn't a bottleneck for them.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 1258d ago
Eonjay1258d ago

Guacamelee! is a great game btw.

And yeah, there is nothing wrong with ESRam. It just that the stuff is supper expensive so it comes in very small quantities. Basically means you have 32MB to work with at a time. So if you are a game that can allows you to fit your assets per frame in 32 MBs of memory, you are golden. I think that in the future, people will learn what goes best in ESRam.

MasterCornholio1258d ago (Edited 1258d ago )

In don't mean to be a jerk but Microsoft sacrificed GPU cores to fit the ESRAM on the APU. That is (in my opinion) why the Xbox One is having issues with outputting games at 1080P.

Guacamelee and Mutant Blobs are fantastic games. I highly recommend them and I'm glad that their games are coming to other platforms.

Eonjay1258d ago

I think they should have skipped ESRam and went for 2GB GDDR5. 8GB DDR3 and 2GB GDDR5 would have basically made the system a PC setup.

forcefullpower1258d ago (Edited 1258d ago )

They could have gone with that setup but they could have the had a bottle neck with 2gb gddr5. At least in current format it could last the whole gen where they can adjust how much ram The gpu can use. The other way you suggest could bottleneck them even sooner of teams started using more vram than is ram.

They are in a damned if you do damned of you don't situation fur their initial ram choice of ddr3

fr0sty1258d ago (Edited 1258d ago )

Actually, already have a split memory setup with ESRAM and DDR3, so it wouldn't be much different to put in 2gb of GDDR5, it would be a similar split setup, however the split would give the GPU RAM much more space to work with for about the same bandwidth. GPU could even borrow CPU RAM for some tasks if need be, though DDR3 is too slow for most GPU purposes.

It would have still been a bottleneck compared to PS4's unified memory setup. It's actually the first modern console to use a completely unified RAM setup (360 came close, but still had 10mbEDRAM split with it's main 512mb pool).

incendy351258d ago

I have this on Steam but I haven't gotten around to playing it.. I really need to! As for esram, good to hear it was easy to work with, even though the game might not pushing any extreme graphics.

B1uBurneR1258d ago

It wasn't too difficult meaning it was some what difficult. MS should just stick to software like Sega. Sell the hardware to Google and get out of the gaming industry. The original xbox couldn't play dvd without buying the add on. Who does that? Xbox 360 RROD. X1 ESRAM.. 3 STRIKES YOUR OUT

scotmacb1258d ago

Yes but when the original xbox did play dvds it had a far better picture and it had a hard drive no more mem cards and it was the machine that started live miles ahead of ps2 at the time

B1uBurneR1258d ago

Buy extra for something you've already bought is ludicrous.? Would buy a Blu-ray player then buy the remote later. Would you buy a Blu-ray player the buy the power cord later.? that is the equivalent of what MS does with there system. 10 years later to the Xbox One. It comes with headphone and mic jack, but if I want to use my own I have to go back their headphone jack adapter. Does that make sense to you?

user56695101258d ago

Thank you somebody finally said it. Other indies be acting like they off feat putting they game on consoles. Like they games are that demanding. I love indie game tho, I feel that they be falling for these so called journalist traps to bring up resolution.

MasterCornholio1258d ago

I think Indies complain more about Microsofts policies (parity clause) than the issue with the ESRAM in my opinion.

user56695101258d ago

I'm talking about making games not politics. And I was talking about all indies devs doing console games not just ms or PS. I get what your saying tho. Just rarely see devs being real instead of beat there chest over resolution and frame rate. Journalist be muniplating devs these. They talk more about the res and fps more than the actual game.

DragonKnight1258d ago

@Consoleslateagain: When I read your first comment, all I could think of was this...

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

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