"Microsoft recently revealed DirectX 12, the next iteration of its graphical API, and there been an on-going discussion in the public domain about it. Can it really increase the Xbox One's performance as proclaimed by some developers?"
The armchair developers on this website will still claim that DirectX 12 won't do anything for xbox one.
...And the usual suspects will take this as absolute truth because it's positive news, even though it's from a "no name dev" as some them like to refer to indie devs when they have negative things to say about Microsoft.
Redlynx is a no-name dev?
You do realise Amd, Nvidia and Intel have been a lot more vocal about DX12s benefits than MS. Most of the articles stating the benefits of the api have been from game devs, middle ware devs and the co developers of the api i.e nvidia and amd. E3 is around the corner and i know we will get to see a lot more, i for one am so eager to see what this new api can do. I just saw the new trailer for cod advanced warfighter and according to activision it was running on the xbox one hardware after seeing that i can only imagine how good gears and halo5 will look like on xbx one. People keep downplaying the api andits benefits to console but isnt it funny that the guys who reated the xbx one are the sameguys creatin dx12..do people actually believe it wont add any benefits to the xbox one hardware..MS has been working on it for the past 5years (according to Nvidia), so its not too hard to believe that MS would have made some dx12 considerations while planning the xbox one architecture. If turn 10 could very easily port an existing xbx one game to pc then it means same could be done from pc to xbx one and it also means the api is already in some developers hands.
I did not realize redlynx was a... No name?
@DJustinUNCHAIND I'm not saying they are a no name dev. My point is there are people on this site who discredit opinions of indie devs anytime they have something negative to say about Microsoft/Xbox one, but when they have positive insight it's fact.
It is fact!!!!!¦)
@ FITgamer Dang dude, and it doesn't go both ways?
i work with some pretty big name studios/devs (especially this time of year while they prep for e3) first hand and we all shoot the shit. they are pretty convinced this is going to be a nice boost on the x1. i think i would trust them/
@Fitgamer, so when a developer says something negative about X1, its fact, and something positive, then it must BS, because it is good? Your theory works both ways you know, depending on which side of the fence you like to sit on.... FacT!
I see very few Xbox fans taking this as "absolute truth", maybe georgenoob and a few others. If anything I see mainly cautious optimism, there is a difference.
I would just like to point out that the programmer Sebastian Aaltonen is actually a very GREAT programmer who has done two other tech interviews with Digital Foundry before: http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... He is also a member of the Beyond3D forums and goes by the name of sebbbi. He provides amazing insight to other members about graphics and rendering. I haven't paid too much attention to this DX12 stuff but I'd definitely take sebbbi's word for it if he believes DX12 might be helpful to the XB1 in the future.
its the usual suspects that take this as absolute BS as well... namely people who coincidentally have ps4's or develop for them exclusively. don't be ridiculous. at worst, this will result in a modest boost, at best it will significantly boost performance. either way its a win. either way if you have no interest in the xbox one you shouldn't really care. it doesn't invalidate your own personal preferences.
There is a misinterpretation. I myself have stated that DX12 will improve the XBO but not to the point that some think it would. From everything I read about DX12 it seems it will improve the functionality of the XBOs API usage as well as its throughput. This is very well known mainly because the tool currently in use, DX11, is not providing the results it should; meaning its not letting the XBO perform to how it was design. Though I state that DX12 will offer improvements for the XBO, I also stated that the PS4 already uses this method with OpenGL. So in other words DX12 allows better functionality of the API similar to what is currently being done with OpenGL. Some Xfan's do not want to hear the fact I stated above and just write it off. Most Sony fans know this fact, and if they do not they need to catch up with the times. Though I make this statement that DX12 will provide similar functionality as OpenGL, the separation of the two systems still exist. There is still some things that the PS4 has that the XBO does not and no software can change that. That last statement is why most Sony fans believe that software does not upgrade hardware.
Christoculus^ That's just a fact X1 will improve and PS4 will improve. However X1 won't catch up to PS4 and the upgrade will be marginal and gradual. The fact that you think COD Advance looks great just shows you don't have eye for a game. This is how Ghosts should have looked liked. It looks like an average current gen game. Sure it looks better than certain games like Destiny but it barely looks better than BF4 and Ghosts. For a modern FPS shooter we expect better. Also this is single player visuals. Expect downgrades as usual for the multiplayer.
"We are eagerly waiting to get our hands dirty with DirectX 12. It’s definitely possible that Xbox One will also get a performance boost from a new low-level API.” I know that all you MS fanboys (and there sure are alot of youse here) will vote me down/disagree. But dont any of you realize that he is only saying that he "thinks" its going to make a difference. He doesnt actually know for a fact though. But whatever, f-the facts and instead just thumb me down. But the truth is, he's not saying anything definitive, he's just saying what he thinks it will do. Im not trying to troll, but rather point out the fact.
Dante i remember you from ps3 v 360 debate.....life goes on and as it stands ps4 is a beast for now but open your eyes time and tech changes new scrypt for gaming has opened it's doors. Dont kid yourself new methods will be hitting your screen soon...RAGE on and enjoy. Its the transfer of information and the clarity not the speed as thats when you loose the message!!!!! PS bring back joy and the rest of the debators....
Maybe some of us just like to be optimists about gaming news no matter what system it is on. Esp when those close to it and the few demos they have done all seem to be going in the direction of saying that this could be the real deal. There has been no tests on DX12 that came out and said anything bad about it, and any comment by a dev that is pessimistic about it is usually a low level dev and they admit they have no experience. I don't expect DX12 to change the world, but it looks like it will help the gaming community a ton....how could that not be good news?
Hmmm... that sounds like a $100 bet that they will.
dear god, a year and a half of this argument. smmfh. i do wish they would stop hyping this update until next years e3 or something. i dont know nor does anyone else know exactly what it will do for the x1. this is something that should be on the 'wait and see' list. hows bout some games. hows bout some new features...why are gamers so hype for a update that is there for devs to work with in the first place? will it magically switch the esram or make tha bottle necking problem go away? add shaders? add games? no? dx12 what will you do for x1? because right now some gamers will take anything.... in order to win my purchase i need to see great new games. not hype for updates..i need hype for games. new exclusive ip's. halo is great but its been out there since xbox/ps2 days. i want NEW titles..along with the greats smh. since this dx12 news started sony has dropped so many game announcements hek looking they dropped a new exclusive just yesterday..smh as a gamer id rather have that than this recycled update bs.
@ats Exactly. People here are just hoping and wishing it won't do anything for X1 for some reason. Therefor they spin downplay, troll, convince themselves its not real, its an illusion, lies, lies, all lies whatever it is to dismiss it so they can feel better about themselves. I know its sad but funny to. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying its gonna give it 100x more power nothing like that. But I think its reasonable to say it will give the X1 a much needed efficiency. Which means the specs will RUN better and smoother way better than before.
It will do something for the xbone, but it won't make it the 10x more powerful. Software can be updated and refined throughout the length of the console. However, the one thing that can't change for consoles is the hardware (which is in favor of the PS4). And while DX12 will be coming out in about a year and a half, the competition will be working on fine tuning it's software as well. A company would have to be an idiot to sit on their hands while the competition improves their product.
The thing is. With the power deficit between the PS4 and XboxOne being touted, debated and analyzed for over a year now. You would think that if DX12 was going to make a substantial difference in XboxOne's ability, they would have been shouting from the highest mountains during this past year. It has not. That's why it's such a debate.
@ rdgneoz3 No one said it would be 10x more powerful. It's will boost it, yet some people on this site are getting angry for some reason.
rdgneoz3- of course DX12 isn't going to make the Xbox One 10x more powerful...only the Cloud can do that!
Since ps4 wont use dx12 I hope they mean makes it easier to port from xbox to pc. I want that remedy game on pc!
Glad to see so many devs looking forward to DX12, at least we know it does improve upon the current XB1 API. Can't wait to see the results. @ATS Yup as well as 500 "I'll believe it when I see it" comments, only to later not believe it when they see it. (As proven with the cloud demo) @fitgamer since when is redlynx a "no name" "indie dev" ... ??? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/w...
by the time x1 gets dx12, ps4 will get enough software updates to still stay far ahead.
No magic software is going to compensate for the fact that it has 768 shader processors vs. the PS4's 1152. Sorry, but that's not how things work. Will it make the Xbox better? Probably. Will it be significant? Probably not. Remember that Sony has their own software engineers refining their own tools, and many of the things that DX12 brings to the table, they are already doing with Sony's equivalent. As MS improves their software, Sony will be improving theirs as well. You are just hoping that somehow this will make your preferred console more competitive.
No I'm pointing out that armchair developers like yourself don't know what DirectX 12 will do but you morons will still claim you know everything about it.
dude why you ruin some people dreams?
You assume too much. Here, read this article: http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... Scroll down to the part where they are talking about low level APIs and getting "closer to the metal". The PS4 is ALREADY doing most of what they are trying to do with DirectX 12! It's very dangerous to go around assuming you are smarter than everyone else out there. Eventually, you get called on such arrogance.
Okay so do you work for microsoft and you currently are working with DirectX 12? Can you give me the details about everything it will do because you seem to think you know everything about it.
@ats1992 I know more than you do about the subject.
"Definitely possible xbox one gets performance boost." He might as well have said it's definitely not possible just to cover all his bases. It's definitely possible the sun will exhaust it's nuclear fuel next year and it's curtains for the human race, but much like dx12 improving the xbox, I won't hold my breath. Definitely possible indeed. Talk about a contradiction of terms.
"It's definitely possible the sun will exhaust it's nuclear fuel next year and it's curtains for the human race, but much like dx12 improving the xbox, I won't hold my breath." No, its not possible. Not in the least bit. Clearly you know nothing about nuclear fusion or physics.
I work in the medical field and am very familiar with nuclear fusion, fission, radiation, and just about anything and everything to do with electromagnetism. But go ahead and assume you know something I don't. Any estimation of the amount of hydrogen to helium conversion in the sun is just that, an estimate. Which means we could be wrong. I would begin to explain to you what happens when the sun exhausts it's hydrogen fuel and becomes a red giant, but I would probably be wasting my time. So yes, it is possible, as most things are. Possible but not probable, just like dx12 xbone improvement. See what I did there? Peace.
DX12 is a mad ditch attempt to keep the strangle hold of the market. Thanks to MANTLE being more successful than MS could have foresaw devs are now including it in there games. MANTLE means easy conversion to PS4 since PS4 does not have DX support (since DX owned by MS). Of course these games come with DX support also but converting for 2 systems is harder than 1 so they are pushing DX to be better than Mantle. Right now its all talk from MS and MANTLE is gonna take some beating and as for making Xbox better? I don't think its gonna make it better than PS4 in fact i'm pretty sure it wont however it will hopefully improve Xbox quality somewhat. As for conversion of course it will help but only games that use DX12 but you won't see DX12 games around in mass for a good few years.
Let's see what happens.
Finally, an honest assessment of how DX 12 will benefit the Xbox One.
The only HONEST assessment that can be counted on is from the folk who actually develop titles on XONE with DX12 features. All I see is a lot of conjecture from both sides. Folk hailing it as a miracle worker and those, not unlike yourself, willing to bet the farm it'll do nothing or very little. Neither parties have any foundation on which to make claims. So, wait and see. That's what the wise do.
@Convas Exactly its an argument people can make all day and all night long. Arguments I'm gonna start avoiding because its perpetual, until release that is. DX12 doesn't get released for a while. Hey maybe MS will show us another example of DX12 at E3 that would be great. Until then its best to avoid comment sections of future DX12 articles since it usually gets trolled downplayed to death.
In a consoles life span the tools used to develop improve this is not really news it is to be expected. The same will happen with ps4 and wiiu so no gap is going to be bridged it will remain. As a x1 user I am happy things will improve but Lets remain realistic the gap will remain, some gamers need to to stop being insecure and just enjoy the choice they made! I am loving my machines of choice (wiiu, ps4, x1 and vita!)
@convas I wouldn't say neither parties have foundation of to which to make claims but the fact is MS have the backing of AMD, Intel and Nvidia... and a number of dev's who are working with the API Saying such things like "4 generations leap in one" and "doubles gpu performance" On the other side you have people who haven't worked with the API downplaying it... what basis do they have for saying that ? None... I'm not saying its gonna make the Xbox One some mega console but you'd be an idiot to argue it wouldn't benefit in some way shape or form both the gamers, the console and the dev's for that matter... I've always been inclined to think DX12 was always the intended API for Xbox One and Dx11.2+ was a temporary solution. But I don't believe people have foundation to downplay it when it's been backed by big hardware manufacturers like Nvidia, Intel and AMD... But I look forward to see the added benefits of the API. @bennibop yes new tools and engines get developed all the time for games but never in the history of consoles has a console gotten an API upgrade... maybe added improvements... but thats it, so now one know's really how much it could possibly benefit the console...
@HaydenSmith AMD, Intel, Nividia back DX12 because of the its greats benefits to PC not to Xbox One, i mean AMD are working on Mantle which will be of similar benefits to PC Now, i am not saying that DX12 won't improve Xbox One because it clearly will. I mean AMD releases software drivers for my poor graphics card and allows it to play games better or play games it would struggle to play before so i am a believer of the DX12 api. Saying that, the hardware of my crappy graphics card is still my crappy graphics card even though it is improved a little. My laptop will still struggle to play games at higher settings and next gen games will be a no no for it due to the limited hardware of my card, I will have to change it to hit higher settings and play next gen games. Same goes for the Xbox One, the improvement of DX12 to it will be of little significance because the hardware will still limit the performance of games on the Xbox. I just believe people are taking what Microsoft and developers are saying out of context and blowing out the DX12 improvements on the Xbox
@GameDev1 And People downplaying it aren't taking it out of context and blowing that out of proportion saying xbox one will get little to no benefit ? I haven't made any claims just stated the facts... and given my own opinion... You haven't worked directly with Dx12 or created it so you and I have no idea what it will do for Xbox One, plus you cant say it will be of great benefit to PC but little benefit Xbox One... and Xbox One is just specialized PC hardware so there could be a great deal of benefits to it... AMD provided the gpu and cpu of the xbox one you know, so there pretty close to modern day PCs these next gen consoles... Basically what I am saying is DX12 will do for X1 what Opengl 4.4 does for PS4 but probably more efficiently cause it's a newer API... plus DX12 is suppose to bring Tiled Resources to the Console and the PS4 is capable of Partial Resident Textures so both consoles will be able to achieve Tiled Streaming allowing for better use of the hardware and make 1080p @60fps much easier...
@Hayden Smith People downplaying aren't blowing it out of context, they either have knowledge of how api and drivers can improve hardware or are clear fanboys who are afraid the Xbox One might be able to get 1080p 60fps with their games. "You haven't worked directly with Dx12 or created it so you and I have no idea what it will do for Xbox One" That statement seems fanboyish, When a developer says something negative about DX12, that statement comes up, but when a developer says something positive about DX12, you dont care if he has worked on it, he is right yes? I haven't worked with it but i have basic knowledge of how software can improve limited hardware. How can i say it will benefit the PC? Because they are articles i have read with full proof of DX12 improving PC's, which is why i am excited for it. The Xbox One seems to doubtful by some, good by others. Plus obviously PC architecture is more powerful and take more advantage of drivers and api's than consoles, even though modern consoles are close to PC architecture, they are still not as open as PC's. Well what you think OpenGL 4.4 will do for PS4 and DX12 is your own opinion. My opinion is consoles are much more limited with hardware and Software can only take it so far
@GameDev1 Well yeah your entitled to your opinion and I dont downvote or argue with people about their own subjective opinion... But I have basic knowledge of software, drivers and API's too... I'm on a computer science course but I'm not gonna pretend I know how it will benefit Xbox One cause I'm not familiar with the architecture and how it completely works but I think we can both be in a agreeance that an upgrade of an API (from Dx11 to Dx12) is a lot more than just a minor upgrade... But hardware is nothing without a good API... DX12 will make effiecent use of the hardware it's got and yes next gen consoles hardware are limited when you compare them to PC's but with each other is a different story. Everyone has been judging xbox one's hardware capabilities based on its limited API... and deem in incapable of 1080p @60fps... how wud MS expect to last 8-10 yrs with hardware that is incapable ? I am not a fanboy, I am a realist who is just looking at the bigger picture... And my statement isn't fanboyish... cause any developers who have said something negative about DX12 have not actually worked with said API so they have no grounds but when a developer who has worked with it says it will provide xbox with an upgrade that is more to go on that on... just saying... But realistically the xbox one will get an upgrade... how significant I don't know but anyone who says it wont help things for developers and wont give gamers better gamers is just fighting an uphill battle... If MS want to compete with the like of mantle Dx12 will have to be able to live up to its claims... But I do find it funny that articles from second hand sources you believe but a dev who is working on a title on xbox one with dx12 who says it'll double performance of xbox one gpu, a primary source of information, you won't :/ But yeah your entitled to your own opinion, I believe DX12 was the intended API for Xbox One and will make efficient use of the the hardware and provide us with 1080p at 30/60fps... Basically what OpenGl 4.4 is doing for the PS4 and Tiled Streaming software will expand that even further... hope it starts being used in games soon.
xbox one will recieve a performance boost though it isnt as big as everyone is making out to be
At this point no body outside of the people working on or with dx12 know. Everything else is wild speculation, like your comment.
There's only so much software can take you. As a former pc benchmark enthusiast every time a new card came I was on forums with folks with rigs similar to mine asking about performance boosts. Most of the time the boost you get is aboout 25%-ish Mind you this is with new and better hardware. Most I've seen seen software optimized performance go was when AMD came out with their new BF3 drivers that put them above Nvidia. It was about a 10-20fps increse iirc. Every single performance claim, driver wise has been in the neighborhood of 10% fps increase Just Sayin...don't get your hopes up because DX10 hype was supposed to be better optimization which meant more fps but never delivered that way. DX11 was supposed to bring great changes as far as optimization (tessellation) and fps went but same thing they didn't deliver. tessellation puts more of a strain on GPU's in my experience. To the ps4 fanboy camp. It's entirely possible dx12 works as advertised.
And you know this how? Are you a real dev or just an armchair like everyone else?
its impossible for a person to be an armchair didnt you learn anything at school?
That's what I'm loosely thinking, but that's only because MS has trained me to be immediately skeptical of everything they say and their supporters. But I really don't know. I'm gonna take a wait and see approach. It's in everyone's benefit that it improves the xbone though. The more the xbone improves the less developers will be held back having to cater their creative visions. So the PS4 will benefit also if the form of games with bigger scope and more complex engines.
I wonder how many cores the one is using atm?
Developers big and small have access to 6 CPU Cores, 5GB of DDR3 and of course, 32MB of eSRAM on XONE.
Not sure why someone down voted you for asking a question :-/ But above is correct, but they missed an opportunity to say, the Xbox One also due to DX11.* only uses 1 core, for the majority of running code, this is why DX12 is said to be such a huge benefit to the PC & Xbox One. As it will automatically spread out the work load over all cores. (Currently Devs have to do the hard work & code there game to run on other cores, DX12 will do it for them. So no coding required, this is also the same for other feature)
Its definitely possible that a meteor could strike earth tomorrow ending all life, doesnt mean its going to happen!
I was talking to a guy the other day. And hes informed more than me about this stuff. He said Open 4.4 GL is better in lot of ways than directx11. Directx11 is the old way of coding. And x box 1 games suffer because of it. Directx12 is the right driver to optimise the xb1 not directx11
Which isn't far from the truth. The biggest reason why developers are "praising" DX12 is because of just this. They are getting up to speed with what developers have been utilising for some time. Microsoft was behind the curve, not ahead of it.
There are benchmarks out there already, so no need to argue about this http://www.pureoverclock.co... Over double gains to similar DX11 tasks, and even more if they are CPU bound. DX12 is all about improving performance.
On a pc, yeah. Consoles already have programming close to the metal. What dx12 does for pc is emulate how consoles operate. Consoles can get great graphics with lesser hardware because of the way the programming speaks to the hardware. Dx12 is basically a PC announcement that lets PC's have a low level API much like what both consoles ALREADY HAVE! In a PC this lets the software have fewer barriers to the hardware resulting in much better performance for the PC. Sure the xbox1 might get a small increase in performance but since it already currently operates on a low level API you wont see the same performance increase that the pc is getting.
To clarify and make things simple... PC = had no low level API before dx12 and mantle / dx12 and mantle low level API's are new tech for PC's which give a great performance increase. XBOX1/PS4 = already currently have a low level API, the xbox1 is getting an update (dx12) to its already existing low level API which will not yield the same performance increase the PC is getting.
The only game that I am aware that went low level on the X1 so far was Forza, which bypasses some of the DX11 api's and talks directly with the hardware. Almost every X1 game is a PC port that uses DX11 api calls, that is the reality. As stated in the article the only difference in porting from PC "DX12" in the future is that the X1 has unified Memory, which means you can get even more out of it if you take advantage of it. Which also happens to be one of the features of DX12 to flag tasks to run in parallel.
@incendy The API in a console is either low level or its not. Forza did not use some secret magic sauce programming. The xbox1 does currently use a low level API, its a fact. The DX12 is only an update, it may increase performance some but its just not going to be the same as those benchmarks you posted for pc. Im really not trying to bash the xbox1, its a great console with or without dx12. I just want people to understand why dx12 is not going to dramatically boost performance on the xbox1 like it does on the PC. Please understand that DX11 is not the same on Xbox1 as it is on pc. DX11 has built in low level extentions on the xbox1 that are not present on the PC version of DX11.
@weedy, well said. finally someone that knows what he's talking about. how long have you been working with dx12? oh wait...
How many of you actually read the article? "Aaltonen stated that, “Xbox 360 got a big boost from the low-level graphics API. We managed to hit up to 10k draw calls per frame (at 60fps) in Trials Evolution using the low-level Xbox 360 graphics API, as discussed in our earlier interview. We are eagerly waiting to get our hands dirty with DirectX 12. *It’s definitely possible that Xbox One will also get a performance boost from a new low-level API.*" Pay attention to the last sentence. This is an honest assessment of how DX12 will benefit the Xbox One's performance. I don't like Microsoft at all, but this article is honest and fair. There is nothing in it that embellishes the truth at all. All of you need to put down your fanboy masks and get over yourselves.
The folks that downplay DX12 are the same clowns approving articles about DX12 ^_^
To those of you say why is only Microsoft bringing this up now well that's not entirely accurate. Albert Pannello of Microsoft made a statement about directx September 2013 before console launch. Performance: I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating – as I have stated from the beginning – that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance. People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious. I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.