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Amazon takes dig at Microsoft and Xbox One with negative consumer review at their STB reveal event

Online retail giant Amazon has just revealed their Set Top Box, "Amazon Fire TV" at a special event. It has a dedicated GPU, Quad Core processor, 2 GB RAM, supports voice control. but the thing that caught our eyes during Amazon Fire TV announcement event was a slide where the retailer took a dig at Xbox One.

Amazon took a dig a $60 price tag subscribers pay yearly to access their Netflix account. The negative Xbox One review reads: "You cannot access your Netflix account without paying $60 a year Xbox Live subscription fee. Not really sure who is going to pay $60 a year for a service they are already paying for".

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Godmars290910d ago (Edited 910d ago )

Don't see how much of a dig it is when its been the day-one argument for XBL.

Guess its because a major retailer like Amazon is making it rather than "PSfanboys".

In regards to Amazon's actual "console", is it only the innards of a tablet beefed up a bit and specified for gaming.

DeathOfTheFanBoy910d ago

It's a silly comment they made though, I would have thought Amazon were more professional than that. Let's face it, people don't pay $60 a year to watch Netflix, they pay to play online games... everything else is a bonus, this is PURE SPIN.

BX81910d ago

I don't see what the big deal is. It's not like people were waiting for xb1 to watch net Flix.

Godmars290910d ago

The point, which is always missed by XBL defenders, is that whether or not you play online multiplayer you have to pay the $60 to do anything else on XBL. Including use other subscription based services.

Netflix is the exact example of the issue: It was exclusive to the 360 for almost a year, was suppose to be for a full year, but as soon as it became available on the PS3 which doesn't charge anything extra, it became the #1 device for Netflix. With plenty of internet comments about people dumping XBL, going to the PS3, over the Netflix thing.

All Amazon is really doing is announcing to the general consumer, who don't know better about PSN, is that there's a new option over XBL.

vallencer910d ago

@godmars

The point, I think, you're missing is that people who have a Xbox are paying already to play online so it isn't that big of a deal.

Now I do understand where you're coming from but if you're paying to play online then Why's it matter if it's locked behind a pay wall. People don't buy a Xbox one or ps4 to watch netflix. They buy them to play games. If you have netflix and you're buying a console for that then my guess is you'd have enough money to buy Xbox live as well.

Either way it isn't that big of a deal. I pay for Xbox live and yes I have netflix but it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

creatchee910d ago

@Godmars290

"The point, which is always missed by XBL defenders, is that whether or not you play online multiplayer you have to pay the $60 to do anything else on XBL. Including use other subscription based services."

While that is true, can you blame Microsoft? LIVE is a revenue stream for Microsoft and a service that people pay for - primarily to play online game. The naysayers say "I can do it for free on my PC/phone/tablet/other console." I say, "well then do that then."

Nobody is forced to pay money to use LIVE's online media features. They are optional. If you want to use them, buy a Gold account. Otherwise, use your PC. There is no gun held to anybody's head. And if you pay to play online, you get those features too.

The bottom line is that Microsoft chose to put those features behind a paywall for their own reasons. You can either pay to get those features or not pay and get them elsewhere for free - it's your choice.

GodGinrai910d ago

"The point, which is always missed by XBL defenders, is that whether or not you play online multiplayer you have to pay the $60 to do anything else on XBL"

I think you are missing the point that people pay for XBL primarily to play games. Anything else is neither here nor there.

PONTIAC08G8GT910d ago

@god

It could be spun the other way too. Look at all your getting with a Gold subscription..netflix, apps, gaming, free games to keep, etc etc. And with PS online your getting multiplayer and renting games.

So one could argue which is the better value also

thereapersson910d ago

@ creatchee
Yes, but the question is, why? Sony managed to strike a balance between premium content and free content, offering multiplayer advanced features long with free features and free to play games. No paywall needed for most of the function on PlayStation Network. People would mostly like to know why MS thinks it's a good idea to make people pay a second fee for something that they are already subscribing to.

It'd be like if Spotify charged people a monthly fee to just use the software, then charged people again so they could access their music library. Makes no sense...

Trenta27910d ago

I know people who actually just use their Xbox 360 as a Netflix machine. So yes, some people do pay that much just to watch Netflix.

truefan1910d ago (Edited 910d ago )

As an XB1 gamer I have NO problem with the dig. It seems professionalism had gone out the window lately, but no problem with the dig. I have 2 laptops, 2 phones, 1 tablet, and a 70 inch tv all with Netflix. I did not buy an XB1 for Netflix. If someone did they are uninformed. Also i wouldn't advise anyone to buy an XB1 without live. People are really trying to bank on that anti - MSFT band Wagon aren't they. PS Amazon prime is only good for their 2 day shipping, their content sucks.

PS I'll show you how stupid their point is. You need hdmi to hook up the XB1. You can simply hook your laptop to the TV with that same hdmi if its that big of a deal. If you have an XB1, but no laptop your priorities are mixed up. It will be funny when Phil Spencer stops taking the high road and starts firing back.

redwin910d ago

Maybe amazon is upset that MS and DELL have a partnership and they might not need them soon.

MetaReapre910d ago

You know the only reason I clicked on this was to understand what dig was supposed to mean in this title... Then I see a lot of people who are turning a blind eye to the issue that amazon was poking at in their statement. (My bad for being curious I guess)

@Vallencer
I have to agree with Godmars290. A lot of people like myself actually spend more time playing single player games, as multiplayer games I most times reserve for PC play. In which case paying that 60 dollars a year is kinda shitty. Frankly, I only do it with my ps4 (which is 50 dollars a year) because I get free games on my vita, ps3 and ps4 (don't argue the whole "free" terminology, I don't want to hear it), there I find it's great, games I would normally wait for a steam sale to get I'm now getting for free. Plus, looking at all other platforms, they don't lock Netflix or anything else behind a paywall (not even on the ps4)

@Creatchee
Can you blame microsoft? Yes, you can easily blame them for trying to be greedy. Again, the ps4, wii u, or anything else doesn't lock it behind a paywall. Keep that attitude up and they will be locking single player games behind a paywall in addition to the price for the game.

And what a lot of you don't seem to understand is that a lot of people DO NOT get gold for the fact that they don't want to, they see no point to if they only play single player games, I know my roommate never got gold. Still hasn't. He doesn't care to play online with a lot of games, hell he doesn't play many games to begin with. Seriously, the only reason why I haven't complained about paying for online play for the ps4 is because I started getting PS+ before it was even required. When PS+ started offering games that I liked for free and giving discounts for so much, that's when I decided hey this is cool, and I've never thought of cancelling it since. But hey, even now there are people satisfied with the ps4 that's not paying for PS+, because not everything is locked behind a paywall and F2P game are one of those things.

I'm not trying to downplay the XB1 or anything, but you people have to stop being ignorant with these comments. If your an avid gamer, yea it's great to get the gold to play games online, if you don't have a gaming PC and only have a console, yea the XB1 can be a great choice. However, you don't go up to a thief and say I like the way your stealing my wallet from me, so you shouldn't be so warmed up to a company that you think anything they do is acceptable.

creatchee910d ago

@thereapersson

I was trying to leave Sony out of this, but since you bring them up...

Last generation, a consistent question was "PS3 has free online gaming - why do I have to pay to play on an Xbox?" It was valid at the time. Many people (particularly on the Sony side of things) went so far as to say "online gaming SHOULD be free" and "I will never pay to play online." Fair enough.

Fast-forward to this generation, and online gaming is behind a paywall on PS4. However, instead of rage and cries of boycott, the general consensus of the same people who said "online gaming should be free" was that paying for online gaming was okay since it was attached to PS+, which offered other services that they enjoyed and didn't mind paying for (i.e. discounts and unlimited usage of select games for as long as you remain a member).

However, this is the same situation as LIVE. There is a service or services that people choose to pay for, and there are other services that are free elsewhere included in that fee that the buyer may or may not have used as a factor in purchasing. In Xbox's case, it's Netflix, steaming etc. that are the perceived "should be free" features you get when you are paying for online gaming. On PS4, online gaming is the "should be free" feature you get when paying for the select game usage.

It's all perspective, really.

Godmars290910d ago

The point I'm making, the real point, is that while around 6 million - or whatever freaking number it is - XB1's have been sold Amazon now has this new streaming device which just happens to play games which they're going to be smacking in the face of anyone who visits their site. From "hardcore" gamers to soccer moms.

So while this could very well blow XB1, and the PS4, out of the water sales wise, its never going to beat them in performance towards games. And though the paywall quip was just that, the paywall vs non paywall argument is not an equal one. Just something which gamers who pay for XBL refuse to see.

And I am *REALLY* tied of repeating myself...

cell989910d ago

Pure spin in your part for failing to admit that no matter how you spin it, no one should pay $60 annually for something you already paid for. No one else charges for this. Not even my TiVo for crying out loud.

nukeitall910d ago (Edited 910d ago )

@creatchee:

We used to hear it up the wazoo in every thread about how Xbox Live requires you to pay to play online.

Since Sony announced pay to play online, it has been as mum as ever and the argument has now shifted to you have to pay to watch Netflix! Yup the goalpost has moved.

The most damning thing ever though, is when Sony announced it, the vast majority accepted it!!!

I pay for Xbox Live because I like the service, if I wanted free Netflix there are plenty of devices that offers this for a fraction of the cost of Xbox Live one year membership. Now that MS allows more people to share XBL Gold benefits I am even more interested continuing my subscription as long as they keep doing what they are doing now. Unparalleled support of their online network with dedicated servers, tailored UI, ease of use, stability and proper moderation so I don't get people doing drugs stream on the front page like Sony:

http://n4g.com/news/1484808...

The pay to use Netflix complaint is played over too often, and people don't care, because they see value just like people all of a sudden see value in paying for PS+ to play online!

Prime157910d ago (Edited 910d ago )

By a lot of you talking on here who are ok with the pay wall blocking Netflix... using that same logic, your ISP should be able to pay-wall Netflix.

Oh, and net neutrality failing says it's about to happen.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/en...

@vallencer, "The point, I think, you're missing is that people who have a Xbox are paying already to play online so it isn't that big of a deal."

No, not everyone. When I worked at gamestop many people mentioned not playing online. Not to mention my friend who loves his 360 who I just found out only has paid for a few months of live, TOTAL. I was like, "really?"

@createchee,

There are a lot of people that I've seen say, "I wish I would have gone for ps3."

Yes, they aren't usually (but not always) core gamers like parents and older gamers (50+), but they gamed and then didn't realize Netflix would blocked. If Microsoft blocked THEIR services ONLY, then the logic is there.

Honestly, It's consumer's attitude like yours that is allowing companies to shaft us.

Moe-Gunz910d ago (Edited 910d ago )

After Gears 2 came out, that I hated having been a fan of Gears 1, I never paid for Gold on my 360. I resorted back to silver and left it at that since none of the exclusives caught my eye since. It would have been nice to be able to watch Netflix on my machine but they positioned it behind the Gold subscription wall. You shouldn't have to pay a service to watch a service you already pay for.

True most are going to pay for Gold, but that doesn't make it cool to render netflix useless for those who decide Gold isn't for them. How can you defend this? It's a poor decision. Nintendo and Playstation got it right. All Microsoft has to do is update it so it'll work as long as you're connected to the internet. There isn't good arguments for it not being that way, but perfectly logical arguments for it to be accessible with a silver account.

I know people who don't participate in online gaming and use their 360's for other reasons like SP games and media.

creatchee910d ago (Edited 910d ago )

@Prime157

Aside from free-to-plays and subscription games, can you play online multiplayer for free on PS4? No?

Then we're ALL part of the problem.

scott182910d ago

@nukeitall

This has zero to do with Sony. It is about Amazon taking a jab at Microsoft, if you didn't know. And by the way, plenty of people voiced concerns about pay to play online to Sony and on these forums. But it is a logical and acceptable business practice to charge people to play games through your network. I personally would find it ridiculous to put Netflix behind the paywall though, and I don't think I would be ok with it regardless who did it.

PS3and4_HAS_GAMES910d ago

Damm I didn't know xbl charges for everthing! I don't have to subscribe to ps plus to watch netflix. Just one of the many reasons why I made the right choice.

DragonKnight910d ago

LMFAO! Xbox fans are so hilarious. Actually defending a company (Microsoft) to force 3 charges in order to use one service. Microsoft could sell you lake shore property in the Sahara couldn't they?

So let's see, according to Xbox fans who are giving Microsoft a free pass on this, it's perfectly ok that you have to pay your ISP, Netflix, AND Microsoft so that you can watch Netflix on your Xbox One. A console, I might add, that's supposed to be a complete home entertainment device is putting that entertainment behind MULTIPLE pay walls and making accessing that entertainment needlessly expensive.

AND THAT'S OK TO YOU BECAUSE OF ONLINE GAMING?!

You are the people these corporations love the most, the numbers they always fall back on to justify their poor business practices that are at the height of anti-consumerism all come from you.

hellzsupernova910d ago

it is not a bonus if you have already paid for it though, i call scalping the consumer

Copen910d ago

So having to pay to access the other things you ALREADY pay for is a bonus now? LMAO The only spin is coming from YOU. Just because it's locked behind a paywall doesn't give it "bonus" value it's 2014 okay and this kind of stuff SHOULD be called out because it's a poor attempt by Microsoft to add this imaginary value to their service which i might add is declining not getting better. Since i got my xbox one and ps4 ive had to call xbox live customer service 5 times for different issues and one of those issues has yet to be resolved where as i've not had to call Sony for anything thus far. PSN & PS+ has become the de facto premier service overtaking live early on this gen. It costs less and gives more and it's a better overall service to experience.

DigitalRaptor910d ago (Edited 910d ago )

I know you Xbox fans are tired of hearing about it, but it doesn't make the facts any less real. We're also tired of relaying logic and having it ignored or damage controlled by people using the weakest of excuses and trying to shift the focus over to Sony, to justify ANTI-CONSUMER policies.

Can we blame Microsoft? Are you for real, bro?

To access any semblance of INTERNET connectivity on Xbox that you're already paying your ISP for, you HAVE to pay Microsoft again. When it comes to Netflix, you're paying a grand total of 3 times. It doesn't matter if you're not buying your Xbone to watch Netflix - you're actually bending over to let MS take advantage.

You apologists are one of the worst things about this industry, you really are.

Army_of_Darkness910d ago (Edited 910d ago )

@deathofthefanboy- " Let's face it, people don't pay $60 a year to watch Netflix, they pay to play online games... everything else is a bonus, this is PURE SPIN."

Just like what your doing now?? LOL! "Duuuhh,I don't care about netflix anyways cause I only watch that when I'm not playing multiplayer, which is the reason why I pay for XBL! everything else is a BONUS! I'm rewarded with services I already paid for! Yeah baby! that there is my bonus!and I'm cool with that! titanfall, out" ;-)

Keep paying to be allowed to use what you already paid for is like buying a bicycle that you can't ride in your neighborhood unless you pay your bully $60 per year so he won't kick your ass for it. LMFAO!

Pixel_Enemy910d ago

To the people that defend XBlive, Netflix should have never been behind the pay wall and that is what this is about..

DVAcme910d ago

@Godmars290 Exactly the point. People may complain about having to pay for PS+ now with the PS4, but any subscription service independent of the Sony(Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime Instant) is not behind the paywall of PS+ and is accessible from Sony consoles whther you pay for premium or not.

Hell, I'd like to point out that for the price of the XB1, you can get both Amazon's new box AND the PS4.

Prime157910d ago

@creatchee, "Aside from free-to-plays and subscription games, can you play online multiplayer for free on PS4? No?

Then we're ALL part of the problem."

1) You contradict what you said earlier with, "While that is true, can you blame Microsoft? LIVE is a revenue stream for Microsoft and a service that people pay for"

Why? Because you're not using Microsoft's service at that point in time, you're going through Netflix's.

The main point is that, you don't seem to understand, that if the majority of us hadn't voted with our wallets (not preordering) and bi***ed online, then NONE of that stuff would have been optional. Without Live, you'd have had a paperweight. Or, especially, when they decided to shut down thier services (inevitible in business).

2) the majority that voted with our wallets about the XBone (not x1) means that not all of us are the problem. Also, I've been with PS+ since the beginning and have loved the TANGIBLE service it has provided me. The "free" games have rocked and been worth it.

Look, I'm sorry some of you have trouble seeing the difference, maybe it is just a matter of perception as you say. However, you FAILING to see the problem that many of us have with it, is a problem for all of us as consumers, AS NOT ALL SERVICES SHOULD PROFIT OFF OF OTHER SERVICES.

I'm not saying the problem is huge or even a no-sale for me, I'm just saying, acknowledge it as it might be for others.

BattleAxe910d ago

Most casual gamers or people who just don't own consoles would have no idea that you need to pay an Xbox Live subscription in order to watch netflix.

It's a valid point that amazon brings up, and it should help them to promote their system to new customers who wouldn't otherwise know any better.

UltimateMaster910d ago (Edited 910d ago )

@BX81

True, and they probably won't, ever.

Yet, there is still 0 reason why it can't be free.

kreate910d ago

I can agree with creatchee on this statement:

"I can do it for free on my PC/phone/tablet/other console." I say, "well then do that then."

so go ahead and play single player games on x1 and for media, go to ps4 or pc or whatever it is u want to use.

on the other hand, the ppl who bought a x1 probably would complain becuz they want MS to remove that xbox live restriction.

although there is lots of sales for those xbox live cards, the official msrp went from 49.99 to 59.99 despite ppl complaining. which only means ppl just love to pay for that thing.

ever since the games for gold came out, I think xbox live is worth it for the free games at least.

the industry will not move backwards on paying to play online. it'll only get worst. a practice Microsoft has introduced to the mainstream gaming. a move Sony has adopted as well.

I say screw u guys who supported this in the first place.

but oh well.. i'll just try to be happy with the free games. plus games and gold games.

whybag910d ago

Well, people DO pay about $60 a year for Netflix. If they have one of the XBox's, but don't care about playing online, they would have to pay ANOTHER $60, or whatever it is on sale, to watch a service they've already paid for.

Elvis-20910d ago

talking about paying money for gamin come see psplus subscribers. they get several games every month and access to play online on ps4. other apps that are FREE to use and already paid for are not behind a paywall. everything else should not be a bonus, since you already pay for it!!!!! The hell happened to your dignity, you are getting robbed and it is ok with you.

StevenvEekeren909d ago

They are if all they use the Xbox for is watching Netflix. I have two PS3s, one in the sitting room for gaming and one in the bedroom for my wife and kids to watch Netflix using their own PSN account when they go to bed.
If we had Xbox instead of PS3, we'd have to pay for Gold just so they can watch Netflix in bed.

frostypants909d ago

@DeathOfTheFanBoy, so one CAN watch Netflix on their One without paying for Live? Sounds like you're the one spinning.

+ Show (34) more repliesLast reply 909d ago
darthv72910d ago

And to think i just canceled my netflix account because of the lack of content like there used to be. With studios invoking a 28 day clause (at the least) it just isnt worth having netflix anymore. Yet i still pay for xbl because i do still play online multiplayer.

i didnt pay for live to watch netflix. I was a member of both and both worked well together. Now i dont have netflix on any device paywall or not.

Sayburr910d ago

I am thinking seriously about dropping Netflix also, for the same reasons...

Godmars290910d ago

Except this isn't about gamers and Netflix, but rather Netflix users who want to play games.

GodGinrai910d ago

"Except this isn't about gamers and Netflix, but rather Netflix users who want to play games"

And they will make their choice based on what games they want to play, not which console has netflix behind a paywall. either way those users will want to play something online..whether its a COD, madden or NFS or whatever else... Either way they will have to pay a sub to play online. And if they are existing netflix customers, chances are they already have a device from which they watch netflix, already.

Prime157910d ago (Edited 910d ago )

Edited.

Well maybe Netflix isn't quite as good because too many other companies are butthurt by Netflix's profits, and think they should capitalize it.

That pretty much is what is going on with net neutrality. I wouldn't doubt gaming comes next.

By a lot of you talking on here who are ok with the pay wall blocking Netflix... using that same logic, your ISP should be able to pay-wall Netflix, xbl, steam, and psn. Just read the first link, learn something.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/en... http://www.nationaljournal....
http://m.us.wsj.com/article...

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 910d ago
bandit905910d ago

i think everyone is forgetting XBOX LIVE is gaming first!!!!!!ALL those apps come 2nd dont come and think you can join xbox live watch netflix jam up there servers cause you people are to cheap to pay the fee.. which also covers all the great content that people have to WORK to make and MAINTAIN good server quality
people at microsoft dont work for free, everyone has someone at home they need to take care of.

Prime157910d ago (Edited 910d ago )

By a lot of you talking on here who are ok with the pay wall blocking Netflix... using that same logic, your ISP should be able to pay-wall Netflix.

Oh, and net neutrality failing says it's about to happen.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/en... http://www.nationaljournal....
http://m.us.wsj.com/article...

Copen910d ago

Xbox live has been overtaken by PS+ which costs less and provides more and is making XBL look archaic with their outdated polices which further illustrates just how out of touch Microsoft really is with the gaming community. Continuing to stuff things that need their own subscription fee behind their paywall in a poor attempt to justify the value in this day and age when the competitors aren't having to do it is simply shameful you'll defend it but it is shameful.

darren_poolies909d ago

You are the definition of stupid.

ITPython910d ago

This confirms even more that they wanted to buy the xbox division, as they are bitter about the whole thing. Plus looking at the Fire controller, it's clear they had planned to use the xbox controller.

kewlkat007910d ago (Edited 910d ago )

I'm actually in favor of this dig.... Maybe they will change that party of xbl

I buy Xbox for games and to play online.. Everything else is extra but certain apps should not be behind a firewall.

This media box streaming business is getting crowded.

ObiWanaTokie910d ago

you people trying to defend this is pethetic, step back and think about the fact that you CANT watch netflix without paying 60 plus on XB1.

free on all other devices, including the slightly more powerful ps4.

dumb as hell xbot fans, jesus.

gigoran910d ago

I think the term "psfanboys" has become redundant now. What they are and deserve to be called now is "the people that chose the correct system this gaming gen". A long title I know. Just know that when you refer to them as psfanboys this is who you are referring to. Just a little heads up for your future comments.

Godmars290909d ago

More like its an over used term used by people with no valid counterpoints. Whether you own an Xbox or not and bring up a likely valid complaint or question, you're a "PSfanboy". As someone who's most had Playstations I've been called an "Xbot" for doing just that by people with no ability to argue, but I've noticed far more such incidents in the MS camp. Too many incidents of gamers who are overly focused on being fans, deep into want denial belief, who ignore facts and commons sense.

I mean there is nothing really wrong with the Xbox brand, aside from consumer policies, and Sony sure as hell isn't perfect, but no one should be treating much less worshiping or rewarding those companies with fanatical loyalty. Blind devotion. And while it might be a bias conclusion, the Xbox camp come off as being more guilty. Especially because they tend to overly use the fanboy card.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 907d ago
Mikelarry910d ago

Talk about go for the jugular.amazon is not playing with that comment

Excalibur910d ago (Edited 910d ago )

So tiered of some of these articles being held up by one person.

9/10 and it gets stopped.

As far as the article goes, welcome to the wonderful world of advertising, point out you advantages and your competitors faults.

Anon1974910d ago

There is no reason whatsoever to have Netflix behind an additional pay wall. None. Amazon is doing nothing wrong by pointing out this contrast with other Netflix providers.

Illusive_Man910d ago

Who plans on buying a next gen console without a subscription? Plus deals can be found $40 and under for either XB1 or PS4.

Idba910d ago

People who thought that the Xbox one was a TV.and entertainment box, which it basically is

Illusive_Man910d ago

It is what it says it is but those functions are secondary.

frostypants909d ago (Edited 909d ago )

MS sure doesn't market those functions as secondary. And they certainly are factored into the relatively high price tag.

Flamingweazel910d ago

less then half xbox live members had gold, fact, learn some before posting garbage.

vallencer910d ago (Edited 910d ago )

Which also means they probably don't have their system hooked up to the internet anyway. Just because they don't have gold doesn't mean they hooked their system up to the webs.

kurruptor910d ago

A lot of people don't play online. A lot of people don't subscribe to Live or Plus.

So, this applies to them. It isn't that hard to understand.

Prime157910d ago

We slowly watch our rights as consumers leaving us because of ignorance like yours.

Anon1974910d ago

I wouldn't pay to play online. I simply don't play online games and really have no intention to. I'm a single player guy almost exclusively, unless it's couch co-op. I'm also a PSN+ subscriber because I think it's a tremendous value, but if it were just online play and some chat features, no way in hell I'd pay extra for that. I don't care if it's $60, 40 or $5. It's just a waste of money to me. That's just me, but I know plenty of older gamers like me that have no intention of ever gaming online.

Copen910d ago

Last survey concluded that only 40% of xbox 360 users were subscribed to xbox live so you're wrong. There are many people that buy consoles and don't bother with the subscription so this imaginary 100% attach rate for live & xbox just isn't real there are plenty of people that just refuse to pay for one reason or another and there's nothing wrong with that.