Avalanche Details “Number of ROPs” Differences Between Radeon HD7970 and Next-Gen Consoles

While talking about the low number of ROPs (how many pixels we can output per clock), Emil revealed that a Radeon HD7970 can handle a 128bit path format. Next-Gen consoles, though, seem to be limited compared to GPUs similar to the aforementioned one.

[The_Infected]

I'm confused. Is the PS4 better or the Xbox One?

[bicfitness]

Always was, always will be. About 50% better. No secret sauce or pixie dust is gonna change that. Plus the PS4 RAM solution is simply more efficient.

[MelvinTheGreat]

This whole 50% more powerful simply isnt true. The ps4 is clearly the more powerful of the two consoles, but its not 50% more powerful. Its 50% faster.

[GameNameFame]

Actually it IS 50 percent more powerful by the strength of the GPU.

That is measured by how much calculations it can do.

Also, for desperate secret sauce believers out there. PS4 and X1 has same compute units. PS4 just has far more of them.

Same chips. Just more. So stop with desperate secret sauces. If it works on X1, it just works better on PS4.

X1 GPU: 1.18 TF GPU (12 CUs) for games
768 Shaders
48 Texture units
16 ROPS
2 ACE/ 16 queues
PS4 GPU: 1.84TF GPU ( 18 CUs) for games + 56%
1152 Shaders +50%
72 Texture units +50%
32 ROPS + 100%
8 ACE/64 queues +400%

[creatchee]

All of those shaders, texture units, ROPS, and queues, and yet BF4 still only runs at 720p and 900p. Just goes to show you how far behind both consoles are in relation to the PC.

[Sarcasm]

^GameNameFame

Don't bother posting hard facts. They simply will not understand any of that anyways.

The excuses you'll hear will always be:

-SDK Update
-Power of the Cloud
-DX12 will close the gap
-Pixie dust
-Voodoo

The list goes on.

[Prime157]

Creatchee, before getting into gaming media (kotaku, popped my cherry a few years ago), I would have simply understood you. Now it's not so simple...

Console's are just a different breed. That's why a PC gamer (much like yourself and I) can be labeled a Sony or Microsoft fanboy simply by speaking the truth (which you did). However, when you start to involve politics and other random Crap, the console wars and fanboys will always prevail.

So, this is difficult as you won't understand, but you are so right while being wrong in the conversation at hand (which is that ps4 is "50%" -in quotes- more powerful).

....you, as a PC gamer, don't get that most (literally a huge proportion of most) gamers [especially in console wars] are only talking about the console wars.

Thus, when you bring in PC you will be ignored and exiled.

Again, I agree with you, but I don't think you understand.

[BitbyDeath]

@creatchee,

BF4 was a cross-gen launch title. Meaning (1. lastgen held it back on all platforms and 2. it was rushed to meet launch)

BF5 should be 1080p and should look far better, especially considering what we have seen in newly released titles and also what is coming in future.

[BallsEye]

but then ps4 has 172 GB bandwidth while xbox one has 272 GB bandwidth. Then it comes a better audio chip etc etc. But hey, for an average joe like you this probably means nothing and all you care about is that GDDR must be better than DDR3 which in your eyes makes console 50% faster.

[Azzanation]

50% faster not 50% more powerful, its around 30% more powerful not including DX12 and Azure Cloud. ESRAM will close the gap even more. Both GPUs in both consoles are heavily modified so going off shelf specs isn't going to be accurate.

[Flamingweazel]

AZZNATION = Mistexmedia. The power gap is at the HARDWAR level, no DX12, sdk, esram is going to make the gap smaller. As for your X1 has 272 GB bandwidth thats hogwash you simply cannot add up the numbers like that thats not how the hardware works. What an idiot.

[Nekroo91]

@Ballseye ...for the average joe this proabbly means nothing... ahaha you retard you are throwing numbers and you dont even know how it works the 32MB of esram achieve a MAXIMUM PEAK of 200gb/s while the 8gb of DDR3 68gb/s. 32mb can only be used for processing small things like aim, textures,etc and the minimum is 90gb/s so what makes you think you can had the max speed to the ddr3 speed?! Please stop making a fool of yourself

[nightsurge]

@GameNameFame and @Sarcasm

Facts only work when they are accurate. The Xbox One received an 8% GPU allocation increase to games. So that 1.18TF is wrong and should be 1.296TF. That's mistake #1.

Mistake #2 is assuming Sony does not allocate any GPU resources to the OS/camera/UI etc. They have to do this in order for those systems to work. So the PS4 1.84TF number is actually lower than that. We don't know how much lower since Sony and devs haven't revealed that yet.

Third mistake is listing all the individual GPU components and thinking that shows an even bigger performance gap. The TF figure already gives the TOTAL MAXIMUM throughput and is an aggregate of all the GPUs parts/performance.

The actual hardware gap of the two consoles is only ~30%. That is the real 100% grounded, no fanboy nonsense, FACT.

The only reason the differences were so great at launch on multiplat games is because MS was very far from ready with their software development tools and devs could not use the super fast and small ESRAM efficiently.

[jay2]

Yes, PS4's more powerful, Direct x 12, cloud etc won't change that.

[redwin]

Nah han, the cloud and the pixie dust help the Xbox . I believe, I believe.... Ooh, wait I'm in my Titan ....... Oh yeah, I believe. I love my ps4 too, I don't know specs, I just play the games, and I like both systems , but the ps4 is a bit noisier , but not as bad as the 360.

[HaveAsandwich]

yup.

[Milesprowers]

PC

[Mithan]

Yes, but not 50% like the guy below using transistor calculations says.

Difference is much smaller but it's still better. Probably in the real world range of 20% or so, as indicated by most games so far.

[Ju]

Real worls IS 50%. MGS5 pushes 50% more pixels (980k vs 150k), BF4 runs higher res and higher frame rate, AC4 same 1080p vs. 720p and so on.

Subjectively, it might not look like that. But to achieve this, those 50% are required.

[Alan_Shore]

Ok prob best not to use the word better. But ps4 is more powerful but can be bandwidth bound earlier then x1 depending on what solution the x1 is using. Also if the x1 is using 32bit path

But by the looks of it they are using the theoretical peak performances of both systems memory which none will hit.

[kneon]

The PS4 will only become bandwidth bound earlier if they try to do nearly twice as much with the ROPs as on the XB1.

Given the same amount of work for the ROPs the XB1 will hit the wall much earlier, either because it only has 16 ROPs or because of the lower bandwidth.

Whether ROP bound or bandwidth bound, the XB1 will hit the limit sooner.

[Azzanation]

None are better. Both XB1 and PS4 can do the exact same effects with the exact same polygon counts and detail. The best is PC if you want to pay for it. Quality isn't cheap.

[kneon]

And yet the $2000 PC I'm building right now won't run Infamous at all, very strange./s

It doesn't matter how powerful a PC is if it doesn't have the games you want to play.

[Flamingweazel]

Uncharted, GT7, The show, The order, Destiny, LAst of us and on and on are not on PC idiot.

[3-4-5]

On PC, you can "Benchmark" test within most games to see how high settings you can run and it gives you the Frames Per Second as well.

* I'm assuming somebody will figure out a way to make these comparisons with the Xb1/PS4.

* If you maxed everything out, PS4 would run at a higher Frame rate, and would be a smoother game.

^ With certain game types and genres, that makes HUGE difference, with others it won't matter at all.

* We will only see 5-6 dev's actually fully take advantage of the PS4's ram and other stuff.

[jay2]

That's quite an interesting read. Sticking with my PC (which has a 3GB HD7970) and PS4 until Sunset and Quantic break come out for the XBone.

[Pro Racer]

Happy with my dual 3GB 7970s at the moment, might have to get a One if Halo 2 Anniversary has classic MP though.

[Sarcasm]

That's good.

I for one am happy with my GTX 660 for Titanfall and my PS4 for Infamous.

[Prime157]

Inn still rocking the 8800 gtx... suck it!...

Damn, I spend too much on booze. Inn fact I can't remember the last sober moment i browsed n4g...

[Sarcasm]

^I still have an 8800GTS 320mb on my sister's desktop alive and kicking. Not bad for a 7 year old card.

[oldskoolgamer702]

i have both and you can barely tell the difference. i actually prefer xbone because the ps4 controller is terrible

[dcj0524]

You could buy a modded PS4 controller that has different materials.

[zero_gamer]

He mentioned nothing about the materials. For all we know he might not be happy with how the controller is designed, how it is laid out or how it feels in his hands. Material-wise, my DS4 feels more durable than the DS3 and shows no signs of premature wear on any of my analogs, and it's the pack-in controller for my launch PS4. I love my DS4, but the Xbox One controller feels damn good in my hands as well. I'll buy one for my PC when I get around to it, or when I feel the need to do so.

No controller is liked by everyone.

[Prime157]

Exactly, zero_gamer, it's a preference thing.

Just stop, STOP.

The x1 controller is a downgrade from the 360 (TO ME and many others). Placement is terrible.

Again, to me, and many others, the ds4 trumps the x1's placement. It's small... maybe they want kid gamers, but the average gamer is 30-32, so where do your thumbs lie.

That's why mouse and keyboard should be allowed! Oh, you like how I changed the preference thing?

[Sarcasm]

I feel the controller for the Xbox One is a downgrade from the 360. Looser sticks, hard to hit shoulder buttons, and that weird cross texture on the sticks themselves.

[jkendrick]

@ Old

You know you don't have a PS4, stop trolling, you sound just a little butt heart.

[Kingnichendrix]

I dont think he has ever said anything positive about sony haha

[Evilsnuggle]

PS4 32 ROPs double the ROPS of xbone 16 ROPs. This is what I'm talking about. The PS4 has more advance than jant 50% more GPU power . Like 100% more ROPs and 400 % more ACEs PS4 8 xbone 2 the PS4 also has huma or Heterogeneous Systems Architecture. No xbone doesn’t have HUMA because it doesn't have unified memory Because of the Esram. Xbone is designed around kinect not gaming.

MelvinTheGreat
I know you a guy on a game forum know More than game developers and computer engineers. This is what Digital Foundry said I quote " final Xbox One architecture and the proof we need that PlayStation 4's 18 CU graphics core has 50 per cent more raw power than the GPU "
I don't know what you xbone fanBoys don't understand. PS4 has 18 GPU cores and xbone has 12 GPU cores that is 50 % more GPU cores. What you xbone fanBoys Are misinformed is that 50% more powerful doesn't equal 50 % more performance . 50% More power is equal to 28 percent performance gains in a GPU. Again if a car has 50 % more horsepower than another car doesn't mean it's 50% more faster than that another car.

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[LexHazard79]

Lol.....dude, you sure know how to get the best out of that one bubble! To funny!

[Illusive_Man]

So much has been said about the PS4s hardware advantage without a full understanding of the individual platforms. The debate is much more complicated than the GPU and RAM. I don't believe for a second the PS4 is 50% faster and more powerful than Xbox One. The slides here seem to indicate they are comparable but achieve their performances very differently. Disagrees incoming, I'm sure.

[Sevir]

Blind will be blind... Can't believe it but every game release proves it and developers confirm it everyday...

Much has been said about this and everyday I say people can't be so dense as to believe the PS4 isn't 50% more powerful than its closest competitor, yet and still it's it clear someone does!!!

Power of the cloud, secret sause, dual GPU, New Software update, Direct X12... I can't keep up. lol, I'll agree with what you say in reference to the slide, the machines achieve their results in different methods... The caveat here is the results show... PS4 performs better!

[Lord-Nicon]

Microsoft should at least have powered the Xbox One with no less than 512Mb of ESRAM, 32 MB is just not enough

[Asuka]

You can't really do that because it would have been far too expensive to manufacture the modules and MS would have to price the xbone higher than its $499 price tag. The reason memory such as esram and L2 caches are so fast is because it is very small and very expensive to produce. Hence why cpu manufactures incorporate caches on the same dye for its speed. 512mb doesnt sound like a lot in this day and age, but for caching it is enormous and thus expensive

[SourShoes]

Look how much die area it takes to accommodate just 32 MB of ESRAM. http://www.extremetech.com/...

[annus]

512Mb of ESRAM... I can't believe these are the sort of people who criticize hardware.

[Alan_Shore]

I lold

[Alan_Shore]

512mb would of been overkill lol

[Prime157]

128mb from IBM bright similar amounts, about 90% returns, thus, as awesome as esram is, not even 128 is enough.

32mb just makes me laugh.

[scotmacb]

Dude you haven't got a clue stop acting like you do

[Guwapo77]

ROPs are and always be an issue when it comes to 1080p output. I've been saying this since GPU information was released in this article months ago.

http://www.anandtech.com/sh...

If you are still confused, look at this article which goes a lot more in depth. Takes only a few minutes to open your mind.

[Ju]

Ever looked at/played MGS5? No issue what so ever @ 1080p/60fps. At least on the PS4.

[Guwapo77]

I'm not sure if you realized I was talking about the Xbox One here. Secondly, I own MSG5 and what you say is fact.

[MegaDan]

The media, journalists, sellout developers & internet trolls can try to downplay it all they want. PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One & will remain that. Period.

[stumpa]

Unless you are comparing a pc which costs £350 to the ps4 or the Xbox 1 it's immaterial there is no way you could build a new pc for the same price as either console that would give you the same gaming performance

[tudors]

I disagree.

[stumpa]

Fair enough everyone's entitled to their opinion but I maintain the fact you cannot build a pc from scratch = case, power supply , mboard , chip , ram , hd , blu ray drive , graphics card , sound card , cooling fans with the same overall gaming performance as the ps 4 or Xbox one for £350 or less bear in mind you get a control pad with either console which is approx £50 as well

[tudors]

Stumpa I would not be using a bluray drive unless it was to spoil myself, a BR drive serves no purpose to me on a PC, sound cards come built into the MB and are pretty good most of the time, roughly this is what it might cost but it can actually be less.
MB 40-60
GPU 80-110
CPU 85
RAM 60
CDROM 30
HDD 30-80
Case 30-60

Sorry OS £50. So yes it is more but I could easily trim it down to less.

[stumpa]

tudors i listed blu ray drive because i was sort of doing a like for like comparison high end pc will always be more powerful than any console unless the console is just a high end pc in console case but the point i was trying to make was for the cost of £350 - £399 the ps4 and xbone are hard to beat i used to build my own pc's so i know where your coming from (but i got fed up with expensive upgrades every 2 - 3 years ) me and my mates used to call it the arms race lol

[mysteryraz11]

ps4 did pretty well but thats a high end card and the ps4 is 400 altogether I have mine and im happy with it, although they could have made the ps4 and xbox one high end like they did the ps3 and 360 dont why they didnt probally cause of sonys money problems dont why microsoft didnt though they are doing ok

[Qrphe]

Both Xbox systems costs MS 10 billion dollars while it cost Sony over 5 billion to support the PS3. Im sure both companies have learned that decently powered systems are a lot more profitable (PS1, PS2, SNES)

[kingduqc]

Ps4 and xbone are much slower then old gen high end cards... If you take a look back in 2006 ps3 did go head on with the current high end cpu at the time.

Kinda makes you wonder how they are going to handle the gap between pc and console this time around. I mean, beside 4k witch will become mainstream by the end of ps4 lifecycle I feel like the boundaries will be hold back by consoles yet again but in much shorter time. I mean, they already have time to hit 1080p 60fps witch is 2 year short of a decade standard on pc.

Games are much more then resolution and framerate, but even a few weeks back you heard they didn't implement some gameplay aspect due to hardware limitation on ps3, low framerate also harms the gameplay when games like skyrim, dark souls 2 or gta IV had frequent dips sub 20 fps.

The worst offender is that fanboys really want to believe it is not a problem but soon you'll see em pop out. Their CPU is even worst, basically a tablet cpu.

[Qrphe]

They will handle it the same way Sony handled it during thr 6th and 5th gen, by delivering games. People keep on brining up the gap to PCs when this is more or less irrelevant since AAA devs will always target consoles more than anything.

[kingduqc]

They don't target consoles, they get paid to do so. Don't you think every dev would like to release their game on all platform and get more money and more fans behind them?

[Qwagy UK]

This easily outlines the power of the xbox one.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[microgenius]

Again xbots come and say
DX 12 will make Xbone on par with I7 and GTX780!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
get over it PS4 IS the most powerful console in the galaxy!

[OiNioB]

There's not a single person in the comments that says that as of yet...

[bumnut]

You guys argue over specs more than pc gamers!

[Artemidorus]

PC wins. That's all you need to know folks.

[scotmacb]

Yes but you'll pay more and don't start they tryed it on ign with simular priced pcs and they didn't make the grade you have to spend more

[Kingnichendrix]

actually you are wrong http://i.imgur.com/pyrEW0Q....