Terathon Software's Eric Lengyel also talks about updates incoming for the engine.
Another eSRAM complaint? Wow...
This is the same guy who claimed he wasn't porting his engine to the Xbox One since they didn't treat him professionally. From looking at the list of apps using his engine, it's irrelevant.
Ok so his less than unique theory must therefore be irrelevant. Thanks for clearing that one up :D Time will tell ultimately. Devs will adapt and improve as will the tools available. Creative devs will only be able to do so much due to constaints but it'll be interesting to see whats achievable.
So, it was a delight to work with the 360 but it's cumbersome to work with the Xbox one even though the Xbone is more powerful . Mmmmm, ok. It must be true because companies never lie or hold grudges.
"The C4 Engine is a comprehensive suite of robustly implemented game programming tools for the Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, PS4, and PS3 platforms." http://www.terathon.com/ You can see the list of "games" that use the C4 engine here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... Eric Lengyel also previously worked at Naughty Dog, so it's not much of a surprise that he has neglected the Xbox 360 and Xbox One with his C4 engine that isn't used/wanted for console games. http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... It's irrelevant.
@redwin: How powerful a system is has absolutely nothing to do with how easy it is to develop for.
I see certain users are still butthurt that they went PS because Sony provided them with everything that they needed and MS did a terrible job of communicating with them (the difference between a deal being made or not in ANY industry). How dare they not get communicated with by Microsoft! http://n4g.com/news/1465901... And I also see that they're still getting "well said" markings despite way more disagrees. But "N4SonyG", right? This developer is FAAAAAAAAR from being alone on taking issue with eSRAM, so don't waste your energy trying to discredit him.
@Silent, This isn't a developer. Eric created middleware that hasn't been used for any console game. Looking at the list of software applications makes me wonder how any of this has even been approved for N4G since it isn't news and doesn't really seem to relate to gaming unless you think "Utility Vehicle Simulator 2012" and "Bridge! the Construction Game" sound exciting. I don't even know where to begin to "discredit" him since none of his credits listed apply to console gaming. Exactly how upset should Xbox fans be that the creator of the C4 engine which isn't used for any Playstation games isn't interested in porting his unused engine to the Xbox?
Whatever you have to tell yourself, Death.
Silent, If it makes you feel better claiming vaporware exclusivity, more power to you. C4 wasn't used on the PS3 even though it was supported. C4 wasn't used on the Xbox 360 and wasn't supported. The PS4 is a supported platform and no one is using it. Today this guy is claiming he might port it to the Xbox One even though last week he had no intention to do so since they didn't treat him good enough. Clearly he is looking for exposure in hopes someone will take notice and pay to use the C4 engine. If that happens we can revisit the topic and go from there.
its not wow, its par for the course.
Engine screenshots. Not much to say about the engine hopefully we will see some interesting projects for the ps4 in the future. http://www.terathon.com/scr...
Thanks you! This is not Cry Engine or UE4, hell I think the Unity engine looks better. lets use the PS3 accuse and chalk this developer up as being scorned and lazy.
i'm sure DX12,Move Engine, tiled resources ,innovative memory system,cloud will save the day
Damn, that's some sweet sarcasm you got going there! Is it cloud powered?
my AI is 600% improved thanks to the cloud so how dare you to question me,sir ?!
You have to put a "/s " or people won't get it.
Its too ridiculous like all the Microsoft Cloud talk since May 2013 to take seriously. I'm sure everybody gets it. :)
600% uh? So that means it can cover behind walls and flank the enemy now? I'm so sold! Sign me up for some of that fluffy cloud power and 20 years of live! #OMGXBONESOGREATCLOUDFTW /s
The forecast of the cloud was wrong!
lol misterx is that you?
Lazy development I'd say, it's been proven already the ESRAM can hold up to 6GB worth of textures.
i remember last gen when ps3 owner say "Lazy Developer" about very bad port of multiplat gamesfrom xbox360 to ps3 every one and their family jump on his neck but now, it seems ok to call developers "lazy" tables have really turned this gen not only ps4 is more powerful but it also more easy to develop for sony did learn from their mistake last gen but it seems microsoft is doing sony's mistake this gen but for Xbox one owners i hope microsoft fix this for evelopers
The difference is both the 360 and PS3 we're nigh on identical in power terms. XB1 and PS4 are considerably far apart.
Except it ISN'T lazy. Read the articles by the real developers saying that eSRAM is not some sort of futuristic thing and making devs look stupid by saying they have to master it. Its a BOTTLENECK, pure and simple. In comparison, the Cell processor was never a bottleneck Now when talking about PS3 you just might say that devs are lazy when other devs can put out games like Uncharted, God of War, Heavy Rain, Ratchet and Clank, Killzone to name a few, games that have never been matched by any genre on Xbox 360. So yes, lazy devs back then. Microsoft are making Sonys mistake? What, putting a bluray drive in the the thing and making it that developers have to actually use the hard drive whether they like it or not. I just think some people need to learn straight up facts staring at them in the face the last 7 years before saying things.
@andrewsqual all what you said is true and i'm pretty aware of it but it still funny seeing the same people who attacked ps3 owners for that are the ones who call developers now "Lazy" even though it's not really developers fault that Esram is bottleneck don't you agree ?!
@DoesUS You are wrong, the PS3 was also last gen 40% more powerful on the paper as the 360. It's all about DEV tools and money companies must invest.
It dont hold 6gb its able to stream 6gbs worth using tiled resources.
Nope, it stores those textures: " Without going into all the technical details, in short, the benefits of removing these limitations are so impressive that it allows developers to store texture data sizes that previously took up 3GB of RAM in only 16Mb of RAM!"
"Without going into all the technical details" Translated that means that if they told you what's really going on you'd see its bullshit. They aren't magically compressing 3gb of textures into 16mb, they are likely just streaming the data so at any given time it is only using 16mb.
ESRAM can hold about 6 Gbs not gigabytes of tiled textures. Thats about 750MB.
Nope 6GBs, aka, 6000MBs http://www.ign.com/boards/t...
Were the hell did you get them numbers 3GBS can be used with just 16mbs watch MS build conference and it doesn't HOLD it streams @arbitorchief Tiled Resources enables much finer granularity texture streaming meaning that open-world games will feel much smoother and have less pop-in. It also eliminates the need for most loading screens. This is demonstrated in the Mars landscape example where the 16MB of texture data required for a frame can usually be streamed in a fraction of a second
There's only so much development that can be done against bottlenecks. http://www.spawnfirst.com/w... It's tough to deal with something like this.
@ArbitorChief and all the followers You shouldn't spend so much time on the MisterX blog or site or CULT. His "insiders" tell the most glorious stories about the X1 (one of being that with the D12 update they will surpass even a high-end PC, an being on par with it for the next 5-6 years..) and all these miracles have been proven wrong and made up. Everything wrong with the X1, is because Sony paid everybody off, including the developers of the X1... Everybody who posts there is or brainwashed or just in ultra-denial about everything, and probably still believes the world is flat. So please, before you post crap, make sure it's good crap
Lazy development on the part of the XBox One hardware division. How many console gens have to pass with one console making a difficult to program mistake before everyone stops doing stupid crap. MS dropped the ball this time.
Sure. Whatever helps you sleep at night. How about the console is underpowered compared to it's direct competitor? Yup...face facts.
Proven huh? Do tell us where. I'm dying to know, because honestly, there is absolutely no way that is possible without serious loss of quality to the textures, and the decompression time on the processor would make it unfeasible. I won't get into the technical details, but you simply can't decompress the textures as fast as the GPU can use them. GPU's simply don't work off compressed textures like that. People have the details mixed up on how that application actually works. Granted, with the quote you gave above, I can see why people could be confused, but that quote is not proof, just PR bull that has been shown to be wrong time and time again. Before you start calling devs lazy, perhaps you should learn what is involved in development. It's pretty apparent you have no idea about how the system itself works on the level being described here.
Just give them time and eventually everything will turn out great.
Last gen. Sony suffered a similar backlash. Cost, difficult architecture etc... Xbox One is this generations PS3.....but PS3 came good in the end, maybe Xbox One can?
No, even though the fact that the 360 had a whole year to gain momentum and popularity, the PS3 still outsold the 360 every single year. There is no chance that Sony are going to let this one slip in my opinion. Literally everything is on Sonys side from first party studio's, to price, to specs. Would have to be an extremely big 'maybe'.
My comment had 'nothing' to do with 'sales', I didn't even mention sales?? My original comment was about hardware difficulties and value/cost. Why do people like to re-imagine other peoples comments to suit their own??? Your mind is consumed with console war rhetoric, I wasn't even going there! Please READ more carefully...but I agree PS4 is unstoppable, I own one.
It is the sony fanboy mentality.
Well sorry, i'm not sure what 'came good in the end' means, if it doesn't refer to the sales? Maybe you are referring to it's reputation, but that is directly comparable with sales. Sales are a point of reference between the results of hardware difficulties and value/cost. Maybe that was me misinterpreting your meaning? bosoxs505, you can hush that dirty troll beak of yours, pal. Your 12 day old account is a blatant effort in stealth trolling. Nice try Cpt. Transparent. You see, the biggest fanboys are actually 2nd/3rd/4th account trolls like you. At least i'm trying to add substance to my comments, yours are dull one-liners, stealthily trying to put down Sony products. Time to make another account soon, huh? Hurry up champ..
Playstation had the exclusives that looked better than anything on Xbox last gen that's why they turned the table (that plus the ps3 slim). It doesn't look good for XbOne, but they are trying i guess...
@Hugodastrevas Thank you for at least addressing my actual comment and not going 'off the rails' .... I agree without prejudice, very sensible reply Hugo..please accept my 'bubble up vote' :) edit @FlunkinMonkey Yup I meant reputation and quality games... Lulz you made me giggle at your comment @Bosoxs505
Unfortunately for Microsoft they are still plagued by decisions Don Mattrick did and didn't make. One of the worst was not doing better about securing and developing 1st party studios and instead kept relying on a few franchises. Yes Sony made some similar mistakes last gen with the PS3 early on. But it was because of the 1st party studios and other relationships they had built up for years that helped them pull ahead. Microsoft can turn it around but it will be a long drawn out process and they most likely won't catch Sony and the PS4 this gen, but they will no doubt still be successful.
Yup. Mattrick came to the Xbox division in 2007 and became president in 2010. Around that time, the Xbox division started sucking, badly. Big push for Kinect 1.0, Mattrick. 1 major exclusive every year and it was from one of 3 large franchises, Mattrick. Every blunder from the X1 from Kinect 2.0 to weak hardware and DRM, all Don Mattrick. I'm sure he wasn't the guy who pioneered these ideas, but they came into fruition under his leadership and he seemed to be fond of them. Glad to see his ass at Zynga.
I agree. Don Mattrick was slowly killing Xbox for me. The Xbox had tons of great exclusives every year before he took over, and then they just fell of a cliff around 2010. The number of non-Kinect, non-Arcade exclusives on Xbox dropped massively after Mattrick took over. His whole vision for the brand was based around casuals. Now that he is gone, the brand is resurging. It will be difficult to overcome the obviously weaker hardware coupled with the more expensive price tag in comparison to PS4, but if there is one thing that can make gamers get over that discrepancy, it will be quality games exclusive to the console, and since Mattrick has been gone, they have been making a damned good effort to bring quality games to the Xbox brand again, which is very, very good for the industry and for gamers in general. So long Mattrick, good riddance. Welcome back, Xbox.
This is true, except even though the Cell was a pain in the ass to develop for it did actually become rather powerful at what it could do for the system. It's the reason why we got PS3 exclusives the way we did in the second half of the generation. The Xbone unfortunately doesn't have that same luxury.
difference was ps3 was difficult to program for and more powerful. in this gen, xbox is more difficult to program for (than ps4) and less powerful
"What are your thoughts on the Xbox One’s limitations, especially when it comes to the C4 Engine?" Easy😊 Build desent Pc and all yours problems disappears😄
If it was feasible to build the APU with 64MB of esram things would be playing out very differently. It seems to me that MS fell victim to the same problem sony had with the PS3...they had engineers design a processor without consulting with the developers (game engine devs) who would use it
Eric Lengyel is credited on the following games: Formula One Championship Edition (2007), Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc. Heavenly Sword (2007), Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc. Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (2007), Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc. Warhawk (2007), Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc. MotorStorm (2006), Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated Resistance: Fall of Man (2006), Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated Jak 3 (2004), Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc. Quest for Glory V: Dragon Fire (1998), Sierra On-Line, Inc.
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