1120°
Submitted by john2 170d ago | screenshot

Watch Dogs Comparison - Latest Build versus E3 2012 & June 2013 Builds

DSOGaming writes: "After releasing its latest trailer for Watch Dogs, Ubisoft was 'criticized' for dumbing down the visuals of its open-world title. Well, time to see how this latest build stands compared to the initial E3 2012 and the June 2013 builds. For what is worth, the latest 'story' trailer was based on the next-gen version of the game, meaning that this is what you'll be getting on PS4, Xbox One and PC." (PC, PS3, PS4, Watch Dogs, Wii U, Xbox 360, Xbox One)

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GraveLord  +   170d ago
Still hyped for this game. It's all about fun in the end right? I can't help but think PS3/360 held it back this time. Maybe Watch Dogs 2 will push PS4 to its limits.
Nitrowolf2  +   170d ago
Looks like Ubisoft really dumbed down the GFX big time if this is PS4/X1, I thought this trailer was for the ps3/360?
vishmarx  +   170d ago
i dunno ,someone needs to confirm the platforms.
ps4 version looks worse than gta v on last gen
SharnOfTheDEAD  +   169d ago
Who is disagreeing with the fact it looks worse? Look at the E3 reveal, all those months and it looks like this? Something seems rotten. If the trailer is from next gen/PC footage then just what the hell has been going on all these months?
PSN-JeRzYzFyNeSt  +   169d ago
this has to be PS3/360 footage..

havent ppl Played the game last year and it looked beautiful? wtf would ubisoft downgrade the graphic, dont they like money???? lol

no forreall this better be last Gen footage from today..

hopefully they are gearing up to annouce the same date with Next gen footage (PS4)
ivan510  +   169d ago
Indeed, when i first saw the trailer i though it was 360/ps3. Theyve really scaled down the graphics.
FamilyGuy  +   169d ago
:/

..So why did they claim to have delayed it for the better if the end result is worse?
#1.1.5 (Edited 169d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(2) | Report
AliTheSnake1  +   169d ago
IDK nor care what BS people are talking about cz of some bullshots. But we've seen what The PS4 and X1 can do, (Magic). And this game is gonna F shit up.

PS4/X1 Watch dogs trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watc...
Gameplay : http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Looks sick,Can't wait.
#1.1.6 (Edited 169d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(9) | Report
Patrick_pk44  +   169d ago
Do you expect the E3 reveals to be the final product when released? Clearly you haven't been around, or have been hiding underneath a rock. Every studio at E3 shows bullshots (a screenshot fabricated by a company to misrepresent the graphics of a game) to attract casuals to believe in their products. Never trust anything you see until the game is released.
NewMonday  +   169d ago
http://i.minus.com/iboqqHgy...

holy downgrade Batman!

so inFAMOUS:SS will be unchallenged as the best looking open world game
#1.1.8 (Edited 169d ago ) | Agree(24) | Disagree(3) | Report
Nitrowolf2  +   169d ago
@Patrick_pk44

I wasn't expecting it to look exactly like it, but if this is indeed ps4/x1 i expected it to look better. The reveal looked great, and in comparison, Infamous second son looks better than it IMO, so it's not otu of the question really to expect it to look decently close, with minor downgrades, now huge noticiable off the bat ones.
DaGR8JIBRALTAR  +   169d ago
if this is what we're getting on next-gen systems then it's a no go for me. I don't wanna hear "it's about fun in the end" either. Waiting all this time for this BULLSHEET! Somebody confirm that this is current-gen and fast!
yewles1  +   169d ago
juggulator  +   169d ago
It looks fine on PS4. If u have AC4 on PS4 you can see a trailer in the games content menu at the top. That trailer look like a last gen version. I think the site is doing some hardcore flaming. Just look at AC4 on PS4, there's no way the next gen version will look like the trailer seen on that website.
webeblazing  +   169d ago
maybe we was seeing the pc version. well im not effected gonna get the pc version, that if i get it. the game do seem interesting but never really got the point of being hyped.
vulcanproject  +   169d ago
Big downgrades since the first showings and earlier showings, although the first ones were clearly on a PC. E3 2012 had to be on a PC, because new consoles weren't remotely ready at that point.

This would explain a lot.

I hope the PC version is not as affected as much as the console versions. I don't mind if it is demanding as long as it matches the earlier versions, because eventually I'll have the hardware to max it even if I wouldn't right now.
#1.1.14 (Edited 169d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(4) | Report
mcarsehat  +   169d ago
@the people concerned

Who is saying that the e3 gameplay was what the game was GOING to look like? That's not why those demos are made, They are made to show what they WANT it to look like, the expectations that they want to meet to if they have a chance. It doesn't seem like Ubisoft had that chance. If this was a hands on preview, i would be worried but it isn't, the twonk even said the city looked lifeless as opposed to what every other preview said when they use words like frantic, bustling and full of life.

They didn't show the dynamic wind system, they last talked about near the end of last year, a few months after this 'new' build was shown so i'm still expecting that.

look at deep down for god sake or eight days, eight days looked better than some next gen games and that was a ps4 launch title, it's just hyperbole and bullshotted vertical sliced videos.

come on, it isn't exactly colonial marines, newsflash! console games have jaggies, they always will.
#1.1.15 (Edited 169d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(14) | Report
MaXiM1984  +   169d ago
Do any of you really think this game was delayed in order to improve it?

Because all I see is a lesser game (GTAV with better lightning), and when I see something as fishy as this I think about this game running at E3 2012 in PS4-like hardware when xbox one wasn't even mentioned.

Watch Dogs simply was too much for the Xbox One and now we have a PS3/xbox360 version and a PS3/xbox360 "plus" version.
#1.1.16 (Edited 169d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(5) | Report
starchild  +   169d ago
People are jumping the gun. This is one trailer and we're talking about a game with dynamic day/night and weather changes. I don't think we can say that the game has been downgraded until we see more.

It might have been upgraded in some areas and downgraded in others as development progressed and they sought to balance the game's design and the graphics and performance.

I don't think this was a very good comparison. None of the shots were comparing like-for-like.

For example, they show a small explosion (which looks great with some very nice particle effects and volumetric smoke) and compare it to a very large explosion, and the message is supposed to be "look how much better the old version looked". I'm sorry, but nope I'm not seeing it. They look like the same quality, only on a very different scale.

The rest of the comparison shots make little sense either. Most of them are of completely different areas under completely different lighting and atmospheric conditions (i.e. rainy, foggy night shot vs a clear day/dusk shot).

So far I'm not seeing the big downgrade people are claiming. And, at least as far as this comparison is concerned, there is actually more evidence for areas that have been upgraded (like the smoke during the car crash scene) than any solid evidence of a downgrade.
#1.1.17 (Edited 169d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(11) | Report
AlphaTauri  +   169d ago
looks completely lifeless (no physics in surrounding world) compared to the original E3 trailer - probably can only be done a high powered PC.
UltraNova  +   169d ago
Definitely a downgrade from E3 and those live demos no question!

Maybe someone forced ($$$)Ubisoft into multi-platform parity? And the recent rumors of a Wii U port could explain it
DoctorXpro  +   169d ago
True, so much im not even buying anymore
Dee_91  +   169d ago
Very dissappointed.. i dont even want to see the division and the crew.I was so pumped for these games.. well I still am, but if this is how they will look.I wouldve been better off waiting on buying a ps4 and just playing the ps3 version..
Hope it improves
Maddness189  +   169d ago
The story trailer was made on Xbox 360
Fluke_Skywalker  +   169d ago
Got to lol at the people defending this game, I'd be willing to bet those same people wouldn't have defended Guerilla over that KZ2 2005 reveal! This is exactly the same except Guerilla actually got the final product close too the trailer, this isn't even close!

And why on earth would they be showing PS3/360 footage in a trailer, they're trying to sell it to us not put us off! This is obviously the best looking footage they have!
#1.1.23 (Edited 169d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(0) | Report
Yi-Long  +   169d ago
I liked the old face of the main character better. They 'mainstreamed' him too much.

Not sure what to think about the game. It looked promising, but the wait has been long, and it doesn't seem truly next-gen to me.

Also, like the first Assassin's Creed, I think this will be one of those games that tests the waters but doesn't really live up to it's potential, and probably in a 2nd or 3rd game, they'll get it all right. Hopefully.

The main issue I have is that it all seems a bit 'gimmicky' in nature: Oh, hack this and something cool happens. Hack that and a car will crash.

I'm sure that makes for some 'fun' events to happen, but I'm not sure that makes for fun GAMEPLAY.

In Assassin's Creed you had the cool free-running and combat and interesting locations and all that. It was colorful and a playground and you had awesome kills.

This just seems a lot more 'muted', missing the fun and freedom you might wish for in a sandbox game.
mewhy32  +   169d ago
Well it's immedtiately obvious what is happening here. Ubi is dumbing down the game because they are trying to achieve parity for the xbone. This is a big budget game and they want to make as much money as possbile so they are dumbing down the effects, bloom, physics, etc, to make the PS4 and xbone games are close as possible. They don't want the media pointing out that the xbone release is inferior to the PS4 release, like we're seeing over and over and over on multiconsole games currently hitting the market. I was hoping that we wouldn't see this culling back of games for the sake of parity on lesser consoles but it appears that the PS4 community is getting gypped this time around. I say push BOTH consoles to their max and let the devs take full advantage of what's available to them on a given hardware, including PC. Then when lesser machines cant keep up it will push the slacking companies to make better hardware in the future and drive the industry forward. To heck with parity. If you want the better version then get the better machine. PERIOD
Braid  +   170d ago
They might as well call it the Downgrade Dogs, because that's just what it is.
lulumink  +   169d ago
LOL, well said. It looks like Need for Speed 3.
vigilante_man  +   169d ago
Some developers have pride in their art and cannot be bought by the mighty M$. Ubisoft are not one of those.

Way to downgrade what was looking like a great game. Makes you wonder what resolution and graphic features the PS4 version had in November!
Maddness189  +   169d ago
The story trailer was made on XBOX 360.
#1.2.3 (Edited 169d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report
GotHDGame  +   170d ago
Wow, it really does not look as good as it did before. I thought if they were "polishing it" it was going to look and run even better.

I don't know I am kind of getting sick of the hype about this game. It is going to be very hard to live up to all of it.

Hell I think there is more hype about this than GTA5, online at least.

Super Smash Bros is another one that may have some trouble living up to the hype, although Nintendo will more than likely pull it off.
#1.3 (Edited 170d ago ) | Agree(19) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
WickedLester  +   169d ago
Can't use that excuse. Games like Destiny and and Metal Gear Solid Ground Zeroes are also multi-generational titles and they look amazing.
mcarsehat  +   169d ago
people are saying the same thing about ground zeroes lol
theXtReMe1  +   169d ago
I just watched the new trailer extensively, pausing it when I saw shots of the city both day and night. While I'm not so sure that the polygon count was downgraded, what I did notice is that there are no shadows been cast by pretty much anything. It looks like the sun and moon are the only light sources that create shadows and I'm not even sure that isn't prebaked. It looks like they took self shadowing out, which gives everything that flat low resolution look. I also noticed that lit objects arent casting their light either. Look at the stoplights or street lamps and you can notice that their lights arent casting out to the metal surrounding it.

So, I think they took out self shadowing and light casting, which is why everything looks flatter than it did in the original videos.
neogeo  +   169d ago
Don't tell me it's prebaked. I hate that word
geddesmond  +   169d ago
Well my interest for the game came because of the graphics. I'll still get the game but it's a real dam shame the game got dumbed down. I've played the Dead Nation PS4 version today after playing the PS3 version for weeks and the improved graphics really make a better difference to your overall experience when playing a game.
lulumink  +   169d ago
Not anymore. I'm more hyped for Divison. not this one.
Maddness189  +   169d ago
Ask Ubisoft.
solar  +   169d ago
It is pretty simple to understand. Next gen consoles are not powerful enough to run what Uni has shown in 2012 and the game had to be altered
Eddie20101  +   166d ago
Most of the E3 footage was said to be on PS4 and it looked great, they never showed any Xbox One footage that I Know of. It gets delayed to make the game better, yet the graphics get downgraded. Anyone ever think that it may be because of Xbox One and Microsoft parity clause? Maybe they thought if the PS4 version looks significantly better than the Xbox One version that it would hurt the sales of the game on Xbox One. We all know they want to sell as many copies as possible.

Maybe it's not the case but seems very plausible to me.
#1.10 (Edited 166d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
NYC_Gamer  +   170d ago
Watch Dogs took a huge hit on the technical side compared to its first E3 preview
#2 (Edited 170d ago ) | Agree(23) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
Meltic  +   170d ago
i Think it was their problem. The technical side. It looked to good to run at 30-60 fps. Laggy and buggy game. So they scaled it down MUCh and made it better in the AI and humans meaby ..
esemce  +   169d ago
Yes It was running on a high spec PC at e3 for sure and it did look quite 'next gen', we can only hope that this trailer is of ps3/360 version.

If even the PC version has been scaled back then there will be a sh1tstorm.

The poor textures and lack of dynamic lighting in this trailer is worrying.
DeadIIIRed  +   169d ago
Or it was just the same prerendered crap developers have been trying to sell as their upcoming game for the past six years.

It's like dating online. You show up thinking you're going out with a tall blonde and it ends up being a short, fat, divorced 40 year old man.
Shakengandulf  +   169d ago
I'd wager that these are previous gen clips that have been mistaken for this new gen.
I dont think we have anything to be worried about.
I will however eat my words if they double confirm these shots to be ps4/one.
Meltic  +   170d ago
wtf ?
MisterFantastic  +   170d ago
I don't get it
Gardenia  +   169d ago
Well no shit. They build on experience of AC, and let's be honest that has never been the best looking game out there. I never understood the hype for Watchdogs anyway. Could be a nice game but definitely nothing new or special
DaGR8JIBRALTAR  +   169d ago
Ummm...AC 4 on PS4 is beautiful.
justicefanboyX  +   169d ago
god av iv was so last gen on graphics even on ps4 i bought it and the next day i returned it.it looked awefull
starchild  +   169d ago
AC4 is one of the best looking games on the PS4 (in the top 3 for sure), so I have no idea what you are talking about.

Watch Dogs still looks promising to me.
DOMination-  +   169d ago
All The AC games have looked beautiful at their release
RedCloud88  +   169d ago
@ starchild

you're crazy if you believe that. Killzone, nba 2k, and battlefield are the 3 best looking ps4 games. AC4 is a good game, but even on my pc(3.4ghz i7, 16gb ram, and a 4gb GeForce 770) it doesn't compare to those ps4 titles.
curtis92  +   170d ago
It's not uncommon when you're building a game on hypothetical hardware specs.... Also, they're wanting to have some parity between versions (ARRRGH)
porkChop  +   169d ago
Hypothetical hardware? We'd seen the game literally running on next gen systems last year and it looked much better than this new trailer. If the consoles could run it then, then wth happened?
cyguration  +   169d ago
You've seen it running on PCs.

Don't forget that's how Microsoft fooled you all into buying games like Forza 5 and Dead Rising 3, when they turned out to not look anything near as good as their E3 trailers.
porkChop  +   169d ago
@cyguration

Yeah, we all know about Microsoft's E3 demos. But the PS4 demo from last September was actually running on a PS4.
logan_izer10  +   169d ago
We all watched Jimmy Fallon play it on PS4!
#5.1.3 (Edited 169d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(0) | Report
ITPython  +   169d ago
I think the devs misunderstood a bit. MS told them to have parity with the Xbox One, but perhaps they misheard and thought MS meant the Xbox 360.

Whoops!
DarkLord1003  +   170d ago
WTF indeed!
Atariz  +   170d ago
I still have hope.. but yea wtf
ritsuka666  +   170d ago
I think we all can agree this game has tremendous potential but I'm just NOT impressed with what they have shown so far.
PrinceOfAllSaiyans  +   170d ago
That makes no since for a game to be delayed this long and then look worse. That's really really disappointing. I was hoping the trailer was the 360 version or something. I know graphics arent everything but in a open world realistic game like this having amazing graphics is a huge benefit. Oh well.
#8 (Edited 170d ago ) | Agree(24) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
bobacdigital  +   170d ago
Makes complete sense when you realize that watch dogs and starwars 1313 werent running on the actual consoles themselves... It was pretty much proven that many of msfts games at e3 were running on PCs .. Not sure about sony but this would make complete sense.

The delayed this game cause of GTA and running behind production schedules...
MaxwellBuddha  +   169d ago
ALL GAMES you see at E3 are running on PCs. That's why the gameplay is always so fluid without any of the st-st-stutter you see in the final retail release.

WHY, GOD, WHY did the PC version have to dumbed down, too?!
bienio  +   170d ago
I think if Pc can run up to 4k resolution its easy to understNad this version it will be look amazing!!!:) btw sory for my English..
Kayant  +   170d ago
If this is current gen footage --> http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

Then watchdogs has received a massive downgrade. In that lighting, road textures, shadows, car model, buildings also? have all been downgraded.

Edit -

I wonder how close the PC version with get to the reveal.
#10 (Edited 170d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
DeadIIIRed  +   169d ago
Jeeze, what's they're brightness and contrast set to? Those are terrible blacks in that gif.
RedCloud88  +   169d ago
I'm really hoping the pc version still ends up looking like the original builds, I upgraded my pc for this game.
Pancit_Canton   170d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(1)
Saithraphim  +   170d ago
Its looks like a comparison between a ps3/360 version and a next gen version
MaxwellBuddha  +   169d ago
If this doesn't highlight the power gap between PCs and "next gen" consoles, nothing will.

You'd think publishers would check out how much money PC gamers have forked over for Star Citizen and try to cater to that audience. You know, the one that ACTUALLY SPENDS MONEY. It would also greatly reduce development costs because then you wouldn't have to pay developers to spend TWO YEARS chipping away at their work just to get the damn thing running at a paltry 30 frames-per-second on piddly-ass PS4.

*@bobacdigital - Bubble up!
#12.1 (Edited 169d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(8) | Report | Reply
Empire X  +   170d ago
Wow!!
bobacdigital  +   170d ago
I was under the impression that the E3 preview was conduct on a PC with multiple video cards? It isnt a surprise that the build they are showing now running on the actual consoles isnt nearly as good.

Never take demos at e3 at face value ...
#14 (Edited 170d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
porkChop  +   169d ago
They had the game running on an actual PS4 last year, and it looked nearly identical to the PC footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...
bobacdigital  +   169d ago
MSFT said the same thing after E3 when it turned out they were running the game on a PC with similar specs to the dev kits.
#14.1.1 (Edited 169d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(14) | Report
LeCreuset  +   169d ago
@bobacdigital

Then maybe that's the system you should be questioning. Did they downgrade it to create more parity between the PS4 and XB1 versions?
Aon  +   170d ago
Watch Dogs it will be nice game.
listenkids  +   170d ago
I assume these are print screens from the overly compressed Youtube trailer?
RE_L_MAYER  +   170d ago
i dont understand it looked perfect in demo gameplay months ago-there is more reasons than this why the game was delayed
GamersHeaven  +   169d ago
Please tell me this is 360/ps3 version that is a massive downgrade from what we have see so far.
merciless  +   169d ago
This is a joke! this is some type of early april fools joke right? I want the watchdogs they showed at e3 2012 this looks so poor you could call it a completely different game!!!
Convas  +   169d ago
Please tell me the PC version is closer to the E3 2012 reveal and it hasn't been dumbed down to console levels.

Ubisoft. pls.
MaxwellBuddha  +   169d ago
Oh, don't worry: I'm sure it got dumbed down along with the console versions.

Freaking PATHETIC that a PC build from 2 YEARS AGO completely destroys the "next gen" versions.

Consoles: holding back gaming since 2005.
yezz  +   169d ago
How does this seem to come as a surprise for you?! A PC from 2012 that probably costs 2000$ish is still more powerful than a 2013 console that costs 399$. Who knew...

These E3 demos are always shown with the latest and most expensive tech available at the time. Of course the MUCH cheaper console wont have that kind of power.

edit: aand I'm very interested to hear why do you disagree with these facts..
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DeadMansHand  +   169d ago
Oh, stop with the PC Elitist crap. Wah wah my compooper is being held hostage by a console. Consoles have spawned awesome devs into the industry and berthed tons of great games that you cannot get on PCs. If you're so above the rest of us then go build a damn PC game and make it run at 120fps and in 1,000,000p. I'm sure you will sell a boatload.
jay2  +   169d ago
Poor puppy dog :( what a nasty downgrade.
Dr_Anrak  +   169d ago
This is why I don't pre-order.
Sniperwithacause  +   169d ago
How does pre ordering the game or any game for that matter have anything to do with how the final games looks or plays? So are you implying that if the game was pre ordered by gamers that they got screwed over somehow? I canceled my previous order the day it was delayed from the ps4 launch.
Dr_Anrak  +   169d ago
Step off.

I can spend my money how ever I want. And don't try to say I was "implying" anything when I only spoke for myself.
mochachino  +   169d ago
Honestly, I'd much prefer they just lower the resolution and bring back all the fantastic effects and physics. When playing the actual game it makes the graphics much better than a sharper image with less physics, lighting, and other effects. I want the best graphics, not the crispest image, 720p can suffice.

PS3/360 could do 1080p, they didn't for a reason. That reason still exists in the new-gen.

This obsession on 1080p fuelled by the gaming media will end up giving us only higher-def versions of last-gen games.
Shane Kim  +   169d ago
Dude that is not the case. How come KZ:SF looks so beautiful with 1080p image. Not to talk about the upcoming inFamous game wich looks at least 100 times better than this game, running in 1080p.

Lets just face it, it's Ubisoft.
yezz  +   169d ago
This is an open world game with loads of AI and a massive network created in it. A bit more demanding..

But I do agree that the clips and screens from this article make the game look old. Those just have to be from last gen version! It doesn't even look much better than gta v there and the new consoles are much more capable...
pody  +   169d ago
@yezz
And Infamous isn't?
GiantFriendlyCrab  +   169d ago
its ubisoft, what do you expect. They are worse than EA
SnotyTheRocket  +   169d ago
Yeah, Ubi doesn't release broken games. so, no, they're not worse than EA.
cyguration  +   169d ago
No they aren't. Don't lie like that bro.

There's a reason EA has been voted Worst Company in America two times in a row.
Ipunchbabiesforfun  +   169d ago
LIARS! That new footage is HORRID in comparison. It looks like a xbox 360 game. It's like GTA IV
mogwaii  +   169d ago
GTA IV looks BETTER
hkgamer  +   169d ago
quite sickening tbh.

i wanna see if PC is any better. not that i have a PC to play it, just want to see if ubi is taking the piss.
Ipunchbabiesforfun  +   168d ago
I have a very expensive PC and I wanted a TRUE next gen game!
conrmacleod  +   169d ago
DAMN... If I don't see an updated Next Gen Trailer compared to this very Last Gen thing, I'm going to cancel my Pre-order.. The immersivity is completely gone from this latest trailer, what a major dissapointment compared to the E3-12 reveal trailer... Where are You Ubi? Explain Please!
#26 (Edited 169d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
GiantFriendlyCrab  +   169d ago
the division is up next, lol
GiantFriendlyCrab  +   169d ago
http://i.minus.com/iboqqHgy...

they delayed the game to make people forget how good the game looked back in 2012, they needed to build for the game first
#28 (Edited 169d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
barb_wire  +   169d ago
Is that what the delay was for then? Pretty sizeable downgrade.. now is it because of the PS3/360?, too many assets spread across too many systems?
cyguration  +   169d ago
Rumor was that they had to meet parity between the PS4/XB1, just like Infinity Ward had to meet parity with Ghosts for the launch on PS4/XB1, and then later released a patch to make the PS4 version better.
ConwayGritty  +   169d ago
The newer trailer clearly displays a xbox 360 game case and logo of “xbox 360" in the original. I stress, this is not xbox one trailer! This is the 360 trailer
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19m ago - GamesRadar - Heroes that insist on doing everything on their own must be socially inept, trying t... | Culture
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