With the hype surrounding The Order: 1886, Sony Insider 'Thuway' tackles comments revolving The Order's FPS
What other reason would people tout the res and FPS? There's a difference when an exclusive runs at 30fps and a mulitplat where one runs at double the frames at the same visual fidelity. 30fps will still be the majority choice. I don't know why some gamers don't know that, in the closed console space, devs will almost always choose better visual fidelity at the cost of FPS.
I'm feeling this game will be 30fps. I do need to add that the ps4 runs games at higher framerate/Res and higher fidelity. Most people who've played tr on both conses at saying the ps4 version looks noticably better.
@edonus: Problems with your first paragraph. There's so many I'm just going paragraph by paragraph to reply. If you read the previous comment, you would be able to tell that I was talking about xbox one, as I was replying to it. Second, Ryse doesn't have the highest fidelity. Lower framerate, Res, AA, etc than KZSF. Not to mention, both RYSE and Forza have a lot less going on in the background than KZSF (very little AI in ryse). I should have put Framerate and resolution, I know they're different things. I was just using them to prove the same point, so I lumped them into the same category. Also, you say slight difference. TR: higher framerate and (probably) res on ps4. Battlefield: higher textures, AA, Res on PS4. COD: higher everything except framerate. AC4: Higher res, and probably other things, but there aren't many comprisons I've seen. Every game that's yet to release that's commented on the matter has said the PS4 version will look better. Those may only sound like slight difference to you, but those differences are twice as hard to run. Second paragraph: How does the ps4 only look better in "very specific ways" than the xbox one? Seriously tell me. "tons of factors" means nothing. I actually provide specific detail. If a game runs better on certain platforms, it just runs better. There's no if and or buts about it. Also, TR doesn't run at a "slightly higher" framerate on the ps4. The Xbox one version runs anywhere from 18-30fps, averaging at about 26-28fps, depending on the video. The ps4 ran 34-60fps, with an average just over 50fps. Not double, but pretty close. Not to mention, most people that have played both versions say that the ps4 version appears to have a higher res. The reason the framerate is capped is the xbox one version would hover around 28-34fps most of the time, causing stuttering. I agree that the media has herded us to only look at those two factor, but that's because they're the most easily comparable. Every 3rd party game I've seen has had basically higher everything (res, detail, etc.) on the ps4 version. I think what you were getting at earlier with "tons of other factors" was there are other details than framerate and res. But if the ps4 and xbox one were the same power, why would they make the xbox one have lower res, and the ps4 have lower detail? That makes no sense. Sorry dude, but you have to acknowledge that the xbox one is completely inferior to the ps4. My vgchartz name is lt_dan_27 if you want to go further with this.
So wait. Now 30fps is good and is a choice they made right? Hahahahahaha... oh you PS fans. You so crazy. So I guess it was design choice for Ryse to hit at 900p... that's just bad X1 hardware, but these guys choosing to go at 30fps.. that's just choice. Love it. Love that Thuway is becoming this "always correct" PlayStation Champion. Love how the article calls him a "Sony Insider" Exactly. Pro Sony.
Got to love the covert console war.
The point is the Xbone isn't capable of higher framerates at 1080p resolution, the PS4 is. So keep trying to justify your purchase if you want to, but you still chose the least powerful one. So you might as well quit grasping for straws. It's pathetic.
Love Thuway! Way to defend.
He's actually right too lol
im getting a ps4 but come on most of the games cant even stay at 60fps most of the time. They just drop down to 30,40 fps/ Dev should lock it at 30 fps
so is the order confirmed not to be 1080p?
Idk but they did say "full HD" and 30fps
Im pretty sure the final res will be 1920x800p due to the 2.40:1 aspect ratio. The image quality will still be the same as a 1080p image though due to game not being upscaled.
@tee_bag242 It's not damage control, when you're correct misinformation. If people were actually intelligent on here instead of being childish and acting their age instead of their shoe size, then people wouldn't have to constantly correct them. It amazes me how ignorant some of you kids can be. Just a waste of brain cells.
Lol the quality will be the same? 1080p =1920x800p lol PS fanboys spin every look at the comments below how 1080p and 60fps only matter with multiplats
You really don't understand do you. Look up the difference between 'aspect ratio' and 'resolution' before you go and make yourself look a fool in another article about this. And yes, the only reason 1080p/60fps has any relevance is because it is the perfect representation of the difference in power between the PS4 and the X1. The whole conversation has been subverted by X1 owners in order to divert attention away from the obvious power difference. Anything to avoid facing the truth.
lmao like when xbox fans said 900p was better than 1080p remember those days aww good times, except in the order the game keeps the 1080p pixel density just with a different aspect ratio so yes the ORDER:1886 is Full HD 1080p is that so hard to understand.
I love how confident people like you sound when it's apparent to people who actually have knowledge on these matters see how little you know of what you talk about. Listen closely. The Order 1886 runs at 1920x800p, the aspect ratio is 2.40:1 hence the black bars at the top and bottom of the image. Each pixel inbetween those black bars are at 1:1 meaning each pixel has it's place, no upscaling. Therefore the image inbetween the black bars will have the same image quality as a native 1920x1080p image which also has 1:1 pixel ratio. So the size of the playable area won't be the same, but the image quality IN that playable area will be the same. Please just do a Google search before commenting next time. You give X1 fans a bad rep.
Lol most multiplats aren't even good looking 2 a game that is made only on one console like UC series GOW series TLOU and GT series as proven ps3 exclusives all r 720P and shits on every 3rd party games and 360 exclusive as well. So even it's 1920x800P I can tell u it will end up being the best looking game of this year till ND and SSM make their games and being blown away by them.
Now its not about native 1080p its about have the pixel density the same as 1080p lol spin spin I Dont really care its just funny how much each side bash each other and spin their words for their beloved company. Try being humble and stfu and enjoy the games.
Wow, it doesn't matter how many times someone tells you that it is full hd you still don't TRY to comprehend the differences. Ignorance by choice is just idiocy.
Its 1920x800 so it is technically NOT full HD but it will be the same as watching a bluray movie with black bars above and below frames, so it will still look full HD lol sorry for the confusion
Actually, HD is about pixel count by its very definition, not aspect ratio. Just like reature films that choose those black lines, it doesnt magically make it SD. Its still HD by definition.
I'm beginning to think this Ashan Rasheed's real alias Kanye West.
The FPS argument is only valid it seems when comparing games on both systems it seems. But when its a sony game that runs at 30FPS its all good. Based on what I read on this site on a daily basis. 30 FPS should be unacceptable on any next gen game??? Or is it only unacceptable when its a XB1 game??
DR3 runs at 720p and 30fps and falls below 30fps would you consider that acceptable? if you do then don't worry about the Order.
Game runs just fine. It's fun as hell to.
DR3 I never encountered any slow down at any point. Have you?? Or are you just reiterating misinformation that people like to put out there as fact. Lets say it does indeed dip below 30FPS at points in the game. (which I havent experienced. Is it dipping below 30 to the pont thats its unplayable?? As far as worrying about The Order. I dont worry about any game. I like games and I am keeping my eye on THe Order and all titles as I want to buy a PS4 and this game is on my radar. My comment about 30 vs 60 FPS is based on the fact that SOME...not all tout 1080/60 for the PS4 as the end all to be all. But when a game is NOT hitting that. It is A-OK! No problems here. Me personally I dont care about the RES or FPS. As long as the game looks and plays as the DEV intended then I will except that.
@AShley "DR3 I never encountered any slow down at any point. Have you?? Or are you just reiterating misinformation that people like to put out there as fact." Smfh did i say it has slow downs fact it goes below 30fps think im lying look it up :/.
To be fair, capcom stated it was running on the old DR1 and DR2 engine. If they used the Deep Down next gen engine, DR3 would have preformed much better
I've played DR3 for over 50 hours. Not once has the frame rate appeared to drop. The review builds and the conference builds may have dropped below 30 fps, but from my play thrus it appears Capcom patched this appropriately on Day One.
'Or is it only unacceptable when its a XB1 game' ...if its a multiplatform game where the other console is pushing more, yes. It would be stupid to chastise 30fps. You'll leave yourself open for ridicule when a game has to run at that rate BUT if theres a difference between multis of course there will be blood....this is n4g
@SonyROX Last time I checked women loved ponies. You need to stay off nxtgen720's YouTube page because his poor education level is affecting the Xbox community.
So if that's true it's only multiplats, please explain. #1 why was Ryse and DR3 ridiculed for not hitting that benchmark even though it's fact DR3 pushed huge open world gameplay with more zombies on screen than any console before, ALL of which is not possible last gen with no loading on top so to increase immersion and Ryse pushes superior next gen detail charachters never seen before but both are always heavily bashed because they don't meet the fictitious next gen benchmarks. #2 Why are those ports not just seen as what they really are which are old last gen games in TR case not even the same dev trying to make quick cash without putting in the time to use the hardware properly on the X1. #3 Forza5 despite its flaws has been praised as setting the bar in next gen visuals, lighting, physics, the only game to do 1080p 60fps locked at launch, but its nitpicked to death by ps fans even though those things don't stop it from being on top for a next gen racer. Yeah it certainly seems these artificial benchmarks are only important when it's not a ps4 exclusive.
Not at all 4show. I said it would be stupid to moan about 30fps.....its right there and nowhere did I say we shouldn't criticise ps exclusives......because its not there......smh, in the grand scheme of things multiplats are the easiest way of comparing strengths, not the best, but the easiest. You shouldn't sidestep that the x1 was struggling to hit parity with that old engine nor forget that pretty much every current multiplatform game has performed better on the ps4. Lets compare any of the ps3 exclusives to any of the x1 exclusives. What set of titles have the average higher fps and resolution, sony or ms's? I've personally thought playstation exclusives trumped ms ones for the last 6 years at least but that could be down to the talent each company poses. Ive always said if ms had and could utilise a studio like naughty dog, santa monica et al on the 360, they could probably work wonders on it. Last gen, for many, it was the multiplats proved x y or z. The minor differences used to championed. Just go back to df and lot articles to remind yourself of what you've obviously forgotten. Now all of a sudden the differences, although far greater, are now insignificant.... wtf-ever man.... On one of your points, lets compare ryse to killzone and the technical difference is significant but anybody could rightly call that comparison unfair. Lets wait for driveclub vs forza, which took a blatant downgrade since the fallon show. Lets do a like for like as theres nothing like ryse on the ps and nothing like killzone on the xbox in terms of hardware pushing exclusives. Ill be here all gen just like last gen...
Yes it isn't valid, unless there's a version of The Order on the Xbone with the same visuals and resolution and FPS as the Ps4 version that we don't know about, then what you're saying would be valid, otherwise it doesn't because any dev has the choice to lower FPS to get better graphics, but when you see a game (like Tomb Raider) with basically the same visuals and resolution but a lower FPS on xbone that is a noticeable difference. To put it simply...If the Order was to release on the bone with the exact same graphics and resolution it has now, the frame rate won't hit 30 at all. And the opposite could be said about Xbone exclusives, if they were to be ported over to the Ps4 they could achieve higher FPS at the same resolution and visual fidelity as the xbone versions.
"30 FPS should be unacceptable on any next gen game??? Or is it only unacceptable when its a XB1 game??" Ive seen multiple people say this and ill say the same thing to you that i said to them. The criticism doesn't come from X1 games running at 30fps.....because a lot of them DON'T run at a locked 30fps. The dropping below 30fps is where the criticizing is coming from, especially when such games don't even run at 1080p to begin with. If The Order is released and it dips below 30fps and the people who previously said 30fps is unacceptable suddenly say "it's fine", then i will understand. "But when its a sony game that runs at 30FPS its all good" The majority of games i have played so far have been 30fps on PS4. Any locked 30fps game is all good in my opinion (apart from FPS's). The problem is coming from games that run below that....in which case the X1 has quite a few. Also, games we have criticized for running at 30fps or below on the X1 have been games that also have PS4 versions that look and run better. The X1 wont have a version of The Order to compare the PS4 version with, so it doesn't make sense to say that 30fps is unacceptable from a PS4 exclusive when we have no idea how it would perform on the X1 (although judging from Ryse and all of the multiplats i'd say it would run/look worse).
Then why is no one criticizing Knack for running below 30fps? Or killzone shadow fall not being locked at 60fps? http://www.youtube.com/watc... or the single player not being locked at 30fps and dropping into the 20s at times? http://www.youtube.com/watc... The hypocrisy is so obvious. In fact, Tomb Raider also is not locked at 60fps on the ps4, the hypocrisy is extremely evident.
Wait a minute.....we're comparing a game that isnt looked at a higher fps and resolution vs ones locked at 30fps. People are criticising knack. The problem which you and others are artfully dodging is that the easiest way of comparing strengths is multiplats. Its more telling when the disparity between two versions are so great. Now before you say 'but what about last gen' Id say what about it....there were more better looking games that were exclusive to sonys platform that proved its graphical capabilities over some very good lookingnand performing multiplats. The same may happen this gen with the x1 but at the moment, the pool for both camps is small. Ryse, although pretty as fcuk is low res and suffers from drastic dips in fps even at that said res. Forza, although 1080p and 60 fps isnt the game they touted on tv. The footage is there for all to see so ignorance, critical thinking or laziness gets you nil pois. Driveclub hasn't hit that 60 fps but is technically more advanced from what ive seen and read so this may not be some 1 way traffic like some of my sony bretherin believe... Both camps will improve if their stables of talent shine. This wont be a walkover by any means but a betting man would have to see stronger hardware plus more proven talent, at least, as an advantage in sonys favour.
@CrossingEden: Weren't you and all the other Sony haters criticizing those games for JUST those things? Do you need to look through your own comment history for a refresher? Who the hell gave you a Well Said?
I believe the reason so many people believe it's unacceptable is more to do with the cost of the xbox one. If the system was around the same amount or cheaper no one would really have an issue with it some diehard fans would probably say you get what you pay for but overall you would not see as much backlash that you are seeing now. I have no issue with the system itself it's just that it doesn't have the games currently or in the near future that warrants a purchase from me. I do not look at what a system is capable of, it has more to do with the software the products has or will have.
I'm right there with you. I don't get it. If it's a multi plat it's bad and if it's a x1 exclusive it's bad but if it's the ps4 it's a okay because it's Sony. Fan boys have always been annoying and will always be annoying. If you're going to complain about 30 fps then you need to complain about 30 fps ALL the time not just pick and choose. I think the game looks great but I also don't care if it's 30 fps 45 or 60. If it's fun to play and still looks good why does it really matter?? Games to me are about having fun and as gaming has gotten older I feel like a lot of people have forgotten that.
The problem is so many people focus on the fanboy arguments instead of the well reasoned ones. I don't get it. Here's the deal: The resolution and framerate wars started whenever the specs for the consoles leaked/were revealed and people began debating the power difference between the PS4 and the Xbox One. Then the resolution for multiplatform games like Call of Duty: Ghosts and Battlefield 4 leaked and the PS4 was not only a higher resolution, but a more stable framerate as well. So people began blowing things out of proportion because of the ongoing power difference debate. Then, leaks came out for Xbox One exclusive games like Ryse and Dead Rising 3, and it wasn't so much that those games ran at approximately 30FPS but that it was doing so at 900p and 720p respectively. Sure, along the way there are tons of hypocrites on both sides and the points get muddled; but if you ignore the fanboys you'll see the point. Now, games like Knack and Killzone may only be 30FPS but they are 1080p. If somebody wants to argue over why some are more fussed about resolution than framerate then ok, but remember this argument stems from the power difference so it's very, very clear as to why Sony 30FPS/1080p is "acceptable" and Xbox One 30FPS/sub1080p isn't. Now we have a game in The Order 1886 which not only has a 1080p resolution trimmed down to 1920x800 for cinematic reasons, but also the developer is pushing soft body physics and real time lighting that console games haven't achieved before. So 30FPS for a game like that is so far more acceptable than things like Dead Rising 3 and Ryse. Sadly, too many on this site get wrapped up in the idiotic and misinformed comments. I'd urge you to not fall into that category if you want any meaningful discourse. Oh, and the resolution and framerate difference between multiplatform games will ALWAYS matter. That's separate from exclusive performance debates.
The Xbone and PS4 are just not very powerful machines, it's as simple as that. We get what we pay for, the PS4 is good for the price but shows it's limitations when it cannot hold 60fps in Killzone SF or BF4 (which I both own). I will get a ton of disagrees from fanboys in denial but even the PS4 is nothing to brag about, sure it will have great exclusives like UC4 and that's why I own it. But gloating about it's power to Xbone owners is sad really when it pales compared to even a low end card such as a GTX660.
GTX660 will not run BF4 @ 1080p with stable 60fps. Pick a better card if your gonna gloat PC elitism.
I sincerely hope you know better and are just trolling. 30fps isn't bad. What's bad is when one console runs a game at 30fps, while the other runs the same game at 60. I don't know what the hell you THINK you read on a daily basis, but nobody's saying or implying 30fps is bad except MS fanboys trying to make Sony supporters out to be hypocrites. It seems, even then, that you don't know what it means to be a hypocrite. See, for Sony fans/fanboys to be acting hypocritically, there'd need to be a multiplat that was 30fps on the PS4 and 60fps on the XB1 that was okay in their eyes. Since there isn't... your argument falls flat. I just can't get how some of you guys think. The connections you make between various concepts and ideas just doesn't follow anything resembling "sense."
I will stick by what I said. And I asked the questions to gauge what people think. I agree that yes it is telling that a specific game...Tomb Raider runs at 60 on PS4 and 30 on the XB1. Would I want both to run at 60...sure. But for a TPS is 60 really that noticeable? The Order is running at 30 ..OK cool. I have no problem with the dev putting it at 30. And as far as what I read ... is from different people so I wont LUMP everyone into one voice. Some like to make it seem that its 1080/60 or BUST. So if you yourself dont feel that way then my questions werent directed at you. It maninly directed at the ones who tout the PS4 and use 1080/60 as a benchmark that the system can pull off.....then when a game is NOT reaching that.....you dont hear or read anyone having a problem with that. Take KZSF...I believe the SP runs at 30 FPS. (correct me if im wrong) This is a first party game.....has anyone questioned the 30FPS for a FPS?? For me....I always respect the devs decisions on whats best. Take a game like Titanfall....ejust about every decision they have made is under high scrutiny ...not from everyone but from quite a few. Its like lets let the devs do what they do ...make great games so we can have fun. The back and forth about FPS yadda yadda is weird for real. The ORder....I hope its awesome...looks great ..AND plays great. Im looking for a killer game to buy when I get mine. I just feel that games on the PS4 are not being bashed when they dont reach certain levels that some say ALL next (current) gen games should. Trust that is this game was a X1 only game. The fact that it has no MP and is at 30FPS ...I suspect it would get bashed left and right. (but that is not whats happening) the state of the game is being excepted. What I wish is that ALL games no matter the system are given that respect. THIS was longer then expected.
@ASHby KZ is just like COD Ghosts on PS4 1080/30 for SP. 1080/60 for MP. Lets not act like there arent fanboys on both sides. Ultimately 60fps will always be better then 30fps. It does break into sub categories to me however. You have devs that choose 30 for artistic reasons. At that point you have to look at its genre. Can a tps still be good at 30? Imo, yeah. There are genres that benefit from 60 and should always shoot for 60. FPS', Hack n slashes, fighters, and racers are the genres that come to mind. In the end, as much as either side tries to move the goal posts, The Orders specs were chosen, not settled at. Move along trolls.
You've completely missed the point...its not that games NEED to be 60fps...but when one console is ABLE to run a game at 60fps and the other is not able to run the SAME GAME at 60fps that shows hardware strength differences...hence the comparisons... As for Killzone...it runs at an unlocked frame rate...its almost ALWAYS higher than 30fps...but they just released a patch allowing you to lock the single player portion at 30fps... The devs wanted to crank up the graphics on single player so they didn't aim for 60fps like multiplayer But you can't make comparisons on exclusive games because they are coded specifically for that hardware... That being said...if The Order looks as good as the devs seem to be hinting it will...and it runs at a solid 30fps on the PS4...there is no way it would be 30fps on the other console...
Lol at insiders that are worried about Sony's reputation. I wonder if there is still someone that consider them reliable.
They stopped being relevant to me awhile back. I love that mighty 'ass storm' that never materialized at launch. Not even a wet fart. Fucking FUD... nothing more. I wish more people would move beyond this covert console warrior bullshit and concentrate more on, you know, the games and features.
We haven't even seen what type of particle effects and what other graphical effects are going on and people are jumping all over 30fps. These number crunchers need to put down their calculators and see the big picture.
Total BS. Since when does a 'med student' all of the sudden become an insider? And he posts on some 'has-been' message board called neogaf? Let me register so I can become an insider. Amazing the crap believe. The Xbox One is more than capable of doing 60fps, this was the choice of the developers not to do this in the early stages. Many games for the X1 will come out that can do 60fps/1080p, so lets put this crap bs from Thuway behind. Im sick to my stomach
Well except the only game that proves the X1 can do 1080p and 60fps is a vastly downgraded Forza 5 and NBA 2k14. Hardly an achievement. All other X1 exclusives like rise and DR3 dip well below 30fps and aren't even 1080p. All 3rd party games that are 1080p are 30fps on X1 dipping below 30fps while they are 60fps on the PS4. The difference is pretty big.
Haha..please come on over to GAF, I implore you...see how long you last
Well how come it cannot run a last gen game at 60 fps when the ps4 does? Awkward I know!
If the game really does appear and run as pretty as they claim, I'll be perfectly fine with 30 frames. Just lock that shit at 30.
Fps hasnt effected games before I played god of war 3 uncharted 3 and others and had the time of my life, the only ppl who care are pc gameers cause they are more interested at staring at the screen then enjoying games
dude take your little 2 bubs and go home please. you have no idea what you are talking about. this game is designed for 30fps. we will complain if it doesnt hold a steady 30fps. no one ever said 60fps is mandatory unless the same game is doing it on a competing system. thats the difference.
What's this whole thing with the bubbles? You can lose your bubbles by being down voted by anyone. I noticed that if you say something bad about Microsoft or its consoles people tend to have lots of them. Perhaps this is similar to the man with an expensive car compensating for something else that he's lacking. You tell me. I personally don't have that problem. I watched my bubbles be subtracted the other day just for making a comment about why Sony fanboys stay in the Xbox zone. It was flagged as off topic and the next thing I know I'm down a few. Phew, it's a good thing they can't subtract other things from me in the real world. You dig?
I used to think that we just lose bubbles because of down votes but recently noticed that just posting kills bubbles; at least in my case. I can make a post careful not to offend anyone and still lose a bubble. Basically, I can comment 2 times then my bubbles are all gone. It's a messed up system.
Film grain and black bars - two of my most hated 'cinematic' effects :( The film grain was just a technical limitation of the non-digital storage media. Thanks god, modern movies don't have film grain, are they considered less 'cinematic' because of it? And the black bars are just plain annoying. Almost everyone has a 16:9 TV this days, why should you artificially narrow your field of view and waste 20-30% of your screen pixels on black bars? I think 'cinematic effects' should make you feel like you're in a cinema, rather than watching a cinema. Narrow and noisy picture doesn't contribute to it. I'm a big Playstation fan, maybe even a fanboy, and I'm very excited for this game, but this is my honest opinion on those effects.
Me too I love all my Playstations but I think with this game they have focused on pushing the eye candy and the black bars and 30fps are signs of their limitations. Them saying otherwise is BS I think, every dev would like their games to run at a silky smooth 60fps at 1080p and have top in it's class visuals, but they know they have to compromise. I really hope Naughty dog choose 60fps as their standard rather than just trying to push maximum pretties.
What fps does uncharted run at cause I am fine with those games fps
Lmao Yes film grain still exists, for movies still using film (a lot) and wider aspect ratios are here to stay...and thank god...your FoV is actually WIDER not narrower...but I wouldn't expect you to comprehend that...
I know film is still being used as I have a camera that uses it, but the data is written digitally, unlike on VCRs. And the question of whether the FoV is narrower or wider is a chicken-and-egg type of question. You make the FoV wider by expending the frame horizontally and make it narrower vertically, but then you can add more data to the black bars by expending it vertically again. I'm considering it this way: I have a 16:9 screen, so any frame that is not using all of the screen space is narrower than a standard 1920x1080 frame. If I had an ultra-wide screen (don't remember the aspect ratio) and every game had vertical black bars, I would say that the FoV is wider. But since 90% of the people today have 16:9 screen, the space wasted on black bars make the FoV narrower rather than wider.
What a douche. "but I wouldn't expect you to comprehend that..." Maybe a little aggressive, broseph? I'm pretty sure he'd be able to comprehend it, but most likely you thought this was some sort of advanced science, since it probably took YOU years to comprehend it. But I wouldn't expect you to comprehend that.......................... ........ Let me throw some more ellipses in there to make this more dramatic...................... .................... ... ........ ..... ... Yeah, bro! Now get back to watching some WCF wrestling matches so you can figure out how to internet bully some more people, sucka! ....