Optimisation will get more out of the Xbox One in the coming years according to Turn 10
What?? This article confuses me. If they are saying that the reason they could have gotten 1080p 60fps on forza is because they had a lot more time than other developers how is it they had to do such a massive graphical downgrade of the game? Seeing that they had all that time I would think they could have kept the graphical quality of the E3 build and still get 1080p 60fps.
The fact that they're already talking about 'tricking' the hardware this early in the generation should be a concern.
The title says it all "tricking the xbox one". Shame a developer spends so much time finding ways to fake 1080p and 60fps and not on making more out of the game. I guess the argument the game play is all that matters goes out the window. Game play will likely suffer because so much time is spent working around XB1 limitations.
Last time I checked, learning how to optimize the system early is a great idea. Why wouldn't a company try to optimize hardware early? Is there some rule that states that this is a bad idea? If Bungie had learned to optimize the 360 early than halo 3 would've looked like halo 4 in terms of graphical fidelity, and the original uncharted would've had the graphical fidelity of the last of us. But nope, forget those possibilities, let's just wing it with the hardware instead of properly learning how to use it. Rite gais?
Tricky is MS work moto
^ This @GribbleGrunger:
@CrossingEden I'm sorry, but when I hear someone use the word "tricking" in terms of programming, my mind really doesn't think "optimization".
The fact is Albert Penello stated working on tech deep dives two months prior to release....that alone set alarm bells ringing in my head. "No add'l dGPU. Working on more tech deep-dives. XBO is plenty capable now and in the future. Perf. differences are greatly overstated." https://twitter.com/albertp... If the Xbone were plenty capable then why were tech deep dives even considered so early in it's production?
@Gribble Not really. Both consoles can easily be maxed out already. If you're not tricking the hardware from day one, you're not doing your job as a console game developer.
Its tricky to make a game, to make a game, an Xbone game, Its tricky! tricky, tricky, tricky, tricky ...sorry, song still stuck in my head from SSX whenever things get tricky.
@Pandamobile I'm gonna take a shot in the dark here and say you're a pc gamer. "Both consoles can easily be maxed out already." This ridiculous comment always seems to come form pc gamers who have no understanding of consoles. As stated by many many many developers, it is going to take a while before they can max out the system because of this thing called "optimization". not because these consoles share a similar architecture to a pc means they are pc's. They are designed differently and they are capable of optimizations you would not do on a pc. Developers already know pc hardware but when ever new consoles come out they have to learn the hardware and get familiar with it. Yes it may be similar to a pc but there is that additional learning curve that better designed games as time goes on. But i'm sure your degree in computer science and programming is more than enough to give you the authority to call all these programmers liars and show why you are right and they are wrong.
I remember pc gamers loving the xbox brand simply because it was Microsoft making the console. They originally thought the console would connect to ths same servers to play against each other. They had grown tired of all the better players whooping their buts so they embraced the xbox for this belief. Later it bit them in the face when they found out the console could only connect to other consoles and not to pc servers. This is why pc gamers hate console gamers and call us "noobs" because of auto aim being instilled in every game. Eventually they cave in and buy a console because owning one gaming machine is more affordable than having two. Especially when their friends are all on the PS4.
@Giul_Xainx Well all I would have to say to those PC gamers is that if they have yet to play Starcraft 2 or some actual PC game that requires some form of skill, well shut up and play your "not-aim-asissted" BattleButt while I enjoy the benefits of being both a console noobie and a pc player. *mini-rant over*
@gribblegru... Do you intend getting an xbox one? If not,then this shouldnt be a concern to you. I dont get it .if its not an issue to xbx fans why does it bother you so much? Ontopic: I fully agree with turn 10. I remember when tony hawk launched on xbx 360, it looked like crap but skate came out a year later looking really good,then the jump from pdz to gears of war was an entirely different story ...i expect similar things this gen. Forza horizon 2 and ryse 2 will look and perform much better than forza5 and ryse.
@Codey a tech deepdive isn't what you seem to think it is. Panello was just talking about having an in-depth discussion on the workings of the console. That deepdive was hosted by Eurogamer, I'm sure it's still available to read if you want to. @everyone else twisting this to be a negative statement on the power of the console... you must be a joy to talk to in real life. :| He's just saying games will look better over time as they find new tricks to get more out of the console. It's clearly intended as a positive, he's head of a first party studio after all.
Tricking the hardware and tricking the consumers. But to be fair the cars do look good in that game. It's the environments that is lacking and the lack of anti-aliasing is an eye sore.
@Volkama, I wasn't under the impression in any way that Microsoft were going to send a team of micro midgets spelunking in an xboxone. "What is a Deep Dive? A Deep Dive is a one-day informal problem solving session aimed at developing a workable solution for a specific problem by a group of interdisciplinary students. The Deep Dive begins with the definition of the problem, brainstorming for possible solutions, and assignment of student groups for the development of modules for the selected solution. Periodic progress meetings allow the group to share current advances or communicate current roadblocks. The Deep Dive concludes with the integration of the group's modules into a final solution. The Deep Dive process is unique from other problem solving approaches as participants are immersed into an intense, cross-functional, and modular problem solving experience. More importantly, each participant takes on a specific task in the development of the solution, which ensures that all participants are involved in the problem solving process." http://www.imas.ise.vt.edu/... It's fancy three word jargon..... to problem solve
So much for 10 years in the making BS it's clear that Forza dev got short end of the stick on the hardware side. GT is going to shit all over their games at least in graphics department for this whole generation.
Wish GT was already out in meantime we should al enjoy forza, need for speed and other upcoming racing games. When GT releases I am pretty sure it will look better than the xb1 launch title Forza, also more cars.
Sure a lot of Sony fanboys here this morning, good to see you guys still have nothing to play. On Topic: This is the key for all systems and has been since the inception of gaming consoles. How much tricking do you think went making TLoU? Or a game like Halo 4? GTA? The point is that's what these developers do! No two systems are the same. These new consoles are BASED on x86 architecture, and as such they have their own nuance. If you think for one second their aren't developers out there right now trying to "trick" the PS4 your insane.
What are you doing here seeing that you have soooo many games to play??? Those fps must be dipping so low that your games are unplayable huh?? O.T. I wonder why do they need to "trick" the hardware if they have the power of the cloud? They should just be able to tap into the power of the cloud and use that power that is equal to 10 xboxes that they spoke about. why is tricking the hardware even being mentioned when you have a cloud service that would graphically enhance your games?
@johndoe How's your streaming gaming service? Wait what do you mean its not out, Sony talked about it! If they talk about something it better be available now or we're going to bash it!!! Oh wait never mind that's just ponies. Did you read the article? Tricking = optimization Skew it however you want to make you feel better. But all developers optimize. Its how this works. You know when a game gets delayed its because of optimization of the engine, hardware, you name it. And in regards to framerate. I played Dead rising 3 co-op for 2 hours last night with a buddy, and that game runs like crap. That game is so fun, I would play it on the N64 if it was that fun. hope all those extra frames keep you as entertained as me!
Lol whats with this fanboy logic? I have 15 games on PS4 in the first 2 months of the consoles launch.....where is this "no games" nonsense coming from? It must be fun to live in a bubble where facts can't get in. OT: Tricking =\= Optimization Those words are hardly synonymous They could've said optimization like every dev usually does.
@pope It's going just as good as your cloud service that all the xbox devs are using to enhance their graphics. Oh wait, that's right, NO xbox dev is using that pr talk tech because it won't work. " But all developers optimize. Its how this works. You know when a game gets delayed its because of optimization of the engine, hardware, you name it." That's great, now back to my original question, why was forza downgraded to such a ridiculous level from the E3 demo, If they had so much time to work on it? And why did they not delay the game like what happened with driveclub in order to give people a better experience and also to deliver what they promised on? Is it that they were just focusing on bragging rights so that they could say " look, we have more launch games than you sony" or is it that no amount of optimization or "tricking" could have made that game look like the E3 demo which was running on a powerful gaming pc? Maybe your console manufacturer was more focused on bragging rights than giving you the best quality looking game they could. Yeah.....good luck with that console.
TLoU released like 7 years into the generation.So optimizing is expected .The Xbone is 3 months old. BTW Sony 'fanboys' have way more games to choose from, did you fail math?
The Popes right. this article is about the xbx one. So why are you all on it?i look around and you guys aint even making reasonable comments just trolling around if your going to drop comments then be mature about it.
lol the irony is insane
I belive in Turn 10. Haters love to talk about track record. Look at Forza 2, then give a second look on Forza 4. Forza 5 is a LAUNCH game as Forza 2 in 360's early days. Looking forward for some comparissons soon. Driveclub vs Forza Horizon 2 this year and Forza 6 vs Gran Turismo 7 around 2016
Exactly. It's sad that they're saying they're tricking the console a mere 3 months into the generation. Because of forza, we know it's hard to run even a racing game in 1080p 60fps. They made massive downgrades in every other category to achieve that.
Lol. You guys are hilarious. What downgrade are you talking about? It isn't a downgrade from Forza 4...so what is it? You're talking about an E3 build that ALL DEVELOPERS CREATE SPECIFICALLY FOR E3, that takes them 3 months to make one specific section? Well right, it had better look better than the final build!, cause an entire dev team worked on it just for the show. Did you guys forget the great Killzone 2 E3 demo?, that looked better than great, and looked absolutely nothing like the final game? I remember! You guys should get Digital Foundry to run a comparison of Killzone 2 E3 vs Killzone 2 Final.
Are you seriously asking this question? Really? "Well right, it had better look better than the final build!, cause an entire dev team worked on it just for the show." Seriously? Crunching for a build doesn't make the hardware more capable... damn.... It was running on PC tech like a good deal of Microsoft's showings. And they were using that "E3 build" to sell their consoles (a Microsoft smoke-and-mirrors speciality), cause where was the REAL footage prior to release? *ahem* So not tricking just its console, but tricking its consumers as well.. --- "Did you guys forget the great Killzone 2 E3 demo?, that looked better than great, and looked absolutely nothing like the final game?" Was that just a Sony Too™ ? Sony didn't restrict their Killzone 2 marketing campaign in 2009 to the E3 teaser in 2005 (which was obviously CG, unless you're a kid, or a fool).
No....it looked a lot better at e3 because it was running off a pc with much better specs than the x1, hence it had to be downgraded to run on x1...the equivalent of a pc running a game at low settings, compare to e3 pc running at ultra settings.
Yeah I don't want no tricks. I want that native non down graded stuff.
Now it's about tricks!? What happened to using using the hardware to its potential? Seems that Microsoft suits aren't the the only one's bad at PR statements.
Seems the hardware's potential may have been reached at launch.
Yeah you wish http://images.eurogamer.net... http://images.eurogamer.net... http://images.eurogamer.net...
What are you wishing for exactly?
Can someone please explain to me how you would ever need to trick hardware that's based on x86 architecture, which developers have been using for YEARS because it's based on PC architecture?
So was the original xbox. Did launch games look worse than later ones? Yes. Based on x86 doesn't mean anything, when there are many custom parts involved...
The Xbox One doesn't have as many "custom parts" as the Xbox 360 did. Both the Xbox One and PS4 are more like PCs than any other console before them so there should be no alien tech that needs coaxing to bring out some hidden power. This isn't Dragonball Z and the Xbox One isn't waiting for the Elder of the Nameks to bring out it's hidden power.
Why can't somebody interview them and ask them why they downgraded it. I would if I had the chance and get it in video :-)
But teh cloudz!
Can they trick a cheaper box?
Cool story bro! got to make those Xbox owners feel optimistic.
Trick the box? The heck does that mean.
Another way of saying "optimize" I suppose
The word "box" is used as code for the die hard MS Fanboys. I'm not talking about most of the ones on this site, just mainly guys like green[insert any spelling of powers], JokesOnYou , MisterX... You know, the ones who believe every lie that MS says, the guys who use percentages instead of hard numbers for their "facts", the guys who say that there's a conspiracy on n4g and Sony Fanboys have taken over. Yeah, those are the guys that Turn 10 is referring to when they say boxes. And now they're trying to find new ways to trick those boxes.
I see what you did there.
I thought he meant match the feature set of its direct competitor... night, rain or other things that relate to racing sims. There was blatantly a downgrade from the jimmy fallon show version... surprised many of the more reputable gaming sites failed to mention this ESPECIALLY those who played and wrote about the preview copies they said they played. To be fair, im used to the gaming media being far from honest. There's always an angle. From trips to japan to kojima studios to halo duffle bags and 750 thou startup funding to polygon I trust the gaming media less than I trust some of the fanboys.
Illuuu~~~~usions, Turn 10. Tricks are something that ****** do for cash. (bubs for reference)
Anyone above me own an Xbox One? Just curious.
I don't, and it's pretty obvious that I don't based on my comment history. I love gaming though and the reason I go to MS article comment sections is because I (unlike a lot of people) read the articles first and then see what people think. If I comment on something it's usually really sarcastic or I'm just poking fun at blind loyalty. I think you should be less concerned with who owns an XB1 and more concerned with MS repeating their track record of big start/ aweful finish with their past 2 consoles. I also agreed with you. There are usually comments from Sony fans first in any article on this site. That's usually what happens when a website has a majority. The majority will usually react first.
"MS repeating their track record of big start/ aweful finish with their past 2 consoles." How after only 2 months out how can ANYONE say that. No one has any idea what the next 5-6 years will hold. Hell people cant tell if rumors about something coming in March are true!
@ pope You're exactly the type of person my first comment higher up on the page refers to. But to answer your question: because they're doing exactly what they've always done. That's how. MS is the only one of the big 3 that doesn't put out a large stream of first party exclusives throughout the entire console life span. And yeah, there are a few new IP's coming out, but that's the same as other consoles so far, it's just MS knows that Halo is their bread and butter (along with timed DLC lol) so don't expect a lot of exclusives or anything really on years where a new Halo is coming out. History is bound to repeat itself when a company has cocky management.
I do if you have KI friend me ExiledSamuraiIG
IDIOTS.. Read the full article..They are talking about optimization...How to bring out the best out of the machine...Games will look better and run better as devs get more comfortable with hardware.. Dual shockers and their BS flamebait headline :| Dual shockers is a pro-PS site..They always use flamebait headline for their article to attract gamers....
I don't blame Dual Shockers. People use the word "trick" as a street slang reference in upgrading one way or another. Just people on the site intentionally warping whats being said.
Dualshockers is a PS flamebait site. N4G isn't far behind to b honest
Seriously. U cant expect these ponys to actually read an article? All they saw was the title and then began the big Sony reach around.
I'm an xbox fan and I like dual shockers... I think they are pretty well grounded... I remember when the debunked the Ryse 'downgrade' hooplah, and everyone was calling them ms apologists.... I just think they keep it real, I don't necessarily think it's their fault that N4g-ers are so rabid. I read the headline and knew instantly it was about optimization.
Compare the visuals of launch 360 games with 2013 Xbox 360 games and you will get your answer..
He should have used another word besides tricking.
I agree, it was a poor choice of words.These devs need to wake up and realize that everything they say will be dissected.
You guys are ridicules. You know dang on well, what he means by "trick," and don't act like it's wrong to think this way this early in a console generation, or assume something has reached its potential right out the gate. I mean, how is this even a bad thing? How can something reach it's potential if it's not fully understood on how to reach it?, and there is little experience working with it? I guess programers are supposed to just wait till the last minute, except that the machine is weaker/powerful (on paper) they don't need to do anything to get the best out.
I dunno about the rest of the guys, but I'm certainly not a ridicule.
got to love my smart phone, for changing the word,lol
I anticipate the Xbox Two in four years. MS backed themselves in a corner with their contract with Nvidia on the original xbox to where they couldn't get the cost of the GPU down during the console cycle, so they moved on from the original xbox earlier then they wanted to (four years). This time MS gimped the X1 GPU by chasing dreams of the living room. So they may bow out of this gen early and move to the next console or whatever they plan on doing. Just my guess. MS is only batting 1 for 3 in terms of GPUs in their consoles. 360 had a better GPU than PS3.
I don't think this is going to be the case for MS, Looking at the history of what MS has done it's always early doom and gloom, but MS does something that keeps them relevant. How many times have we seen people predict the death of the Xbox? The most powerful does not win the race, and we know that. All three consoles are chasing the living room, some are using a more innovative approach to it, others are playing it safe. Some are sticking to a particular fan bases, others are using a more universal approach. To make matters even worst, it hasn't even been 120 days into this new console Gen, and people are declaring winners and losers, showing sales figures. This reminds me of when the PSP and DS were first introduced to the world. Sony was on a roll, and look where we are now The DS, a weaker handheld stomped it… The GPU on the 360 was better, but PS Did a lot of damage.