It's been a long time in the making, but it's finally here. The first iteration of Mantle is now available to the general public and the promise of console-style GPU optimizations for PC is now upon us.
I've been saying for years that windows sucks for gaming, this confirms it. Microsoft aren't the software geniuses they proclaim to be, that's why they have to buy out or destroy the competition, its easy to be the winner of a one-man race.
be careful or you will get labeled as a sony fanboy.
I dont recall sony developing an OS for PC computers.
Why when it's all about Windows and not XboxOne? Had to check if the HD 7000 series cards were GCN and it appears they are, thinking about getting a 2nd 7870 as cheap upgrade.
Being as though the Xbox One has an AMD GPU, it would seem that developers may be able to extract similar performance increases with Mantle over Direct X. A 20% increase is a serious boost for free. And because both the PS4 and Xbox One have AMD chips, you could use a similar API (which is freely licensed BTW).
mantle is hardly an 'OS' for gaming computers...its just a software suite that game developers can use for a specific line of hardware...Directx is a software suite to be used across ALL PC hardware (its the main consideration by hardware manufacturers when building parts for windows based computers)... also, the roll out for mantle is all over the place right now...So far, its an absolutely massive help to mid to low level cpus...however, gains are fairly uneventful if using a very high end cpu and high end gpu... lastly, mantle does not yet take full advantage of anything but hawaii based gpus...the Tahiti GCN products have not yet received any optimization for BF4 specifically...so you get better performance than DX 11, but not nearly as much as you will after another beta driver releases...at least, thats what we're being told...
PlayStations have low level APIs like Mantel for years - I'd rather say this was the inspiration behind Mantel in the first place (GCN, GNM and GXM for PS3/4 and Vita). There is no benefit of using Mantel on PS4 other than a unified API. Xbox will always be DirectX. It is first party (same as Sony's API) and it is unlikely anything else will ever be available. DX is a bigger API, on the Xboxes the overhead is reduced because the driver model is simplified (directly on the metal because it doesn't need to support 5000 different cards and chips). But then, Mantel could also be adapted by other chip manufacturers. It is made by AMD but not exclusive to their chips. Of course, AMD won't write drivers for NVidia and since it's the competition, NVidia - like always - refuses to support tech done by someone else. Anyway, Mantel could be great for PCs - and I would hope this is the chance for Linux devs to get their head out their a... and finally support a low level high performance graphics API in the kernel level - Mantel would sure rock on an open platform - and allow it to become the gaming OS. Valve might have an interest here.
Maybe you should make some software mr.genius. What's that? you don't even know how to code basic programs? you don't even know hot to do "hello world" you say? Then shut up.
@Milruka Is that aimed at me? You weren't very specific, I know a little programming, admittedly I haven't coded a game from scratch since the 1980's, but even so your argument is that of a moron. If you bought a car that was a piece of crap you have every right to complain. If the company that made that crappy car bought out every other car manufacturer in the world so all you could buy was that one crappy car, you'd likely complain more. @below, By your simpleton logic you would not have the right to complain as you've never built a car. Also you can't complain about my comment as you didn't make it. If ignorance is bliss, you must be one super-happy individual. @comments below Yes you're right of course, it's Direct X in this instance, but it shows how shoddy Microsoft's coding is, Windows is exactly the same. Microsoft are the biggest software company in the world and yet they still suck at software. The sooner Windows looses its monopoly on the PC OS the better.
^^^^Third paragraph is not aimed @below Typing on phone. Sorry
But... this is running on Windows, all it confirms is that it's better than Direct X at some things.
These benchmarks are running on Windows, perhaps you meant to say, high level APIs.
Low level API's.
You realise Mantle is running on Windows? If anything this highlights a strength of the platform. It's open for talented people to run what they want to run.
Of course I realise that (if you bothered to read I acknowledged it hours before your comment).
Ah yes I see several other people already pointed out that glaring flaw in your initial comment. If Windows is genuinely a terrible OS for gaming then SteamOS will 'prove it'. Mantle only serves to make Windows a stronger platform.
@Angeljuice Not sure how this confirms Windows is bad. DirectX isn't the only API out there. This only confirms that AMD knows the technology they developed better than anyone else.
I think the ps4 ver. looks 19% better, as of 2/1/14,,. RubberBanding on 'some' servers is still an issue , unfortunately.. Still plays and looks a whole lot better, when on a good server, something has 'changed' as of the 1st of this month -Thanks Dice.
You do realize that this is an article about the pc version right? Which hands down looks the best. Seriously, where can I get rose colored glasses that all fanboys seem to have?
welcome to N4G.
Lol.. That comment says it all about the N4G fanboys.
I tried running BF4 on my spare parts PC a couple of days ago. I was actually a bit sad to see how much better BF4 looks on my old 6950 in direct comparison to the XBox One version. My 2 year old card can handle the High preset at 1080p60 with proper AA. The difference is not subtle.
its actually between 8% and 60% increase. The rare few who have god like systems wont see a big performance increase. Unless that sytem has sli/crossfire then they will see 40%+!
No they unfortunately won't get a 40% increase under crossfire - wishful thinking and we've already seen benchmarks under those conditions. Big increases like that will mainly be from Intergrated graphics systems since Mantle free's up CPU cycles. CPU bound systems stand to benefit the most.
When you crossfire 2 powerful cards, even with a really good CPU you are probably CPU limited. So yes battlefield should see a large increase with users who crossfire high end cards. The ones who crossfire low to mid range cards may not see as much of a gain because they are not as CPU limited.
ya not sure where i got 40%. It looks like 22% and improved frame latency. (crossfire) http://www.extremetech.com/...
Too bad all their GPUs worth getting are all overpriced still. AT the moment they have nothing really appealing. The R9 270 and below are subpar and are also usually more expensive compared to HD 7000 counterparts. The R9 270X is about $230, which is not worth it when the GTX 760 is only $20 more. The R9 280X is $100 more than the GTX 770 which is not worth it. The R9 290 is also $100 more than MSRP but still competes against the $500 GTX 780. As for the R9 290X it goes for around $600-700, and it is not that appealing when the GTX 780ti is $650. These miners need to go away, because IMO the competition hardly exists at the moment
I always thought AMD had the best value cards on a bang to buck ratio?
Not when miners have the GPUs in such high demand, and every card that is equivalent to the HD 7950 or higher is $100+ more than what they are supposed to be.
I don't know much about bitcoin mining, but AMD is apparently far and away the best at said task. Something like 5 times the output, from what I gather. This leads to a run on AMD cards and they are all selling well over MSRP.
I see, that did not enter my head at all, bloody farmers.
looks like mantle is the future of PC gaming.
SteamOS + Mantle = great things. By the time the Steam Machines are ready to ship I hope AMD has a good, working version of Mantle. Getting equivalent performance to home consoles will really help the PC gaming landscape.
Windows+ Mantle= even better things Not only do you get the performance mantle offers you dont miss out on the whole Steam catalog of games
Yeah backwards compatibility is one of the best things about the PC.
I agree. Mantle is a great move and finally PC's will get similar/same optimizations to consoles. I just hope nVidia and AMD and Devs can all play nice and support it. This is a big win for PC gamers.. Especially if you have AMD hardware right now.
Can't really test Battlefield 4 yet since the 14.1 driver doesn't have an optimized version of Mantle for my 7950s, apparently that's coming in the future. I did see huge improvements when running the Star Swarm stress test where I got an average of 18.97 FPS using DirectX vs 45.71 FPS using Mantle. Exciting times a head for sure.
wow this will really help those who cant afford high end cards, such great performance boost!
Replace high end cards with high end CPUs and you'd be correct. Mantle affects the work the CPU does. Therefore people who could barely play BF4 with an i3 or FX4xxx/APU can now have a smoother experience.
oops, thanks for the correction
No worries! I understand where the confusion comes from since Mantle software is for the GPU and not the CPU. There does appear to be a slight performance boost for GPUs, but if you look at other benchmarks, the boost in framerate for low-end CPUs is substantial.
But its for AMD cards YUCK.
they aren't that bad
Why do people feel this way about AMD? I like supporting AMD because they do not try to corner the market with proprietary technology like Nvidia does with things like physX. PhysX didnt do anything special that other physics engines couldnt do, it just made it so that the game physics just worked on nvidia cards. When AMD releases something they usually make it open source and that is why i like them as a company. Hell, even Mantle can be used by Nvidia if they ever decided to use it.
Their drivers are absolute Shty. Radeon is famous for shotty cards since they let anyone us their reference boards.
Well i think both companies have crappy drivers every once and a while. AMD has had really good drivers the last few years. I havent had any driver problems at all with my 5850 or my 7970. (unless you count the new mantle driver which is still in beta). I think people have this perspective because AMD's drivers from many years ago were not as stable as nvidia, but these days id say they are pretty comparable.
When I built this current computer two years ago I had issues with the AMD drivers, I used to like radeon.
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